Much to the chagrin of Obama supporters, as well as to the scorn of most normal people everywhere, Reverend Wright seems to be on some kind of speaking tour. It must be Christmas for the GOP because this is the gift that keeps on giving.
When asked by a smirking Donna Lienwand, VP of the National Press Club, about his now famous post 9/11 sermon, he tried to explain that he was taken out of context. The "chickens coming home to roost" comment, he said, was quoting the Iraqi Ambassador, as if that made repeating it in a religious fervor following the 9/11 attacks okay. He then said:
...to quote the Bible, 'Be not deceived, God is not mocked, for whatsoever you sow that you shall also reap'. Jesus says do unto others as you would have them do unto you. You cannot do terrorism on other people and expect it never to come back on you. Those are biblical principles, not Jeremiah Wright bombastic principles.
Not quite backing away from his post 9/11 sermon, is it?
Asked whether he was unpatriotic, a question that for some reason, seemed to elicit giggles from the NPC audience, he suggested the accusation was unfair and that those who thought that only listened to sound bytes. He then cited his military service as compared to Vice President Cheney.
Asked, "What is your relationship with Louis Farrakhan. Do you agree with and respect his views, including his most racially divided views?"
His meandering response started by trying to parse the difference between Zionism and Judaism:
Where Louis said twenty years ago that Zionism, not Judaism, is a gutter religion, he was talking about the same thing United Nations resolutions say, the same thing now that President Carter is being vilified for, and Bishop Tutu is being vilified for, and everybody wants to paint me as if I am anti semitic because of what Louis Farrakhan said twenty years ago.
There are multiple layers of offense associated with this comment alone. Zionism is the belief that Jews should return to their ancient homeland of Israel. To suggest that the desire for a Jewish Israel equates to some separate religion, not to mention a "gutter religion," is highly offensive, especially considering the environment during which the creation of the state of Israel occurred.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Pablo
A typical neo con zionist argument that is based on half truths and falsehoods. According to the author's opinion, if one is to criticize Israel they are in face anti-semitic. An absurd argument on its face, and is almost invariably used by people such as the author's ilk to defame those that criticize the inhumane treatment of occupied peoples in the middle east. Furthermore there are literally thousands of citizen's of Israel that are fundementally opposed to Zionism that are in fact jews. So what does that make them Obnoxious?
I suggest that the author google "Haredi", "Satmar Hasidim", and "Neturei Karta". These are Jews inside Israel that are fundamentally opposed to Zionism.
On a side note it is interesting to me as a coinspiracy theorist that the Balfour Declaration was sent to Lord Rotshchild, and the following was taken verbatim from the Wikepedia article about it.
"In his posthumously published 1982 book The Anglo-American Establishment, Georgetown University history professor Carroll Quigley revealed that the Balfour Declaration was actually drafted by Lord Alfred Milner, who was the head of the Rhodes-Milner Round Table Groups that Cecil John Rhodes called for in his will to be "Churches for the extension of the British Empire." Milner was the trustee of Rhodes' will, while both Milner and Rhodes were self-described British race-patriots. The recipient of the Balfour Declaration, Lord Rothschild, was also a close friend of Rhodes and was at an earlier time the trustee of Rhodes' will.
Quigley wrote:
"This declaration, which is always known as the Balfour Declaration, should rather be called 'the Milner Declaration,' since Milner was the actual draftsman and was apparently, its chief supporter in the War Cabinet. This fact was not made public until 21 July 1936. At that time Ormsby-Gore, speaking for the government in Commons, said, 'The draft as originally put up by Lord Balfour was not the final draft approved by the War Cabinet. The particular draft assented to by the War Cabinet and afterwards by the Allied Governments and by the United States. . .and finally embodied in the Mandate, happens to have been drafted by Lord Milner. The actual final draft had to be issued in the name of the Foreign Secretary, but the actual draftsman was Lord Milner."
Funny how the Milner Group and the Rhodes trust always seem to find their way into these world events. I am sure Dave will slumber along soon and disparage Quigley, as that is his forte, being the shill that he is.
The Milner Group, Chatham House, the CFR, and the Rhodes Trust all let by the most powerful family of the last 300 years the Rothschilds. Oh yeah thats right I am paranoid and making it up!
Smirk for YOU Clavos.
2 - Pablo
Oh and by the way I cannot stand Obama, that being said I do like the Rev, he has spunk, and I agree wholeheartedly with his statements. I saw a great video yesterday of Obama praising Brzesnski in the most flattering of terms. Obama is nothing more than the left version of the New World Order as are is his opponents, both Hilary and creepy McCain.
You think you have a choice but you don't, they all work for the same family. Why even last week two of the leading Rothschilds came out publicly one for McCain and one for Hilary. Hows them apples?
3 - Ruvy
Obnoxious? quoting the reverend Wrong: "Where Louis [Farrakhan] said twenty years ago that Zionism, not Judaism, is a gutter religion, he was talking about the same thing United Nations resolutions say, the same thing now that President Carter is being villified for, and Bishop Tutu is being villified for, and everybody wants to paint me as if I am anti semitic because of what Louis Farrakhan said twenty years ago."
and then continuing...To say that Zionism is a "gutter religion" is to say that Judaism itself is a gutter religion....Any anyone who would share or defend the view that this belief, Zionism, is a gutter religion, is anti-semitic.
Boychick,
You want to live in exile, this is what you should expect. You want to wrap yourself in a foreign flag, this is what you should expect. You and every single other Jew living in exile, including the two sons of Ehud Olmert, y"sh. The man that John McCain supports so enthusiastically raised two draft dodgers and a lesbian who condemns the ideology of her own country as murder.
Wake up!
A couple of nights ago, while riding from Jerusalem to Ma'alé Levoná, I met a man who had immigrated here from Canada in 2001. His reason for doing so, in his own words was, "I was tired of looking over my shoulder."
Sounds paranoid, right? Tell that to Ben Ami Kadish, an old man in a nursing home being hauled in for "espionage" against the United States on behalf of the State of Israel.
Larry Franklin is sitting in jail because of trumped up charges against two AIPAC employees of espionage also. Jonathan Pollard, who ought to have been released from prison some fifteen years ago, rots in jail and will continue to rot there, while real traitors against the United States walk free.
You are right that Carter is a Jew-hater, a moral midget who accepted money from the Saudis (including the bin-Laden family) for his "institute" and is now spouting out their hatred for them, wrapping himself in an American flag coated in peanut oil. But when Ambassador Gillerman of Israel called Carter for what he is, who should come riding to the old peanut farmer's rescue but the AMERICAN State Department?
Dummy!! (or is it Dhimmi!!) Can't you smell the coffee? Who do you think is being basted for the next round of condemnation? YOU ARE!! You and all the other American Jews who do not denounce Israel. If the Bush State Department rushes to defend a Jew-hater like Carter, do you think a McCain State Department will do any less?
At least with Barack Hussein Obama you can see the hatred of Jews and of Israel shining in the eyes and off the whites or the teeth of all those who are close to him. You can see the truth. With McCain, all you see are glad-handing lies that get undercut with arrests and intimidation. If you persist in feeding yourself with the delusion that Jews are "safe" in their American exile, the truth, when it hits your butt, is going to be ugly and painful indeed. At least here, in the mountains of Samaria, you can get a glimmer of the truth as it faces you, presenting both danger and opportunity.
For you, boychick. A classic restatement of your article.
4 - Ruvy
What the hell, Obnoxious?, let's throw in this little tidbit for you to think about.
"Zionism" was a term invented by English theologians some three centuries ago to describe the concept in the Bible that Jews desired to/should/would return to Israel. It was never used in JEWISH writings on the subject until Tuvia (Theodore) Herzl came along. Now, Pablo (Paul) takes the point of view that there should be no Israel, using (or misusing) the views of the Satmar Hassidim, the Neturei Karta (who run to Ahmadinejad to kiss his
buttbeard), and the Hareidim, who warned for a long time about the dangers of supporting the State. When I watched Jewish soldiers and police kicking Jews out of their homes in Gush Qatif three years ago, I realized the truth of the warnings of the Hareidim.The State, having accomplished its goal of putting an anti-Torah régime in power, is now swallowing its own child, systematically destroying the country at the orders of its masters in Washington.
But all this does not change the fact that "Zionism", was a both a colonial project of the British, which is what Paul emphasizes above, and a movement to bring home our people in preparation for Redemption - a fact which secular Jews like you do their best to ignore.
This is a classical Kabbalistic style event - the Light of Redemption coming from an evil Husk of Darkness.
Obnoxious?, I care little for what Paul believes, even though he and I share a number of perspectives on the world and how it works. Where it comes to our resettlement home, I look at the Light of Redemption, while he sees only the evil Husk of colonialism. By attempting to wrap yourself in a foreign flag, you and most North American Jews will blind yourselves to this reality - both the duality of the nature of rise of the Jewish entity in the Land, which reflects the Jewish messianic concept of Good arising from Evil and the more existential and teleological reality that the Zionist régime, having accomplished its purpose, is now destroying the State by its actions.
5 - Michael J. West
Obnoxious, let's skip for a second the fact that you set this piece up as explaining why people would be crazy to vote for Obama, yet barely mentioned his name let alone demonstrated he shares even one of the Reverend's ideas.
Let's skip all that and go right to the end of your piece.
Wright ended with this gem:
"I am not running for office, I am open to being Vice President"
Scary, but the crowd cheered wildly.
The crowd LAUGHED. Because it was a joke, Obnoxious. Which, if you saw the video, you are well aware of. Yet your implication here is that you thought he was seriously suggesting himself as a vice presidential candidate.
Assuming you intended that implication, it was quite dishonest of you.
Fortunately, even if Obama did get elected President, and even if WRIGHT got the Veep, you'd support them, right? Because you "refuse to be ashamed of your country and its actions," apparently regardless of what they may be?
6 - troll
Ruvy - you should not be trusted with code...neither htmlical nor biblical
7 - Clavos
Fortunately, even if Obama did get elected President, and even if WRIGHT got the Veep, you'd support them, right? Because you "refuse to be ashamed of your country and its actions," apparently regardless of what they may be?
i.e., "My country, right or wrong."
That's why I always reserve the right to be ashamed of whatever country I'm claiming as "mine" this week...
8 - Christopher Rose
troll, so true!
9 - troll
The fact is that anyone who is against the state of Israel is against the Jews that live there, as well as Jews everywhere. Any anyone who would share or defend the view that this belief, Zionism, is a gutter religion, is anti-semitic. (Notice the period).
'noxious - your absolutist 'argument' supports antisemitism.....imo
10 - Christopher Rose
All religions are gutter religions as they are based on lies, albeit possibly well intentioned lies. Religion is the enemy of humanity.
11 - Clavos
Religion is the enemy of humanity.
Humanity is the enemy of humanity.
Understandably.
12 - The Obnoxious American
Thanks for the stern talking to and explanations. I expected to get some crap for saying that people who are anti zion are anti Jew. I think you missed a crucial statement that I made in this piece and perhaps I should have used bold to make sure this was not missed:
"There is no theoretical argument about the state of Israel anymore. Jews live there now."
Ruvy, Pablo, et al, this is the point. You are having a debate of the last 70 years. Israel exists now. If people want to debate ancient history they are welcome to it, but that's what it is.
Israel exists today. To try and temper what Farrakhan said as being merely anti zionist, is an excersize in the ultimate parse. Sorry, but there is no zionism anymore, but there are Jews living in a state that is their ancient homeland, one that the powers that be decided to give to them.
Each time you allow there to be a debate on this issue, there is a debate on this issue. But the debate is over. It is what it is. And the fact remains that to chastise zionism is to chastize Jews, especially out of the mouths of these people. Are any of you really going to buy that Farrakhan actually likes the Jews but just hates the effort to create Israel? That's laughable.
Mr. West,
I did see the video. In real time. Had you read the article you would have known this (my repeated references to Lienwand's smirking to wit). Some of the audience was laughing, some were cheering. The tone of the crowd was definitely supportive of Wright.
If you want to try and minimize the sentiment that was going on at the NPC of all places, that's your right. I think it's worth noting if the National Press Club applauds a man who said "G-d **** America" 5 days after 9/11. I think it's notable if they giggled when he was asked about his patriotism (in his case especially, it's no laughing matter).
I especially think this is notable in terms of Obama, who claimed "Not to be in church that day" because it's clear that anytime Reverend Wright speaks, his comments are of the unsavory nature. These comments were made just YESTERDAY, and yet the Democratic frontrunner for the highest office in the land hasn't seen fit to actually renounce this man, only the comments he made on that tape.
I am starting to really believe that Obama is truly change we can believe in. Not necessarily change we want however.
13 - Lee Richards
Michael is correct: there's nothing in this piece that supports the supposed topic of it.
I think you need to be only mildly deluded to vote for Obama, but close to certifiable to really want either of the other two candidates.
14 - The Obnoxious American
"Michael is correct: there's nothing in this piece that supports the supposed topic of it."
The title is "Reverend Wright at the National Press Club." Not sure what you percieved as the "supposed topic" but this piece delivers everything you'd expect given it's title.
Is it that I am drawing conclusions about Obama because of this? Well so is the rest of the country. And rightfully so, given Obama's refusal to actually deal with this issue head on. No, Obama's race speech wasn't it. It was a well delivered speech, and it drove conversations about race (although, as Dan Miller's recent article points out, the discussion on race is a bit remedial in 2008). Obama has never really explained his association to Wright in terms that are acceptable to the majority of Americans, hence why this keeps coming up.
15 - zingzing
i for one, don't give a damn about rev. wright. nor do i really care about obama any more. i don't even want to think about them together (or in the same thought). i'm sick to death of this election and everyone involved. shit, just by being relatively silent, mccain is starting to look good. not that i'd vote for him, but he's the one least on my nerves right now.
as for what rev. wright has to say... i wouldn't, if i were him, put it in the ways he has put it... that being said, the people who plotted and executed 9/11 were certainly pushed to do it by something. maybe there's some delusional "america made us what we are (we had nothing to do with it)" junk going on, but it certainly was our actions/tomfoolery in the middle east that made them look to us as a target.
we mucked about in a place we didn't belong, and 9/11 is what we got. there may not be a completely direct correlation between the two, but they are related. so, if not "god damn america," something damned america, or a part therein, that day.
16 - Cindy D
You'd make a great Nazi Obnoxious.
17 - Andy Marsh
Gotta like that...someone telling a jew he'd make a great nazi...can't wait for that rebuttal!!!
18 - Clavos
There's no such thing as a great Nazi; there aren't even any mediocre ones.
They're somewhere below toxic bacteria on the evolutionary scale, along with Islamic Jihadists and patriots of any persuasion.
19 - The Obnoxious American
Cindy,
I think you missed that notice above the posting form that says personal attacks are NOT allowed.
That said, calling anyone a Nazi, other than actual Nazi's who murdered people in concentration camps, is an insult not just to me but to the memory of all those who died at their hands. You should be ashamed of yourself. I'm sure you won't be given the casuality that you threw that term around. I'm guessing you probably call a number of people Nazi's even though they'd never try and murder entire sects of humans. For shame.
20 - troll
so...whose going to point out that Cindy didn't actually call 'noxious a nazi but only suggested that he'd fit right in by which what she meant we can only imagine - ?
21 - Cindy D
OA-
I didn't call you a Nazi. I wasn't attacking you either. Simply pointing out something about my perception of you, doesn't make what I said an attack. I was entirely serious.
What I said has to do with the brand of "patriotism" you seem to practice. The worst flavor--blind patriotism. You were accidentally born an American. My understanding of the way you think makes me believe that if you were accidentally born in Germany during Hitler's rule, you would be a great Nazi. Defending your country whilst disparaging any critical examination of what it actually does.
Note to Clavos: Let's not be silly. Your understanding of English will allow you to understand my meaning of "great" in the sense that I used it. Lest you argue that someone might think the "Great Fire of London" was a good fire.
But this is all related to my thinking about patriotism as a whole. Is there a patriotism that would allow love of one's country without crossing over into blind support of one's government?
Does patriotism necessarily hold that those within your nation are somehow more relevant or better than those outside? Can this possible be a "truth?"
The problem with patriotism, as I see it practiced by those who claim to be patriotic, is that it seems to require turning off one's critical thinking faculty. If we can't think critically about something, ipso facto, we can't think realistically about it--we are thinking in the realm of fantasy.
If "we are the best" by patriotic definition--we will fail (as we do) to see what might be better about others. If patriotism requires we love our nation blindly, then patriotism requires we take a step outside reality and base our decisions and opinions on fantasy. How can that be good?
If we are never wrong (above criticism), then we are not wrong no matter how heinous our acts. That is why blind patriots would make great Nazis.
The best type of government would be designed by people who were very critical of their government.
In this way, I think "patriotism," as it is widely practiced by "obnoxious" and "ugly" Americans, is destructive and one of the main things that keeps us mediocre.
22 - Cindy D
hehe, I will troll :)
23 - The Obnoxious American
You're right, she didn't call me a Nazi, but she suggested that I had all of the personality traits, that i was Nazi-like. Either way, it doesn't change the fact that it was insulting to me and anyone who might have been impacted by real Nazis.
Real Nazi's engaged in genocide, tried to kill Jews, Blacks, Gays, etc. I just happen to think Obama's pastor is an idiot, and that Obama should have done a better job of disavowing his pastor.
When you equate me with a Nazi, you lower the meaning of the word Nazi. All of a sudden a Nazi is just a guy with strong feelings. Let's never forget what the Nazi's did. Let's not trivialize the crimes against humanity by Nazi's by suggesting someone with a strong (or Republican) viewpoint is an equivalent.
24 - bliffle
Wasting time discussing Wright helps to assure that you won't address the real issues of this election. So once again you will vote out of ignorance and based on prejudices and whims. And meanwhile people who DO want the candidates to address issues and develop policy will be frustrated by this smookescreen. Bah.
25 - Andy Marsh
I have a question...whatever happened to critisize in private...praise in public...isn't that what good leaders do? That's the way I was taught...you have a problem with someone or something, you take it to the side and handle it...
Bitching about your country, or blaming your country and it's leaders for everything that's wrong with the world is just as bad as blindly following...
Making blanket statements about 9/11 being our fault or AIDS being developed by your country to kill it's people is way over the line and not productive...to say the least and unpatriotic as well.
And one last thing...to say...you'd make a great asshole is just as bad as saying...you're an asshole. Just to prove my point, I'm gonna say it at tomorrow mornings meeting here at work, just to prove a point...hope I get fired, I'd hate to think my office might be a terrorist target or something.