Reverend Wright reminds voters why they'd be crazy to vote for Obama in November.
Much to the chagrin of Obama supporters, as well as to the scorn of most normal people everywhere, Reverend Wright seems to be on some kind of speaking tour. It must be Christmas for the GOP because this is the gift that keeps on giving.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments76 - bliffle
Marsh,
It's a mistake to judge a man by the company he keeps.
Judas kept excellent company.
77 - Pablo
Ruvy,
To set the record straight as it seems like you are putting words into my mouth sir. I never said that Israel should not exist. I simply set out in a very brief way my understanding of how the globalists started the state with the Balfour Declaration.
Might makes right, as it always has and always will when it comes to territory, just as my own country was created by force of arms, and sending native inhabitants to reservations. Does the US have a right to exist. Of course it does, as your country does too. The proof is in the pudding as it were. So please refrain from mis-characterizing what I say, as I NEVER said nor implied that your country does not have the right to exist. That would be foolish, as it does in fact exist.
Pablo
78 - Andy Marsh
Doc - really? You think I know what's taught in that church every Sunday? Apparently, you do and I'm proud of you. Yeah, maybe he didn't preach that hate every Sunday, but he did it more than once...it isn't just the 9/11 sermon...there are a few others...the AIDS thing and the govt...he's a nut! There's more, but they slip my mind. And still Obama sat there with his family MOST Sundays and listened intently.
I stopped going to church when I was about 16 because of shit I heard on Sundays! He kept going for twenty fucking years! Yeah great the church did great things...the way I remember my history books, Germany was in a deep depression before WWII. Did that make that guy that took the reins any better???
79 - Cindy D
"Sure, most people in Jail are black. Poor people in urban centers tend to be black."
Said by you Obnoxious American.
In other words, it is okay to throw poor people (including poor black people) in jail, out of proportion to the crime they commit. Why is that? Because they are poor or because they are black and poor?
You know what? This is what capitalism apparently breeds. People so blind to their own racism, classism and bigotry that they proudly proclaim its normalcy without even recognizing it.
YES, I PROVED IT...PLEASE DEBATE THE INFO IN THE LINKS I GAVE YOU.
80 - The Obnoxious American
Doc,
I am merely stating facts. In fact, I think we are all confusing class divisions with racial ones. As someone who grew up in a house with the electicity frequently turned off for lack of payment, I can attest that you don't have to be black to be poor, and you certainly don't have to be black to suffer prejudice.
It's actually the opposite of what you say, I agree that active racism still exists, and will always exist in some form or another (just ask Muslims). But systemic racism does not. It's the systemic racism that causes racial division.
Once you dismantle systemic prejudice, all that is left is the result of the prior divide. Such is the case we have now where an African American can make a realistic run for the white house (progress), but many blacks are still poor or underprivledged (artifacts of prior divide).
81 - El Bicho
If you are going to call yourself The Obnoxious American, you really should toughen up when someone calls you something you find obnoxious.
82 - Dr Dreadful
It would seem based on your posts (and not some nonsense that I dreamed up about you) that you seem to think that there is a systemic prejudice against blacks in our legal system. Care to prove that allegation? Just FYI, stats aren't proof.
Then what would be, Obnox? It's hardly fair to challenge for proof and then disqualify any data before it's even provided.
Sure, stats are tricky. But consider this. Arrest figures show that whites and blacks are arrested at a ratio of about 70-20 - as you'd expect given the makeup of the general population. So why is the prison population half black? Somewhere between the back of the cop car and the jailhouse door, something is going on.
83 - The Obnoxious American
Cindy,
It's clear you are debating with yourself. I won't defend the statements you seem to wish I was saying (i.e. suggesting I said it was "OK" if more blacks are in jail due to racism), rather than the comments I did say. You are truly a charicature of a left wing nut.
84 - Andy Marsh
Oh and Doc - it wasn't any media figure that painted the friendship between Obama and the Rev...it was Obama himself who said he was his mentor!!! So let's not blame all this on Fox news...m'kay?!??!
85 - Pablo
Obnoxious, and you sir are clearly obnoxious. I do however have respect for someone that lives up to their name, albeit obnoxious :).
86 - Cindy D
What do you mean by this?
"Sure, most people in Jail are black. Poor people in urban centers tend to be black."
If most crime is committed by white people but we put more people in prison because they come from poor (and black) neighborhoods, what meaning does that hold for you, besides being obviously okay and correct?
87 - The Obnoxious American
Doc, thanks for taking the incomprehensible and making a reasoned discussion out of it.
Are those stats of all crime? Or violent crime? Not all crimes are equal. For a real analysis, we'd need a comparison between conviction rates of whites and blacks for the same crime (and even then the same type of crime - crime of passion versus crime of greed or serial killers). Merely showing these numbers isn't proof of anything.
And it would seem to me, if there was a systemic racism in our justice system, resulting in the type of imbalance in conviction rates that you suggest, it would be very easy to prove. It's not like the south is still all fat white guys. Obama did win several southern states. That wouldn't have ever occured in a truly racist society that some here are painting the US to be(I hate what Cindy's done to the perception of our society!)
But let's put this aside for the moment. I think that this can be explained by what i termed the "artifacts of prior racial divide", is that really so far fetched? And some portion of our jail populace have been there since before our recent enlightenments.
You don't want me to quote Mark Twain again do you :>
88 - The Obnoxious American
Pablo,
Takes one to know one.
Regards,
OA
89 - Cindy D
Your comment was racist OA. What do you have to say about your point of view. You are claiming that we are somehow past the worst effects of racism. Then you make a blatantly racist and elitist comment. As if it is okay to jail the poor (and black). Notice I put poor first. Because I really think in your narrow capitalist mind that it's really poor people that it's okay to mistreat. I think their being black is really secondary to your elitist mindset.
That is as close to a compliment as you'll ever likely receive from me. I hope you recognize it. Unintentionally racist, but elitist is much better than racist elitist.
I am not twisting your words. I am quoting them.
"Sure, most people in Jail are black. Poor people in urban centers tend to be black."
90 - The Obnoxious American
You know, this whole chat brings to mind something that's been a hot issue round these parts. I am talking about the Sean Bell case.
I wasn't in the jury, won't claim to know the ins and outs of this case.
Reality check - two of the three cops involved were black. Sean Bell was at a club the cops were monitoring for drugs and prostitution. The cops tried to pull over Bell, there was resistance, a cop testified that he heard someone in the car say something to the effect of, "get the gun", the cops opened fire and 51 bullets later, all originating from the police, Sean Bell was dead, the other two in his car seriously wounded.
Al Sharpton was quick to call what happened racism. Some have termed it Driving While Black. That two of the three cops involved were black doesn't seem to matter. Sensationalism has been whipped up to an all time high.
I am not defending the cops, clearly they made a mistake. But why does it have to be viewed as racially motivated? Sean Bell didn't do the right thing either. If I am pulled over, I pull over, I am courteous to the police. I keep my hands in my lap and don't reach for the glove box without first explaining that my insurance is in there. Hence I don't generally get shot at by police.
I think it's far too common these days for some to sensationalize racism, to the chorus of self hating whites like Cindy D, when it simply doesn't exist. Again, I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, it does and is arguably a part of our DNA. But it isn't the explaination nor cause for all of the ills in the world. And I will stand by my original comment, we don't need anyone to heal any such divide in 2008.
91 - The Obnoxious American
Cindy,
Please stop being disingenuous. It's silly. You can repost one sentence out of what I said as often as you wish, one need only scroll up to see just how ridicoulous you are being.
A tip for you in future discussions, argue the idea, not the person.
And thank you for calling me elite.
92 - Cindy D
I called you elitist, not elite. This twist is a perfect example (likely lost on you as most anything that doesn't agree with you is) of your inability to comprehend anything outside of your own narrow mindset.
93 - The Obnoxious American
Cindy,
It's obvious that you've been backed into a corner over your Nazi comment. And now, like a rabid mouse, you seize upon whatever you can and laughingly try to suggest I said something when any READING of my full comment makes clear that I don't beleive racism was ok.
My post was stating reality, not approving of it.
Since you seem to be immune to reading, but you also seem to be fond of taking a sentence of mine, ignorant of the context or the message, and cast it as racist, I will repost the original comment. Try to read it this time (or scroll up to post #69:
"Sure, most people in Jail are black. Poor people in urban centers tend to be black. But no longer is there a divide in this country. What we have now is the result of a divide that at least systemically no longer exists. It will of course take many years for the effects of the divide to normalize.
I agree that when I was growing up, being white gave you a privledge. I can tell you that when I was a youth on the city streets, the cops tended to be a lot kinder to this white boy than to many of my African American friends.
In this day and age, many cops in NYC are black. Are we suggesting that they are continuing the systemic oppression of blacks? Let's be serious. And this is just one example. Same could be said for corporate opportunities, educational opportunities, etc. It's all there for any underprivledged person, white or black, should they pursue it.
I'm sure there are still klansmen somewhere out there (perhaps in some dark corners of NYC), but the difference these days is that they've been forced out of the mainstream. It is a crime to be racist now, and you will get prosecuted. So talking about a divide in 2008 is ignoring the realities of how far we've come, and is quite the opposite of the audacity of hope."
Pretty shameful of you to try and cast these comments as anything other than what they are - commentary on the state of things, recognition of how far we've come as a country, recognition of what still needs to be done.
I'll gladly debate anyone of any political persuasion with respect. But you Maam, have no respect. You come in here calling me a Nazi, then a racist. To quote a classic rap song, you betta check yaself before you wreck yaself.
94 - The Obnoxious American
Apologies for the dangling Italics, itals should have ended with (reposted for effect :>)
Pretty shameful of you to try and cast these comments as anything other than what they are - commentary on the state of things, recognition of how far we've come as a country, recognition of what still needs to be done.
I'll gladly debate anyone of any political persuasion with respect. But you Maam, have no respect. You come in here calling me a Nazi, then a racist. To quote a classic rap song, you betta check yaself before you wreck yaself.
95 - Pablo
Obnoxius said:
"You are truly a charicature of a left wing nut."
"A tip for you in future discussions, argue the idea, not the person."
Hmmm, whatever you say OB, I truly love the hypocrisy of your ilk, please keep it up.
96 - Clavos
There's nothing wrong with being an elitist.
97 - Pablo
Obnoxious said:
"gain, I'm not saying racism doesn't exist, it does and is arguably a part of our DNA."
You must be taking your marching orders from the eugenicists, most notably the Rockyfellers. Unfortunately only a fool would argue that racism exists in our DNA. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with the rest of us Obnoxious and living up to your namesake.
98 - Pablo
you ought to know Clavy.
99 - Brian aka Guppusmaximus
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."
Samuel Johnson, 1775
HA!! Quoting words from a lousy, God-fearing writer who even knocked the NAVY.
It is so fitting... In the midst of a country(Iraq) trying to free itself from the grasp of oppression & murder, we have some sort of philosopher degrading our soldiers efforts & the people who support them with this hogwash. Samuel Johnson was the same sort of pansy who didn't want to stand up for his country either and that was during the Revolution... What a shame!
What place does he have now in history other than being a second place hack to Shakespeare.
"Lies feed your judgement of others
Behold how the blind lead each other
The Philosopher
You know so much about nothing at all"
Chuck Shuldiner,1993
100 - Clavos
I do, Pablo. I'm proudly elitist.
101 - El Bicho
Being second to Shakespeare is not such a cruel fate. Much better than a metal guitarist who most people will have to look up and still won't know.
102 - Cindy D
That is what you find LEAST intelligent about the whole conversation?
Please, come back and pretend to be offended some more.
103 - Pablo
Bjork,
Yeah I know the truth sux don't it.
Unfortunately the gatekeepers will soon omit the truthful offending remark.
[Yes, unfortunately so. Unfortunately, some commenters don't respect either our comments policy or their fellow commenters.
ASSISTANT COMMENTS EDITOR]
---------------
Guppusmaximus,
As to who said the Patriotism remark, its stands on its own merit, and has never been more apt then in todays Amerika.
You said:
"In the midst of a country(Iraq) trying to free itself from the grasp of oppression & murder, we have some sort of philosopher degrading our soldiers efforts & the people who support them with this hogwash."
Unfortunately your argument does not have any merit whatsoever. First of all Iraq as you call it is nothing more than at the very least 3 distinct separate cultures, the the country as you call it was created by the Brits, not the "Iraqis", and will NEVER imho be a cohesive state. Furthermore I am of the opinion (having never been there) that the vast majority of Iraqis want the real oppressors out, the US government and its goonsquads. There are those of us Americans that do not share your my country love it or leave it, support the troops, illegal (undeclared under the supreme law of the land, war). The only hogwash here is that you are your kind have no compunction about killing over 600,000 human beings for no reason at all, other than your supreme arrogance and hubris. I dream of the day when those that did decide to invade the sovereignty of another nation, with pre-emptive, false pretense motives witll be held to account in our courts of law. I know I am a dreamer, but I will continue to dream.
104 - El Bicho
"After viewing that type of vituperation here, I will now tune out and seek intelligent discussion elsewhere."
How cute. Look who got a word-of-the-day calender for Xmas.
105 - Clavos
Gupp sez:
It is so fitting... In the midst of a country(Iraq) trying to free itself from the grasp of oppression & murder, we have some sort of philosopher degrading our soldiers efforts & the people who support them with this hogwash. Samuel Johnson was the same sort of pansy who didn't want to stand up for his country either...
I already did my "standing up," Gupp. I'm a disabled combat vet of the Vietnam war; I've earned my right to dissent, so don't come on to me with that bullshit.
And Iraq means nothing to me. The only people in Iraq who count for anything to me are the uniformed American troops.
After the useless, futile, wasteful experience I (and 500,00 others, especially the 58,000 who didn't make it back alive) had in Vietnam for no valid reason, I wouldn't fight again for this country for any reason, nor will I ever let the youngsters in my family do so.
If you don't like that, tough; you've obviously mistaken me for someone who cares.
What place does he have now in history other than being a second place hack to Shakespeare.
That alone gives Johnson a bigger place in history than anyone on this blog will ever achieve, me included.
106 - Clavos
Correction to my #108:
The figure 500,000 should have been 2,500,000.
107 - The Obnoxious American
"You must be taking your marching orders from the eugenicists, most notably the Rockyfellers. Unfortunately only a fool would argue that racism exists in our DNA. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with the rest of us Obnoxious and living up to your namesake."
Pablo,
You can stop behind a blowhard everytime. You could make your point without trying to disparage me or call me a racist.
And yes, it's quite obvious, except perhaps to your "ilk" that this is in our DNA. Thinking in evolutionary terms, isn't the fear of something different than ourselves a good survival tactic? Obviously so.
This is basic common sense. Does it excuse the history of racism in this country, no. Does it accept it, or suggest that we shouldn't change? obviously not.
But it's clear that humans (white or black or whatever) have a built in fear of things that are strange to them. In the US, this fear has manifested itself in white/black racism (it was helped along with slavery). In other cultures, the prejudice is on religious grounds, or which clan someone might be from, etc. This is all manifestations of the fear of the unknown.
Incidentally, I have several African American friends. Dated a woman who was black. I grew up in NYC remember? It's hard to grow up here and not come into contact with people of all creeds and colors. I recognize the destruction to African culture as a result of slavery, and that cost continues to this very day. I really wish Obama was a Republican, because personally I think he is a great guy, and with a real platform, I'd definitely vote for him. I wish Alan Keys was a real candidate and not a loony. But that Obama is a Democrat and an African American shouldn't mean I can't attack him just like I'd attack a white candidate (I did attack Hillary until she was no longer the frontrunner...). It's just hillarious to me when people come in my article, call me a Nazi and a racist, yet they dont know a thing about me, take a word or sentence out of context, and when I show them to be the fools that they are, they call me names as a final hurrah.
Well, I say Hurrah!
108 - Pablo
Clavos said:
"And Iraq means nothing to me. The only people in Iraq who count for anything to me are the uniformed American troops."
I wonder why that would be Clavy. What is it that you share with your fellow Americans other than your love of the constitution (cough) or McDonalds? Why is it that you would care about the fate of those wearing the uniform of the USA, who are uninformed (dumb) and not those 600 some odd thousands of men women and children that have been slaughtered? This is exactly the kind of arrogance and blind obedience to NOTHING, that I find so offensive with some of my fellow Americans. Human beings are human beings Clavy, red white and blue dont mean squat. An innocent baby is an innocent baby all around the world, and those that kill them for no reason should be held accountable.
Support the troops my ass. Oh thats right I almost forgot! They are over there protecting our Freedom (louder cough), and making our country safer (childish immature smirk for Clavy). Sure bubba.
109 - Cindy D
OA,
I took you completely in the context you intended.
But, discussing something with you is like trying to have a discussion with someone who keeps putting their fingers in their ears and saying, "la la la la I can't hear you."
It just gets irritatingly pointless.
110 - Pablo
Obnoxius,
I do not recall referring to you as a racist. I was simply pointing out that your DNA argument is absurd. The fact that some people fear outsiders could hardly be assumed to be in the DNA code, and that is what I was talking about. And the reference to taking marching orders from eugenecists was simply my way of inserting a way of letting others that do not know it, that the Rockefeller family has been supporting eugenics for almost a century. Sorry if you took offense.
111 - Cindy D
pablo,
you didnt have to actually call him a racist. he doesnt actually read what people say when he disagrees with them.
he just projects his own ideas into your comments. he only understand what people mean when he agrees with them.
keep talking to him and see if it doesnt piss you off.
112 - Clavos
I wonder why that would be Clavy. What is it that you share with your fellow Americans other than your love of the constitution (cough) or McDonalds?
I don't share much at all with Americans, Pablo, including love of the Constitution; it's a piece of paper, I don't love it, it's just there.
As for McDonalds: I'd call it pig food, except I think we should feed pigs (at least the ones we plan to eat) better food.
The GIs in the shit in Iraq I care about because we share a common sorry experience of having been duped into fighting and risking (and sometimes losing) our lives for a worthless cause.
You mistake me, Pablo. I am not a patriot, nor I do claim allegiance to just one country, which is why I quoted Johnson.
113 - Brian aka Guppusmaximus
El Bicho,
Much better than a metal guitarist who most people will have to look up and still won't know.
Still,not good enough though,huh... Always in the shadow. I would rather be un-famous than infamous.
*Pablo doesn't rate a reply because he is way off in la-la land & I don't care for people who suck off the U.N.'s teet*
Clavos,
When I said stand up for this country, it doesn't always mean grabbing a weapon. The dissent in this country towards our President during war time is just as much a pansy move as not realizing what your job was when you(in general) signed the dotted line.
I myself was in The Marines and though I never saw war, my father served in Vietnam and came back a complete f*cking mess... So, did he really come back?! And, still, I can never truly understand what it was like! But, I do know this... I'm not gonna stop standing up for my country just because alot of these dilluted weirdos tell me I'm wrong. And, I'm not gonna quite sticking up for my country because I was done wrong in the service as well. Not as bad as what you went through but it was bad enough for me!!
114 - Zedd
This election is a test on just how stupid the American public is. If Wright's comments will affect the voters, then we are indeed stupid. Especially after 8 years of George Bush.
115 - Pablo
Clavos,
Oh I know your not a patriot, that has been clear to me for some time. I just wonder why you care only about human beings that you shared a mutual experience with. If you were driving down the street and saw a person hit by a car, (providing you have not been hit by one yourself) would you just keep on driving bubba? I assume you pay taxes, if so it is YOUR money that is being spent to slaughter innocent human beings, if you do not care, it only reaffirms what I think of you anyways, and I am not surprised. I do care however, and will continue to; and if I saw that person hit by a car, I would stop. Why? Let me explain it to you. It is called humanity, empathy, and caring. It is not a liberal quality, it is a human one, and I truly feel pity for any human being that cannot empathize with another's suffering or being the victim of slaughter. So you keep on going Clavy, and dont give a shit about those that your money have killed, I will double my caring to cover your lameness.
116 - Pablo
Brian,
Thats fine, I like your characterization of me, and am glad you find my writing less than intelligent. As to the UN however, I cannot stand the organization, its founders, or its purposes. I did not write that for you Brian, as if I am in La La land, the place that you dwell in is not even worth describing. Enjoy your ignorance, I am.
117 - Clavos
Oh I know your not a patriot, that has been clear to me for some time.
When I was young and even more stupid than I am now, I was doubly a patriot, for the two countries which conferred citizenship on me.
Then, one of those governments sent me off to a war they knew we could not win, because they had no intention of winning it.
That's when I found out that I can count on the fingers of both hands those who really care about me. And my countries aren't included. Either of them.
I owe them nothing.
I can and do empathize, Pablo. I have (and care for) a seriously ill, nearly helpless wife who requires a lot of help, which I give gladly; I would cheerfully lay down my life for her.
I give to charity, volunteer at the VA hospital, and teach illiterate adults to read.
Those who care about me say I am a good husband/brother/friend to them.
But not a country, Pablo. Never a country. Not again.
118 - Pablo
Clavos,
Fair enough, however I will say it is much easier to care for your own loved ones, then for those that we never see that are being killed in our name.
I appreciate your frankness, and your humanity, that being said, I am humbly suggesting that you extend it to those that you do not personally know, as they are as human as you or me, and deserved to be treated humanely and with dignity.
119 - Dr Dreadful
Andy #84:
Huh???
Is there another doctor in the house?
I don't recall saying that it was the media who had painted the relationship between Obama and his pastor. I'm damn sure I didn't mention Fox News.
I choose my words very carefully.
120 - Ruvy
It doesn't excuse Cindy's way out of line comments about me, her trivializing of what it means to be a Nazi, nor the amount of backpeddling she's done since then to avoid admitting that her comments were shameful, and in bad taste.
Obnoxious?,
Try arguing over at Desicritics. There they have an editor who chants like a mantra, "the new Nazis are the Jews" and who calls himself a "poet", a woman who tosses around $50 words and thinks she is a scholar. Cindy is nothing compared to these two - who are in reality vicious and mean, and who peddle lies like they were used cars on a dunghill. And they have an entire amen corner to go with them, including an idiot who thinks that because he married a Jewish woman, he is free of bigotry.
By comparison, Cindy is a bit insensitive and somewhat ignorant.
It's like I keep telling you, boychick. If you want to wrap yourself in a foreign flag in exile (the Stars and Stripes), you're just going to have to tolerate the standard amount of Jew-hatred you're going to get in a country in exile. In addition, as is evident from this comment thread, you're going to have to carry the cross of American racism on your back every damned time you raise the subject.
As I've told you many times, you're not obnoxious at all. You're just offended by the remarks of a bigoted black prick.
Boychick, America is just chock full of bigoted black pricks. Reverend Wrong just happens to have a public platform so he can fart out his viewpoint for all to hear.
As for the National Press Club interview, you've been paying attention to all the wrong lines (as usual). This is the money shot.
If you were familiar with the shit that certain "Torah sages" pull in this country, shilling for money for their yeshivót, and taking bribes all over the place, you'd have recognized that someone is paying the Reverend Wrong to pee all over Obama's shoes.
That's the real story in this article, Obnoxious?.
Oh, by the way. If you want to read someone who is truly obnoxious, read over the older articles here, looking for the remarks of a certain SHARK. You can learn an awful lot about being entertaining, as well as obnoxious.
And just for the record, eventually I filed his teeth, too.
121 - Andy Marsh
Doc - from your comment #35 earlier...The logical gymnastics Obama's opponents have been using to try and paint his friendship with Wright as some kind of fatal character flaw would be comical if they weren't so indicative of the sad sick way American politics seems to work these days.
Now I'll admit that I read into this a bit...but still, it's not any of his opponents that are painting this friendship, Obama himself said Wright was his mentor...and I'm sorry, but I don't spend any considerable time with people I don't like and i surely wouldn't sit in a place that gives them a forum to voice opinions I don't agree with for 20 years...
I mean, come on, think about it...how do you suppose folks would act if McCain or even Clinton for that matter were friends with David Duke???
Pretending that his friendships of twenty years don't say anything about his character is just...well...I hate to say it..but, in my opinion, it's a little ignorant!
And yes..I do think his friendship with a racist pastor for twenty years is a "fatal character flaw". But I'm just being a little "clingy".
122 - Doug Hunter
"And yes..I do think his friendship with a racist pastor for twenty years is a 'fatal character flaw'."
If it were a white candidate with racist mentor or who went to a white supremacist church it is 100% guaranteed this relationship would be a killer, endind his candidacy immediately. Being 'disadvantaged' by his minority status we hold Obama to a lower standard.
There are tons of examples of this, another obvious one is the voting patterns. Whites are routinely chastised and implicated as racists in the media for voting 60-40 against Obama. Blacks are allowed to vote 95% for Obama based only on skin color and it's glossed over (again if whites in one single precicnt anywhere voted 95% against Obama it would be simply unfathomable, but would be lambasted in the media as a bunch of backwoods racist rednecks)
123 - Andy Marsh
Doug - Are you being clingy too???
124 - zingzing
obnoxious: "It's funny because you cling to the idea that the US's goal should be to improve the world, but in the same post, you make fun of the results of these attempts"
israel is a great example of where we put our own interests ahead of what was really best for the world. no one involved thought that sticking a modern state of israel in the middle of palestine was going to stabalize the region. it's called a buffer.
you say something about 20/20 hindsight and navel gazing. well, i'm staring at my navel right now and i tell you this: the united states has fouled up nearly every attempt it has made a nation-building. we can't do it right. so we shouldn't do it IN THE FUTURE. that's called foresight. or learning from past mistakes.
"Being above partisanship is the very centerpiece of Obama's campaign."
that's a reaction to the complete cock-up that is bush's attempt to "reach across the isle," which is the same damn thing that obama is saying with "being above partisanship."
"Rather than tell us not to follow our own foreign policy, the UN could have ensured that we didnt go to war with Saddam by removing greed and corruption from it's programs. But it didn't."
so now we went to iraq because of the UN's "greed and corruption?" i thought it was to "stop terrorism" or "get rid of iraq's wmds" or something. what the fuck are you talking about?!
"But to sit there and complain that we went into Iraq out of some gung ho unilateralism is ignoring the realities at the time and playing into the classic liberal argument that Bush is evil, that the GOP is evil, that Cheney is Darth Vader, etc. It's all nonsense."
WHAT?! are you kidding? how we went into iraq is the very definition of gung ho unilateralism. we went in without the support of a majority of nations, and no other nation would have even touched the place if we hadn't made it some "with us or against us" bullshit. you have to be kidding yourself.
125 - Dr Dreadful
Now I'll admit that I read into this a bit...
You sure did:
it's not any of his opponents that are painting this friendship, Obama himself said Wright was his mentor
I never said the friendship wasn't real. I said that a lot of bullshit was being read into the friendship in an attempt to reflect it badly upon Obama.
how do you suppose folks would act if McCain or even Clinton for that matter were friends with David Duke
You're seriously putting Jeremiah Wright up there on a footing with David Duke? Come on.
Pretending that his friendships of twenty years don't say anything about his character is just...well...I hate to say it..but, in my opinion, it's a little ignorant!
Putting words in my mouth (fingertips?) again. Of course they do. It's just that to me, this one says something a bit different than it does to you, obviously.