Warning to conservative talkers: objects in the rear-view mirror may be closer than they appear.
"A sinister cabal of superior writers."
Rush Limbaugh Faltering, Air America Radio Gaining in Florida - Comments Page 2
Warning to conservative talkers: objects in the rear-view mirror may be closer than they appear.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Dave Nalle
'Taking pain killers' is one thing. Rush snorted ground up painkillers that weren't prescribed to him. That's just a tiny bit different. Nonetheless, lots of people have substance abuse problems and go to rehab and get straightened out and the public forgives them. I might note that this includes our President. Others - including prominent Democrats like Teddy Kennedy - just continue to function with their ongoing substance abuse problems and if they can still do their jobs we give them a pass out of respect for their privacy.
As for Bill Maher - what beyond his grating personality do you really need to turn his show off? The only thing on the air that's more painful is Franken's TV borecast of his radio show. With John Stewart and Dennis Miller on the air doing this kind of show right, how can those two clowns show their faces at all?
And finally, Balletshooz doesn't need the real Arbitron numbers, when he can get his summary and talking points direct from DailyKos, where there are already articles misrepresting the data so he can just borrow their errors.
Dave
27 - Nancy
I find Limbaugh to be another self-righteous phoney & hypocrit. I can respect most people who have different views, even extreme ones, but someone who makes a living out of verbally attacking those who can't respond or defend themselves because they don't have the same resources he does is a pig, and he's one of the most porcine, mentally as well as physically. Which reminds me: anyone notice how he & Rove look like long-lost twins: pudgy & pasty-looking, like unbaked dough.
28 - Nancy
Sorry - transposed that 'e'. Where's my coffee...?!
29 - Barbara
>>'Taking pain killers' is one thing. Rush snorted ground up painkillers that weren't prescribed to him. That's just a tiny bit different. <<
What's the difference? its STILL TAKING DRUGS. Splitting hairs is not deflecting the truth - Rush is a lying blowhard.
30 - Dave Nalle
>>What's the difference? its STILL TAKING DRUGS. Splitting hairs is not deflecting the truth - Rush is a lying blowhard.<<
The difference is that if you're taking a prescription medicine for pain and taking the prescribed dosage for the proper amount of time it's not illegal and it's not a drug habit.
That said, you seem to have paranoidly leapt to the conclusion that I was defending Rush. Go back and read my comment again.
Dave
31 - Gabriel Chapman
I wonder if Rush being on Vacation for 2 weeks has anything to do with lower ratings.
Then again far be it from this repetative clown Ballethooz to come up with anything but yet another dellusional rambling.
Who let this clown post here>
32 - ss
I can't prove Rush is an addict, but I hope he is, and I hope all the evils depicted in Reefer Madness befall him. Plus one more, the one where he ends up in an alley telling a dealer
"I'll do anything baby...I"LL SUCK YER DICK!"
But seriously...
Where do you draw the line between long term use of a legally prescribed drug and drug addiction?
Once upon a time you could have said one's medical and the other starts out as just plain fun (though if it ends up just boring, you got lucky)
Since Viagra hit the market, not to mention all the 'mood managers' that, supposedly, 'real' drug addicts like alot too, how can you really tell the difference?
33 - Balletshooz
Sure. I wish someone would pay me to rant on a blog. Oops, I meant to link to the Arbitrons. My second link came out wrong.
Here is the link.
Arbitron
Here they are below as well.
(Copyrighted material deleted - DN/Ed)
34 - Balletshooz
Gee Dave, the arbitrons you link to show the exact numbers I posted above in my article. So who is misrepresenting the truth?
35 - Matthew T. Sussman
May not be quoted or reproduced without prior written permission of Arbitron.
Have fun in jail!
36 - Balletshooz
Oh gee, Im scared. Oh well, I intended to link to the page, which is publicly available.
I actually would prefer to remove that comment and just leave the link to the site, but I dont know how.
37 - Dave Nalle
>>Copyright 2004-2005 Arbitron Inc. May not be quoted or reproduced without prior written permission of Arbitron. <<
LOL. Did you get their permission?
>>Gee Dave, the arbitrons you link to show the exact numbers I posted above in my article. So who is misrepresenting the truth?<<
You are, because you reported only half of the market data for the radio stations and you compared numbers from two different time periods. Do you actually READ the comments before responding to them?
>>Oh gee, Im scared. <<
You should be embarassed by the original post and your followups, not scared.
>>Oh well, I intended to link to the page, which is publicly available.
I actually would prefer to remove that comment and just leave the link to the site, but I dont know how.<<
No need. I already posted the link twice for you.
Dave
38 - Balletshooz
Oh I see, because Dave wants to insert new markets and new time periods for which I have not analyzed in my article then somehow I misrepresented the truth. Sure. Im not buying it. You should be embarrased for that blatant bait and switch.
39 - Dave Nalle
They're not new markets, they're one radio listening area divided into two markets by Arbitron. There's overlap because the towns are right next to each other. You can hear radio stations from both markets in both towns. Look at a map sometime. You can't assess the listenership of the two shows without combining the data from the two areas.
And there are no new time periods. You compared ratings changes from different time periods in your article. Why are you incapable of just admitting you made a mistake?
Dave
40 - Balletshooz
Just look at my comment 33. It shows the exact numbers I cited in my article. They are Arbitron's numbers, not mine.
Sure your point has validity, but it wasnt my purpose to analyze Boca Raton too.
"Why are you incapable of just admitting you made a mistake?"
It wasnt a mistake to analyze miami and exclude boca raton.
Although if I am accused of not being able to admit a mistake, then I do have something in common with George Bush after all!
41 - Silas Kain
Matthew, Matthew, Matthew. We can always count on you to bring forth some sanity in this insane world. Do you honestly think Arbitron really cares that their data was cited? Perhaps you've been watching too many reruns of OZ.
42 - Matthew T. Sussman
I can assure you, Silas, that the sanity brought by me is an illusion and only looks saner by comparison to my soul.
43 - Dave Nalle
>Just look at my comment 33. It shows the exact numbers I cited in my article. They are Arbitron's numbers, not mine.
Sure your point has validity, but it wasnt my purpose to analyze Boca Raton too.<<
Because you didn't want to present a complete picture of the actual listenership of the stations involved. Was it a mistake or a choice to not include the second station in the area which could reach listeners and also carries Rush Limbaugh?
>>"Why are you incapable of just admitting you made a mistake?"
It wasnt a mistake to analyze miami and exclude boca raton.<<
No, that was a deliberate deception. The 'mistake' I'm referring to is this:
>>In the Spring 2005 reporting period, Rush’s station WIOD-AM has a 2.8 listener share, down a whopping 33% from his 4.2 share in the Fall of 2004. Air America Radio, on the other hand, has a 2.0 share in Spring 2005, up a grand total of 66% since the Fall of 2004.<<
You report WIOD's listenership change from fall to spring - 2 seasons. You report AAR's change from Winter to Spring - 1 season. Most talk radio stations had spike in listenership in the fall because of the election. Using as your baseline for one station the Fall ratings and as your starting point for the other the Winter ratings is an invalid comparison. If you do a Winter to Spring comparison for the two stations just in the one market, both are up. This is either a mistake or a deliberate deception. Maybe I was too kind to call it a mistake.
Dave
44 - John
AAR is wonderful and Rush is sick.
45 - slick
Geez people. Let's make it simple.
AAR is gaining traction in markets around the country and other's are not. If you really want to spend some time, do a national analysis and post that.
You all can split hairs over the arbitron numbers all you want, but the trend can not be denied. There's always two sides to a story and the audience wants to hear that. I'd like to remind you that the audience is America.
Who cares about someones personal drug use/problem? I don't! Doesn't bother me one bit! Get off it! Start talking about the issues that pertain to our great country. Use your energy for that!!! That's what makes both networks great and that's why they are enjoying the ratings that they are.
While you all are using your time to argue with each other, someone else just came in there to fill that void.
46 - Dave Nalle
>>AAR is gaining traction in markets around the country and other's are not. If you really want to spend some time, do a national analysis and post that.<<
I believe Arbitron already has national analysis numbers by specific talker. Interesting that Balletshooz isn't using those - I'll look into it.
>>You all can split hairs over the arbitron numbers all you want, but the trend can not be denied. There's always two sides to a story and the audience wants to hear that. I'd like to remind you that the audience is America.<<
Sure it can be denied. The problem is that every time Balletshooz brings up a specific market and claims there's a growth trend he turns out to be wrong. It's either a trend of growth for all radio in the market, or he's left out new stations which carry Limbaugh in addition to the one he looks at. It never seems to actually be the case that listeners have switched from one to the other.
Dave
47 - slick
Dave, you're fast. I couldn't hit the refresh button fast enough!
I'm curious, how would you're analysis of the Los Angeles market be? Specifically KFI and KTLK?
And forget Balletshooz, we're talking now; let's be nice and civilized, please.
48 - Dave Nalle
I have to make a correction to what I posted earlier. I was looking at the data rather than the seasons involved and misinterpreted somethign Balletshooz did.
The problem with his analysis of the Arbitron data is that he has arbitrarily chosen as his basis for comparison a starting date where WIOD had a spike because of the election while the AAR station was new and unknown and did not. Because the AAR station's numbers are identical for Winter and Fall I misinterpreted what he was doing by looking at the sequence of numbers rather than the seasons. The actual flaw here is not in comparing starting from different seasons, but in picking the most unfavorable and unrepresentative combination of numbers to compare. For a fair comparison he either needs to look at a longer period or compare growth in a normal season which isn't impacted by the election.
And, of course, he's still ignoring those who listen to Rush on other stations.
Dave
49 - Dave Nalle
Slick, I believe that Balletshooz posted a similar article on LA a couple of weeks ago and someone else did the same sort of analysis of that one that I did of this one, again pointing out that he had ignored the fact that Limbaugh is carried on multiple stations while AAR is only on one station.
I believe that post is located here.
I have to go eat dinner, but later today I plan to look at national Arbitron trends on this and I'll look at LA too.
Dave
50 - slick
Dave, thank you for your honesty. Kudos to you!!!!
I'm still uncertain as to what your impression of the Los Angeles market is with KFI and KTLK.
Of course if AAR had 4, 8 or 12 full arbitron books behind it, that would make things fun, but AAR doesn't have that as compared to Rush and his network.
I would have to say though as a whole, the markets that AAR has entered, there is a general decline in listeners to Rush vs. the increase in listeners to the local AAR station. Los Angeles aside, look at Portland, Oregon for example.
My point here is that it's pointless to split hairs over the arbtron numbers. We all know that the swing goes both ways and currently the swing is going in AAR's direction; powered by the nonstop influx of political movement in our current time. Iraq, Rove, Bolton all force all informed Americans to seek out all sides of the arguement and that is where AAR is filling the void. They provide a first or second perspective (depending on your school of thought)that can't be found anywhere else right now and that's what will continue, as a whole, to drive their ratings up; hopefully both in the end inspiring Americans to become even more involved in the political fabiric of our day!
51 - Duece
I'm too busy to listen to talk radio.
What do people do for a living, that they have all of this disposable time to devote to talking heads?
I work, I play music at night, I get up, I go to work. I make good money, have a nice house 3 cars etc... but I'll be damned if can figure out the time factor involved to paying attention to blather all day long.
Wow. What an eye opener.
52 - slick
Deuce,
Welcome.
53 - gregrocker
The right will attack anything reflexively because they are by nature reactionaries and don't know any other path to power. Now that they control the government, we can see what positive programs they have to offer - war and fiscal disaster. The left was built on programs like the New Deal but have been shut out of power and now find themselves in the position of reacting, a political paradign they had no history or preparation for other than Vietnam (not a bad one considering the circumstances). Air America has come along to coalesce the opposition at the same time that there was a desperate need to counter the right's pirating of the AM radio dial for nonstop blanket agitprop. It is kind of an ill-fitting suit, but necessary nonetheless. America will rue the (election) day it took away checks and balances in a system built on just that. AAR is all we have got, plus a couple of pugnacious Boxers who are flummoxing their corrupt leadership.
54 - Natalie Davis
True that, but let's be fair. Not everyone on the right leaps to knee-jerk reactions and many on the left do.
55 - El Bicho
"...Dennis Miller on the air doing this kind of show right"
Dave, if Miller was so right, his show wouldn't have been cancelled back in May. You spend too much time online.
Also, I notice different items being argued. While Balletshooz is premature and ridiculous with the ratings proclamations, you don't get to combine radio stations ratings because that's not the way the game is played. Advertisers only pay for commercials on one station, except for network spots. The ratings are for the benefit of charging advertisers, so total listenership belongs in a different discussion
56 - Dave Nalle
>>I would have to say though as a whole, the markets that AAR has entered, there is a general decline in listeners to Rush vs. the increase in listeners to the local AAR station. Los Angeles aside, look at Portland, Oregon for example.<<
In every market I've looked at if you take the full numbers including multiple stations carrying Rush and whatever stations are carryng AAR content, AAR makes gains - they have the advantage of starting out from scratch - but the key thing is that they are definitively NOT making those gains at the expense of conservative programming. They're either getting new audience or getting it from PBS. Every example I've seen of a conservative station going down while AAR goes up is flawed - it's almost always people switching from one conservative station to another, not to AAR.
>>My point here is that it's pointless to split hairs over the arbtron numbers. We all know that the swing goes both ways and currently the swing is going in AAR's direction; powered by the nonstop influx of political movement in our current time. <<
The growth AAR is experiencing is because they're new. And it's not a swing, unless it's from PBS which isn't in the Arbitron ratings.
But I have to add that I think the Arbitron rating system sucks and is totally inaccurate, but it's what we have.
Dave
57 - Dave Nalle
>>Also, I notice different items being argued. While Balletshooz is premature and ridiculous with the ratings proclamations, you don't get to combine radio stations ratings because that's not the way the game is played. <<
The comparison being made by Balletshooz is of AAR vs. Rush Limbaugh, so it's entirely correct to include in that ALL the stations Limbaugh is on in a given market. In addition, the comparison in Florida is flawed not only by his omission of the second Limbaugh station (which is actually pretty tiny), but even more by his ignoring of the complete ratings for the stations he looked at by not combining numbers for the two markets those stations reach. Would the comparison be valid if I only looked at WOID and WINZ in WPB/Boca where Limbaugh gained and AAR lost following?
Dave
58 - Ed
B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T
Air America is the most Heartless group of People on Earth.
You don't believe me, just ask the Boys/Girls Club that they STOLE over $800,000 from.
59 - Dave Nalle
At this point I think we need a new complaint about Air America, Ed. That one's pretty much played out, and regardless of what you read on FreeRepublic, the current management of AAR had no direct connection to the crime you're trying to pin on them.
Let's just stick to how they're boring, grating and unpopular - can't go wrong with those complaints.
Dave
60 - KL
If you listened to Rush you would see that he does not belittle callers are spew hate. I believe that he cares about our country, just as I do, and really has a heart of gold. All the negative things that people think or say about his actions are spread by people that do not know first hand, they are just going on rumors that are popular. It's easy to dismiss something you do not have much real knowledge of.
61 - billy
"Rush you would see that he does not belittle callers or spew hate."
Have you ever heard Rush? He called a military member a "staff puke" he called women "femenazis" he called liberals "terrorist sympathizers". He is probably one of the most hateful men in america.
Davem you are right, that freeper line is played out. there are plenty of real complaints, like
"Replacing Morning Sedition with Springer was a mistake"
"Al Franken is sort of boring"
"Alot of Sirius subscribers were caught off guard when they went exclusive with XM"
"Some of their stations are fuzzy"
But overall AAR is a breath of fresh air.
62 - Jon
hahaha, what a joke. Rush kicks Air America's ass, and Air America will be bankrupt just as soon as its investors get tired of losing money on it. Keep dreaming, libs, but unfortunately for you, reality is NOT defined by your perceptions, no matter how strongly you insist those delusions are fact. :P
63 - Dave Nalle
You know, every time I see this title with my old eyes I think it says 'Rush Limbaugh Fattening..."
Dave
64 - MCH
Jon;
Looks like you're into labels. So if "lib" is short for liberal, would that make you conservatives "cons"?
65 - Michael J. West
I hate Rush Limbaugh and everything he says and stands for. But if Air America's gaining ratings points it ain't because I'm listening to it. Even considering that I agree with the majority of things they say, it's the exact opposite of entertainment. That's what radio IS--entertainment. And who the Hell wants to listen to a bunch of self-righteous anger from jerks who don't really know how to do radio (and believe it or not, there's more to it than being articulate and knowing the issues)?
I'm not saying you're right or wrong about the Arbitron ratings. I'm just saying I'm not sure if it's a good thing that more people are listening to Air America. Good politics; bad radio. It's doing way more damage to the liberal cause than Rush is.
66 - Rush is a fat pig
Rush Limbaugh is a retarded sack of shit. Hypocrite and liar.
67 - Ed
A couple of notes from a radio insider:
1. Talk radio numbers normally go down for established stations in the spring book. Fall's prime time for talk/radio -- election cycles are big.
2. Rush's 4 rating in Miami ain't much to begin with. Perhaps the talk and news audience is fragmented along linguistic lines not seen in other markets. If so, then it's hard to apply Miami's numbers across a broad section of the country.
3. AAR's growth is, despite all of the above, fairly remarkable. Anyone who wants to minimize a jump from 0.5 to 2.0 should look first to any set of format changes to see how hard it is to add 1.5 points at the same time you disrupt your programming. Many format changes result in lower initial ratings, as the old station's fans take off and new listeners come into the tent oh-so-slowly.
The old PR guy in me says this: Rush wouldn't be comparing himself to AAR unless there was a problem. Otherwise, he'd do what you always do in the radio biz: ignore the competition.
AAR is clearly on Limbaugh's radar screen.
About damn time.
68 - ed
Dave's comments (not seen before posting) about Miami being a combined market also affect overall ratings. Still, if you live in Miami, why would you listen to Rush (or anything else) on an out-of-market or out-of-the-city station? It speaks to a potential problem with the station itself. However, I'd be willing to bet that most of each city's Rush listenership is from their respective cities. Given identical programming, one would likely stay with the station that provided the most local information.
69 - Dave Nalle
>>1. Talk radio numbers normally go down for established stations in the spring book. Fall's prime time for talk/radio -- election cycles are big.<<
Which is one of the things which screws up all of these articles from Balletshooz, because he never takes that into account.
>>2. Rush's 4 rating in Miami ain't much to begin with. Perhaps the talk and news audience is fragmented along linguistic lines not seen in other markets.<<
Bingo. And it IS seen in other markets. The real story in Radio right now isn't AAR, it's the surge in popularity of new Hispanic Talk stations all over the country.
>>The old PR guy in me says this: Rush wouldn't be comparing himself to AAR unless there was a problem. Otherwise, he'd do what you always do in the radio biz: ignore the competition.<<
Rush is right to compare himself to AAR. The most successful shows there - especially Randi Rhodes have basically cloned his format, including cloning his rather vicious and poorly researched attacks.
Dave
70 - Scott Butki
If you're confused it's probably because the premise of this piece is flawed, as Dave points out in his posts.
71 - Dave Nalle
He's also confused because he's a spammer, Scott - check the URL.
I'm away from my office or I'd delete it - will catch it later if no one else does.
Dave
72 - Merrily Hines
Rush Limbaugh faltering?????? Wishfull thinking pal. He expresses, quite eloquently, the thoughts and feelings of a great many Americans. We just tend to be quieter and more dignified in our criticisms than the "great unwashed" radical left".
73 - MCH
Merrily;
Limbaugh has at least one thing in common with the "great unwashed radical left"....
....draft dodging....
:-)
74 - Tony
The author of this article is a doorknob. It's content is mostly wishful thinking combined with the hopes and aspirations of the author for some lib to come along and challenge Limbaugh. It's never going to happen dude, nobody wants to listen to a bunch of drivel from Franken or his lame list of cohorts at Air America. The free market just isn't supporting them. Liars like Franken can only last so long before they are smothered by their own words.
Where is Air America today. I'll tell you, they can barely make payroll and they can barely keep listeners.
75 - Nancy
Limbaugh only continues to make payroll because his neocon backers funnel money to him; that's how he stays in business. He has no audience except the hard-core idiots who think Bush is the son of God.