Senator Rick Santorum has blamed the Catholic priest pedophilia scandal on, you guessed it, liberalism.
There is an interesting item on Andrew Sullivan's blog linking to an article for Catholic Online written by Republican Senator Rick Santorum, who is well known for his homophobia and ultra-conservatism. Santorum blames the priest pedophilia scandal on, you guessed it, liberalism.Priests, like all of us, are affected by culture. When the culture is sick, every element in it becomes infected. While it is no excuse for this scandal, it is no surprise that Boston, a seat of academic, political and cultural liberalism in America, lies at the center of the storm.Maybe this is going out on a limb, but I bet the fact that Boston is the biggest city in Massachusetts—one of only two states in the U.S. with a majority-Catholic population (the other being tiny Rhode Island)—has a little something to do with it.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - John Bambenek
Because I believe the associated media frenzy was more motivated by anti-Catholic bias than by child abuse because there are more egregarious offenders out there.
27 - Pete Blackwell
John,
Of course priests who abuse children are exceptions to the rule. Most priests, just like most people, don't abuse kids.
What appears NOT to be an exception to the rule is the degree to which individual diocese and the Vatican itself have been complicit in denying, obfuscating and burying these cases as best as they can. Cardinal Law at a position of honor at the Pope's funeral? Come on!
28 - Silas Kain
That being said, Pete. It makes one wonder what else is covered up or at the very least hidden in the vaults of the Vatican Archives. As a priest told me many years ago when I considered the priesthood as my refuge from the world: "The Mother Church has to be preserved no matter what the cost." From that day forward I have been troubled about my dear old Mother Church.
29 - Pete Blackwell
Silas, is your real name Dan Brown? ;)
30 - Silas Kain
No, Pete. The things Brown wrote about have been discussed behind the scenes for years. There's nothing new in his work. He's just taken the whole thing to a new level.
31 - PseudoErsatz
Mr. Blackwell, are all people who do not agree with you homophobic?
32 - PseudoErsatz
Thank you Gonzo, for the "Insidious Troglodyte Award". Admittedly, I went overboard on the Ted Kennedy comment. I thought that including it with comments about priests would mean that it would likely get overlooked. But thanks for not allowing me to get away with it.
By the way, Gonzo, I would likewise like to congratulate you on your "Dog-eared Thesaurus" award. Always make for a better read.
33 - Nancy
I'm glad Silas has joined the ranks of anointed official bloggers who initiate items on-site. Congrats (or should it be condolences?) Silas!
34 - Pete Blackwell
Pseudo: "Mr. Blackwell, are all people who do not agree with you homophobic?"
No, of course not. But your insinuating comment ("This may be a news flash to you, but Mr. Sullivan is not exactly the prototype of neutrality and good intentions. You may want to check what's under the lettuce of the forkful of his poison you're swallowing.") about Andrew Sullivan, a prominent gay conservative, in a discussion about how another prominent conservative links homosexuality and pedophilia, set off my homophobia-dar.
If you weren't refering to his homosexuality when you wrote that, then what were you referring to? What "poison," pray tell, do you mean?
35 - John Bambenek
In the case of priests, you know, they were going after boys for the most part, and since we don't have women priests... doesn't that make it homosexual?
I know there's NAMBLA, is there a NAMWLA, or NAWBLA? You do know that the GLBT NGOs at the UN often INCLUDED NAMBLA until the pro-life crowd got wind of it, don't you?
NAMBLA isn't precisely unwelcomed in the GLBT community.
36 - Steve S
You do know that the GLBT NGOs at the UN often INCLUDED NAMBLA until the pro-life crowd got wind of it, don't you?
Information I come across doesn't mention any pro-life crowd but Muslims instead.
The NGO's at the UN, of which the GLBT community is a part of, is a world-wide organization, John. ANd this world has different cultures and different standards.
At this link here please see the story halfway down the page titled:
Muslim states oppose reinstating gay group
NAMBLA was part of the UN NGO, because different cultures have different age of consent laws and both groups (NAMBLA and the GLBT community) seek to change age of consent laws, but for different reasons of course. In the case of my community, it is because of Romeo Laws, of which Matthew Lymon is a perfect example of being a victim of. He was 18 and had sex with someone who was 2 weeks short of being 18. If his sexual partner had been female, he would have gotten 6 years in prison (still overkill for someone having sex with someone just a few months in age difference), but because his partner was same-sex, he got over 30 years in prison. His case is headed towards the supreme court, in the meantime, he is developmentally disabled and living in prison because he had consenting sex with someone just a few months younger than him.
We seek to address the discrimination that occurs with discrepencies in laws. One of these areas are age of consent laws.
Trying to link the GLBT community with pedophilia, John, is so 70's.
My community is fighting discrimination based on sexual preference. Because your religious community persecutes and oppresses EVERYONE who does not fit your religious mold, we can often find the GLBT community fighting religious dogma right alongside other groups, but that doesn't mean necessarily we endorse each others standpoint. It means your religious crap pretty much affects everybody.
37 - PseudoErsatz
Mr. Blackwell: Mr. Sullivan is unable to change his mind and will not change the subject regarding the defense of his chosen lifestyle. Part of that defense is demonizing anyone who may have a particular view that disapproves of his choices. His 'filter, illogically, only seems to be able to see those who disagree with him as evil, bad, horrible, etc. Ad Hominem attacks are one of his primary methods of discrediting those who disagree with him. Be careful about inheriting Mr. Sullivan's--or any other person's--filters and methods when trying to argue points.
This subject, for example, originally began quoting Santorum's premise that reprehensible individuals--who happened to be priests--may have been influenced by culture's liberal influences to the point where they unfortunately acted to satisfy their own selfish nature rather then serve and protect society. This is especially upsetting--rightly so--because of their sworn role to serve God and the Catholic Church. The end results of their behavior is only pain, sadness, and misery for their victims, and loss of faith in God and a growing distrust in institutions claiming to serve God.
However, as you can read from the reply posts--and I am guilty of this as the next person--most ignore the premise and went after Santorum personally with Ad Hominem attacks, Straw Man attacks, Argument by Selective Observation, Psychogenetic Fallacy, Genetic Fallacy, Argument by Selective Reading, or in my case, by attempting to Change the Subject.
38 - Andrew Ian Dodge
Guess Santorum hasn't read his history. Priests were buggering young boys way before the age of liberalism. I am not surprised Santorum has come out with such a daft statement though; he does rather excel at them.
39 - Pete Blackwell
Pseudo,
I seriously disagree with your characterization of Sullivan and totally reject your argument that he resorts to ad hominem attacks. Where's your proof?
I also reject Santorum's "logic" (and yours) about homosexuality being a symptom of cultural sickness.
We're probably going to have to agree to disagree.
Here's hoping all your kids (and Senator Rick's) are straight.
40 - Silas Kain
John, fags don't go after boys. Can I make it any plainer than that? I figured I'd use language that you could understand. You said:NAMBLA is FAR from welcomed in the GLBT community. Kids are off limits, period. There were other times and cultures in history that accepted this man/boy thing but ours does not. That is what we, as a society, have decided. What frightens me is that the majority of people out there have a propensity to believe that homosexuals are natural born predators and pedophiliacs. That's a crock. Twice the number of girls will be molested by these male predators than boys. We're so busy protecting the future penises of the world that we've forgotten the girls who are victims. Oh, but then again, isn't that the conservative approach? All for men, shit on the women?
41 - swingingpuss
Back in Dallas I was asked by an anti-gay person whether I would allow my son to go scouting with a gay scout.
I told him to think twice before he allowed his son to spend the night at our place since I was a straight woman and all that...
42 - PseudoErsatz
Pete, I appreciate your responses. I apologise for letting Sullivan's opinion color my response. He is only one man.
I can hope for, but not control my children's lifestyle choice after they leave home. Until that point, I hope I have the freedom and parental rights to teach them that our Creator made them male or female for a specific purpose. I hope I am able push aside pride, selfishness, and fear in my own life in order to model to them a just and loving 'male' example--and the various male roles such as father and husband-- via interaction with their mother. I hope I can provide a nuturing environment for them that protects them from things and people that would just want to use them for their own gain. I hope I can leave them with the the ability to discern that while all men are created equal, not all ideas that proceed from the minds and mouths of men are equal. Lastly, I hope my children will know that the strength of someone's 'feelings' about this or that is no indication of whether it is right or wrong.
43 - Steve S
I can hope for, but not control my children's lifestyle choice after they leave home.
This is true. But just so you are clear, sexual orientation is not a lifestyle choice. My lifestyle of being a stay-at-home dad is a choice. The partner I fell in love with, was not a lifestyle choice.
Until that point, I hope I have the freedom and parental rights to teach them that our Creator made them male or female for a specific purpose.
And I hope you have that right too. And I SERIOUSLY hope that none of your children are gay because it is beliefs instilled like that, which drive up gay youth suicide rates. Suppose your child is gay and is told that he has a purpose, but it doesn't match what's inside him? Think he can shrug off a 'lifestyle choice'? Doesn't work that way, if you want to teach your children such religious beliefs (that sex is from divinity), then you can do so, but sex is within us and can't be changed, so if it doesn't match your child's psyche, it can easily destroy him/her.
I hope I am able push aside pride, selfishness, and fear in my own life in order to model to them a just and loving 'male' example--and the various male roles such as father and husband-- via interaction with their mother.
Most every gay person had a father figure who interacted with their mother, so that has nothing to do with developing a person's sexual attraction but parental interaction is always a good thing, so go for it.
Lastly, I hope my children will know that the strength of someone's 'feelings' about this or that is no indication of whether it is right or wrong.
The values you want to raise your children with, are the values I was raised with. It is these values that have instilled in me a strong urge for family so with my same-sex partner we have built a family. Best of luck to you and your children, hopefully they can have the same.
44 - Silas Kain
I told him to think twice before he allowed his son to spend the night at our place since I was a straight woman and all that...
LOL, swing. But don't you know that the 13 year-old boy who beds down a housewife is 'lucky'? Most conservative men don't call that pedophilia... they call it training.
45 - beadtot
A priest was crushed underneath a rolling metal driveway barrier over here on the San Francisco peninsula -- only a few miles from 'Santora's Janitorial Supplies'. The birds are still yacking about it.
46 - Jason
Being a Boston native (an Independent and a non-Catholic) I have never read anything as insulting, bigoted and ignorant as what Santorum wrote on the Catholic Online website. How about placing the blame for the priests abuses where it belongs: the Catholic church and the deviant individuals that used the power and authority of their robes to prey on innocent children. The culture in the city of Boston (and Massachusetts in general) had NOTHING to do with it. If Santorum knew ANTHING about Boston, he might have had a clue. What an a%&hole.
47 - John Bambenek
Jason-
Thanks for YOUR bigoted comments...
Who do we blame about sex abuse in schools? Opus Dei?
48 - Nancy
John, how is Jason's comment bigoted? Adult indivduals are responsible for their own actions. The priests were to blame for their own crimes, and the church for aiding and abetting them by covering it up and moving them around instead of doing what they should have done: removing the priests & taking care of the victims instead of trying to silence & threaten them. In no way is the state of Massachusetts, the city of Boston, or the New England area in general at all involved in this, unless you think they're putting something in the water that causes deviance in selected priests & Bernie Law.
You really need to back off this and calm down; you're starting to blog non-sequiturs.
49 - John Bambenek
How about placing the blame for the priests abuses where it belongs: the Catholic church
He adds the Catholic Church universally to blame as well as the deviants involved which I read to include those who abused power to cover it up.
It's not a strecth to read that as laying the blame on the entire Church.
50 - andy marsh
IT IS THE CHURCHES FAULT!!! These priests were found out and hidden BY THE CHURCH!!! Who do you want to blame? The kids?
One of THE MOST POWERFUL people in the Catholic church in the U.S. knew what was happening and hid these pedophiles away!!!
If Bernard Law is NOT the face of the catholic church in New England than who is? And who would you blame?
51 - andy marsh
and BTW...I spent 11 years in catholic school...was an alter boy and was never once touched by a priest...that must just be the NJ diocese though!
52 - John Bambenek
Andy-
I blame the Democratic Party.
53 - Nancy
Andy, I think John is trying (& succeeding) to push your buttons. I interpret what he's writing as some sort of humor, because he can't be serious.
John, the Catholic church is a very strict heirarchy. I was born into it, so may you have been. In which case you know as well as I that NOTHING happens in an archbishopric that the archbishop is not well aware of, and if it's a legal problem, the O.P.F. (then occupied by the current pope) & the pope himself are also well aware, and in fact, the O.P.F. dictates the course the diocese will take in response to whatever problem. So the pope knew what was going on, and approved of then-Cardinal Ratzinger directing Law to reassign problem priests and hush up the scandal any way he could, i.e. thru spiritual blackmail, slander, libel, or legal prosecution, which Law then proceeded to do. Law's own records are proof of that, and even the church doesn't deny it. Since the pope more or less IS The Church, yes - the Church ignored the crimes, committed further crimes of its own by covering them up, falsifying data, and stonewalling legal processes. That the Church & Law were in error & in danger of criminal contempt if not aiding & abetting charges is borne out by the pope & Ratzinger removing Law to Rome, out of reach of the Mass. Attorney General, because Law was indicted by a grand jury on these same charges. Should he ever set foot back in the states, he's subject to arrest and jailing, same as any other fugitive from justice, regardless of religion or party.
None of these people - the pope, Ratzinger, Bernard Law, the pedophile priests - have anyone else to blame for their actions but themselves. No political party, either R or D, had anything to do with it. Are you saying that these priests and Law should be exempt from prosecution, like in the middle ages? Above the law?
They knowingly & willingly violated one of their professed leader's most stressed statements, concerning innocents, children, etc., not to mention state & federal US law, and they did it for the most prurient and venal of reasons: to avoid a scandal, to save their own butts, and to try and keep the church from having to pay money. They lost. And the shame and sin are eternally on them (yeah, I'm not an RC anymore, but I can still talk the talk and I know what they're guilty of in church law as well as they do), as are their indictments. And if any further proof were needed, the church itself decided to settle, rather than have to really face the music and expose their records to public scrutiny in a court of law. Why? Because they knew what was in those records, and it would damn them all even more than what was known would do.
So stop this asinine nonsense about the pedophilia/church scandal being the 'fault' of Democrats. It's nothing of the sort, and you're making yourself look like a horses patoot by insisting on it. Either that or perhaps you're drunk or on drugs, I don't know. But you're not making sense if you're being serious.
54 - Steve S
This is a hoot. John Bambineck in comment 47 and 49 rants and raves about bigotry because the priest abuse scandal is put ENTIRELY upon the chuch. How bigoted and how sad, John says.
Then he lays a blanket of blame on the entire Democratic party.
I guess we like a little hypocrisy with our hyperbole in the morning.
So you hear that folks? Sexual abuse of minors in the church is not the church's fault and it is bigoted of you to say so. The Democrats are responsible for what people of faith do in their own buildings! What power the Democrats have and they don't even know it.
55 - The Theory
The Democratic Party is the easy scapegoat for everything that goes wrong in the world, apperantly. "Hey, the sky is falling! Damn democrats!"
Really, it's all the Republican's fault.
56 - Nancy
Indeed. It must be something the Dems put in all the church waterfountains & holy water fonts.
to reprise
And this is good old Boston
the home of the bean and the cod
where the priests have been buggering children
'cause the liberals incite them, by God!
(apologies to an anonymous member of one of the 19th cent. Boston clubs)
57 - Jason
John Bambenek, I think you've been properly and rightfully spanked after you commented on my post #46. What's beautiful is that the more the defenders of right-wing extremism proclaim their thoughts and ideas, the more they expose themselves for the small-minded, hate-mongering fools that they are. Those that oppose the right (call them Democrats, liberals, progressives, anti-Bush..whatever) are starting to wake up and get involved and soon the wingnuts will find themselves surrounded by informed citizens that aren't going to standby and listen to their warped lies and hateful bigotry any longer. I'm going to enjoy the hell out of that!
58 - John Bambenek
My hateful bigotry? I'm not blaming a Church of 1 to 1.5 billion adherents for pedophilia.
59 - John Bambenek
Let's clarify some words here...
Homosexual - wants to have sex with someone of the same gender.
Heterosexual - likes the other sex.
You can have pedophiles who are homosexual and pedophiles who are heterosexual, and there are both.
And the facts about NAMBLA being a part of the GLBT fold are quite clear.
Nancy-
Blaming members of the hierarchy is different then saying the entire Church is at fault. And I think you overestimate the "strictness" of that hierarchy.
60 - Steve S
Let's clarify some words here...
Okay, but let's PROPERLY clarify them.
Homosexual - wants to have sex with someone of the same gender.
Wrong. Homosexual is attraction to the same gender. Doesn't necessarily correlate into 'I want to sleep with him'.
Heterosexual - likes the other sex.
Well no wonder your divorce rate is so high. All you do is LIKE each other?
I like tacos, but if I had to have them EVERY night I'm sure I'd be tempted to sneak out at night and sample a little chalupa. No wonder your divorce rate is what, over 50%? Try love sometime. :-)
And the facts about NAMBLA being a part of the GLBT fold are quite clear.
Since you keep on bringing NAMBLA up to lay a blanket condemnation upon millions of people who abhor child abuse, I did a quick google search on NAMBLA and came up with this:
From Prevent Abuse Now, they post an article they found in a boy chat forum (from a boylover). This is what he said:
First of all, boy-lovers are generally attacked for one of three reasons: 1. Our beliefs, 2. Illegal behavior, 3. Because of our sexual attraction to boys (sexual identity).
In turn, these attacks usually come from one of four places: 1. The mainstream gay community. 2. Religious fundamentalists, 3. Misguided survivors of sexual abuse, 4. Child Advocacy and protection groups.
He also says this:
"NAMBLA's 1996 National Membership Conference in Hayward, California also marked a turning point. It was at this conference that NAMBLA members voted to close their doors to NAMBLA chapter meetings, and discontinue their annual National Membership Conference. This is significant because it in effect said that it was no longer safe for BL's to look for any organized support, or attempt to build community, outside of the internet."
Doesn't sound like my community is supporting NAMBLA at all! Now, let's condemn all heterosexuals because some of them believe in the legality of prostitution and the Mustang Ranch. And that clearly goes against God. How's that for a blanket condemnation, John? You are part of a deviant, immoral group that must be stopped.
61 - Jason
In post #50 Andy Marsh does a pretty good job of explaining that the Catholic church as an institution failed on the pedophilia problem when powerful people within the church (those that made the decisions on where they could hide the offenders) covered up rather than admit and deal with the issue. Noone has pointed the finger at Catholics (all 1.5 billion or whatever) they are the victims here. The Catholic church as an institution must take a portion of the blame. I don't think there's been much debate about that.
62 - John Bambenek
The Catholic Church, as an institution, INCLUDES those 1 -1.5 billion adherents... try agiain.
63 - John Bambenek
Steve-
That was humor... try again.
64 - Nancy
Ok, John, I will make this much of a consession to your terminology: if one considers 'The Church' to actually be all members, from highest to lowest, then no, the ENTIRE church is not responsible. The parishioners of East Littleneck, Where-ever are certainly innocent. That's as far as I'll go. They, like the victims themselves were betrayed by men, both priests & the heirarchy, who are & were under oath to God to protect the innocent. How these men manage to say mass, take communion, or even sleep at night, is beyond me, seeing as they're under a pretty heavy indictment by JC no less, that 'whoever offends one of these little ones, it were better for him to have a millstone tied around his neck...' etc. I'd be out of my mind w/terror for my soul, at the least - and I'm no practicing christian, but I do believe in divine justice. And IMO, I think it's unlikely God listens to excuses or self-justification. The fact is, the ENTIRE chain of command involved in every single diocese involved in these episodes - and that includes the late JP II & the current Benedict the umpteenth, as well as the involved bishops & archbishops - most certainly are both responsible & guilty. Their own actions and reactions in shielding various ranking church princes convict them all. And if you think the heirarchy isn't strict & pretty all-controlling, you obviously haven't been reading even the commonplace commentaries concerning Benny before he was elected pope, or the iron grip JP II kept over The Church during his tenure. Common evidence, common knowledge, published in commonly available sources, impossible for any literate person to have ignored in the past decade or so. To continue to be an apologist for these morally bankrupt church leaders is pretty sorry, as well as desperate & hopeless. The irony is JP II is already being considered for sainthood. Talk about coverups & ignoring inconvenient facts.
65 - andy marsh
Figures they'd have there meeting right outside of SF!
66 - Steve S
I guess the stadium at Liberty University was booked, Andy.
67 - Nancy
In that these men represent the official authority of the church, if not the actual 'church universal', yes, The Church is very much guilty as charged. The unfortunate fact is, they have added tarnish to an already crumbling, discredited, and tarnished institution.
68 - Jason
John, you numbskull (no really, you're not too bright), you're playing semantic games. People have clearly resonded that the members of the church are not to blame, the churches leaders/infrastructure/heirarchy is to blame. You seem to be avoiding the bigger issue here though. Do you agree with Santorum? Do you think that "liberalism" in Boston contributed to the scandal? Oce you answer that question we'll have a better idea what your point is.
69 - Nancy
I'd be interested in how ANY other force than the lusts/decisions of these pedophiles themselves would be involved. Does John think liberals published secret documents or sent out subliminal radio waves inciting these priests to do this? Or is he blaming the state for investigating & convicting criminals, while he exonerates the priests & heirarchy of any responsibility/complicity whatsoever? Either way, John, since Massachusetts is under a Republican gov, who oversees the projects of the D.A., and who wholeheartedly approved of the D.A. going after the church in this matter, and since Republicans are conservatives, you're still in a hole as far as logic goes.
70 - Jason
Nancy,
The comments from Santorum strike me as part and parcel of the greater Republican strategy of demonizing the left/liberals and ultimately Democrats. Karl Rove recently took it too far with his comments about how same reacted in the wake of 9/11 and this is an extension of this effort. It's DISGRACEFUL though that a punk like Santorum would condemn an entire city/region by painting them all with a broadbrush in a matter that is so serious. Santorum and his ilk will pay for this, I'm sure of it.
71 - Silas Kain
72 - SIlas Kain
Let's hope so, Jason. People like Senator Santorum feed the fires of hate under the guise of piety. All one needs to do is look at the reports his campaign files with the Federal Elections Commission to see how much of a hypocrite the man really is.
73 - Nancy
Silas, who is the sociopath? John? I don't think so; I think he's having knee-jerk reactions against both liberals & what he perceives as attacks on himself thru his church, perhaps. I don't know. The point you raise about whether law enforcement/politicians knew about this all along is interesting; has anything been said or addressed about this that has appeared in the media? My impression was that the church officials hid all evidence & documentation until the DA started getting nasty, and only after the victims & their families had finally had enough of the church bullying and slanders. What is NAMBLA? Sorry for the ignorance; what is that Buddhist saying about enlightening one ignorant person lights up a universe?
74 - andy marsh
Why not here at Regents University then Steve?
75 - Steve S
andy, why would you expect me to know?