Pat Robertson's out of his tree- which is why you have to love him. I mean, this is riDONKulous, m'kay?
On the 700 Club Monday, Pat Robertson appeared to be advocating the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who has become known as one of President Bush's harshest critics. AP STORY…
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— go to most recent comments126 - KA
Hanhnemann, while new weapons may be needed why this quantity? Why buy outdated ones (those used by the FARC) and not new ones?
I read all sources of news, even the communist ones but my stomach can't take it. Vcrisis is essentially the only source of news on Venezuela in English that is not financially supported by the Venezuelan government that actually reports on the details and stuff you can't find in the MSM.
Prior to Chavez the press was also controlled but does that make it right? I thought we voted for Chavez because we were tired of the injustice? But instead we got the same governments of the past but only worse. So much for the revolution. BTW countless independent organizations have criticized the media gag law. I guess you would say Cuba and Zimbabwe have freedom of speech too.
127 - Dave Nalle
I already told Hahnemann this, but I suspect his mind is closed. CPJ is a neutral non-partisan group and they're very concerned, but he continues to deny the reality of where the Chavez regime is going.
Dave
128 - Anthony Grande
Bravo Robertson, I wish we had more religious leaders that are brave like you. It would be great if someone assasinated Chavez. His freindship with Castro is a good enough reason for me.
129 - Hahnemann
KA, ask about the rifles to the fugutive admiral, he approved it. Maybe he has something to do with FARC which seems to be your major concern.
Vcrisis is not information, is propaganda and you know that.
Have you seen who is financing your independent orgnizations that critized the Radio and TV Responsability Law? It doesn't look so independent.
I am not talking about Cuba or Zimbabwe, I am talking about Venezuela. By the way, we are far from those countries regarding freedom.
130 - Hahnemann
Dave, you really think my mind is close?
Your information sources seem to be very limited and you think my mind is close. Funny
131 - Dave Nalle
No, Hahnemann, I think your mind is "closed" not "close". I also think you're a flack for the Chavez government and not to be taken seriously in any way. Though it's interest to see that Chavez has taken a lesson from Kim Jong Il's book and put hired flacks out on the blogs to defend his budding dictatoriship.
Dave
132 - Lee Richards
Suppose we follow the gospel according to Robertson and assassinate Chavez. Is there ANY possibility at all that his sucessor could, in time, make him look like Mary Poppins? Same question for Kim Il, etc., etc. What do we do-keep on whacking them (Al's favorite verb) until we finally get one we can all respect and agree with, like maybe a PAT ROBERTSON?
There's your out, Nancy, if you want one. Your gut feeling just isn't viable.
133 - Tube Pinoy
I wonder if this will affect Pat's Pancake sales...
134 - Al Barger
Well Lee, at least in the case of Kim Jong Il, I'd definitely be willing to roll the dice on who comes after. It would be hard to get someone worse.
I don't insist on one I "respect and agree with." I just want someone who's not a major threat to security for the whole world. Is that too much to expect?
Plus, if we WHACK a couple of dirtbags, even if the next dirtbags are nearly as bad in their hearts, they might likely be a little more amenable to reason.
135 - gonzo marx
Mr Nalle sez...
*Though it's interest to see that Chavez has taken a lesson from Kim Jong Il's book and put hired flacks out on the blogs to defend his budding dictatoriship.*
oh no..the Shrub started the practice..or should i say Rove..and you should know Mr Nalle...
Al sez...
*Plus, if we WHACK a couple of dirtbags, even if the next dirtbags are nearly as bad in their hearts, they might likely be a little more amenable to reason.*
please tell me yer not serious here...i mean, even if you started with the GOP, i don't think Soprano style diplomacy is any kind of answer...
Excelsior!
136 - Dave Nalle
>>oh no..the Shrub started the practice..or should i say Rove..and you should know Mr Nalle...<<
No, that's not exactly the same. When moveon.org started paying partisan bloggers it was entirely for purposes of promoting their agenda within the US, and when Republicans picked up on the same thing - unpaid, I might add, but still partisan - it remained part of domestic political campaigns.
What Kim was doing and what Chavez might well be doing here, is trying to defend the negative reputation of their regimes throughout the world using the blogosphere and the web. Not exactly the same thing.
Dave
137 - gonzo marx
two words, Mr Nalle
Jeff Gannon
i just wonder if he gets paid more than you do
Excelsior!
138 - Dave Nalle
I have yet to see any evidence that Gannon/Guckert was paid for his blogging, though I have no comment on the possibility that he was paid for 'other' services.
And believe me, the administration wouldn't pay me for the nasty stuff I've been saying about them.
Dave
139 - gonzo marx
but you two got your matching presidential kneepads!!!
i will say you have spoken in disappointment about the lack of progress on the domestic agenda you would like...but post after post, comments in torrents, you have been a staunch apologist for the WH as well as another good GOP shill that hits those talking points and follows the Rovian Way constantly...
so spare me any of the denial stuff cuz it ain't just a river in egypt
Excelsior!
140 - Dave Nalle
I support em when they're right and abuse em when they're wrong, Gonzo. That's all I can honestly do.
Dave
141 - Heloise
In perusing the comments I am surprised that no one has mentioned the fundamental racism of Pat and his Christian ilk.
He has advocated killing a nonwhite SOB who has an oil-rich country south of the border. Did anyone advocate killing Chouchescou (sp) before his people killed him? Hmm, don't think so, don't recall Pat calling for the assassination of that Eastern European.
His people and other Europeans took care of him, his wife and the Berlin wall, all in one winter--without our help (oops forgot about Reagan).
Heloise
142 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
Tell me Heloise, why do you have a problem assassinating a communist dictator? Are you a communist sympathizer?
143 - Nick Jones
I don't know about Robertson, but I suspect Nick Jones is about to have a visit from the Secret Service.
Hee hee, they have to find me first!
"KA, what you describe is the classic scenario for a traditional south/central american dictatorship. They always seem to start out with the best of intentions, but then the cult of personality takes over, the leader starts to believe his own press, the praetorians close ranks and the people get forgotten along the way."
Actually, I should have made a distinction with my last comment about this quote (it had been a long day, I was tired). If it's done by a repressive, militaristic, "authoritarian" regime (e.g., the Somozas), then it's just ducky with the US gov; if it's a Marxist (Allende) or Socialist (Ortega, maybe Chavez), then the free world is going to hell in a handbasket and the Central American dominoes are severely atilt.
Anybody old enough to remember Jeanne Kirkpatrick's comment at the UN about how the US gov "sometimes" supports authoritarian regimes, but not totalitarian regimes? You know what distinguishes an authoritarian regime from a totalitarian one? An authoritarian regime pretends its death squads don't exist.
144 - troll
yes tell us Heloise - are you now or have you ever been a human being?
145 - Heloise
No, I am Nazi. What's your excuse.
Heloise
146 - Heloise
Mark, my friend I was supposed to have been complicit in having Castro assassinated but the SOB has outlived what 4 presidents? And the freaking irony is that the press showed a pic of Chavez with Castro--unbelievable.
These guys have 3 balls apiece obviously. They have more staying power than we do it seems. The people who follow them keep them propped up like the puppets they are--this is where we (U.S.) have miscalculated.
I think Pat should not say out loud what the powers that be are whispering, that's all.
Heloise
147 - bass
Write your Congressmen and Senators and request action against Pat Robertson. (You can email them quite easily.) His fundamental religious extremism is absolutely no different than the Muslim fundamental religious extremist. This is a criminal comment. He should be accountable for this words.
148 - Al Barger
Yeah, bass, that's what we call- to use the technical term- "BULLSHIT." Robertson is NOTHING like the Muslim extremists. He did not claim that God sent him a special message, or issue a fatwa, or promise some idiot 72 white raisins.
He did NOT call for individuals to take it into their own hands to kill Chavez. He very clearly was making a political argument, that as a matter of public policy the US should consider killing this thug dictator. That might not be a good idea, however it is absolutely not even vaguely a criminal incitement. Surely you can see that.
Again, I'm really appalled when supposed good liberals go reaching for censorship and repression of our First Amendment right to openly debate public issues.
149 - Silas Kain
Let's have another Bay of Pigs Invasion! And I'm not talking about the shores of Cuba. Let's clean up the Bay of Pigs hanging out on K Street in Washington, DC.
150 - Dave Nalle
>>Write your Congressmen and Senators and request action against Pat Robertson. <<
What, EXACTLY is your Congressman going to do? Robertson from a position of no official power at all, expressed his opinion. Last time I checked that was legal in the US, no matter how dumb your opinion is.
Are you suggesting a lynching?
Dave
151 - Hahnemann
"No, Hahnemann, I think your mind is "closed" not "close"" You don't even recognize a typing mistake.
"I also think you're a flack for the Chavez government and not to be taken seriously in any way. Though it's interest to see that Chavez has taken a lesson from Kim Jong Il's book and put hired flacks out on the blogs to defend his budding dictatoriship"
Are this all your arguments? Have you ever think about a choise? Why everybody that disagree with your oppinions have to be paid by Chavez? Are you repeating the same propaganda venezuelan opposition repeat?
Do your homework...
Do I have to think you are paid by your government to say stupidities in a blog?
152 - Nick Jones
From Wikipedia:
"Since he was elected in 1998 on promises of helping the poor, Chávez's influence over Venezuelan politics has grown. One year after a majority of Venezuelans voted to keep him in office, the populist leader consolidated his power, striking a harsh anti-USA tone. He is up for re-election in 2006, and recent polls suggest he has about 70 percent popularity.
Chávez and his administration have been opposed through confrontational methods by some established sectors in Venezuela, including the business federation Fedecámaras and union federation CTV, resulting in a coup d'état, general strike/lockout, and recall referendum, all of which failed to remove him from office. Although the opposition charged that there was widespread fraud in the recall vote, international observers said the official results matched their counts at polling sites. Subsequently Chávez and his allies have won consistent political victories, occupying the vast majority of elected municipal, state, and national posts, as well as majorities in the supreme court, national electoral council and national assembly."
Maybe Chavez' anti-sedition acts were inspired by President John Adams, who passed the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798 - maybe it's a stage a young democracy goes through, or maybe Chavez is just a wee bit paranoid after all the actions that have been taken against him. And if he actually shuts down any news media that opposes him, he might have gotten that idea from Abraham Lincoln.
And for those who don't see Chavez as a propped-up Stalinist boogeyman, see this.
153 - ss
I agree Chavez has the support of his people, the failed coup proved that. It's his interest in building a military that wouldn't deter ours, when his neighbors obviously aren't going to invade, that worries me.
On the subject of Robertson, he's a goon and a christian terrorist, no different than the Muslim enciters Blair wants to kick out of England.
They can both be bad guys, people, it's been known to happen in politics.
154 - Alex
If your governments in their infinite wisdom are deporting and/or confining radical religious leaders for preaching hate and violence, when is the Coalition of the Willing going to send Pat Robertson packing to Gitmo for demanding the assassination of a democratically elected leader?
155 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
re: post 153
"On the subject of Robertson, he's a goon and a christian terrorist, no different than the Muslim enciters Blair wants to kick out of England."
Right, Robertson is calling for the death of all Christians and Jews around the world. If you equate that with calling for the assassination of a Marxist dictator, then you are fucked in the head, ss, and most likely, a Communist puke-o yourself.
156 - ss
Mark the Red-assed Babbling Monkey:
Although I am not a 'communist puke-o',
I am going to order one of those t-shirts that replaces the 'C' in ACLU with the hammer and sickle.
And says 'ENEMY OF THE STATE' underneath.
I think it's funny to.
Just not for the same reasons you do.
157 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
"Although I am not a 'communist puke-o',"
Oh really, ss? Then why are you bothered by a fellow countryman calling for the head of a Marxist dictator?
What the matter, afraid of a little pinko blood being spilled?
158 - ss
BTW- I'm one of the few lefists on this thread who sees Chavez is on his way to dictatorship, and I'm not defending him. The main problem in Venezuala is the 40% rate of poverty that creates enough desperation there people still defend a man who is begining to turn on them. One bullet won't fix it.
Nice fantasy, won't work.
And Pat Robertson is a religious extremist who rellies on fear and encites violence. Sounds like a terrorist to me.
159 - Nancy
A "communist puke-o"??? Regressed to our childhoods, have we? Surely you all can come up with better insults than that.
160 - Eric Berlin
Mark -- Did you just emerge from a time capsule time-stamped 1958?
Just curious.
161 - ss
And spilling pinko blood just pushes the whole continent of South America a little further to the left.
They've finally started to get out of that cycle, don't push them back in.
You brain dead chicken fucker.
162 - ss
BTW- I meant the economic left. I like the rest of the left.
163 - Nancy
Well, 'chickenfucker' is better, but still lacking somewhat. Check out one of Shark or Gonzo's really flaming entries. Troll has some good ones, too. A truly horrific insult isn't just obscene, it also comprises of skewering wit, preferably that exposes the objective to scorn & laughter by non-combatant parties.
BTW - what is the 'economic left' as opposed to the 'rest of the left'? How are they different? Thanks.
164 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
"Mark -- Did you just emerge from a time capsule time-stamped 1958?"
It was certainly a much better time in America than 2005. We didn't have Muslims flying planes into skyscrapers. We didn't have homosexuals asking for marriage rights. We didn't have to worry about our kids being shot in schools by insane and poorly parented little monsters stoked on video games and junk food. We didn't have idiots trying to take away our firearms, either. People knew their place and the country was strong because the mainstream population backed it 110%. The freaks hadn't tried to take over yet and ruin everything for the mainstream.
But of course, in the 60s, it all went to shit.
165 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
Proof of the following contention, ss?
"And spilling pinko blood just pushes the whole continent of South America a little further to the left."
South America is primarily a third world shithole and as long a thriving illegal drug trade is able to commence for the benefit of all your crackhead friends they won't be any trouble for us.
"You brain dead chicken fucker."
Are you sure you're not just projecting a bit here, ss?
166 - Nancy
I suspect a lot of it had to do with the state of communications & travel as well: now, anything that happens is almost instantaneous world-wide, and so we all feel (or at least I do) overwhelmed & drowning. Also, the MSM still had a self-control level about exposing & obsessing about violence, et al which they have totally lost today.
167 - Liberal
"The VOA is NOT propaganda."
Psst. c'mere. You wanna buy a bridge? It's really cheap.
168 - Nancy
The VOA is not propaganda? You do mean the Voice Of America, right? The radio network? The one used to broadcast into the Soviet Union, etc.? Well, of course WE didn't call it 'propaganda', since that's something that only the Other Side (whichever one it was at the moment) used, but it certainly did broadcast only information that we had vetted & deemed "useful" to US interests, which makes it propaganda, altho (in US views) benign propaganda.
169 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
why do you people insisit on seriously considering the POV of the countries and cultures diametrically opposed to the US and its own culture and government?
Are you internationalists? Do you support a one world government?
I wish it were 1958 again. Where is the Cold War when you need it?
170 - Nancy
LOL - gawd knows I'm not an internationalist; I've been accused of being an isolationist, tho. Go check out the definition of "propaganda"; it's neutral; it has a negative connotation only because of the way you've heard it used by various governments - ours, theirs, whoevers.
171 - Silas Kain
why do you people insisit on seriously considering the POV of the countries and cultures diametrically opposed to the US and its own culture and government?
Are you internationalists? Do you support a one world government?I wish it were 1958 again. Where is the Cold War when you need it?172 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
"Ah yes. McCarthyism. House Committee on unAmerican activities."
if it were up to you, pinkos would have been allowed to roam free and destroy our country.
"Housewives hooked on valium."
What kind of fantasy scenario are you getting that from?
"Children hiding under school desks during nuclear drills. The Iron Curtain."
Of course, we needed to be combat ready at all times. What's wrong with that? That's the problem with America of 2005. Our people are fat and soft and have no will to fight.
"These are the things that you want us to reincarnate?"
It was far superior to giving homosexuals marriage rights, getting rid of the death penalty, political correctness, diversity initiatives in schools, teaching kids about homosexuality, homosexual families, egalitiarianism, revisionist Howard Zinn history in schools, no Christmas themed programs in schools, no manger displays in public places, special protections for every freak group that comes down the pike. Kids weren't smoking dope or snorting meth, either, in the 1950s.
"Sorry, bud, I'll take what we have today."
Yes, you probably think all of the above is good and necessary for a decent society, right? If you do, you're a real sicko.
173 - Mark the Sane and Sensible
Silas, I know your problem. You are from the People's Republic of Massachusetts. That explains a lot.
Well, at least I don't have a murdering drunk representing my interests in the US senate.
174 - Temple Stark
Don't forget homosexuality. There's a reason that word starts with "ho" right?
It's obvious. So says God (but only to some of the more holy, which has become a bad word in 21st century America.
175 - Silas Kain
Mark, I wish I could have a rational debate with you but that seems impossible. You seem totally indoctrinated in a set of beliefs that I cannot find myself able to reconcile with. Your blatant hatred of homosexuals and homosexuality issues puts us at opposite ends of the spectrum. Your notion that diversity initiatives in schools is wrong is totally unrealistic if we are to achieve some kind of racial peaceful coexistence in this country. I get the feeling that you are locked in a White Supremacist time warp. I could be wrong because every now and again you actually produce some sane position that I can almost applaud. It's too bad that you hate people of my ilk, Mark, because I'll bet we have more in common than not.