Black Liberation Theology is likely to play a crucial part in the general election campaign, and it should.
It is very likely that Senator Obama will soon be the Democrat nominee for President, and that if he is elected Senator Clinton will go home to bake cookies and tend to her chores as Secretary of something or other. The choice is, therefore, probably between Senators Obama and McCain. According to Rupert Murdoch, the Democrats will win by a landslide. He may well be correct, unless Senator Obama manages the Clintonesque task of shooting himself in the foot while holding it firmly in his mouth.…
Article comments
76 - Clavos
Doc,
#75 gets my vote for funniest comment of the week.
I'm still laughing!!
77 - Baronius
"What I heard coming out of that Roman Catholic priest's mouth was totally counter to everything the Church teaches. The man should be defrocked."
Clavos, I saw that Cardinal George of Chicago has asked Father Pfleger to "step back from his obligations". The cardinal's announcement goes on,
"Fr. Pfleger does not believe this to be the right step at this time. While respecting his disagreement, I have nevertheless asked him to use this opportunity to reflect on his recent statements and actions in the light of the Church’s regulations for all Catholic priests. I hope that this period will also be a time away from the public spotlight and for rest and attention to family concerns."
78 - Zedd
Gentlemen,
You all KNOW that you know little about African American life. What are you arguing. If the idea is that you don't understand, what's to argue.
If the idea is that you are arrogant about your understanding of EVERYONE else because of White supremacy, which you cant help, then why would you say, but I do know and understand better than Blacks about how to discuss their challenges. I do know BETTER what the REALLY mean.
Not one question has been posed YET boys. Get to it.
Think all four of you are Whitish, why would you KNOW. What are you arguing about exactly? Is it that you FEEL you know? Is it you SENSE that you know? Better you, (best guess) you believe you SHOULD know because of who you are and what the subject is about. Sorry, you are wrong. Now ask.
79 - Baronius
Zedd, I don't know if you were talking to me, but I'll tell you this much: if a person were talking about how much he hated Germany in 1960, he'd be a lousy choice for Chancellor.
80 - Zedd
True. None of these men are running for President. Did you miss that? They are men of the cloth. Their JOB is to admonish society; not just Satan worshipers, and silly rock lyrics. They get to highlight oppressive elements in the society and speak boldly about them whether society likes it or not. It's their job. You missed that too.
What you want them to be is political and play the opinion poll game. For a minister, THAT is evil.
If you would have seen Jesus demolishing the vendor booths in front of the synagoge, you would have branded him with the same stroke as you are these gentlemen. Jesus defied the Pharisees and with passion (anger) healed on a day when the law said not to. God Himself gets angry.
So get over it and try to understand what racism is so that you are no longer acting it out without knowing it.
This nation is build on denial about racism. It is our fabric; one of the basic elements of who we are. It needs to stop. Judging from these comments, it is deeeeeeep. God bless you guys. Buckle down.
81 - Zedd
Clavos
“In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.”
I suppose this guy should be excommunicated too.
Zing:
"i don't care if wright hates this country or despises white people. shit, sometimes this country and white people deserve it. but, for fuck's sake! if he ruins obama's chances with this crap, i'll be mighty pissed at him."
Can you be cloned?
Now... If America doesn't vote for a good President because of Wrights comments, they are not ready for real diversity, they are dumb, they don't deserve a good President.
Also, Obama is just as White as he is Black, actually more White... Let's not get carried away. We will have a Black and White President.
Just because people have decided to see this person Obama for being just a man and not an inferior whatever, doesn't mean we get to stop dealing with real issues that affect America. The fact that it is an issue that we finally see someone who is Black is being capable of leading says we have some MAJOR problems. We are ill Zing. Racism is what we are. The signers declared liberation and Democracy while in deny about the people they owned. We are still in denial. America has functioned under denial since it's conception and doesn't know how to be anything else. When people say something, it really feels as if they are disturbing our fabric, and they are. We need to be something different and that is difficult. Obama's candidacy wont cure that but its a step.
82 - Zedd
The errors above have to do with editing then changing my mind, then forgetting to change the correction... in other words, oops!
83 - RJ Elliott
#68
Clavos,
Wow, man. That was deep. Great comment.
(And I'm not being a smart ass at all here, either, which is a rarity for me.)
Were you an English Lit major? (When you used the word "milieu" I knew that you weren't speaking from ignorance here...)
So tell me: What was your academic interest as a youth?
84 - RJ Elliott
#78
I'm not trying to pick a fight, but...
Is Zedd like M*c D*va's less-intelligent cousin or something?
At least M*c D*va's hateful and offensive Black Nationalist rants were generally well-written... :-/
85 - Clavos
@#83,
Sorry, RJ, I've been away from my 'puter most of the evening.
Thanks for the kind words. I was an English major, with a minor in writing. I still enjoy poetry (reading, not writing; as a poet I suck), and reading prose, as well as a little writing, mostly here on BC.
86 - Zedd
No need to break codes. Ask questions.
87 - Zedd
Doc,
Not sure where the personal "attacks" keep coming from and how they serve the discussion. Do they help you advance your knowledge or expand your thinking capability? Are you simply having fun with the jabs or is it passive aggression?
The only suggestion that I have is that you go to your local Community College and take a Critical Thinking class, perhaps even a Logic class. You may even desire to take things further. However Critical Thinking is a good place to wet the appetite. Once you have, please don't feel embarrassed about the comments that you have made to me. You are a nice guy, take the class, it will change your life and open the window to an expanded way of processing ideas. However let me warn you, if you understand the class, and actually "get it", you will run into a problem in that many people will respond to you the way you keep responding to me. You too will have to ignore the illogical mish mash (not nec on this thread) as I do.
88 - Jordan Richardson
You've set the bar pretty high for the rest of us, Zedd. For that, I applaud your logical understanding of the dialectic methodology and your relentless pursuit of the asking of questions.
89 - Zedd
Jordan,
It's important for me to be balanced and to be understood. I am working on that.
90 - Dr Dreadful
Zedd,
It's not so much this particular thread - I agree with your position here more than with that of most other commenters. My issue with you is what happens when you are confronted with vigorous, well-argued logical positions from your opponents. In those cases you invariably retreat behind ad hominem attacks, obnoxious condescension and obfuscatory language, and declare yourself the winner by dint of being an intellectual giant wrestling with pygmies. You seem to hope that by doing so you will convince your opponents (or perhaps yourself?) that they are no match for you.
You assume a lot - such as that I haven't taken critical thinking courses. If you have, and your grasp of the dialectic is as masterful as you seem to think it is, then I'm at a loss to understand why it is you argue the way you do. What course did you take where you were taught that belittling your opponents is a valid argumentation tactic? Most of us can get past that, but what makes you most difficult is that your style is not clear and it's not incisive. Perhaps you just need to work on your written English a bit, but it just comes across as... well, illogical.
91 - Baronius
I dunno, Dread. I've been arguing with liberals on this site for a while now, and while Zedd's positions are bolder, her style isn't much at odds with the average. The tendency to celebrate after a perceived rhetorical victory is pretty common around here. She's condescending - less so than me, but I set the bar pretty high.
It seems like the only time anyone objects to her style is when she's dismaying a liberal. Like when she writes against gay marriage. Her writing doesn't change, but suddenly it elicits all sorts of criticism. The left has never been able to deal with dissent among its ranks.
92 - Andy Marsh
I guess we can't understand Zedd any better than we can the preachers at Trinity?!??! Might as well not even talk to black people anymore...I'll never be able to understand them anyway...
maybe we can get the "Beav's" mom from airplane to translate for us....
93 - Andy Marsh
I guess we can't understand Zedd any better than we can the preachers at Trinity?!??! Might as well not even talk to black people anymore...I'll never be able to understand them anyway...
94 - Druxxx
Alright Zedd here are some questions.
Can you name for me some specific policies or societal issues that block some ones ability to be considered a success in the county based on their race?
How much of a role do you see ones born economic status playing when it comes to becoming successful in this country?
Success is in the eye of the beholder. So if a person aspires to be a drug dealer, and they manage to stay out of jail and or the morgue, I would consider that a success.
Do you see poverty being self perpetuating for any race or just African Americans?
Is America moving in the right direction in regards to race?
Please read this article and tell me what you think.
95 - Jordan Richardson
It seems like the only time anyone objects to her style is when she's dismaying a liberal. Like when she writes against gay marriage. Her writing doesn't change, but suddenly it elicits all sorts of criticism. The left has never been able to deal with dissent among its ranks.
"Lefts," "rights," and us "middles" all pretty much disagreed with her concepts in that discussion, though.
96 - Dr Dreadful
Well, Baronius, Clavos is hardly a liberal (well, he is, but with a capital L - not as the term is principally used in the US these days!), but he's expressed such exasperation with Zedd and her approach on these threads that he for the most part will no longer even debate with her.
97 - Zedd
DRUXX,
Can you name for me some specific policies or societal issues that block some ones ability to be considered a success in the county based on their race?
- Attitudes and perceptions
How much of a role do you see ones born economic status playing when it comes to becoming successful in this country?
Success is in the eye of the beholder. So if a person aspires to be a drug dealer, and they manage to stay out of jail and or the morgue, I would consider that a success.
- Not sure if you are looking for stats. But overall, economics plays a significant role.
Do you see poverty being self perpetuating for any race or just African Americans?
- Neither
Is America moving in the right direction in regards to race?
- Yes but too slowly
98 - Zedd
Doc,
We do agree most of the time.
You say that I dodge "well-argued logical positions from your opponents". The problem is that NO THEY ARE NOT. I realise that they may seem cogent but the comments are usually irrelevant to the topic and are simple rants. The people do not ask questions they just respond to what they think I am saying. They are wrong so there is nothing to respond to.
Example:
I say, "there is no biological basis for thumb sucking."
Zedd you think people should not be comforted.
--------
As for the attacks, I don't think you realise that after days of reading that I advocate the most odd ball stuff and having different people chime in to yell at me based on the wrong assertion that was made by a poster that it gets old. After a while is just "you are dumb", done! Cause it's true and I've been too embarrassed to say it.
99 - Clavos
The good thing about banging your head against a stone wall?
It sure feels good when you stop...
100 - Dr Dreadful
Example:
I say, "there is no biological basis for thumb sucking."
Zedd you think people should not be comforted.
Zedd, this is exactly the kind of response that exasperates us. You've cherry-picked an example for its intellectual weakness while disregarding stronger ones.
I realize that there have been some adversaries of yours (Jet comes to mind) who responded in this way to your claim about homosexuality (I presume this is the discussion you're alluding to), but there were also others who addressed and refuted your claim directly. You don't have to agree with them, but you should acknowledge that you're not the only one who can argue around here.
101 - Zedd
Doc,
I am being sincere.
I enjoy a good debate. I am on this site because I am looking for something interesting to discuss and learn. I am not afraid of throwing myself into a good tête-à-tête. I REALLY enjoy it. I have not encountered any dialogue which has intimidated me. Graham challenged me and I LOVED it. I looked forward to his contributions because I was challenged to think. However, I agreed with much of what he had to say. Because he was so deep, I had to ask him to be patient with me while I processed what he was saying, then where he was going. It was fun.
102 - Dr Dreadful
Not sure what happened to Graham. I know he was pretty deeply immersed in his university studies. There was also some idiot stalking and threatening him here over some imagined slight to Israel in one of his articles.
Hope he pops up again one of these days.
103 - RJ Elliott
#92
Andy,
Oh, how I laughed... ;)
104 - Zedd
Druxx,
I read the article. Are we saying that Blacks are working harder than they did in years past or that America is recognizing their efforts more? Are we saying America is good because it is doing a better job at recognizing Blacks' effort or that it needs to simply recognize peoples efforts regardless of race? Are we saying that Blacks should be happy that their effort is BETTER recognized? Should that be insulting?
105 - Andy Marsh
thank you RJ...I'm here all week!
106 - Clavos
Don't forget to tip your waitresses...