They had a whole fleet of school buses they could have used to evacuate everybody.
That's all I hear from the FoxNews network. Over and over about how the school buses weren't used and how that would have made all the difference in the world in New Orleans. How everyone could have been evacuated.
Um, I don't think so.
People are making a bigger deal about the buses than they should. New Orleans and the surrounding area is smaller than Orange County, FL. Matter of fact Orleans Parish has less than 1/3 the total number of students than Orange County, FL. At least it did before Katrina.
Here's the truth about school buses (the type in question):
A large school bus holds about 90 people if they sit three to a seat. That's what the federal government tells the school districts when trying to figure how much to charge for the buses. They hold 90 people if they aren't any bigger than most 3rd or 4th graders. From about 5th grade up you're going to get 2 people to a seat at best. You're down to about 60 to 70 people for a large bus.
Not all school buses are this big. In Orange County about 1/3 are that size. Most are your average size school bus which holds roughly 50 people. Short buses (yes, we have those) seat about 10.
Orange County moves about 63,000 students to and from school a day. However, not all of those students are on the buses at the same time. First high school students get picked up and dropped off. Then elementary. Then middle school. There are not enough buses to pick up that many students at one time. Forget about having enough drivers. Orange County Public Schools has 997 buses.
Let's do the math. Now remember, Orleans Parish has less than 1/3 the number of students that Orange County, FL has therefore it has less than 1/3 of the buses. Let's be generous and say that New Orleans has 300 average size buses. If each bus was loaded with 50 people that would be 15,000 people that could have been evacuated using the buses.
Article comments
1 - marc
You make a logical arguement, but you forget, most critics are only stating the obvious. The buses were not only not used, but an attempt was never made. That is the key point. The cities evac plan, you know the one, it was never used in any substancial way, states the buses are to be used in case of an evac order.
Also you have omited the fact that metropolitan transport buses (about 300) were never used, or an attempt made to use them.
Whether it was 100,000, 30,000 or just 5,000 that successfully left via a fully implemented evac plan they, the city and those struggleing to correct the gross malfeasence now would be better off.
And I seriously doubt you will find many saying that the entire city could have, or should have been evaced via the buses. They were meant for the very people that did get left behind, those unable to move due to monetary concerns or health problems.
You know the ones, they are being utilized now by the race baiters and moonbats of all stripes.
2 - mulligan
Many of those with health issues would not have been able to evacuate by bus. Unless the bus was specifically designed to handle wheelchairs (only a very small number), it is next to impossible to get someone in a wheelchair on a bus. Even without a wheelchair, it is difficult to get someone with limited mobility on a bus. If their health needs monitoring, there would have to be someone available for that also.
Also, buses are useless without drivers. Just because one untrained person took a bus and drove it without killing everyone aboard doesn't mean anyone can. Those people were very lucky.
I do not know which authority is in control of the metropolitan buses. If it was the city, than yes, they should have been used as well. If it was the county (parish) or a private organization than trying to work something out may have taken valiable time.
Yes, getting 30,000 people out would have made a difference to those 30,000 people. Overall, however, it would not have solved the main problem; evacuating the entire population left behind.
3 - The Bastard
Marc,
And lets not forget how many of these people left behind were disabled. Ever try to get a wheel chair bound person that's strapped to oxygen onto a bus with no handi-cap access?
That would slow down the evacuation even more.
Oh and don't forget the discussions that would have to take place to convince people to leave their belongings and their pets behind.
Oh and navigating on dark stormy nights ain't a barrel of laughs.
Oh and I assume every driver would have intimate knowledge of every neighborhood they were driving threw as I'm sure that with the incredible salaries school bus drivers make they would have stuck around for the overtime. Not. So now you have "new" drivers trying to think about which way to go.
Anybody who wants to hang their hat on this stupid argument of "they should have used the bus's" just proves that they themselves did take the short bus to school. Now put your helmets back on and stop chewing on the hair of the person next to you!
Two things happened here a) you had a near direct hit of a category 5 hurricane which I would estimate would have killed a hand full of people. Buses would not have saved them.
And you'll love this one....ready....from the mouth of Michael Moore you have b),
There is much to be said and done about the manmade annihilation of New Orleans, caused NOT by a hurricane but by the very specific decisions made by the Bush administration in the past four and a half years.
You see Marc, thousands died because of the inactions prior to the storm not because buses were not used.
And I would have to say based on the scientific data and reports that back Mr. Moores statement up that the argument of buses is weak. You can't blame the school buses Marc, thousands would not have perished if the levees had not broke.
4 - John
Idiots...THEY DIDN'T EVEN TRY!
Attitudes like yours caused this
5 - DrPat
Um, The Bastard has a few facts slightly askew:
There was sufficient warning of the coming of Katrina to use the buses to evacuate the most endangered: those who needed diabetic supplies, infants and their mothers, etc. -- provided they responded to the urgency of the order to evacuate
There were seven months of time (after Ivan) in which the local newspaper urged people to make plans for evacuation in the event of another such storm. "Don't have a car? Find a neighbor who does, and plan with them to get away."
There was a city evacuation plan that relied on the school buses, in part, to assist in evacuating the needy. For whatever reason, the drivers they needed to carry out this plan were not on the same page. They weren't even in the city.
Katrina (unlike Ivan) was a Cat3 when it hit land. Also unlike Cat4 Ivan, it hit land much closer to the city.
The school buses were not ever intended to be the sole means of evacuating the New Orleans. But they might have been used to bring thousands -- 15,000 perhaps, or 30,000 -- to where they would have greater access to the care they needed.
If only...
6 - mulligan
One thing you didn't consider, Dr. Pat, is that the reason the buses can be seen in flooded parking lots is because the levees broke after the hurricane had already pass through New Orleans.
Like you wrote, the bus drivers weren't there. You can't drive buses without bus drivers. I imagine the bus drivers did what most people did, they left town.
Having a plan to use the buses doesn't mean that you can force people to leave their families in danger so that they can drive other people out of town.
Let's not forget, the largest loss of life occured after Katrina went through New Orleans. It occured because levees that were supposed to be strengthened were not due to funding being redirected to other areas. It occured because the head of FEMA was waiting for the proper paperwork to be handed to him before he had food and water brought in.
Bush declared the area a disaster area on August 27 or 28 (before Katrina hit) then went back on his vacation. FEMA, Congress, and all other areas of the federal government didn't not start moving until Bush came back to D.C. That was roughly 3 days later.
7 - Mark
Loiusuana Democrats squandered federal dollars that could have rebuilt levees in th 90's. If you want to blame levees then read this.....
By Jeff Johnson
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
September 7, 2005
By 1998, Louisiana's state government had a $2 billion construction budget, but less than one tenth of one percent of that -- $1.98 million -- was dedicated to levee improvements in the New Orleans area. State appropriators were able to find $22 million that year to renovate a new home for the Louisiana Supreme Court and $35 million for one phase of an expansion to the New Orleans convention center.
STOP BLAMING THE FEDS!!!
The full story here.
http://www.gopusa.com/news/2005/september/0907_louisiana_katrinap.shtml
8 - mulligan
My post is about buses. The comment about the levees was to point out the timeline of events.
Try reading what is written before you start yelling about anything in a comment.
9 - JASH
Can anyone tell me where all of the 300 - 600 buses are? Were they used at all or are they under water parked in neat rows in an underwater parking lot?
No emotion here please, I'm just after some facts.
Please send to my e-mail jashofat at yahoo
Thanks so much.
10 - Jewels
Jash, the Wheels on the buses Don't go round and round. They're neatly parked in parking lots, all in a row.
11 - finebammer
question: if the local buses couldn't assist special needs, if they couldn't find drivers, if there was too much traffic, if they had to make too many trips and, here's my favorite, it was too dark and rainy anyhoo, how would bringing in greyhounds (with ac and bathrooms) have changed anything??? isn't that why nagin said the local fleet was inadequate??? they didn't have bathrooms??? here's the deal. you had a plan. you didn't follow it. people died. whether or not folks evac is about as material as if christina abernathy does her weather channel forecast in a tube top. a public official's top priority is the safety of his/her constiuencency. nagin owed his minions his best effort to evacuate them. profane tirades and flooded buses are evidence of his effort. almost two weeks post-katrina, nagin and gov. blanco are still cat-fighting for control and microphones. we now know blanco swore retribution when nagin backed the republican candidate in the last gubenatorial campaign. if ray nagin couldn't control his city, if nagin and gov. kathleen blanco couldn't set aside their political differences to do their best for the people of louisiana, how could mike brown be expected to? it was nagin's responsibility to do his best to evac his city. it was blanco's to assist by providing shelter. both had a plan before them, both were (criminally?) negligent.
Oh, a storm is threat’ning
My very life today
If I don’t get some shelter
Oh yeah, I’m gonna fade away
War, children, it’s just a shot away
It’s just a shot away
War, children, it’s just a shot away
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Ooh, see the fire is sweepin’
Our very street today
Burns like a red coal carpet
Mad bull lost it’s way
War, children, it’s just a shot away
It’s just a shot away
War, children, it’s just a shot away
It’s just a shot away
Rape, murder!
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Rape, murder!
It’s just a shot away
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The floods is threat’ning
My very life today
Gimme, gimme shelter
Or I’m gonna fade away
War, children, it’s just a shot away
It’s just a shot away
It’s just a shot away
It’s just a shot away
It’s just a shot away
I tell you love, sister, it’s just a kiss away
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jagger, richards.
12 - david
The buses WERE in fact used to evacuate people to the superdome and the convention center. They were used BEFORE Katrina struck and then returned to the yard- do you expect bus drivers to be driving DURING the storm?
Also, many of the potential bus drivers left town early which lowered the number of people that could be moved.
Most of you haven't done any research. Don't just listen to the talking heads, a quick internet search can get you some real facts.
BTW there were not 2000 buses like reported, there were a little over 350, and apparently some 80 of those buses were not functional- the reports are still a bit vague.
13 - Bob A. Booey
Nagin said on "Meet the Press" that they didn't have drivers and used all the drivers they could find in the city non-stop to evacuate people from the Superdome all the way to Houston and other destinations.
That is all.
14 - finebammer
you guys make me laugh. drivers in the storm? the freakin' point is he was supposed to evac BEFORE the storm hit, you dolts. that was what the plan was all about. (you know, the plan nagin DIDN'T FOLLOW!) he chunked those folks into the superdome at the last minute with no food, water and protection. what is so hard for you people to understand that nagin should have had buses at the hospitals, nursing homes friday night??? (and don't EVEN tell me he didn't know they were in trouble at that point) this guy was a deer in the headlights. he froze. then the guv (you know, the one who swore retribution after nagin backed the republican candidate against her in the last gubenatorial campaign-"you'll be 'iced' out"), for whatever reason, dropped the ball, too. but no, no, this is all mike brown's fault, fema's fault. and all facilitated by bush's hatred of black people. and just so you know, you clowns aren't fooling anybody. the article that starts all this has the picture of a toy bus above it. belittling the very instrument that could have saved lives. i will never forget the image of the dead woman in the wheelchair covered with a blanket. that woman could have been saved by the very buses the author of this piece trivializes. then the author claims fox news reported EVERYONE could have been evacuated. baldface lie. fox news never reported any such thing and this author can't prove they did. the author (after an extensive "wheels-on-the-bus" math lesson) breathlessly claims those buses couldn't have evac'ed the ENTIRE city!!! well, DUH! of course they couldn't. 80% of the city was already gone! who is this clown trying to kid? david above claims nagin DID use the buses to evac. WRONG. nagin used the buses in the ultimate inner-city shell game. he moved them from one part of the city to the other. shelter? i think not! the dome suffered damage from a glancing weak-side blow. had katrina held course, no one left, in the dome or out, survives. there weren't 2000 BUSES!?!?! i never heard anyone report, including fox, 2000 buses. 300 tops. and all the drivers left early. yep, too bad nagin didn't assure they had a busload in tow. less blood on his hands. and i need research!!!!! yeah. i truly suspect the only thing that kept nyc from being a 9/11 version of this is that rudy guiliani was mayor rather than david dinkins.
15 - Jewels
Thank you finebammer!Negligent Nagin is trying to furiously spin his way outta this fine mess! I guess, considering some of the comments in this post; the fact the buses were left to drown in the lowlands when the Louisiana/New Orleans evac. plan existed to use these buses hasn't hit home yet.
Did ya hear the one about how ol' Negligent spins that he just wanted more comfortable buses for the citizens...???
I got a million of 'em.
16 - Randy Kirk
Now reports are surfacing that suggest that this was the fastest response by the feds to any hurricane ever. See DRudge
Go back and read the whole thread above. Logic would say that whether 5000 or 30,000 or any number was evacuated prior, it makes the rest of the folks left behind better off, and the job of getting them out easier.
Check out my website to see estimates I made last week that this whole thing was totally overblown (sorry), and I question why we are talking about $200B or well over $100,000 for every man, woman, and child.
17 - Bob A. Booey
I must say that it disturbs me slightly to read in Krauthammer today that 60% of New Orleans cops are on R&R holiday, most in Vegas, on the city's dime. Even they did what they could (which wasn't enough), shouldn't they still be helping the National Guard and the military keep order?
Can anyone find any articles documenting what Krauthammer alleged today?
That is all.
18 - Dave Nalle
Randy: "Now reports are surfacing that suggest that this was the fastest response by the feds to any hurricane ever. See DRudge "
I've been saying this for several days. Not that it's the fastest response ever, but that most elements were executed remarkably well considering the scale of the disaster. I think most people don't understand the magnitude of what we're dealing with here. This wasn't one disaster, it was like 2 or 3 different major disasters at the same time. New Orleans is all over the news, but have you seen any pictures of the city of Biloxi lately? Well, pictures of where Biloxi USED to be? New Orleans got flooded. Biloxi, with a population of 50,000 basically got erased.
BAB: "I must say that it disturbs me slightly to read in Krauthammer today that 60% of New Orleans cops are on R&R holiday, most in Vegas, on the city's dime."
This has been mentioned on the blogs since the very beginning. Supposedly Nagin initiated this in response to the crisis, right at the height of it, and I really can't figure out why.
Dave
19 - Jewels
You got one right Bobba, Negligent sent them to Vegas to R/R and, unlike Bo Bice, he did not pay for their tickets himself, they went on Taxpayer dime. Oh yeah, the taxpayers are now homeless. Hurricanes make you tired.
20 - Dave Nalle
It looks to me like he started sending them to Las Vegas on the 3rd of September. That would be three days before the mandatory evacuation and in fact a day before the superdome was even evacuated.
Dave
21 - Jewels
Negligent had to get them out of town before the hapless victims of the Superdome were released.
22 - Dave Nalle
Personally I think he was afraid that they'd get into direct armed conflict with the National Guard.
Dave
23 - mike
There are 8000 school buses in la. 5000of which belong top the state. The orleans school district has 324 buses Each major city has multiple school districts. And in the case of new orleans there are several. Each district with hundreds of buses. Its obvious the mayor and govenor did not care about their own people. They did not evacuate anyone.
24 - mulligan
Actually, New Orleans has one school district and multiple schools. New Orleans belongs to Orleans Parish School District.