Don't assume that a vote against Obama isn't racist...
We are less than four weeks away from electing our next president and many news outlets are voicing a concern many Democrats are too fearful to look at closely: silent racism. Conservative pundits and news outlets are trying to pretend it doesn't exist, with headlines like "Don't Assume That A Vote Against Obama Is Racist" or "Get Ready For Cries Of Racism At Every Turn."…
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76 - Dawn
Clavor, I liked that photo too. His smile seems genuine, which I think reflects his spirit. You don't have to like the man, or his ideology or his political assertions, but he's certainly a respectable person. For once, I'd like to have someone respectable running the United States. Is that too much to ask?
Speaking of which, big kudos to McCain for trying to tone down the rhetoric at his rallies. Let's hope Palin follows suit.
Regardless of what happens on Nov. 4th, we are all in this situation together, a divided nation helps NO ONE.
77 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
Just a WAG, but could it be that black experience which you're forever telling us we whites can't understand?
Got him on that one.
78 - Heloise
I found this on Huffpo. I copied it saved to my group:
63 pages of so-called "Palin Vetting"
How can they talk about Cindy and Sarah liking each other when they freakin didn't know each other?
Cindy, God love her, sounds like a woman who did synthetic drugs for decades. She can hardly hold her lips other than to look like she is not about to imbibe a drink to go with those pills. And am I detecting a pattern here among GOP women? I called Nancy "drug thin" from the first time I ever saw her. Because no one on earth can be that anorexic looking without drugs. I've never heard her confess to it. Betty Ford did and Cindy Lou McCain was forced to air her dirty drug habit.
Heloise
79 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
The reason the Democrats have been pushing so hard for the youth vote is obvious: the youth vote is more open-minded and less prejudiced, and I mean that in the classic definition of the term.
I think you've got it all wrong here. Democrats aren't pushing for the youth vote. Take a look around.. who was sitting behind Obama at his rally in OH the other day? Middle aged white women.
Democrats already have the youth vote. Also, as a percent, young people, esp 19-24, have very low vote turnout. There aren't that many of them. There's what a few million who vote each year in that age group? There are 10s of millions of middle aged white women.
Young vote turnout jumped a full 10% for Kerry and he still lost. Even if Obama can pull out a miraculous 10% on top of Kerry's 10% it doesn't win him the election. Every year people say the young vote is going to increase; the election hinges on young people etc etc etc. It never does increase as much as expected and even when it does increase it's not enough if you can't win the big demographics that have turnout numbers over twice as high as young vote turnout will ever be.
80 - Heloise
Dave wrote: "I watched the Black Rep convention. It was a gathering of the most unfortunate Blacks in the looks department I had ever seen. Wow!! My brother even called me and said, "what is going on? Their (sic) all really ugly."
What a whipping blacks take from whites. You make everyone's point here Dave, and your bro, exactly. What you've written is a racist cousin to my recent anecdote:
I was talking to some teachers who claim to be unaware of what I call "if-you're-black-you-must-be-related-to-the-only-other-black-person-I've-ever-met syndrome" as racist.
The fact that he "sees" black as ugly is one of the oldest racist diatribes made quaintly famous by the French who were fond of even today putting black faces on coffee of women with huge red, red, big, big lips and just plain distorted-looking.
The saddest part, from the token black voice here, is that whites wouldn't know their racism if it hit them on their red necks.
Heloise
81 - Baritone
Despite McCain's efforts to tone down the angry and misinformation rhetoric, the campaign has NOT backed off of it's personal slams against Obama. Both the campaign and the party continue to run their hotly negative ads.
I'm curious just what all you Obama haters think that Ayers and Obama did together? Do you think maybe they touched tinkles? Do you think that they built bombs on week-ends? Do you think they played catch with grenades? Or do you just think they plotted the violent overthrow of either the government or maybe Dolly World?
It's not clear that they ever talked about anything. They served on a couple of boards together. Apparently Ayers held a small fund raiser in his living room. Ayers gave a whopping $200 to Obama's Senate campaign. Perhaps Ayers advised Obama about the best place to plant hostas in his yard.
The ONLY reason this is an issue is that the McCainiacs (I like that, BTW) hope it will serve to create doubt in a few undecided minds - like that enlightened woman at the McCain rally who claimed that Obama is an Arab.
It has been observed by a couple of reporters following the McCain campaign that more and more of those attending the rallies seem to be on the fringe, more ill-informed, hate spewing nutballs than in the past. Whose fault is that, I wonder?
B
82 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
The Bradley effect is the only way McCain wins this election and he knows it. Every bit of polling data says Obama will win and history reinforces this conviction. Obama would have to shoot someone or declare himself a commie to lose this election. See my recent article on the subject.
The McCain campaign isn't stupid. They know this. They know they've lost and the Bradley effect is their only chance. Of course it's broader than a strict black/white thing. They know they need to get moderate/leaning Obama voters to be scared. They need to make them afraid that Obama is fundamentally un-American. That he does not share their values. That he is different. That he is an 'unknown.' That he lacks experience.
There attempts to do this can be listed as follows:
-making race an issue again
-McCain called Obama naive in both debates, he said Obama 'just doesn't understand' 5 times in the first, he even called Obama's plan dangerous
-bringing up the Ayers/Wright associations again
83 - Clavos
Heloise @#80:
Dave wrote: "I watched the Black Rep convention. It was a gathering of the most unfortunate Blacks in the looks department I had ever seen. Wow!! My brother even called me and said, "what is going on? Their (sic) all really ugly."
Dave didn't say that, Zedd, a black woman, did (@#71).
84 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
Dave wrote: "I watched the Black Rep convention. It was a gathering of the most unfortunate Blacks in the looks department I had ever seen. Wow!! My brother even called me and said, "what is going on? Their (sic) all really ugly."
What a whipping blacks take from whites. You make everyone's point here Dave, and your bro, exactly. What you've written is a racist cousin to my recent anecdote:
I was talking to some teachers who claim to be unaware of what I call "if-you're-black-you-must-be-related-to-the-only-other-black-person-I've-ever-met syndrome" as racist.
The fact that he "sees" black as ugly is one of the oldest racist diatribes made quaintly famous by the French who were fond of even today putting black faces on coffee of women with huge red, red, big, big lips and just plain distorted-looking.
The saddest part, from the token black voice here, is that whites wouldn't know their racism if it hit them on their red necks.
Heloise
ARE YOU KIDDING ME!!?!?! This is hilarious.
Dave didn't say this. Zedd did. And judging from his comment 'we don't have darked skin' he is black himself.
So now black people are racist against blacks.
Could we try to not be so PC here?
85 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
Dave didn't say that, Zedd, a black woman, did (@#71).
You caught it before me! Funny stuff.
86 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
There attempts to do this can be listed as follows:
-making race an issue again
-McCain called Obama naive in both debates, he said Obama 'just doesn't understand' 5 times in the first, he even called Obama's plan dangerous
-bringing up the Ayers/Wright associations again
Quite simply, the McCain campaign ran a clean campaign until it became apparent they couldn't win with a clean campaign. The fact that they get dirty when it becomes obvious they are going to lose w/o a hail marry is obviously not a coincidence. In fact, I would venture that McCain himself knows this strategy is morally bankrupt. Props to them for avoiding it to this point.
87 - Heloise
Baritone that number of points is 5 to be exact in terms of the points ahead, according to Harris-Lacewell who spoke on Rachel Maddow's show lat week indicated.
Daily Kos is keeping due diligent care of the stats and numbers by polls and states that you could ever want. The happy news is that Obama has met and maxed the 5% he needs to score in order to neutralize the "Bradley Effect."
He is close to some say 12% ahead of McClone nationwide.
They are scrambling to keep Bush states!!!
My recent "Take Cover" article where I put the words "vote for the white guy" in McClone's mouth, was picked up by New York Times topics page next to SNL pic.
Heloise
88 - Heloise
Doesn't matter. Why? Because the other research I cited in that same conversation is the one about the black children who chose white dolls over black dolls every time when the only diff was skin color. The oppressed minority ingest and digest what is foised upon them by the majority.
It is not an original thought that "blacks are ugly" whether they are GOP or Dems or said by black or white.
Heloise
89 - El Bicho
Heloise, you don't get to keep commenting unless you admit your mistake in attributing Zedd's comment to Dave and apologize.
Although since you think you are JFK, maybe you think they are the same person as well
90 - Heloise
I was scanning the comments sorry. But my point is nonetheless TRUE. Yes, blacks are racist against blacks. If you need any proof of it just ask any dark-skinned black person from New Orleans. There is a wide chasm between the blacks who look white in NOLA and those who look black. Yes, they basically hate each other.
That is the dirty laundry that Cosby and others talk about and folks don't like.
Heloise
91 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
It doesn't matter. There's a problem of over analyzing racism and political correctness in this country if a black person can't call another black person ugly.
Also, I don't care if little black girls chose black dolls. As far as I'm concerned dolls are just meant to be white. It's just tradition I guess. Maybe dolls just look better that way? Maybe whatever dolls the study chose, maybe whatever they were wearing, looked better with white 'skin.' Who knows. It's not a big deal. How does a preference for white dolls tangibly effect anything of value in this world? What are we going to do.. force doll companies to fulfill a black doll sales quota?
92 - pleasexcusetheinterruption
Oh so Bill Crosby is racist too now?
Geeze I need to turn my racist sensitivity meter up I guess.
93 - Heloise
Dawn like the old 1980s black play I quoted to McCain "Your arms too short to box with God."
Something bigger than McCain and Obama will sweep Obama, now it looks like landslide-place, into victory. And people will be "Dancing in the streets" something I saw in dream a long time ago over a monumental event.
Rachel on Air America is talking about Harriet Meirs as amb to Pakistan? The base, and myself, were hating on her. She is sooooo liberal, dressed up like a conservative. Her nod got shot down and now she rears her ugly head up in Pakistan? Whoa.
Heloise
Heloise
94 - Heloise
El Bicho, what I say about JFK and me, I don't think--I KNOW. That out of the way, I stand by my statement, however, I will apologize to Dave for attributing that quote to him.
Heloise
95 - Heloise
poster of #91 and 92: don't look now but you are officially a racist. Welcome to the club, been there done that.
H
96 - Marcia Neil
The racism of skin color has been heavily covered in all kinds of socio-political contexts, but what about the racism of 'blue eyes"? Often likening themselves to blue-green al/gae in the now-extensive annals of human affairs, does a majority population of blue-eyed people active within any given locale skew the odds towards major catastrophe, such as a Twin Towers shake-down, or towards the habit of organized crime?
97 - Zedd
Heloise,
There are ugly people in all races. That particular group was especially hurt. Just an observation.
As for seeing racism in every corner. That has to stop. it diminishes the focus on real racist activities that effect Blacks in a meaningful way. If Dave watched a show and thought the people in it were ugly, regardless of race, that would be his opinion. What you are asking is NOT to be treated as equal AND you will find yourself being thought of as a pariah. Everyone will dread Blacks if they cant treat them like everyone else. If someone who is Black is ugly, they are ugly (to that person). If a white person thinks all Blacks are ugly, so. I mean really. I happen to like the range of brown and deep deep chocolate skin. So.
The New-Yorker "incident" was one of those ridiculous false indignations (or just stupidity) . The New Yorker was doing what it does to EVERYONE but because the people were Black, every numb headed loud mouth expressed hurt (eye roll). What they missed was that the New Yorker did Barrack a huge favor by making the notion of his being a potential link to Muslim extremists, ridiculous. The cover was funny. Most of us however sought another opportunity to complain over nothing. The bottom line is, if you want to play with the big boys (or join the rest of society) you've got to man up.
98 - Condor
"Albert Einstein helped in the creation of the atomic bomb, but I don't think anyone considers him a terrorist."
Wha....????
How? E=mc2? Come on. He put forth a theory, which was mathematically confirmed over a number of years. He didn't invent the bomb, he expressed and indentified a natural occurance.
99 - Condor
"McCain, is another story. I agree, I think this something he'll regret being a part of." -
#56 " October 10, 2008 @ 21:02PM " Cindy D
How so Cindy D... everybody thinks McCain is going to croak 2 minutes after assuming the office. So if he does regret it, it won't be for too long.
On the question of Race and prejudice. We are all prejudice. Face it. History proves it, we see it now. In some way, shape, or form, everyone is. It's human nature.
Now... Who am I voting for. Well, who am I not voting for. Obama. Why? I don't believe in co-presidents and I have this uneasy feeling after observation and reading that Michelle Obama is going to be a co-president. Hillary was a co-president and admitted it publically. I didn't agree with it then, nor do I now. I don't vote for co-presidents. I don't even think it's constitutional. In fact I wonder if you could be impeached for a practicing co-presidential spouse?
100 - Arch Conservative
"The reason the Democrats have been pushing so hard for the youth vote is obvious: the youth vote is more open-minded and less prejudiced, and I mean that in the classic definition of the term."
That's a steaming pile of horseshit. The reason the "youth vote" is attracted to Obama is because they're a generation of pussies that have been coddled their whole lives and an Obama presidency gives them the best chance to keep that gravy train a rollin once they leave college. They get to go from living off of mommy and daddy's dime to living on the federal government's if Obama has his way.
101 - Baritone
Co-president? Twaddle! Republican God Incarnate Ronald Reagan couldn't wipe his ass without consulting Nancy - and I mean before the onset of his Alzheimers.
This is obviously gender bias. Guys simply can't abide the notion that women can be smarter than they are. Michele Obama is one smart and very capable lady. It's obvious that she can handle more than organizing the White House Easter egg hunt. However, her husband is strong on his own. There will be no co-presidency.
Should he consult with her on certain issues? Of course. She is just as capable of having insights that could help in the decision making process as anyone else. Most of the people posting and commenting here at BC think they're smarter than everybody in government and hardly shrink from offering up their considered opinions about pretty much everything. Should a well educated, intelligent and respected woman situated in close proximity to the president keep her perspectives to herself? I think not.
B
102 - Dr Dreadful
Most of the people posting and commenting here at BC think they're smarter than everybody in government and hardly shrink from offering up their considered opinions about pretty much everything.
Quoted for truth...!
103 - Clavos
Here's an interesting quote from an opinion piece by Mark Steyn in the Orange County Register:
Of course, those in favor of a big government, politically correct nanny state will look at this probability as a positive, rather than negative, outlook.I don't make more than $250K a year, but I'm willing to bet the last of my dwindling dollars that my taxes are going up, not down, once Obama and his cohorts are in control. I don't believe for one second he can simultaneously enact all the ambitious plans he has for enriching the people AND lower taxes for all but the upper middle and upper classes.
IMO, we are in for a season of class warfare very similar to that of Russia at the dawn of the Bolshevik revolution, and if I were rich, I'd take my money and leave. Now.
104 - zingzing
oh, clavos... are you saying that if obama wins, you'll leave the country? how... democrat '04 of you.
105 - Clavos
No, zing, I'm saying the rich should, to protect themselves.
106 - Lisa Solod Warren
Clav has already left the country..... and besides, he doesn't give a damn, anyway.
If the rich want to leave, let them. Some will, some won't. Some of us less rich may well leave if McCain gets elected and we can manage it, some won't.
There are fewer rich than there were, at this point, due to Bush. If the rich were really smart, they would demand retribution and jail time for those that helped make them that way. I know I would appreciate a little punishment from the guys that just decimated my kids' college funds. And here we go again for another tweaked bailout plan when the current one is barely two weeks old. All of it a lousy idea in the first place......
BTW the NYT today discounts the Bradley effect having the same effect it did back then....but only time will tell.
107 - Lisa Solod Warren
Man, I MUST be exhausted..... I don't want punishment FROM the assholes how decimated my kids' funds, I want punishment FOR them:)
Company all weekend and still recovering from surgery has clearly screwed with my head!
108 - Clavos
Clav has already left the country
You're right...I live in Miami - and love it, especially our international milieu; we have people, good food and arts from all over the world.
There are fewer rich than there were, at this point, due to Bush.
Actually not true. There are more than ever before, and a lot of them were middle class just a few years ago. There are also MANY more rich worldwide (not that Bush had anything to do with that), especially in the former Soviet countries (I've had Russian, Slovenian and Croatian clients over the past several months) and, of course, in the Middle East. China, too, has been growing millionaires like mushrooms these days. Globalizing the world's economies is resulting in a LOT of new businesses worldwide, and enriching the entire globe.
And BTW, there are Congressional records showing that Republicans were calling for tightening regulation of Fannie and Freddie as long ago as during the Clinton administration, but they were thwarted by Democrats, especially Barney Frank, in the name of making loans available for the poor to achieve home ownership. Sound familiar?
109 - Cannonshop
#107 Yeah, Lisa, but you support them Anyway, and you back the guy LEAST likely to punish them.
110 - Lisa Solod Warren
If the repubs wanted tightening, why did Bush call for more loans to those who could not pay? As late as 03? and why were the repubs so heavy on deregulation?
111 - Clavos
It wasn't the Republicans who kept pushing the CRA to pressure Fannie and Freddie to accept risky loans from commercial banks. In fact, "heartless" Phil Gramm loudly argued against the CRA all during the 90s (that evil SOB).
But the Democrats were not to be deterred; keeping the underclass on the dole and in thrall to them is their main strategy for getting votes and staying in office.
Here's a video of excerpts from C-Span broadcasts of Republicans calling for more regulation of the GSEs, while Democrat after Democrat insists they don't need to be regulated.
112 - zingzing
"But the Democrats were not to be deterred; keeping the underclass on the dole and in thrall to them is their main strategy for getting votes and staying in office."
no matter how many times you say that, it still doesn't make any sense. so a party keeps people poor to keep their votes? and you know about this? and yet, this strategy works? but, yet, as dave says, people don't stay poor?
which is it?
113 - Clavos
Doesn't work?
Does the underclass vote exclusively for Democrats?
Are they the champions of the underclass?
Does the underclass get any smaller year to year?
Do very many of them get out and up?
Is the dole enough for any of them to actually improve their lot?
114 - zingzing
the underclass doesn't vote at all.
does the underclass get any smaller? i dunno, ask dave.
do they get up and out? tell it to dave.
115 - Dr Dreadful
...Republicans calling for more regulation of the GSEs, while Democrat after Democrat insists they don't need to be regulated.
Oh, the irony.
116 - Dan(Miller)
Baritone,
In comment #101 you say, Republican God Incarnate Ronald Reagan couldn't wipe his ass without consulting Nancy - and I mean before the onset of his Alzheimers. I assume that you inadvertently omitted a link supporting that statement. Assuming that there is some factual support, I would be interested to know whether former President Reagan interrupted Mrs. Reagan's seances with her astrologer to consult on this. It is very important for me to know the truth. And, if you know and can provide a basis for it, whom did former President Clinton consult before cleansing himself, fore and aft?
These are crucial topics for discussion, and should be fully ventilated. We need all of the salient facts before voting.
Dan(Miller)
117 - Lisa Solod Warren
Clav, I sat and listened to Bush push for Fannie and Freddie to give loans to low income people who could not afford them, in 2003... telling those people to buy nice houses, houses like the middle class had, and they could do it without any money.
With a Republican president and a Republican congress, he could have done what he wished, had he wished it. And he did.
And don't forget Gramm's dereg bill pushed through in 2000 while the supreme court was deciding the election.
You choose your facts.... and ignore others.
118 - Dan(Miller)
Baritone, just a post script to my comment #116 above. On another thread, in comment # 11, you state, There are and will always be nut cases on all sides who write and say pretty nasty shit about candidates they oppose.
Thanks for elevating the level of the discussion. It certainly needs it; even meaningful scatalogical comments are an improvement.
Dan(Miller)
119 - Clavos
the underclass doesn't vote at all.
Oh please, zing.
120 - Dr Dreadful
There's no point in begging, Clav. He won't vote if he doesn't want to.
;-)
121 - Cali
no, I don't believe that. Even if some old people were still racist from way back then. They won't be here after 50 years or so.
Racism is dead.
Barrack Obama is going to win this election. Everyone i've talked to says they want change, and he is going to bring it, America needs it.
By the way, I am not black, nor white. I am not personally attacking any one, just telling the truth.