The pre-election and exit polls are frequently wrong. Vote for whomever you wish, but vote (once and legally)!
We have all heard of the Bradley Effect — the polls suggest that there will be more votes cast for Senator Obama than actually will be: Senator Obama is Black, and since some poll respondents do not wish to be considered racist they conceal their true intentions. Although difficult if not impossible to quantify rigorously, there is probably something to the theory.…
Article comments
76 - Dan(Miller)
Re Comment #72
Well, now it has made the LA Times.
Voter registration fraud is bad, regardless of by whom or on whose behalf it is accomplished. Anyone who is convicted of it should be punished severely.
Dan(Miller)
77 - DaveNalle
Pablo, you really have some strange issues. I haven't even posted on this thread in several days. How are my opinions even relevant to this discussion which I haven't been contributing to?
But for the record, I agree that individual prosecutions for voter registration fraud are ultimately fruitless. They allow ACORN to maintain this plausible deniability of the false division between the action of their workers and their policies which promote those actions.
The way to take ACORN down is through the RICO laws, which was attempted in Ohio. The act of conspiring on a nationwide basis to commit fraud is the issue which needs to be pursued if the goal is to shut ACORN down.
Dave
78 - Cannonshop
#77 Pablo, you really have some strange issues. I haven't even posted on this thread in several days. How are my opinions even relevant to this discussion which I haven't been contributing to?
Could it be unrequited love? A desperate, romantic yearning turned bad? Maybe he needs a girl or guy in his own age-group, a peer, who might return his affections?
But for the record, I agree that individual prosecutions for voter registration fraud are ultimately fruitless. They allow ACORN to maintain this plausible deniability of the false division between the action of their workers and their policies which promote those actions.
The problem here, is proving prior knowledge sufficiently to pursue effective (as opposed to ineffectual) prosecution. ACORN has a lot of Legal types in their hierarchy, and you can bet they make sure the national organization is well-insulated. Lower-echelon people get caught, but the leadership is 'safe' because there's no documentation linking them to the misdeeds, and nobody 'mid level' willing to testify or gather evidence. Since busting "Community Organizers" isn't as sexy as busting mobsters, it's unlikely that any legitimate (or viewed as legitimate) authority is going to conduct any sort of effective undercover penetration (as has been required for RICO prosecutions in the past). Since the direct motive of the leadership isn't financial, there's damn little paper trail that can be uncovered through financial investigations, and without serious penalties in Federal Law for Electioneering, there's no reason for anyone to cooperate with a RICO investigation.
79 - MaineIacinAK
History suggests that ACORN's antics might lead to "widespread voter disenfranchisement" of a different type. Imagine thousands of registered voters of a particular party not casting a ballot. What does that mean? It must mean they were PREVENTED FROM VOTING! VOTER DISENFRANCHISEMENT! FRAUD!
If McCain wins, and it's close, watch out. There will be riots in the streets, and screaming and pointing to the number of "registered voters" from these districts who didn't cast a vote.
80 - bliffle
Has anyone shown that fraudulent registration leads to fraudulent voting? Has Mr. Mickey Mouse shown up at the polls to cast his fraudulent vote?
Has anyone shown that ACORN TELLS their canvassers to make frudulent registrations.
As I understand it, ACORN considers 20 registrations a day as the quota for canvassers. When their production drops to around 8-12 they are in danger of being fired.
ACORN maintains a database of photo images of all registration forms for each canvasser and makes those available to voting authorities and DAs.
By law ACORN must pass on registrations to voting authorities.
81 - Dave Nalle
Has anyone shown that fraudulent registration leads to fraudulent voting? Has Mr. Mickey Mouse shown up at the polls to cast his fraudulent vote?
Again, Bliffle, this is not the purpose of the fraudulent registrations. They are there to make registration verification impossible, not so that the fraudulently registered nonexistent people can vote.
Has anyone shown that ACORN TELLS their canvassers to make frudulent registrations.
As much as 80% of the registrations ACORN processes are fraudulent. That's far too many to be coincidence. Even if it's just because they hire criminals and drug addicts and pay them on a per registration basis without adequate supervision, that method of doing business is essentially designed to produce bogus registrations.
As I understand it, ACORN considers 20 registrations a day as the quota for canvassers. When their production drops to around 8-12 they are in danger of being fired.
A system guaranteed to generate fraudulent registrations.
By law ACORN must pass on registrations to voting authorities.
Not in all states, but so what? They wouldn't be processing all of these registrations if they didn't intend to turn them in.
Dave
82 - Dave Nalle
On consideration it seems quite likely that nothing will be done about ACORN until the FBI gets someone undercover in the organization as they did with subversive groups in the 60s or with the mob in several prominent instances. It's going to take that kind of inside testimony to shut them down.
Dave
83 - bliffle
You're grasping at straws, Dave.
84 - Dave Nalle
It takes straw to make brick, Bliffle.
Dave
85 - Lisa Solod Warren
Read THIS and weep. And THIS.
86 - Lisa Solod Warren
Want MORE? and AGAIN .
87 - Lisa Solod Warren
How about this GEM?
88 - bliffle
I suspect that the FBI infiltrated ACORN many years ago, knowing their penchant for spying on leftist political organizations.
What is remarkable is that no successful prosecutions developed.
89 - Clavos
Yet.
90 - Cindy D
More W.Va. voters say machines are switching votes In six cases, Democratic votes flipped to GOP
This is the second West Virginia county where voters have reported this problem. Last week, three voters in Jackson County told The Charleston Gazette their electronic vote for "Barack Obama" kept flipping to "John McCain".
In both counties, Republicans are responsible for overseeing elections. Both county clerks said the problem is isolated.
They also blamed voters for not being more careful.
Those silly Obama voters.
91 - Cindy D
Lisa,
That 1st one at #85 yikes!
92 - Cindy D
It's already Stolen
- Since the last presidential race, "States used dubious 'list management' rules to scrub at least 10 million voters from their rolls."
Among those was Paul Maez of Las Vegas, New Mexico - a victim of an unreported but devastating purge of voters in that state that left as many as one in nine Democrats without a vote. For Maez, the state's purging his registration was particularly shocking - he's the county elections supervisor.
93 - Pablo
Sure has been quiet on this forum lately regarding ACORN. Hmmm I wonder why.
Could it be that the right wingers had one of their own caught red handed doing voter registration fraud in California. I know, I was the first guy on here to bring it to light.
I just love how HYPOCRITICAL and smarmy most republicans are (neo-cons and yer typical main stream variety) when they get caught with their pants down.
ACORN my ass
94 - El Bicho
"the FBI gets someone undercover in the organization as they did with subversive groups in the 60s or with the mob in several prominent instances. It's going to take that kind of inside testimony to shut them down."
The mob was shut down?
Pablo, surely they are doing research and working on hard on their articles of wrong-doing by the right in this matter because otherwise they would look like partisan hacks who don't put country first.
95 - Dave Nalle
The guy in California who was arrested wasn't engaging in the same sort of activities as ACORN. He actually personally committed election fraud by all accounts, plus he seems to have been some sort of psycho/moron.
Republicans just aren't good at election fraud.
And as for these voter purges, they are likely the direct result of what ACORN is doing - they may even be what ACORN is trying to provoke.
Dave
96 - Pablo
Dave said:
"Republicans just aren't good at election fraud."
Now thats the funniest thing I have read in ages!
I would call it chutzpha but the raw hypocrisy and arrogance is just toooooooo much!
Thanks Dave, I just love it when you show your true colors, which is usually. smirk :)
97 - Pablo
Oh and by the way Dave, I was watching one of the MSM news channels tonight, and they had a story both on the 57,000 voters that were illegally culled from the rolls in Florida, and how the republicans are actually removing millions of voters across the states, in their third effort to fix the election. Thats MSM bubba, not my man Alex Jones.
You can live in denial all you want, but the facts speak for themselves Nalle.
98 - bliffle
Clavos embarrasses himself again in #89:
Referring to lack of prosecutions against ACORN despite all the accusations and FBI infiltrations:
"Yet."
ACORN has been around about 25 years, Clavos, how long will it take for your sterling gossip-mongers to dig up some REAL evidence?
99 - moon
The ACORN stuff has been debunked ad nauseum on other internet sites--CommonDreams for one.
But hope springs eternal in the breasts of the folks who use this site as a forum to just make stuff up.
Same old same old.
100 - Jet
Bliffle, didn't you know that Obama founded ACORN in Hawaii when he was born before it was a state so he can't run legally for president. He's the direct descendant of a japanese pilot that crash landed after Pearl Harbor? His mother founded a terrorst group that smuggled terrorists in from Iraq, that's why his middle name is Hussein, because she knew Saddam would be as powerful as he is way back in 1961!!!
If you believe that, I'll inform you that all registered Republicans have been requested by the Secretary of State to vote on Nov. 5th in order to eleviate the congestion in the pollinb booth lines.
101 - Dave Nalle
Pablo, I can say to your 'illegal' cullings the same thing that Bliffle says to the accusations against ACORN. They can't be illegal because no one has been convicted or even prosecuted yet.
And moon, Commondreams is anything but a credible source.
What I find most amusing today about the ACORN business is that after Obama's lies about his ACORN associations in the last debate, the former director of ACORN for Chicago came out and detailed his actual involvement, showing how he had misrepresented his association with them.
The facts are established. What ACORN is up to is abundantly clear. You can lie like Obama and try to distance yourself, or you can fall back on halfwitted denials like Bliffle, but the truth will win in the end.
Dave
102 - moon
Nalle,
CommonDreams publishes mainstream articles.
A lot of the folks are just plastic progressives, but even so it is considerably more credible than Blogcritics.
Ad hominem arguments--of which your is one (dismissing the information because of the source--for example, you can't be right because you are a lefty or your are an Indian or you are a academic or you are a PAID writer, etc etc etc), are not acceptable in debate.
If you were not so closed-minded [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor], you would perhaps draw upon what's left of your analytical abilities to CHECK IT OUT before dismissing it.
It would also be appropriate to REFUTE something that is being argued rather than just taking your habitual approach and vilifying anything and anybody who doesn't agree with you.
I hate to be the one to break it to you, but Dave Nalle is not the measure of factual legitimacy.
103 - Pablo
[Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor] I will attempt to respond to several of my detractors.
Comment 48 by Cannon:
"Clavos, just remember- Pablo believes in the 'Troothers, it's not hard to see how he would believe in other looney conspiracy theory bullshit."
Aside from the fact that I do not believe in the tooth fairy (official government lie about 9/11), and that I do assert that for all intents and purposes that the CFR controls and directs US policy both domestically and internationally for their JP Morgan wall street friends, does not mean that the republican party through Katherine Harris and Choicepoint did not cull over 57,000 voters from casting their vote in Florida in 2000, most of which were ILLEGAL, ie that they had the right to vote.
I have made your job a little easier cannon for you to research it yourself. Over 80 articles in the MSM about it for your perousal.
How the republicans stole the 2000 election
The above reference is for you too Bicho
Post 65 by Dan(Miller)
The embedded hyperlink is to WSJ.com, last time I checked this so called news organization is nothing more than a mouthpiece for Rupert Murdoch and company, and anything that they spew out is more than likely garbage on its face.
Comment #77 by Dave Nalle:
"Pablo, you really have some strange issues. I haven't even posted on this thread in several days. How are my opinions even relevant to this discussion which I haven't been contributing to?"
Davey, you will always get special treatment from me for two reasons. The first being that you are the political editor of this website, and thus are held to a higher degree of scrutiny by me, and you are sadly lacking in any degree of lucidity, integrity, or quite frankly honesty. And since you have been raggin on for weeks about the ACORN bullshit, I include you in my comments. Not to mention since I first started writing on this site you personally attacked me instead of debating me on the issues. It would be one thing for a normal writer to attack me, but since you are the editor I find it repugnant and respond in kind.
I do find it funny how you refuted Moon by saying that Commondreams is anything but a credible source. I wonder what you do think is a credible source. The National Review mayhaps? Or could it be Foreign Affairs magainze? God only knows what credible means to you. LOL
Finally post #101 by Davey:
"They can't be illegal because no one has been convicted or even prosecuted yet."
Uhhh does that mean that if I have 20 acres out in the back 40 just oozing forth THC on sweet sinsemilla flowers about to harvest that they arent illegal cuz I havent been convicted or prosecuted yet? Is that what you mean Davey?
Try using your head for a change.
bye for now.
104 - Christopher Rose
I have exhausted my patience with this whole "bubba" riff and now I'm done.
Pablo - please knock it off now.
105 - Pablo
Once a bubba always a bubba I always say. :)
106 - Dave Nalle
And since you have been raggin on for weeks about the ACORN bullshit,
Actually, I've been on ACORN's case for four years, Pablo, starting with their involvement in the massive fraud in the midwest states in the 2004 election. The rest of the world is just catching up.
And Pablo, if you were paying any attention at all you'd have seen that #101 is merely an application of Bliffle's lame argument in defense of ACORN as an equally lame argument in defense of the scrubbers, purgers and cagers.
Dave
107 - Pablo
Don't worry Christopher the censors here have already determined that using the phrase bubba can be a personal attack as I had several instances of this word deleted from the above post.
The hypocrisy oozes out of the comments editor. I have been called so many names on here by the Political editor, including the following:
nazi, tinfoil hat, nut, dumb, paranoid and others as well. Seeing as how this double standard has reached the level of absurdness, I will take this issue up personally with Eric Olson now. I have refrained in the past, but now its absurd. I have corresponded with Eric before, and found him to be alot more civil, and decent than the political editor on this site. I will report back what he has to say, after I have composed my email to him, and done enough research using google to bring up the countless instances of personal attacks that Nalle has sent my way, and not one of them ever has been rescinded.
Not only were my refrences to certain bubbas censored, the editor didnt even have the decency to make a citation.
I do want to thank you Mr. comment editor for showing me your double standard, which I have suspected for months now.
108 - Christopher Rose
Pablo, you do know I'm the Comments Editor, right?
I try to allow as much leeway as possible in the comments we publish, particularly in the rough house we know as BC politics.
If you think I have made a mistake, by all means take it up with Eric if you wish. Or, if you are a signed up BC writer, you can contact me directly through our internal system and I am always happy to explain or reconsider my decision. I might not do anything different, but I will definitely reconsider.
I think if you look carefully enough you'll find that Dave gets edited as much as or, given the high number of comments he makes, possibly even more than most.
however, as for "bubba", it's the constant repetition, to say nothing of the attitude it conveys, that has broken this boy's back, so let's just say it has outlived its usefulness and move on.
109 - Pablo
Christopher,
So I guess tinfoil hat is ok eh? Or any of the other adjectives I referenced. I use bubba because that is the word that I choose to use. It certainly is not as offensive as many of the names that Nalle calls people on a constant basis, which I will reference fully in my letter to Eric, that disagree with him. You didn't even have the decency to put in your edited by comments editor regarding the bubbas, bubba.
Yes I will personally take this up with Mr. Olson, as you have shown yourself to be biased, and if bubba is a personal attack, then what's not? huh?
No I won't move on.
110 - Christopher Rose
You're right, I should possibly have put my standard [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor] insert in, but there were so many instances it would have been tedious to read.
Everyone is biased, indeed I think it is acceptable to be biased. Prejudice, however, is not.
I think I'm maintaining a balanced approach and treat people from all perspectives equally, regardless of whether or not I agree with them. I rarely agree with Dave about much to do with politics for instance, but then I don't agree with you either.
111 - troll
oi
come on Chris - 'bubba' is Pablo's calling card...you've overstepped here
112 - Christopher Rose
Well, troll, if Pablo is actually Jewish, maybe so, but I rather think it was the first meaning found in this extract from Wikipedia on the word bubba that was the meaning he intended.
And, to end with another, more local, quote: "Please think of the comments as a conversation between individuals and interact with civility." Sure, we argy and we bargy but this bubbery has got to stop, bubbale.
113 - Clavos
"reference" is not a verb...
114 - Dave Nalle
I live in Texas. Around here being called 'bubba' is commonplace and is not considered an insult. It's slang for 'brother' - equivalent to a yankee calling someone 'bro' or 'buddy' or for Christopher calling someone 'mate'.
Now, I realize Pablito means it as an insult, but all it does is show his ignorance of southern culture that he thinks it's insulting. It's actually kind of amusing because it suggests to the southern reader that he shares my beliefs and is expressing his solidarity with me.
Dave
115 - Pablo
I am quite sure in your neck o the woods bubba is an endearing term Davey. Where I come from it is used to describe exactly the kind of person you are.
If your curious, which I doubt that you are, I have used it because I have been personally attacked by you and you boy, for months, instead of either ignoring me or engaging me on the issues of the day.
I bite back.
I will leave it up to the owner of the site to decide, and should he decide in your favor, I will simply stop posting on this blog. I consider your behaviour hypocritical to the extreme, and very unbecoming for the political editor of the site. Perhaps you should do one or the other, as it is you do both terribly.
I will find at least 30 instances of you Dave insulting a commentator, and see what Eric has to say. I did not do it earlier in the interest of civility, however I am being censored for saying
Bubba for christ's sake. LOL
Is it any more of an insult for me to call you bubba, than for you to call me a tinfoil hat dude, particularly when bubba fits you to a t Davey boy. Not to mention all of the other instances of derogatory statements that you have sent my way along with your side kick Clavy.
Just my two sense worth.
116 - Cindy D
Ah, boo-bah my former cat's name. He was a male. What the heck do women care about standards, we always call men cute names. I have to take issue with that pronunciation of bubbale (pronounced boo-bah-lay)
lay? long a? I have always heard it pronounced as boo-bah-lah. short a.
Ruvy?
117 - El Bicho
"it's the constant repetition,"
Where is that in the comment policy? Sure, it's not as redeeming as say wishing the death of an elected official, but you might want to make it clearer in the language. Also, if annoying repetition is grounds for censoring, you should send the Doc in after some of your forays into the Music section.
Take this ridiculous and arbitrary judgment off troll's bridge
118 - Christopher Rose
It's easily covered by the guidelines because it was an insult.
119 - pablo
Yeah Chris? And what about all the insults that Nalle has sent my way bucko?
120 - bliffle
At last! Voter fraud exposed and a CONVICTION!
Voter fraud conviction in texas
Today, the criminal justice system sent a clear message to political operatives, lobbyists and fundraisers: Don’t mess with Texas elections. The Texas Association of Business, the state’s largest business organization, found out the hard way.
The association pleaded guilty today to illegally funneling corporate money into the 2002 campaign, helping elect a slate of state Republican lawmakers. As its punishment, the association will have to pay a $10,000 fine. The association and others who would usurp the will of the people are on notice that these types of campaign finance violations will not go unpunished.
We would like to commend Travis County District Attorney Ronnie Earle for vigorously pursuing the charges and Common Cause for joining Public Citizen in filing the complaint that led to today’s guilty plea. Credit also goes to Texans for Public Justice and Campaigns for People for helping research the complaint.
Unfortunately, the people of Texas must deal with the consequences of the stolen 2002 election. The congressional redistricting after the election would not have occurred without the support of the candidates illegally backed by the Texas Association of Business.
What happened in Texas underscores the need for substantial reform of our election laws. If a system to provide effective public financing of elections were in place, it would be more difficult for groups such as the Texas Association of Business to illegally influence the outcome of elections.
121 - bliffle
Dave confesses to having wasted his time for four years:
"Actually, I've been on ACORN's case for four years,"
And turned up nothing.
You need a better hobby, Dave. try flying 2-control 100" wingspan high-start gliders. I bet Texas has just the kind of wide-open spaces and thermals for flying these beauties. Building them requires care and precision and flying these graceful flying machines is relaxing and greatly satisfying.
122 - Christopher Rose
Pablo, Dave regularly gets his comments edited when he goes too far in his self expression.