Want to never be wrong - don't answer the question.
The results from last night’s Presidential Debate between Sarah Palin and Joe Biden are in.…
Want to never be wrong - don't answer the question.
The results from last night’s Presidential Debate between Sarah Palin and Joe Biden are in.…
Article comments
26 - Silas Kain
If all of us liberals have Obama's nutsack in our mouths - what a nice image,..
There's no room for the liberals to share in that nutsack since Olbermann and Matthews have crowded you all out with Maddow so far up Michelle's butt that it's a wonder she can breathe. MSNBC is now the equivalent of FOX only at the opposite side of the spectrum.
... btw, all you Palin lovers would obviously eat a mile of her shit just to kiss her ass. You all sit watching her with a lump in your drawers imagining your face nuzzling those once perky breasts.
Doggone it, that's an image I can stomach far more than being in the same room with Joe Biden. Why, I might even go straight for Sarah Palin! On second thought, probably not.
27 - Cindy D
Sarah Shapeshifter Palin, rips off her wholesome "soccer-mom" face to reveal what she's really made of.
Wearing her, "Obama: A Terrorist's Best Friend T-Shirt" at least she now looks more like the base, clueless, intellectually bankrupt reptile that she is.
28 - Cindy D
"There's a place in Hell reserved for women who don't support other women," the Alaska Governor said, claiming she was quoting former Clinton Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.
No editorial needed.
29 - zingzing
clavos (and franco, although i don't know you as well)... you are (usually) pretty level-headed, but that comment about palin growing into the presidency is just laughable.
#1, she shouldn't be anywhere near this election.
#2, she hasn't done well.
#3, the office of the presidency is no place to do as much "growing" as palin needs to do.
come on, she looked like an idiot with that "team of mavericks" bullshit. and she couldn't stay on topic and rambled constantly. i'm sure some of that was strategy, but my god...
TEAM
of
MAVERICKS?
is that even rhetorically possible? what are they gonna do?
mccain: "stay the course in iraq!"
palin: "noo! we goo to iran! alaska!"
mccain: "wait, is that what i meant? iraq... iran... no, i was right, iran! ...iraq!"
palin: "oh for gad's saake, jooohn! alaska!"
mccain: "i say what goes!"
palin: "not in this alaskan administraation!"
mccain: "who's administration is this?"
palin: "yoours? (alaska)"
mccain: "oh, no you don't! it's mine!"
palin: "that's whaat i said! alaska yoours!"
mccain: "don't you play none of your "alaska yoour" shit with me! who is this "alaska yoour?""
palin: "oooh, for gad's saake. ALASKA!"
mccain: "this is my administration, and if you're going to be a part of it, you had better buckle up, cause i'm driving this fuckin' thing... you had bet--t-t-t... something doesn't feel--righ-t-t-t. is it cold in here?"
palin: "ooh, gad. oh, gad. alaska! maverick alaska! alaska! oh, gad. alaska! mavericks! team! alaska!"
30 - El Bicho
zing, you left off "energy-producing" each time you wrote Alaska. In another thread, Dan also thought Gwen Ifill needed to be replaced so take his pronouncements with a grain of salt.
31 - Zedd
I heard that the "Can I call you Joe" comment was designed so she could say "there you go Joe", later.
I also heard that saying "you can call me Sara" was an attempt to make Biden seem condescending, which he didn't bite on. He kept referring to her as the governor.
32 - Franco
#29 " zingzing
Thank you for your comments. But with all due respect, Obama is the one who needs just as much growth or more then Palin and he IS running for President and she is not.
Yes both Palin and Obama are younger then McCain and Biden. But even Biden is on record as saying not long ago that Obama is not ready for the Presidency. Now that is fucking scary. So I guess Biden feels comfortable enough now that he will grow into it, with his help and a lot of others. Youthful energy running, and experience supporting. That is the Obama/Biden ticket.
McCain on the other hand has the full experience and he has shown himself to be positively bipartisan, something that our current congress has proven they can not be. Experience running, youthful energy supporting. That is that McCain/Palin ticket.
The chances of McCain living to 80 or 85 are pretty dame good. So that argument is not that strong. We can all play the “what if” game. If my aunt had balls she would be my uncle.
OK, let’s say McCain gets into the Whitehorse and dies within 18 months. You know, that old “one heart beat away” argument by all the “if” arguments out there.
Palin will already know all of the presidential administration, be sensitive to the calendar, the hot spots, and the existing standoffs at that moment. That administrative team and all those advisers support the president, just like they do in ever administration. Palin is sharp enough and dedicated enough to lead those in that administration to give their very best, and there is every indication that she could do just that.
So when I say Palin is the better of the three at doing that, I mean it.
Now as for your "stay the course in Iraq"
McCain and Palin want that war to end ASAP. Biden saying he and Obama will end that war is a cone job in making you think McCain and Palin don’t intend the same. Bullshit. If it was not for the surge we could not even begin to start to talk about how to end it. But now we can and can build our way out, not just leave on some publicly announced time table the terrorists can plan around.
Energy Independence.
I will just say this. We are going to need a lot of oil to develop and produce the alternative energies of tomorrow. I know it will take 7-10 years so see the old we set out to drill today, but over the next 7-10 years the chances of another world crisis threatening our import oil supply (money we spend overseas instead of paying ourselves) is really risky. Something a recovering economy would be set back sharply should such events occur.
I don’t this it a matter of if, I think of it as a matter of when, and 7-10 years is a big widow of negative opportunity for people to fuck with us if they want to. Lets get the taps in the ground ASAP and at the same time work hard on alternative energy.
33 - Cindy D
"...and there is every indication that she could do just that..."
What indication would that be?
34 - Cindy D
Franco,
Don't you even mind that McCain/Palin think you're stupid?
The McCain campaign is becoming a real embarrassment at the moment. Or haven't you read about the latest stunts?
Even Karl Rove has to shake his head in wonder over the stupidity. If you're going to run an underhanded, last ditch smear fest, why prepare your opponent in advance?
Don't you mind that your candidates are steering your attention away from any discussion of issues at all? I mean unless the issue is whether they are "mavericks" or "Joe Blows" or whatever the fuck they are.
35 - Cannonshop
#34 (because it's so ripe I can't resist...)
Does it bother you that Obama/Biden think You're stupid? That they know that, no matter what indefensible things they do, you'll vote for them and their friends, that your wallet will open for their fundraisers, that you'll stump for them in your blog, that you'll parrot their talking points and not examine their records with any sort of eye at all?
These are the people who will feed your false hope, and leave you nothing but change to pay your bills with.
36 - Franco
What indication would that be?
Cindy, if you don't already know, it is a long shot that anything anyone says about this will help you see the answer. I an not really sure you even want an answer. But here goes.
She is a governor Cindy, one of only 50. You can't get to that level of governent if you can't lead people and bring out the very bests in those around you and maintain there best all the way from city council, Mayor, and all the way to the goveners office.
Seeing that this fact dose not seem to impress you much, why don’t you try to just get elected to city council somewhere.
If you can do that Cindy, then show us you can work at it is such a way as to earn the majority of support, then harness that support to run for Mayor and win.
I would say however that you would be able to start answering your own question just by getting elected into city council, let alone making it all the way to govener.
As govener, if she was just another pretty face, she would never have been able to take on big oil and won the benifits she has for every citizen of Alaska. Benifits the oil companies were taking out of the state. No other govener before here could or would do it. She did, and she even throw some of her own party members in jail over it.
That and everything it took to get to govener, is pure "indecation" in my book.
37 - zingzing
franco, i don't think palin will ever be ready to president. she just doesn't have it in her. as for obama, well, who knows. i never said he was particularly my top choice. in fact, i don't know anyone who would be a good president. certainly not a senator. it's just luck, in the end, and one half is going to say he/she was a terrible president anyway.
as for mccain wanting to get out of iraq, i dunno about that. if he really wants to do that, i haven't heard him say that. he says that he wants to "win" before leaving. what does that even mean in this case? it's hard to say. i think obama's "draw down the troops so that they (iraq) know they'll have to eventually take over" thing is the best idea on the table.
all that said, i was just commenting on you and clavos saying she is/would be qualified for the position, which i think is just hilarious. she's a fuckin loon, and a liar.
38 - Clavos
she's a fuckin loon, and a liar.
Which, if true, makes here ideally suited to lead the americans...
39 - zingzing
as for palin's governorship being enough qualification for you, franco, why is obama's senatorship not enough? (i don't think either absolutely qualifies you to be president.)
40 - zingzing
clavos, shouldn't we expect better from our leaders? (tongue firmly in cheek.)
41 - Al Barger
Brother Laidman- As part of the loyal opposition, of course you're going to look for the most negative spin to put on things. Fair enough.
But you act like it's some kind of bad thing when a candidate exerts their will to answer questions the way they want in order to address the issues they think are important. Seems like the moderator gets to ask whatever question they want, and the candidates get to use their alloted time to say whatever they want. If the moderator or interviewer asks a dumb question, or isn't addressing the issues the candidate considers important, then why shouldn't they say whatever the hell they want?
For one thing, I think it was giving pretty good ground that Palin and the Republican party would agree to an overt leftwing Obama supporter from PBS as the moderator at all. That's cool. But if they're doing that, then they should have a second debate with Sean Hannity as moderator. He's no more biased than the PBS crowd.
Also, this sentence is highly suspect for truth value: The mortgage crisis appears to be a clear cut example of inadequate Government regulation More like, through overt and utterly financially disasterous federal regulation through the Community Redevelopment Act enforced under threat from Janet Reno in Bill Clinton's Justice Department, banks were pushed into making totally ill-advised loans. Then they were backed up in the foolishness by Freddie - utterly a creature of the federal government. This current crisis has only minimal to do with anything that might be described as an "unregulated free market."
42 - Brad Laidman
Also, this sentence is highly suspect for truth value: The mortgage crisis appears to be a clear cut example of inadequate Government regulation More like, through overt and utterly financially disasterous federal regulation through the Community Redevelopment Act enforced under threat from Janet Reno in Bill Clinton's Justice Department, banks were pushed into making totally ill-advised loans. Then they were backed up in the foolishness by Freddie - utterly a creature of the federal government. This current crisis has only minimal to do with anything that might be described as an "unregulated free market."
Then she should have said that - and I would have been impressed.
If you look at the transcript of the debate Biden questions her about regulation at least 8 times and Ifill asks her to comment on it - and she blatantly refuses to go there
43 - Al Barger
I'll give you that Miss Sarah was not very eloquent in some of her points. She and McCain should be hammering just such a point, cause they're getting hung over the economy when it was Democrats primarily who pushed the CRA and Fannie. Obama's goddam ACORN was right in the forefront of the mau-mauing with the CRA, and dirctly financially benefitting. Besides which, he's THE top recipient of Fannie money other than Democrat committee chairman Chris Dodd.
On some things, she's been very sharp and articulate, and on others she has fumbled some. But also, judging by the alternative candidate rather than perfection, she may fumble a bit in some parts of her speech, but she's not just constantly saying absolutely ridiculous nonsense, such as Biden's recent claim that during the 1929 stock market crash, FDR went on television to reassure the public - regardless of the fact that FDR wasn't president and we didn't have television.
Also, she's not going out and saying things that are just objectively, blatantly not true as both Obama and Biden do. For example, in the debate, Biden insists that Obama NEVER said that he'd have a personal meeting with Ahmadenijad without pre-conditions. That's just a goddam LIE. He said it in debate, on tape, and in so many words.
Seems like out and out lies would be a bigger knock than occassional inarticulateness.
44 - Lisa Solod Warren
Obama also said he would have meetings with lower diplomats first, over and over, as did Biden, which she and McCain keep choosing to ignore.
45 - Lisa Solod Warren
Clav, did you give up your citizenship?
46 - Zedd
Cindy,
I think the need for individuals to be right or save face is much stronger then we think.
This is insanity in it's most vivid form. The gaga attitude towards her is "nuttery", however she gives people a reason (however ill considered it may be) to still vote Republican. She says emotional things so they FEEL that there is a spirit that still remains. Off course Reagan got everyone started on this mad trip. After their first hit, they just had to keep coming back for more. The jolt is just not the same but they keep at it, looking for the next high and destroying the nation and perhaps the world along the way. Perhaps we need an idiot (or kook) intervention.
47 - Zedd
Al,
God help you. You seem to major in the miners. Whether someone made a mistake remembering what President was in office a hundred years ago or not on, one day, in one conversation, is not an issue to choose a leader over. It just isn't. I reeeeeeally isn't. Have you ever said something then walked away and thought "oh my goodness, did I just say that?" and didn't have an opportunity to correct your gaff? It happens every day all day. It's one of those uniting traits that humans, especially adults, chuckle about, because they recognize them so well. It is not a matter of importance. FOCUS.
On Ahmadenijad (I get the sense that some people (((sara)))) are simply proud of themselves for being able to remember his name, cause they keep saying it). Goodness gracious. Get over the boogieman of the week syndrome. These bad guys are created to make you and other who are simple minded rally. The cold war era got a lot of mileage for politicians ESPECIALLY Republicans. They know how you are ready and willing to hate. They have trained you to by tiny minded so they perpetually come up with a bad guy for you to hate and fear (muwahahahaah). Get off the train man. Pensez Monsieur!
48 - Dr Dreadful
Lisa, Clavos is only loosely a Yank. He dwelleth in Miami, one of the largest cities in Latin America.
49 - Clavos
Zedd's trying to practice pop psychology without a license again...
50 - Dr Dreadful
Clav, if you look past Zedd's fantasies of sitting next to a couch wearing a beard, a tweed suit and an Austrian accent (a curiously compelling mental picture, I must admit), she does have some pertinent points.
For example, Ahmadinejad does not possess the executive power that an American president does. He is largely a figurehead, especially when it comes to dealings with foreigners. He's also pissed off a lot of people in his own country, having failed to deliver on an array of populist campaign promises, and may well be out on his ear at the next election.
51 - Clavos
Point taken, Doc, but not really part of what lead to my observation about Zedd's alter ego.
52 - Clavos
No, Lisa, still have both, but the American one is often subsumed.
53 - Dr Dreadful
Indeed, Clav, on further reflection Zedd seems to be to be more of a Jungian than a Freudian...
;-)
54 - Cindy D
RE #28
Palin's misquote that suggested women can go to hell if they don't support her.
Madeleine Albright strikes back and says, "The truth is, if you care about the status of women in our society and in our troubled economy, the best choice by far is Obama-Biden."
55 - Dan(Miller)
I am going off BC for a while. The ad hominem attacks, and the distortions by the various commentators are getting to be a bit too much. I will not engage in that sort of stuff, and am embarrassed by those who do. I shall "lurk," and if it seems that there is a comment which is rational and worthy of comment, I shall do so. Otherwise, I'm gone.
Let me, as a finale, provide a link about one of Governor Palins' remarks:
Good bye for a while.
Dan(Miller)
56 - Franco
#39 " zingzing
as for palin's governorship being enough qualification for you, franco, why is obama's senatorship not enough? (i don't think either absolutely qualifies you to be president.
Because Obama is runing for President, and Palin is not.
57 - troll
Dan -
...I would have thee gone"
And yet no farther than a wan-ton's bird,
That lets it hop a little from his hand,
Like a poor prisoner in his twisted gyves,
And with a silken thread plucks it back again,
So loving-jealous of his liberty...
...Good night, good night! Parting is such sweet sorrow,
That I shall say good night till it be morrow.
58 - Dan(Miller)
Thanks, Troll.
I shall be back, and may write an article or two. But the comments are getting to me.
Dan(Miller)
59 - Christopher Rose
Dan(Miller): I've just re-read all the comments above and not found anything worth getting so upset about.
As the Comments Editor for Blogcritics, I'm always concerned to try and make sure all perspectives are embraced here.
If that has caused me to not act when I should have, please contact me directly with comment numbers and article URL and I shall happily reconsider. I might not do anything different but I will definitely reconsider.
60 - Cindy D
I guess you didn't catch her live Dan. Her point was unmistakable.
61 - zingzing
oh, for fuck's sake, franco.
"Because Obama is runing for President, and Palin is not."
THAT'S WHAT WE WERE DISCUSSING!
you use her rise to the governorship as proof of her political savvy and eventual ability to lead, and you go on to say that "Palin is sharp enough and dedicated enough to lead those in that [her] administration to give their very best, and there is every indication that she could do just that."
you may say that "palin isn't running for the presidency," and that's true. but, the vice presidency is--or should be--just a fail safe in case the president can't go to a funeral or, dear lord, croaks because he's an old fart. now, i'm not going around saying that obama is the most qualified guy, or that i would want biden as my president (i really don't know enough about biden)...
but! that's not what we were talking about. you know, and i know you know, that we were talking about palin's fitness to be president. so don't pull that nonsense.
if palin's two years as governor of one of the least thought-about states in the nation, she's got at least as much of lack of leadership experience as obama does. in fact, she's so obviously out of touch with the majority of the nation, other than her folksy backwater sucking sound of a voice, that she still thinks "there ya go, joe" is funny.
my god, doesn't she (really, in your heart of hearts,) just make you want to fucking sock her in the mouth? or pat her on the head and tuck her in... or something. she's an embarrassment. and she'll get mauled in washington.
62 - Baronius
Dan - Blogcritics is the worst site on the internet, except for all the others.
63 - bliffle
franco made this peculiarly obtuse statement:
Energy Independence.
I will just say this. We are going to need a lot of oil to develop and produce the alternative energies of tomorrow. I know it will take 7-10 years so see the old we set out to drill today, but over the next 7-10 years the chances of another world crisis threatening our import oil supply (money we spend overseas instead of paying ourselves) is really risky. Something a recovering economy would be set back sharply should such events occur.
I don't this it a matter of if, I think of it as a matter of when, and 7-10 years is a big widow of negative opportunity for people to fuck with us if they want to. Lets get the taps in the ground ASAP and at the same time work hard on alternative energy.
What you mean "we", fright man?
"we" don't drill any oil, because "we" don't own oil drilling rigs. they are owned by international consortiums which are mostly foreign owned. Thus, they will drill when they damn well please. And they will sell to whomever they please. At current world market conditions that means 70% of the oil pumped from USA oil tracts will go to foreign countries. But, probably, in the 10-20 years it will take to get that oil to market the balance will have shifted even more to developing nations like China and 80-90% will be exported.
Jeez, we'll only probably get 10-20% of the US oil pumped from US oil tracts. Anyway, it's only a drop in the bucket.
That seems like Bad Business, to me. And it seems like particularly stupid national strategy.
And why are we going to "need a lot of oil to develop and produce the alternative energies of tomorrow. "? We already have the alternate energies in the form of solar, geothermal and wind, in actual working plants, built by private enterprise. And they work. All we have to do is extend the tax credits for alternate energy and private enterprise will supply the plants. Without taxpayer investments.
64 - Dan(Miller)
Christopher Rose,
It is not that the rules of BC have been violated, or any one or even several comments in particular, on this thread or others. There is nothing that you can or should confront. It is just that so many have descended to the level that I don't feel that I can in good conscience participate substantively for a while. What bothers me is the unreasoned hatred and venom being spewed. That is hardly conducive to useful discussion. As noted, I shall "lurk," and, when I see something upon which I feel that I can usefully comment, I shall do so.
Baronius,
Yep. I agree. I hope that the discussion on BC gets back to the level I had come to respect and in which I had come to love participating. At the moment, it's simply too irrational and too silly to bother.
Dan(Miller)
65 - zingzing
check back after guy fawkes day then, dan(miller). things shall return to the usual snide remarks instead of the current outright hatred.
fuck you republicans. go back to your farms and jerk off yer cows. rapists.
66 - Zedd
Clav,
"Zedd's trying to practice pop psychology without a license again..."
I don't know where your information sources come from. What I stated is not simply my opinion, it is a well known political strategy. Now how do you feel?
67 - Zedd
Dan,
Don't go. I felt the way you did twice before. The discussion got too silly and I felt misunderstood and embarrassed for continuing the dialogue.
I personally enjoy your articles and posts. I agree with most of your analysis (not that you care) except for your recent assessments on the Rep ticket (shocking.... from such a mind). However I hope you enjoy the banter.
68 - Clavos
What I stated is not simply my opinion, it is a well known political strategy.
In Orwell's and Huxley's fine books only.
As for the rest, it springs entirely from your fevered, overwrought mind...
69 - DaveNalle
I am going off BC for a while. The ad hominem attacks, and the distortions by the various commentators are getting to be a bit too much. I will not engage in that sort of stuff, and am embarrassed by those who do. I shall "lurk," and if it seems that there is a comment which is rational and worthy of comment, I shall do so. Otherwise, I'm gone.
I know it gets frustrating to have to counter the same stupid misrepresentations and ad hominems and strawman arguments and blatant falsehoods again and again and again. Plus, the Obamabots and mindless socialists seem to be feeling their oats as the election approaches. But with you gone that means one less voice of reason on BC, so don't get discouraged and do come back soon.
Dave
70 - Pablo
Well, well, well, don't we have here a classic example of the pot calling the kettle black Davey.
You and your sidekick Clavarius are two of the biggest verbal attack dogs on here, with maybe the exception of Barger, who does not write as often.
I watch you in particular Davey, on almost a daily basis use character attack, belittlement, or outright lying in your commenting.
Let me illustrate a classic example. About six weeks ago I sourced an article written in the NY Times about which frankly I could give a shit. However the url that I used in the hypertext link, was from a site that was neo-nazi. I had no idea, since there were no swaztikas on the page, I had landed there from a google search about the particular subject matter. Also in point of FACT I have been throughout my life an avid anti nazi person, and quite vocal about it for the last 30 years. Now here comes Davey, and instantly says that ANYTHING that I say on this site should be disregarded because I am obviously a nazi.
Now in all of my 700 or so posts on this site, I have NEVER adovacted national socialism, racism, sexism, nor hatred towards any other group of human beings other than the ones that are now fleecing all of us throught the Department of Treasury.
What you do dave is character assassination, and I have called you out on it numerous times. It is one thing being an effete snob, or a lover of the ruling elite as Clavy is, but quite another to stoop down to the level of the gutter to try and make a political point, bucko.
So I got a great kick out of your above post #69 as you have no shame.
Of course I never got an apology from you for calling me a nazi, because that is not how you operate is it bubba?
It is not just me that I have seen you do this to, but many others too, on a constant basis denigrate various writers on here, that you happened to disagree with politically. If you would like Dave I can use google, and come up with hundreds of examples of YOU (the political editor of this blog) using character assassination, slur, and outright rudeness in how you have treated other writers on here.
So instead of coming across looking so ridiculous in your above comment, why not repent? Admit that you on many occasions treat others on here not as you would like to be treated yourself, bucko.
I again will remind you about my position versus yours on 9/11.
I maintain that it was a conspiracy
I have sought to show you, that you yourself believe in a conspiracy about 9/11 and who did it. However you are not man enough to admit that you too are a conspiracy theorist too. The main difference between us however, bubba, is that in your theory you say you know what happened (that 19 guys with Osama in charge did it), and in my theory, I do not know.
Thats really the long and short of it, and for that I get denigrated, belittled, and derided because I have the humility to say that I do not know what happened, and furthermore I do not believe my government, quite frankly about anything.
I have and will continue to, call a spade a spade Davey, so yeah I got a big kick out of the above comment. Smirk :)
71 - Dr Dreadful
Dan, I too will be sorry if you are in earnest about your desire to back away from BC. I don't see eye to eye with you on much, but you're easily one of the most even-handed and erudite commentators we have.
One thing I try to demonstrate on these threads is the value of a sense of humor. It can make a cutting point, can deflect or deflate the most egregious of the bottom-feeders, can keep you warm on cold nights and can be quickly converted into a handy umbrella stand.
That's not to say one can't be cranky if the occasion demands. I can give as good as I get and can be downright nasty, but I do try not to be the initiator of such silliness.
BTW, I flew over Panama a couple of weeks ago en route to Peru, and gave you a mental wave as I passed high overhead. It was one in the morning, so you were probably asleep, but it's the thought that counts.
72 - Mark Saleski
I know it gets frustrating to have to counter the same stupid misrepresentations and ad hominems and strawman arguments and blatant falsehoods again and again and again. Plus, the Obamabots and mindless socialists seem to be feeling their oats as the election approaches. But with you gone that means one less voice of reason on BC, so don't get discouraged and do come back soon.
most ironic & chuckle-inducing comment posted here this year. maybe ever.
73 - Lisa Solod Warren
Thank you, Mark Saleski, for speaking the truth.
Sorry you think you have to leave, Dan. The conversation does descend to bizarre levels, as I said in my article, The Fine Art of Blogging, months ago, but it is also, sometimes, quite interesting, and I have found some lovely support, intelligent readers, and even fun new acquaintances. I suspect BC is a lot like real life:) if one doesn't stay locked in a bubble.
74 - Zedd
Clav,
How do you feel? Care to tell me about your nightmares?