Take solace in the fact that humanity is on the march. The million dollar question is: will it continue?
No reasonable person would dispute that a just state or its laws must rest on moral foundations. Never mind the circularity of the claim (since the term “just” is already a moral term and therefore highly suggestive of the argued-for connection). What is of greater interest is the derivative character of our laws from morals, complicated as it is by the element of historicity. The recent controversy surrounding the release of the torture memos is a case in point.…
Article comments
26 - Ruvy
Progress, Roger? If I could afford a new computer, I'd spit my coffee at the screen!
Humans are still the same brutes and savages they were 3,300 years ago when Moses shlepped two stones down from the top of the Mountain of G-d - only to see his flock worshiping a golden calf, and chasing each other to see who they could sacrifice to the golden calf first!
You haven't learned anything moral in the last 3,300 years. You live longer, so you can fuck more and be less faithful to your spouses, rape more, murder more, cheat each other more, sell each other into slavery more, exploit each other more. And I forgot, you can commit more genocide, and threaten each more with genocide.
There is no solace in that.
What a pack of shit!
27 - roger nowosielski
I suppose in the biblical times, Ruvy, there were gentler and kinder nations. The biblical record of your own people and the Canaanites is a sure testimony to the gentility and peace which were prevalent back then.
28 - Ruvy
Roger
When we consider that outside of Israel, there are some 60 odd pretty damned murderous conflicts going on in the world (but they ain't white folks, so they don't really rate coverage, right?), some of which are genocidal now, my points hold water, and your four pages of blather don't. Neither does your whining about the Book of Joshua....
Look at the real world, Roger. Teh one where people live longer, and so rape, murder, steal and exploit more. Read Jordan's article on the murders going on in Sri Lanka. He took the suggestion I made to Dave Nalle seriously.
29 - Ruvy
And now it is time for this editor to go make his money. So, ta ta for now.
30 - roger nowosielski
I wasn't whining, Ruvy, just pointed out how utterly saintly all of yous were.
Later then.
31 - Doug Hunter
"is already an indication of some concept/s you have which are more "humane" or equitable or whatever."
It's easy to imagine where morals might head, basically it's a projection of our individual selfish wants and desires driven primarily by fear filtered through the concept of empathy (just in case 'them' is ever 'us'). The last part, empathy, is not a trivial matter and is the part that seems most vulnerable to regression and probably the most effected by improvements in media, etc.
32 - roger nowosielski
Correct. "Empathy" is most susceptible to regress. That's why I argue in this and following articles that "high moral stance" is contingent on a general level of prosperity. I believe I make this point in part II (already published), and more strongly in Part III soon to come.
Although technically speaking, Doug, I would make a distinction between moral and religious values. When it comes to such things as "love," "empathy," or 'charity," you can't really command them. It's different with "moral values," however. We do have certain standards and we expect that most everyone abide by them. We know, for example, that "fraud" is wrong; likewise with "cheating" and things like that.
33 - roger nowosielski
Doug,
Part III just made it. Why don't you give it a quick look to see where I'm going with this?
34 - Doug Hunter
Think I'll detour through part II first but will get to it.
35 - Hoby Van Hoose
I disagree with the central point for several reasons - trends, oppression, poverty, and conflict - which each create collective amnesia either by themselves or in combination.
Many populations, some very large, have become "enlightened" going back to very ancient history. Just because we are the latest and the largest doesn't mean we're too numerous or modernized to have whatever moral gains we make erased over time.
Anything can be collectively forgotten within a generation. It can because it has been, over and over and over again. Enlightenment takes constant work - preserving, seeding, and growing within the ever changing population.. and it is FAR from being impervious to the forces which cause collective amnesia.
36 - Zedd
The last page of your article did not display.
I have to process what I've read a bit. I'll get back with you. Back to work....
37 - Zedd
First,
Please explain what you feel we are progressing towards. Then I'll know where to go with our discussion.
38 - roger nowosielski
Universal values becoming part of mass-consciousness - universal justice, freedom, equality and human rights.
We'll talk later.
39 - roger nowosielski
Hoby Van Hoose:
Great point, always to bear in mind the human capacity towards oblivion.
I'd hope, however, that the main features of modernity - with its emphasis on mass communications - would serve as a sufficient deterrent against great reversals. The kinds of human rights we've been able to secure on behalf of women, blacks and other minorities do appear irreversible unless subject to radical social upheavals.
I don't know whether here or in the next section I speak of the Gutenberg analogy. Once the printing press was invented, the word of God became available, eventually to the masses. And in spite of religious prosecutions, the Bible isn't going away. It's become part and parcel of mass consciousness. Consequently, I believe something of that nature is at work here.
40 - roger nowosielski
Zedd,
Thanks for your patience But try at least to catch the next two segments (Part II and III) which develop the topic fully.
41 - roger nowosielski
Zedd,
Apparently, there is a temporary glitch with "the writer page" on BC, which is why you can't access Part II and III. But you can do so by clicking on my URL, and those two articles are posted there as well.
Roger