(Never mind all the holier than thou preachers who get caught with their pants down and all the priests who molest young children, hiding under their collar. But hey, no abortions, right?)
BTW--the "morning after" emergency contracepton pill that everyone is so up in arms about--the pill that women can take shortly after unprotected sex--does not abort anything. It is commonly confused with the so-called "abortion pill," which is an entirely different thing. Taken in a timely fashion, emergency contraception merely makes the womb unviable for sperm implantation. No more an abortion than using the Pill would be, but then, many members of the religous right apparently don't believe that anyone should have protected extramarital sex at all. I think underneath it all, this is what it all boils down to--trying to force the whole nation to "just say no."
Moreover, since so many people are misinformed on the nature of this contraceptive option, it is important to note that making it available does not mean that it will become a ubiquitous method of birth control--the side effects are just too unpleasant for everyday use.
Here is a quote from the Planned Parenthood site that I think is crucial to note here:
There is considerable public confusion about the difference between emergency contraception and medication abortion because of misinformation disseminated by anti-choice groups. Emergency contraception helps prevent pregnancy; medication abortion terminates pregnancy. According to general medical definitions of pregnancy that have been endorsed by many organizations including the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists and the United States Department of Health and Human Services, pregnancy begins when a pre-embryo completes implantation into the lining of the uterus (ACOG, 1998; DHHS, 1978; Hughes, 1972; "Make the Distinction?" 2001). Hormonal methods of contraception, including emergency contraception pills, prevent pregnancy by inhibiting ovulation and fertilization (ACOG, 1998). Medication abortion terminates a pregnancy without surgery. By helping women to prevent unplanned pregnancies after unprotected intercourse, emergency contraception has the great potential to decrease the rate of abortion. By helping women terminate unwanted pregnancies up to 63 days after their last menstruation, medication abortion is a safe and effective option.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Shark
[Shark takes a curious glance -- then flees for the hills before the blood-letting begins...]
BTW: In the event that I'm not around, I'd like to contribute a few mandatory comments that are currently required by law:
"Baby-killers!"
"Child-rapist!"
"Progressive!"
"Atheist!"
"Liberal!"
"Secular Humanist!"
"Socialist!"
"Femi-Nazi!"
~ There. That about covers any comments from the opposition. In the interest of brevity and economy, please do not repeat any of the above.
Thanks for your cooperation.
The Management
2 - Elvira Black
Shark:
LOL! Thanks...um...I think.
Actually, I was kinda hoping I'd get some flack and/or backup for this post. I'm feeling a bit frisky today, and could use a little excitement. But it's quite possible that all the commenters to Mr. Bambenek's post--including, quite possibly, Mr. Bambenek--have exhausted themselves already.
I can only hope this isn't the case. In any event, it never hurts to have a clever, witty Shark in my corner!
3 - Dave Nalle
I'd love to see all these blowhards who talk about the "sanctity of life" open their door one day and see that someone has dumped all the unwanted crack babies and incest victims in the neighborhood on their doorstep.
I'm right behind you on the right to abortion, but to their credit I do know an awful lot of religious folks who are pro life who DO adopt babies, including crack babies and the products of incest and rape, and do it above and beyond the call of duty and when they are well beyond any sensible age to be raising kids.
Fault these folks for holding an illogical, wrongheaded and ultimately anti-humane view on abortion, but most of the rank and file are not hypocritical and are genuinely good and well meaning people. Their leaders, on the other hand, are a bunch of opportunistic, hypocritical and truly evil windbags.
Dave
4 - Shark
Elvira, you'll not get any flak outta this fish; as I've said many times before:
1) someday soon (population 15 billion or so) abortion will not only be a Right, but it'll be a necessity.
2) Pro-lifers murdering abortion doctors = IRONY
3) If men had wombs, an abortion would come free with the purchase of every Dodge Ram pickup truck.
4) I'm not only not AGAINST abortion, but I'm for mandatory post-partum abortions for all Fundamentalist Republicans.
5) "If you're so Pro-Life, why don't you link arms and block the entrance to a cemetary?!" -- Bill Hicks
5 - Shark
I'm w/Dave on this (mark yer calendars!)
There are many pro-lifers who actually practice the implications of what they preach: they adopt -- and they are to be praised and admired for walking the walk.
(Me, I can't handle any more hellacious rebellious children; I've got my hands full with my alter-ego!)
6 - Sherrie
Great post! The illogic of believing that human beings can be forced to never engage in sex outside of marriage just boggles my mind. If people would take a look at human history and human psychology and figure out that this is impossible then support birth control and planned pregnancy it could actually do some good!
7 - Elvira Black
Dave:
Point well taken, There are certainly many Christian folks who know and practice the true meaning of Christianity.
However, tragic though it is, there are just not enough decent souls to take in all the abused, neglected, and otherwise seriously damaged children who need love and even special care.
My cousin worked for many years for child welfare, and the stories he told were infuriating and tragic. From what I understand, the burnout rate for social work is very high, because just dealing with these horrors day by day can be so stressful and disheartening.
How much more stressful to actually be good and strong enough to take on a baby who needs a good home. Truly a heartbreaking state of affairs all around.
8 - Dave Nalle
1) someday soon (population 15 billion or so) abortion will not only be a Right, but it'll be a necessity.
If we ever reach that point I'm sure that the giant worldwide wars of extermination will be more than sufficient for the job.
Dave
9 - Elvira Black
Shark:
Pithy, brilliant, funny--nice Shark!
Sherrie:
Thank you. Sex is a natural urge, which is why those who choose to remain celebate can sometimes have such trouble repressing their desires. As far as I know, Jesus did not say anything about fornicators being condemned to eternal damnation as a matter of course. His focus was more on loving thy neighbor, not being greedy and selfish, etc., as far as I can recall.
I am half-Jewish, half-Christian (or full Jewish, considering my mom was). But I have to say that one thing that turns me off about the way Chrstianity is practiced by some is the need to prostheletize and just plain stick one's nose into other people's most intimate business. What ever happened to life (as in for the living too), liberty, and the pursuit of happiness (which, for 99 percent of the world, includes sex)?
10 - Bennett
Elvira - Excellent!
I appreciate your noting the difference between birth control pills, emergency pills, and medicinal abortion pills. If the RR would just pull their heads out of their butts for a bit, and take a look at the reality of the situation, we might not have to argue about abortion rights.
Even more, we wouldn't have a President pushing an AIDS relief and prevention plan that relies on abstinence instead of condoms. That, my fellow bloggers, is the height of stupidity.
"Lets spend tens of millions of dollars to help defeat AIDS in Africa by telling people to NOT have sex!"
Sometimes I am SO ashamed of our policy makers...
11 - Bing
Abortion is Palnned Parenthod's largest source of revenue and profit and anyone who thinks that they are trying to prevent more abortions is full of shit.
Also I'm sick of hearing liberals say that being pro-life means you must be responsible for that life after birth. Elvire would you think it was wrong if a stanger came down your street and murdered your nieghbor? I bet you do. But because you don't think your neighbor should be murdered does that make you responsible for ensuring that he recieves all the things he needs to live a happy life? It's a stupid argument you liberals make and you just don't get the point that being against the killing of a baby does not morally make us responsible for that baby's life. It just means that we believe killing babies is wrong.
As for pro lifers blowing up abortion clinics and killing people that work inside them I believe that is also wrong. The only time an abortion clinic should be blown up is when nobody is inside it.
I have no problem with people having all the sex they want outside of marriage but when they become pregnant they should act like an adult and do the right thing. You refer to it as a "punishment" Elvira. It's not a "punishment" but an actual human being and obviuosly one for wich you have no regard.
It is the epitome of selfishness to have sex knowing the possible consequences and then say "I'm going to kill this baby because it may cramp my lifestyle." Sure it's easier to have an abortion and go on with your life but just because somethign is easy doesn't make it right.
It's just like liberals though to take the easy way out and make excuses.
12 - Elvira Black
I will respond tol the new comments above asap--thank you!
Special note to Bing:
Liberal? not really. Libertarian? possibly.
Might surprise you to know that though I disagree vehemently with some of what you say, I do agree with a few other things you point out.
Back later.
13 - RedTard
By all means let's not infringe upon anyone's party time. Kill all the babies we want for convenience sake.
Now if I could just get you guys to see the light on the handicapped and homeless too. They serve no purpose and are a burden on society just like an unwanted baby. Perhaps we should consider killing them too.
14 - Gregory John Schoppe
A. I am Pro-Life, as is my family.
B. My parents have been foster-parents for about 7 years, and 3 years ago we adopted a family group of three.
C. I am currently considering attending Seminary and becoming a Roman Catholic priest.
remember this as the preface to my statements. I will not accept any attempted rebuttal in the form of unloved babies, pedophile priest accusations, or any hate based commentary.
Firstly, the clinical definition of pregnancy is just as misleading as the supreme court's definition of humanity. One starts when the implanted egg hits a wall; the other starts when a fetus passes through a canal. Prior to both there is a cell with UNIQUE HUMAN DNA.
Secondly, 4,000 abortions are performed DAILY in the US. Assuming the 2002 data of 11,000 births daily in the US, MORE THAN A QUARTER OF ALL US PREGNANCIES ARE ABORTED. Try to make the argument that even a significant number of these were a result of rape, incest, and medical issues. I DARE YOU. Abortion is committed, in the vast majority of cases, for purely frivolous reasons.
Thirdly, we have manners of contraception that vary widely, from condoms to pills to diaphragms to tubal ligations... ect. I am against premarital sex, but, if you are the sort of woman who would not support a pregnancy if it happened START TAKING THE PILL NOW. If you are a man who would urge his partner to get an abortion, or the kind who would leave after impregnating them, GET A VASECTOMY NOW. Even if you're "safe" with your chosen partner, if you're a a girl, and you would get an abortion if pregnancy occurred, TAKE THE PILL. Rape is no excuse. Get prepared if your going to have sex.
Finally, I respond to the age old argument of the Back-Alley abortionist. The statement that abortion must be kept legal for the safety it provides to those who get abortions is ludacris. It is equivalent to stating that Hitmen must be protected so that prospective murderers will not be injured by the victim's resistance. The law cannot be tailored out of fear for the safety of those who break it. Frankly, THE LAW CANNOT PROTECT MURDERERS.
I refuse to sit idly by as a silent haulocaust is committed in our nation. PLEASE, if any of this has hit a cord, join me at the March for Life on January 22nd at the Mall in Washington, DC.
Thank you for your time.
15 - Matthew T. Sussman
I read something a while back saying if the Democrats didn't have so many abortions back in the '70s, they would have had enough voting-age children to vote for Kerry to defeat Bush in the '04 election.
I want to say it was in the Wall St. Journal. Read it on Fark. I'll look for it.
16 - gonzo marx
Gregory sez...
*Prior to both there is a cell with UNIQUE HUMAN DNA.*
and here begins the fallacious factoid that stands as "postulate" to the ensuing Logic...
why fallacious, you ask?
fair enough...every sperm ejaculated and every egg flushed during menstruation, every flake of dandruff, every fallen scap, every drop of blood ALSO has human DNA in it...
we are a nation under the Rule of Law, a codified set of Ethics
under this, our Law says you are born when the Birth Certificate is signed, and you are dead when the Death Certificate says you are
in between is recognized as the timespan of Human Life
before is just the woman, and after no one Knows
enjoy what is in-Between, and Live it well
nuff said?
Excelsior!
17 - KYS
"NOW. Even if you're "safe" with your chosen partner, if you're a a girl, and you would get an abortion if pregnancy occurred, TAKE THE PILL. Rape is no excuse. Get prepared if your going to have sex."
So you're saying that any girl who would consider abortion should be on the pill, even though she is abstinent, just in case she gets raped? Should that be mandatory? Isn't that just another way to control a woman's body? At least you mention vasectomy, so you give men and women equal time, but a woman shouldn't have to subject herself to the cost and the potential dangers of chemical birth control "just in case" she gets raped.
18 - Matthew T. Sussman
I'm smelling a round-table smartass response to this liner:
Rape is no excuse. Get prepared if your going to have sex.
Get on your GAME FACE!
19 - RedTard
"fair enough...every sperm ejaculated and every egg flushed during menstruation, every flake of dandruff, every fallen scap, every drop of blood ALSO has human DNA in it..."
I think he was making the point that it was UNIQUE DNA, aka, a new life. I'll have to think on the unborn baby = dandruff logic you present. I think it speaks to the mindset of those who believe in killing for convenience.
20 - gonzo marx
you mistake me then Red...i take killing VERY seriously...i was very specific in talking only about DNA
the point i was implying is the Question revolves around when a cell becomes a Person
and i gave the legal definitions in our Nation as they stand
might i suggest it says something of the mindset when an Individual reads into words what they believe they see, rather than what is actually there
Excelsior!
21 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I dunno know, Elvira. It seems you can frame the question you raise a bit differently. Since sex causes babies, and abortions, contraceptives and other measures are supposed to avoid these little squalling consequences of sex, let's pose the question this way.
Does my 16 year old have the right to screw anyone in a skirt who'll voluntarily spread her legs for him? For me. that is the thrust of the issue. For I am his father and teacher.
If the answer is yes, you need all the contraceptives and other baby avoidance measures, don't you? You also get to deal with the attitude of "it's my body and I'll do with it as I please, and if you don't like it, fuck off." Maybe I should explain the advantages of this attitude to my friend who emigrated from DC who has two daughters?
Your society (and mine) seems to have answered the question posed this way. Screw all you want but don't crowd up my welfare rolls or hospitals or cost me money.
Nice coda to the sexual revolution, eh?
I'll let you ponder the consequences.
Suffice it to say, I'm not raising my sons to have that attitude - society be damned.
22 - KYS
Strangely absent from the conversation is the innate human drive to have sex. Biologically we are ready to have sex way before any "age of consent", and the instinct is STRONG. The RR insists that we should be able to turn this drive off until we fit into some fabricated social model, and therefore they can never deal with the issue on a practical level.
23 - gonzo marx
Ruvy...a Question on the topic for you...
if i Understand correctly...the Ritual of bar/bat mitzvah denotes the Coming of Age, when said Individual is Recognized as an Adult by their Family and Community
if such is the case, then would it not be the Decision of those two hypothetical 16 year olds?
and would not a Parent want them to have ALL the education about such matters, both Ethical and biological...so that a such a Choice in behavior would not only understand all the Responsibilities involved, but the potential Consequences as well
then, if they decide to enjoy each other...they have education required to keep themselves "safe" and ensure that their Decision (most likely made in the youthful throes of passion and curiosity) will have no onsequences other than for themselves
just a Thoguht
Excelsior!
24 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Unfortunmately, you don't understand correctly. The Bar or Bat Mitzvah indicates that the person carries his own sin. In other words, until my kids were thirteen, I carried their sins on my head. Now they carry sin on their own heads. The free ride is over. So far as the religion goes, they are of the age of judgment when they are TWENTY.
Now, as to your lead on question, my responsibility in my eyes is that they know about contraception, birth control, etc. AND that they have the attitude not to chase every piece of tail coming their way.
Finally, as to Halakhá - Jewish law - we do NOT own our own bodies and cannot do with them as we please and tell everyone to fuck off it they don't like it.
We have responsibilities to G-d. The society around them - heavily influenced by the trash it gets from YOUR society - tells them the opposite.
So, I have the additional job of raising my kids to go against the grain of the society they live in.
It's a joy being a father...
25 - diana hartman
"Also I'm sick of hearing liberals say that being pro-life means you must be responsible for that life after birth. Elvire would you think it was wrong if a stanger came down your street and murdered your nieghbor? I bet you do. But because you don't think your neighbor should be murdered does that make you responsible for ensuring that he recieves all the things he needs to live a happy life? It's a stupid argument you liberals make and you just don't get the point that being against the killing of a baby does not morally make us responsible for that baby's life. It just means that we believe killing babies is wrong."
sooo, you think you should get to tell others what to do (stay pregnant) but they can't tell you what to do (take care of that child you insisted be brought to term)...
we (society) do believe we are responsible for the lives of people and say as much with our tax dollars...that's why we have social services, afdc, corporate welfare, schools, the VA, state institutions, etc...