Cindy Sheehan's mourning has turned to questions. It was good of the President to have consoled her in mourning. It is wrong of the President to ignore her very public concerns and her very simple request.
Raw Story is talking about the article from 2004 which Matt Drudge is employing, with a Right attack-dog-wind beneath his wings [he got the report archive from Freepers]. The mission to attack is on - the objective is to discredit the mother of a fallen Iraqi soldier.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments726 - Jude
The point is that a lot of people have something to contribute to this debate, for lots of different reasons, and to set one above another automatically is short sighted.
To be honest, I would give (and have given) more weight to American soldiers who wish to chime in to any debate about war. They - and their immediate families - understand the costs in a more deeply personal and "knowing" way than anyone else. It isn't "setting one above another". It's a consideration of moral authority. (Note that I didn't say absolute moral authority ).
727 - Jude
Enough with the personal attacks. I can understand why the term chicken hawk is offensive. Would you insist on using a racially or sexually derogatory term if offended the person you used it against?
Bwahahaha! So you're saying that you're a chickenhawk by fate of birth now?
That's RICH! :)
728 - Dave Nalle
>>To be honest, I would give (and have given) more weight to American soldiers who wish to chime in to any debate about war. They - and their immediate families - understand the costs in a more deeply personal and "knowing" way than anyone else. It isn't "setting one above another". It's a consideration of moral authority. (Note that I didn't say absolute moral authority ). <<
If that's true Jude, I wish you'd been listening to our local radio station today. I live near Ft. Hood and the soldiers were calling in with their opinions of - to use their words - 'Cindy Jehad'. They are really, really not pleased with her activities. One who had just returned from Iraq commented that right before he left terrorist sympathizers in Iraq were handing out leaflets with pictures of Cindy Sheehan to show their supporters that they're winning because we're weakening - with her as evidence. One of the repeated themes was that Cindy Sheehan, by her actions is going to be responsible for additional dead soldiers in Iraq. They really despise her.
Dave
729 - Dave Nalle
>>To be honest, I would give (and have given) more weight to American soldiers who wish to chime in to any debate about war. They - and their immediate families - understand the costs in a more deeply personal and "knowing" way than anyone else. It isn't "setting one above another". It's a consideration of moral authority. (Note that I didn't say absolute moral authority ). <<
If that's true Jude, I wish you'd been listening to our local radio station today. I live near Ft. Hood and the soldiers were calling in with their opinions of - to use their words - 'Cindy Jehad'. They are really, really not pleased with her activities. One who had just returned from Iraq commented that right before he left terrorist sympathizers in Iraq were handing out leaflets with pictures of Cindy Sheehan to show their supporters that they're winning because we're weakening - with her as evidence. One of the repeated themes was that Cindy Sheehan, by her actions is going to be responsible for additional dead soldiers in Iraq. They really despise her.
Dave
730 - Jude
I live near Ft. Hood and the soldiers were calling in with their opinions of - to use their words - 'Cindy Jehad'. They are really, really not pleased with her activities. One who had just returned from Iraq commented that right before he left terrorist sympathizers in Iraq were handing out leaflets with pictures of Cindy Sheehan to show their supporters that they're winning because we're weakening - with her as evidence. One of the repeated themes was that Cindy Sheehan, by her actions is going to be responsible for additional dead soldiers in Iraq. They really despise her.
Terrorist sympathizers in Iraq are not Americans, Dave. Those people you call "terrorist sypathizers" over in Iraq would be the last ones I'd assign any moral authority to. Dead last.
We don't need a permission slip from terrorists to ask questions which we free Americans think are appropriate and necessary to ask.
In the case of that one soldier you mentioned - I would tend to listen to him before I'd listen to you. As a matter of fact, knowing how you feel about this topic from your many posts, I would tend to want to hear this soldier speak myself, rather than hearing him through your filter.
When you say "the soldiers who called in.." - we do not know if they've been in Iraq. I would have liked to have heard them speak without your filter. Hearing something with one's own ears is the best way to place authority and make personal judgements.
Calling the woman "Cindy Jihad" is, in truth, disrespectful and just plain inaccurate. Cindy Sheehan and the Gold Star families are not promoting holy war or any other senseless kind of war. They fear that the one we're fighting is senseless and that our leadership has been deceitful.
What "terrorist sympathizers" want is not what concerned Americans want.
Cindy Sheehan, by her actions is going to be responsible for additional dead soldiers in Iraq
There's a political psywar going on in America. Propagandists would lead some to believe that citizens asking the toughest questions will lead to non-success.
In truth, the buck stops with the President of the United States. If the war wasn't an obvious non-success to begin with, no one would be asking the tough questions.
The responibility for anyone dying in Iraq today would lay squarely on the shoulders of the leaders who plan and direct it.
That's where the power is - the man with the greatest military power in the world has failed to rally a nation - and the world.
The man with the greatest power, by his position, takes on the trust of those who give him moral authority.
Bush has lost his moral authority because of his lack of leadership and character.
That one small mother's voice - the voice of Cindy Sheehan - didn't do that.
He did that on his own.
There are some rational debates and questions in this country about the way the Iraq war has been conducted that have absolutely nothing to do with people believing we should show weakness in the face of terrorism.
I've heard that bullcrap argument far too many times to swallow it.
731 - Dave Nalle
Jude, why do you have to call me a liar when all I'm doing is reporting what I heard? That seems completely uncalled for.
I haven't been one of those bashing Cindy Sheehan prior to this, and I don't deserve that kind of treatment from you.
You clearly have your agenda, and aren't interested in hearing or accepting anything that disagrees with it. That's fine, but perhaps you could keep your insults and your partisan viciousness to yourself and try making a reasoned argument for once.
>>When you say "the soldiers who called in.." - we do not know if they've been in Iraq. I would have liked to have heard them speak without your filter.<<
So you're going to not just call me a liar, but call them liars as well. Wow, you're a great suporter of the troops.
If you'd like to hear them speak you can tune in through the web at KLBJ. Listen to the morning show next week between 8 and 10 and I'm confident soldiers will call in if the Sheehan business is still going on.
BTW, other callers who had been to Crawford, pointed out that despite the claims of 2000 protestors actual numbers there seem to be more in the 50 to 100 range.
But don't believe me. I'm just a big liar like everyone who's not a leftist.
Dave
732 - Jude
I did not call you a liar, Sensitive one. I said I would have rather heard the show for myself. That isn't partisan, that isn't vicious. I trust that you have filtered these thoughts and used them for this discussion. Every human being does this, Dave. It isn't the same as having heard it for myself. Period.
733 - Effendi
>>He's already got his campaign website up at effendi.com!<<
Hey Joe, that's not even cool, Are you resorting to acting 5 years old again, it's not becoming a a Green beret to act as you are. I expect juvenile behavior from the likes of mark and Nalle and the rest of the chicken legs but from you.....I know it's been 10 years for you but the memory can not have faded...Act like you have been trained Troop!!
>>MCH: you're actually siding with an obviously drug addled lunatic like Effendi? That guy was an idiot and I'll wager that the only uniform he ever wore was that of a store security guard.<<
What a sane and sensible comment Mark, I see how you got your name.
If I were only a store security guard would that somehow change to truth in my words?
Your attempts to disrespect me by calling me a drug addict have no grounds and only make you look like the two year old Punk that you are. I'm not intimidated by the retarded so take it back to Kindergarten!!
Nalle, show some ...thing...ANYTHING. Your insecurity is like a glass window.
>>Effendi Said: America is NOT under threat<<
Nalle: How soon we forget the events of 9/11.<<
Yea OK Nalle, How many Iraqi's were involved with 911?
And how many Saudi's were involved with 911?
Your argument, (Like most of them) has NO bearing and NO truth.
Neither you or your chicken hawk boi mark have ever shown any guts and the best you can do is attack a real man from behind a computer.
You are just like Karl Rove and George Bush and Mark the Sane And Sensible....NOT good for America and we will all be so much better off when the American people awaken to your treachery...
Scott!!
734 - Dave Nalle
>>>>He's already got his campaign website up at effendi.com!<<
Hey Joe, that's not even cool,<<
Come on now, he didn't set that site up, it's right there, coincidental with the name you picked. Pretty damned funny too.
>>Yea OK Nalle, How many Iraqi's were involved with 911?
And how many Saudi's were involved with 911?
Your argument, (Like most of them) has NO bearing and NO truth.<<
Except that my argument - which you conveniently ignore - is that we're dealing with an entire culture of extremism which crosses national borders, and that which country the individual terrorists come from is irrelevant, because they move from one to another, get money and supplies where they are availble, and that in fact, the best way to get at Saudi Arabia and Iran and Syria IS to attack Iraq. Maybe you should discuss that rather than just slinging insults.
>>Neither you or your chicken hawk boi mark have ever shown any guts and the best you can do is attack a real man from behind a computer.<<
I wasn't aware this was a penis measuring contest.
Dave
735 - Dave
So EFFENDI is now SCOTT; aka Mohamed the terrorist.
You just wait, there is going to be a payback for all your support of the conspiracy theorists and people like Cindy.
We need law and order. In the end, it will be Israel that will deliver law and order. Why do nations like the UK try to get involved?
You're all gonna die...anti-Semites are already the walking dead.
You can have your websites stating 9/11 was done by MOSSAD but we can kick your ass and the Queen's.
736 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
"So EFFENDI is now SCOTT; aka Mohamed the terrorist."
But check out his website, we now know what his life is all about:
www.effendi.com
he's a pedophile, isn't that just great?
737 - Effendi
So I guess we can accept from the last couple of posts that the word "Dave" pretty much = Idiot!!
Nalle, your suggestion that, "the best way to get at Saudi Arabia and Iran and Syria IS to attack Iraq." is Absolute INSANE thinking.
Let me erase your verbal twists and put it out in ENGLISH:
If Syria attacks America the best way to deal with Syria is to Attack Syria,, not Spain or Portugal...
If Saudi Arabia attacks America, the best way to deal with Saudi is to cut the obvious long standing Bush-Bin Laden ties and attack Saudi Arabia...Not Iraq or Quebec or some unrelated scenario.
What is wrong with you revisionists?
You have twisted your minds so much you refuse to accept the real threat and candy coat it, yet convince yourself that your September 11 anger is properly justified by attacking a third world regime like Iraq.
It's no wonder America is so screwed up internally, there are so many inside deals made with real enemies there is no way to really honestly defend America from hose who really do mean us harm. We're too busy re-directing imagined threats against other 3rd world countries.
I heard on the news last night that the Iraqi "Insurgency" is more Unified and organised than ever before. With US troops in the vicinity, Insurgents went house to house disguised as Iraqi soldiers and talked to the populace. Those who informed on their fellow Iraqis to the Americans were summarily rounded up and executed, we have NO CONTROL in Baghdad, yet you have this insane madman running America insisting that if we leave we dishonor those who have already died? What about the thousands who are GOING to die because of this faulty reasoning?
You know I can respect those of you who support Mr Bush with your eyes wide open. If you have considered the implications and still accept his "plan". I personally see no exit plan and I can't even seem to hear a straight answer from the Administrations as to where we stand. Each day is a new and different report. Last weekend they said maybe 10 more years, then they said by Tuesday that maybe they would pull troops out by the end of 06, then they said yesterday that 2 Battalions of the 82nd were deploying ASAP. I really have NO CLUE what we are doing or what our plan is. it seems to change daily and I'm just NO OK with that.
I really don't care about all the little 5 year old attacks on me personally, None of you know me and the best you can do is attack my name or find XXX sites that use the same word. Go ahead and play your games, the intelligent that read around your drivel read MY words and correlate them with the same questions they have regarding the actions of our government.
And dave...dave...dave.
You have NO IDEA who I am, I may be no one I may be someone but rest assured be very glad that I am not a terrorist, because if I were there would be NOTHING to stop me from putting my training into action should I so choose.
As far as supporting Cindy Sheehan, there is nothing any of you could ever say or do to change the fact that she represents the memory of her son a fellow American soldier. All the smear and slime only shows the rest of US who you really are, and we are not impressed. If you had just said something to the effect of, She is a sad mother who lost her son in war and we owe her the right to say what she wishes". I would have agreed and gone on, but you guys crossed the line by calling her all these insulting names. You have turned my stomach to the point of changing my political view. Then on top of that with out knowing me or my military commitment to America you suggest that I am a Terrorist and that I have some kind of "Payback" coming for supporting the mother of a fallen comrade in arms? Are you completely insane or what? You have NO IDEA who I am and what I may or may not have the power over. I am not so concerned about your accusations because your just blowing wet diarrhea out your mouth and it is obvious, but I will say this, I am beginning to clearly understand the commitment shared by those who would see harm done to Americans, You guys are a bunch of Assholes and you are MY home support!!
Put yourselves in my shoes for ONE MINUTE, what Am I supposed to think huh?
I committed my life to defending you and this is how you respond to me. It would seem that the only love and support offered the fighting men are from those who place a value on my life and choose not to see me killed for nothing. Thank You Jude and the REAL sensible "Liberal" crew. I feel like at least YOU guys would give a shit if I were to die for this Noble cause in Iraq. I have come to the conclusion that my Commandeer in Chief might likely call my mother a Stupid Bitch if she wanted to know why I died. That is Not acceptable to me and I must assure you that it DOES and WILL affect my future decisions in fighting for YOU.
SO go ahead, call me a terrorist and make yet another enemy in the world, I would love NOTHING better than to sit down with Nalle and his two grandfathers they in their Uniforms and me in mine and have a man to man conversation on what the right thing to do for America is, because I tell you that I would HIGHLY RESPECT the words of those two war hero's.
I am trying very hard to focus on what the right thing to do is, but some of you and your flippant comments make things difficult. You do not represent what I stand for in America, you are smart ass scared stay at home key board soldiers. Who would most likely faint at the first sight of a limb blown off or whatever other tragedy befalls us "American Terrorists" I am Not going to fight for you anymore!!
You go sacrifice your own blood in your own wars, this is NOT defending America and I won't do it anymore.
Call me whatever names you want to, it in no way changes the commitments I have fulfilled in my life but I assure you one thing it WILL affect my future decisions.
Scott!!
738 - Effendi
>>"So EFFENDI is now SCOTT; aka Mohamed the terrorist."
But check out his website, we now know what his life is all about:
www.effendi.com
he's a pedophile, isn't that just great?<<
How old are you mr sane and sensible?
You must be in your 40's at least and this is your idea of intelligent conversation?
I am embarrassed and ashamed to attempt to carry on a serious conversation with you that involves the lives of people I love and respect.
This is some big joke to you, it is a Life Commitment to me. You can go back to your chutes and ladders, I have to decide whether or not I made a mistake in committing my life to YOUR defense.
(Shakes head in pain and confusion)
739 - Joe
Sorry, that was pretty lame, even the first time around. Perhaps when choosing a nickname you should google it first. After all, that was the #1 listing when searching "effendi".
I'm not SF qualified and never served in a SFG so maybe it's none of my business but when I Google 5th SFG it has their website showing them as being at Campbell not Bragg, what's up with that? They say on the internet no one has to know you're a dog, you're not trying to pull a fast one are you?
740 - Effendi
Would it really matter if I was Joe?
And regardless to what I ever say or said, would you or anyone believe anything that didn't fit into their own preconceived agenda.
5th Group is at Ft Campbell and have been since 1988, I am a Tab holder and Trained QCourse at Bragg in 1985 Under the Command of General Davis. I am Currently in Washington!!
My qualification or lack thereof in the eyes of a believer really hold no bearing on the truth and feelings I have displayed.
If I were (as suggested) a "Terrorist" my thoughts and concerns would not center around the mother of fallen comrades, I would expect the logical to have come to that conclusion.
If I were a lying dog, and none of what I have told you were true, what would it matter considering you really do not know who I am and your consideration of me could have no bearing on my future or yours.
Although I have said things that you may not have considered saying, I assure you that I am who I say I am. And I assure you that if I were but a 20 year military potato peeler, It would not change the love and protection I feel of a fellows mother.
If I were just as you put it "trying to pull a fast one", what would be my motivation or reward? Especially remaining anonymous.
De Oppresso Liber!!
All the way Sir!!
741 - MCH
Effendi (Scott);
Check out my comment #692 (above) in response to an earlier question by yourself.
742 - Joe
Certainly, it matters. You don't have to say a word about your background and I'll consider what you say. If you say you're a soldier, I'll look for other common ground. I had reason to doubt you when you said you were from Bragg, but I gave you the benefit of the doubt. I had reason to doubt you when you said you'd never heard of Mike T(The only detachment commander from 5th Group killed in Iraq), again, I gave you the benefit of the doubt. Now you say your in Washington, not Bragg. I don't know, you tell me why I should believe a single word you say. Ask Micah Wright about the motivation or reward, I don't know. I just know that someone that would do that is beneath contempt.
743 - Effendi
MCH, thank You, Good Post!!
Joe, If the words I speak hold credibility for you, than they ring true.
If the words I speak contradict your commitment then of course you display doubt.
This isn't about ME, if my message so hinges on my credentials rather than the meat of the message than continue to waste your time investigating me, You SHOULD be investigating the lies of those who support the murder of Americans.
I am sorry that the intentional holes I have left in my identification (for my own security) have left you with fodder in which to attack my message.
So let me ask you this, If I am indeed currently in Washington and my career is as I have described does it strengthen or lessen my words?
If I am an Asian pedophile as the www.effendi.com suggestion projects does that make it easier to disregard the words I speak?
You should look into your own self Joe and ask yourself if you are comfortable with the explanations offered us as commanders or pedophiles yet nonetheless Americans.
Would you feel better about yourself and the way President bush has treated the American people if you were to find out I was a sexual deviant?
Would you feel better about yourself if you found out that I was who I suggested to you I was regarding the lies put out by the Bush Administration?
As a fellow trooper I appreciate your interest in my career. I have the same interest in yours, however who WE are does NOT change the message delivered by this Administration.
It is unfortunate that who I am is so much more important to to than the death of our fellows. This is sad indeed. As A True Patriotic American that you propose to be, I suggest that your investigations and future interests lie in what is best for America and not in who you can smear and attempt to discredit.
This "Rove Tactic" of smearing others that do not agree with you is juvenile and does more to redirect attention from the real issues at hand.
Whether a king or a pauper, I am a True American Patriot and every post I type would reflect that. And THAT is the real issue here.
Scott!!
744 - Joe
All I know is that you've lied to me.
Intential holes, uhuh, why not just come up with a credible cover story, sort of like what a real operator would do?
745 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
Joe; you've been had by an internet phony and fraud. I knew he wasn't true the moment I first read him. I am a very shrewd judge of character. I can spot people like this a mile away. Effendi is a Muslim clown doing the jihad's work over the internet. These creeps are everywhere trying to subvert our people and country's morale. I've had run-ins with his ilk on other websites and they all sound exactly the same.
You've been warned.
746 - Joe
Having read some of your stuff, I think you're a crank, too. But at least your an honest crank.
747 - Dave Nalle
>>So I guess we can accept from the last couple of posts that the word "Dave" pretty much = Idiot!!<<
And I love you too.
>>Nalle, your suggestion that, "the best way to get at Saudi Arabia and Iran and Syria IS to attack Iraq." is Absolute INSANE thinking. <<
No, it's strategic thinking.
>>Let me erase your verbal twists and put it out in ENGLISH:
If Syria attacks America the best way to deal with Syria is to Attack Syria,, not Spain or Portugal...
If Saudi Arabia attacks America, the best way to deal with Saudi is to cut the obvious long standing Bush-Bin Laden ties and attack Saudi Arabia...Not Iraq or Quebec or some unrelated scenario.<<
Did Syria or Saudi Arabia or Iraq attack America? No. America was attacked by a group of terrorists who were born in Saudi Arabia, trained in Afghanistan and funded by Iran and Iraq. The terrorists are not merely citizens of one country, but the product of a network of terrorism supporting countries which included Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Saudi Arabia - plus Palestine, Yemen and to some extent Pakistan. We are not at war with one of those states, we are at war with the terrorist network which spreads through all of them. Each of those nations has its own independent government which either turns a blind eye to terrorism or actively supports it. All of those nations have relatively open borders and make no efforts to stop weapons, money and people from crossing from one to the other to reach terrorist training camps or targets. So when we invade Iraq, we're not just invading that country, we're striking right at the heart of the terrorist network and disrupting their activities.
How can you not see this. It's basic and obvious if you're at all familiar with the region and what's going on there.
>>What is wrong with you revisionists?<<
We actually read international newspapers and foreign policy studies?
>>You have twisted your minds so much you refuse to accept the real threat and candy coat it, yet convince yourself that your September 11 anger is properly justified by attacking a third world regime like Iraq.<<
The people who are confused are the ones who try to reduce this to a war on Iraq. That's not what it is. The attack on Iraq is just the main front in an attack on the terrorist network in the region.
It works to the political benefit of the left to try to present this as a misguided attack on Iraq, but to anyone who is informed it's quite clear that Iraq is merely a means to an end.
>>And dave...dave...dave.
You have NO IDEA who I am, I may be no one I may be someone but rest assured be very glad that I am not a terrorist, because if I were there would be NOTHING to stop me from putting my training into action should I so choose. <<
Are you threatening me in some way? I never threatened you, and for that matter you have no idea who I am, so why are you taking this so personally. I realize I've challenged the illusions you've been spoon fed by the leftist elite, but I'm just hoping you'll think a little bit and see that there's a lot more going on in the world than you realize.
Dave
748 - Effendi
It is so much easier to dismiss than to consider the truth.
I have not lied even one time in this Blog or anywhere else
In Post 259 I honestly told you that I did not Know Mike Tarlavskey, this does not make me a liar it simply means I did not know him.
In #254 while discussing running down Long Street as a Member of Special Forces, you state that you haven't "run down Longstreet in 10 years" yet later in post# 739 you state "I'm not SF qualified and never served in a SFG" Now One might consider there to be a lie in there somewhere and if I were willing to play your game I would call it a lie but I'm a different kind of man than that. I go under the assumption that a person is telling the truth until he is proven to have lied.
Logic would dictate that you ran Long Street as a leg or perhaps even a Paratrooper but if I played your game I could twist into appearing to be a lie from you although most likely the truth.
I have NOT lied to you once Joe and I am sorry that you feel the right to post such a statement with no proof or suggestion to back those words. I am an Honorable man and felt you were before such a baseless accusation.
As to your question of, >>"Intentional holes, uhuh, why not just come up with a credible cover story, sort of like what a real operator would do?<<
My answer is I'm not trying to sell you anything, If I were a "Plant" or a "rove" I would have come up with a much more convincing lie.
The truth is simply that...the truth and just because everything doesn't fit in with what YOU know does not make it a lie.
I have given a glimpse into my life simply as a reference to some of things I have said, not because I am trying to get you to leave the "Dark Side" you are a grown man for God's sake and only YOU can decide if you want to live the truth or perpetuate a lie.
Mark the insane and inpalatable:
You are as shrewd a judge of character as any I've seen...lol. You got me pegged as a Muslim Terrorist and an Internet fraud..lol
Try Zyprexa or Trazadone or any other number of Anti-Psychotic drugs available today.
The BEST thing about this thread is that it is rather obvious that most everyone here is a logical thinking person and have made decisions based on the truth they accept. Kudo's to those of you who are true to yourself and sleep well at night.
Joe, I must say that people that steal expect to get things stolen and people that lie believe everyone else to be a liar.
Scott!!
749 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
If you know about real life, you already know that when people repeatedly go to ridiculous lengths to convince others that aren't lying, then they likely are lying.
A person in possession of the truth doesn't have to convince others or doesn't care that others are convinced, that is of course, they are in a court of law.
750 - billy
"If you know about real life, you already know that when people repeatedly go to ridiculous lengths to convince others that aren't lying, then they likely are lying."
yes, like george bush going to ridiculous lengths to show how he didnt lie us into iraq.
751 - MCH
Joe;
As long as you're investigating folks' backgrounds (which if fine, we all need a reason to be), check out here
Since you're so into "the truth."
752 - Joe
Look, I'm a terrible amateur detective but look at it from my side:
A guy pops into an internet conversation claiming to be a paratrooper. That's cool.
Then later on he identifies himself as SF. That's a little odd, usually a guy will identify as one or the other but not both (I mean 3 weeks training vs. 1+ year training), but this is the internet, so whatever.
So I brought it up with you, to which you responded you were with 5th Group at Fort Bragg. I was stationed at Bragg from 94 to 96 and knew 5th Group was at Campbell and 3rd and 7th were at Bragg but given Bragg and Campbell are both hellholes figured you mispoke. So I made the correction but you responded that 5th and 7th were at Bragg. It's minor but this is pretty much common knowledge in the SF community. You'd be pretty hard pressed to convince me that an SF trooper is not going to know his own unit org chart.
Since you said you were in 5th Group I figured you might have known Mike T., so I asked, I'm not necessarily surprised you don't know him, but it's kind of shocking to think that you'd have never heard of him, which your response indicated.
Lastly, it's the whole quiet professionals thing. A 20+ year active SF soldier wouldn't be venting to a bunch of civilians on the internet. Do you think the things you've said are approriate or professional? Would you want your subordinates to read it? Would you want your peers or commander to read it?
Like I said I'm a crappy amateur detective, and certainly I could be wrong but given what we have, what are the chances?
753 - Effendi
I have one response for you Joe:
Those who question the war must be silenced at best, or at least discredited and vilified.
754 - Joe
Spoken like a true paratrooper.
755 - MCH
"Vietnam is a bad war...it can't be won. We need to get out."
- Colonel David Hackworth on the TV show ISSUES and ANSWERS in 1971
The late Colonel Hackworth's (1930-2005) military credentials:
**8 Purple Hearts
**10 Silver Stars
**8 Bronze Stars
**2 Distinguished Service Crosses
**26 years in the U.S. Army
**7 years of combat in three different wars (WWII, Korea, Vietnam)
756 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
"yes, like george bush going to ridiculous lengths to show how he didnt lie us into iraq."
He didn't lie, billy, and you are a dumbass for trying to say he did.
"Rebuilding America's Defenses" by the DoD has been available to read for years, long before we went into Iraq. But then again, that's assuming you can read. I may be in error there.
757 - Scott
"The people who are confused are the ones who try to reduce this to a war on Iraq. That's not what it is. The attack on Iraq is just the main front in an attack on the terrorist network in the region"
***cough***bullshit***cough
whew...I had something in my throat...I think it's gone now
758 - Effendi
Hey Mark, do you have a life other than running around cutting people down as an apologist for a liar?
Bush DID Lie, and YOU look like an Idiot for denying it like the nose on your face.
I just scanned through some of the other blogs and you are a blubbering idiot on ALL of them.
You offend people and bully them back and forth if they don't agree with you, you are obviously one of the people who got beat up a lot in school.
I am NOT impressed by a bully and know that guys like you are so easily handled in the real world.
Go ahead and try to retort with some retarded smart ass answer as you seem so inclined to do.
There is NO ONE here impressed with your pushing the ladies and gents around. Your opinion is simply that JUST ANOTHER OPINION.
It's ironic that you claim to be sane and sensible because from what I have seen in your responses you require psychiatric help.
I would advise others that the BEST way to deal with psychosis such as yours is to simply ignore you, let you rant and rave and offend your own keyboard.
Do you have any REAL world friends that hang around you and do you belittle and pound them on the head with your views? It's no wonder you are on here so much, I wouldn't want to know you for real.
It's a nice day outside, put down the keyboard and take the dog for a walk.
PS: I'm not going to fight with you either I'm going to take my own advice and enjoy a nice warm August evening!!
Scott!!
759 - Dave Nalle
>>"Vietnam is a bad war...it can't be won. We need to get out."<<
Yes, MCH - by all means let's get out of Vietnam as soon as possible. We could use those troops in Iraq.
Scott/Effendi: "It's a nice day outside, put down the keyboard and take the dog for a walk."
It's 105 degrees outside and my dog died of heat exhaustion on Saturday. Thanks for reminding me.
Dave
760 - KYS
Dave-
That's awful. I'm so sorry...
(I'm hoping you were kidding...)
761 - Jude
An overwhelming number of people say critics of the Iraq war should be free to voice their objections. Nearly three weeks after a grieving California mother named Cindy Sheehan started her anti-war protest near Bush's Texas ranch, nine of 10 people surveyed in the AP-Ipsos poll say it's OK for war opponents to share publicly their concerns about the conflict.
[LINK]
762 - Dave Nalle
>>Dave-
That's awful. I'm so sorry...
(I'm hoping you were kidding...)<<
Sad but true, KYS. But she was 13 and had lived a good, long life. The summers here are just hard on big, hairy dogs, I'm afraid.
Dave
763 - Dave Nalle
Finally Jude posts something I can agree with. I imagine almost everyone here agrees that Cindy Sheehan and other protestors have an absolute right to have their say.
What people don't seem to agree on is whether it's appropriate for people to point out that when some of these protestors speak it's not so much a personal expression as it is a cynical repetition of propaganda generated by political interests who are basically just using them to advance a very negative agenda.
It's the propaganda and the agenda which people object to - not the genuine and personal free expression which some are engaging in.
Dave
764 - Jude
Dave - I'm really sorry to hear about your old girl. I lost my dog almost two years ago - he was nearly 17 years old...and I miss him still.
~~~~~~~~~~~
"I came across a photograph of him not long ago, his black face with the long snout sniffing at something in the air, his tail straight and pointing, his eyes flashing in some momentary excitement. Looking at a faded photograph taken more than forty years before, even as a grown man, I would admit I still missed him."
Willie Morris / Excerpt from "My Dog Skip"
765 - Dave Nalle
17 years is pretty impressive. If Shelby had gone on much longer she'd have faced a lot of health problems. She was already having issues with displasia and chronic respiratory problems, so it'sprobably just as well that she went peacefully in her sleep.
Now back to the endless arguing - all this dog talk is way too sensible.
Dave
766 - Anthony Grande
"Anthony, Anthony, Anthony.
Just listen to you.
I had a feeling rightwing boobs such as yourself would get desperate, but I never suspected how low you'd sink." by Jude
I wouldn't call myself desperate. I'd call anyone who supports Sheehan is desperate.
Know let me rephraise a statement: Cindy Sheehan wasn't in Casey's life while Casey was growing up. She didn't RAISE the boy.
Obviosly I can't talk to the dead, but I can make an educated guess and say Casey was in favor of the cause in Iraq since after he came home he reenlisted to go finish the job.
Also, Cindy's three other sons have publicly disowned her. So I can assume Casey would do the same.
767 - RogerMDillion
I'd call anyone who writes a sentence like, "I'd call anyone who supports Sheehan is desperate" a young kid who should focus on his high school English.
768 - Anthony Grande
"Anthony,
You are tremendously astute for only 16 years old. Have you any political ambitions?", by MCH
Thank you and yes I have political ambitions. I am probabally one of ten conservative 16 year olds in Southern California. Liberals would do anything to stop me from moving up in politics. They fear I might actually make this a better place.
Enfendi
"What's your problem with a mother who lost her son? What if you were in his position and dies, If YOUR mother decided to take a stand what If I called her an "Insane (negative whatever)" How would that make YOU feel?" by Enfendi
My mom is not political. She is a registered democrat who voted for Bush. I love her more than anything and I highly dought that she would associate herself with the likes of Michael Moore and MoveOn.org. My mom is not a sell out. But I would make sure she gets help if she becomes a two faced b****
769 - Dave Nalle
>>Know let me rephraise a statement: Cindy Sheehan wasn't in Casey's life while Casey was growing up. She didn't RAISE the boy.<<
But but she just said she did on Bill Maher!
Dave
770 - D.C.
This is what Americans are getting tired of. Constant political angling of everything. The kook fringe, Like Moore, Maher, Franken and the like just don't stop. Don't you leftists have some fake documents to give Dan Rather or something? The play book you guys use is just getting so old. Who would reaaly want to be a liberal? You people are just so nasty and hateful. You need some Glen Beck, Michael Savage, Rush or maybe get yourselves Hannitized.
771 - Jude
The gossip I'm hearing about the role Mrs. Sheehan played in her son's life is only a further play to smear her. She is and has always been his mom. As much as I think soem of you woudl like to wipe that fact away, it will always be true. And I believe that D.C. in comment #770 is right, in the sense that this whole thing has become a circus bringing out the loudest extremists on either side. The problem is have with what DC said is that the Hannitys and the Limbaughs are extremists. DC clearly needs to take the mote out of the eye.
This is a case where we should all be realizing that we are Americans with common values.
What you'll see in Crawford today are rallies with parents of fallen soldiers on opposing sides on Iraq.
This is the result of our President deliberately dividing Americans every day, playing directly into the hands of extremists here in America.
It isn't Cindy Sheehan emboldening the people who are begging for reasonable answers to reasonable questions about Iraq - - it is the President and his administration who have emboldened them by offering them no answers to their questions.
It is the President who is ultimately responsible for the WWF-like dueling rallies in Crawford today. He has obviously failed to rally this nation, in a united purpose. It doesn't get much worse than when it comes to something like this.
Every rationale for war in Iraq has blown away with the slightest of breezes. If we don't stand up and cry foul, we are not doing our civic duty as American citizens. Our troops deserve no less than truth and clarity of purpose.
772 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
"This is the result of our President deliberately dividing Americans every day, playing directly into the hands of extremists here in America."
No, it's YOU and creeps like you that are ruining this country's morale and galvanizing the resolve of our enemies. It is people like Cindy Sheehan and her followers that are traitors. They should be locked up for sedition now!
773 - Dave Nalle
Jude, the president strings the extremists along and continues to steer a moderate course in reality. Where one arth did you get the idea that he caters to the extremists. He won't even show up at a pro life rally ferchissakes.
Dave
774 - Jude
When you say a "moderate course", it does not apply to the discussion of the Iraq war. There is no "moderate" war.
Not that I believe his overall course is moderate. Mr. Bush is pushing some pretty radical policies - I don't even call them conservative policies because so many conservatives are questioning them.
That said, I have followed every word of the President's since he came to office. He speaks to only those who will promise to listen without any challenge. Many Americans are kept away from his public appearances for fear they will have a challenging question or two. In the UK, Tony Blair has faced his own citizens - even those who were downright angry with him for decisions he's made. He looked them in the eye and answered their questions. Bush appearances are choreographed - he will face no one who may have a reasonable challenge to some of his all-too-lofty and slogan-like 'Stepford' rhetoric. He has never encouraged a real public debate. A White House insider has said he calls anyone who challenges him on Iraq (like Cindy Sheehan) "a motherf***ing traitor". There comes a time when a good leader has to realize that he must stop stringing extremists along - because it's dividing his nation. Bush is either not capable or not desiring to see his nation united in this Iraq cause...because he is failing miseraby.
775 - Jude
Mark-
OK. So you think I'm a creep. Good for you.
I have given up on attempting to discuss this matter civilly with you because you simply cannot be civil.
I don't believe you're willing to or capable of tapping into what is common to all Americans, and I recognize that you will never listen to a word I say. When it's only a choice of your way or the highway, all I can say is I'll see you out on the highway with the majority of civil Americans.