Pat Robertson's out of his tree- which is why you have to love him. I mean, this is riDONKulous, m'kay?
On the 700 Club Monday, Pat Robertson appeared to be advocating the assassination of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, who has become known as one of President Bush's harshest critics. AP STORY…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Silas Kain
Robertson can comment on public policy all he wants --- when his tax exempt organization starts paying Uncle Sam.
27 - Rob
I've said it before and I believe it more now, Pat Robertson is no better then Bin Laden. They are both preaching the same bullshit. God have mercy on those that follow the teachings of these fools.
28 - Shark
At the rate things are going, Robertson will probably be our next Republican President.
Onward Christoid Soldiers!
[To save time, Shark is already sewing a 'liberal star' on his tattered wool jacket -- and lining up in front of the First Christian De-lousing Center in downtown Bumfuque, Alabama awaiting the next train out...]
29 - Silas Kain
Geesh, Shark, at least all you get is delousing. They're gonna a-bomb-i-nate me! The irony is that fundamentalist conservative Christians seem to breed more homosexuals than not. Why is this?
30 - Nancy
They also breed more child molesters & serial killers than anyone else. Interesting, ain't it?
31 - Victor Plenty
WWJW? (Who Would Jesus Whack?) Nobody, if the Gospel account of his life is to be believed.
Plenty of people around back in his day deserved to have somebody bust a cap in 'em, as much as anybody alive today "deserves" it. But Jesus didn't go in for that sort of thing.
Too bad some of his followers don't pay any attention to what he taught.
32 - Al Barger
Some people here are substituting mere sarcasm for real thought about tough choices in the real world.
Gonzo has the best bit of logical argument though, something that actually might be answered.
For starters, if assassinating foreign leaders is purely and categorically against OUR laws, then they should definitely be changed. There are certainly times and places where whacking some thug dictator is the best, most humane thing. What, we have to make a full fledged war, kill a big chunk of somebody's army and populace rather than cut off the head?
However, I'm NOT advocating such a thing in any specific case, particularly this Chavez guy. He seems like another two bit thug whose passing would go unmourned, but I don't see how he's near enough of a problem to us to merit such drastic action.
Also Mr MARX, you misrepresent our beloved Dave Nalle as a right wing nutjob. In fact, he's really a flexible moderate. It would seem closer to reality to say that YOU hate anyone to the right of Fidel.
And Silas, that's distinctly un-American of you wanting to wave that tax stick to shut somebody up just because you don't like their opinion. I doubt you'd have the same reaction to, say, a liberal black Baptist minister advocating more welfare programs.
Finally, ya know Gonzo, Tony Soprano might would be JUST the guy to deal with some of these dictators and jihadists.
33 - JR
Al Barger: Granted that Robertson's pretty much of a nutjob, but in fairness advocating the assassination of a thug dictator is nothing like calling for the deaths of infidels
Wait... what dictator are we talking about?
34 - gonzo marx
not so, big Al...
i rarely "hate" anyone...
as for folks on the "Right"..i'll take George Will and William F. Buckley for $1000, Alex
real, old school "conservatives" are just fine by me...we can disagree, but both are trying to do the best for the Nation
unfortunately, those running the GOP are anything but
nuff said?
Excelsior!
35 - Al Barger
So Gonzo, you don't think that Dubya is even TRYING to do good by the nation? He's not merely mistaken in how he goes about it, but has some evil personal agenda? Perhaps you could write a whole new column for us on Dubya's REAL agenda.
36 - Nancy
Oceans of ink have been expended on Smirk's real agenda. Most people with intelligence and not intent on being GOP/Bush apologists (or who are not themselves part of the Smirk regime or profiting therefrom) are quite convinced of the unethical & possibly/probably criminal nature of Smirk's true agenda; however, it's not too late; if you read fast, you may be able to catch up.
37 - Nancy
But we're not discussing the soi-disant 'presidential' chimp; we're talking about the fundimentalist evangelical christian nutjob with the TV station and several million half-witted 'believers'.
38 - Al Barger
Nancy, you've made absolutely NO argument there WHATSOEVER, merely thrown some namecalling. Sounds more like YOU are the one with the "Smirk." I've swum through a fair part of that ocean of ink, without seeing anything even close to justifying the evil conspiratorial stuff you're throwing at him.
In fact, President Bush seems to be trying to do what he thinks is right by the nation first and foremost- particularly in that most critical area of foreign policy. Not that I necessarily share all of his ideas of "right."
39 - Bob A. Booey
This entire conversation is comical and illustrates precisely why none of you who cling to childish ideas like this will ever be taken seriously in real journalism or as serious commentators on foreign affairs. Not only is assassinating foreign leaders oustide of war illegal, "taking out" Chavez would be an incredibly stupid idea because it would destroy our entire credibility in Latin America and the rest of the world and would be perceived as another oil grab. If you're looking to make enemies and destroy all aspirations of sustainable hegemony, keep speculating about weird ideas like this from nutjobs like Robertson.
Pat has consistently proven that he's more interested in politics than he is in religion. And his religion has always been filtered through his politics, which are bizarre and hateful.
This post and the simpletons supporting this story are the worst example of the excesses of the political blogosphere and unmediated Internet commentary on issues far beyond the understanding of keyboard ideologues who lack any perspective about public policy.
That is all.
40 - Nancy
I don't have to argue: my point is & was that the subject of Bush's purported nefarious plots, pro & con, has been exhaustively covered elsewhere. I thought this blog was about Robertson. BTW, I've heard you referred to as an elected official; if it's not a problem to you, what exactly are you elected to?
41 - Dave Nalle
>>Dave, the links you are giving are just propaganda. If you read Spanish I invite you to read any newspaper in Venezuela and you will notice right away that your links are not reliable.<<
The VOA is NOT propaganda, neither is the CPJ, it's a non-paritisan free speech group. By now the Venezuelan press is likely to be so intimidated by the new Constitution and the threats Chavez has been making that nothing they print is likely to be true.
Dave
42 - Dave Nalle
>>we know that Mr Nalle (who i just can't believe is playing apologist for Robertson), hates anyone to the Left of Gordon Liddy...and the team up here just makes me nauseous...<<
Gonzo, I hate everyone to the right of Liddy too. But I do find Liddy himself mildly entertaining in a trainwreck kind of way.
Dave
43 - Nancy
LOL, Dave - Liddy reminds me of something like the 2-headed calf: you have to stare in horrified fascination that anything so perverse could exist.
44 - Al Barger
Miss Nancy, I am not an elected official. I was, however, most recently the Libertarian Party candidate for US Senate last year running against Evan Bayh. CAMPAIGN ARCHIVE
Yes this is a column about Robertson, not Bush. But if you want to speak of the president in such an accusatory manner, you need to back it up. It cuts no ice at all to simply refer to him as an evil conspiratorial Smirk or Chimp and expect us to take that as having meaning.
45 - Silas Kain
And Silas, that's distinctly un-American of you wanting to wave that tax stick to shut somebody up just because you don't like their opinion. I doubt you'd have the same reaction to, say, a liberal black Baptist minister advocating more welfare programs.
Sorry, Al, don't go there. A liberal Black Baptist minister should pay their fair share of taxes as well. I'm not discriminatory in that regard. Religious institutions have had a free ride in this democracy. I'll gladly keep the exemptions in place provided that every single penny received and disbursed is transparent with the public. It's that simple. We Americans have been asked to sacrifice quite a bit since 9/11. These religious and 'charitable' groups have been coated in teflon for far too long.
We Americans are so damn discombobulated by all the bullshit thrown at us that we don't even realize that our status as a 'superpower' has eroded almost to the point of no return. The media is controlled by advertising dollars. The politicians are controlled by special interests. Middle class Americans are controlled by the almighty dollar and the quest to have enough of it to make ends meet. Our education system is a joke. Our children have no respect for America much less themselves and their parents.
We need more parents like Dave who gave a shit about his kids' education and ethical well being. We need more Bloggers not less arguing the issues of the day. Sure, there are the extremists in Blogospheria. Get over it. There are extremists everywhere. The mainstream news media isn't going to reverse the ratings dollars paradigm. It becomes incumbent upon those in this world of Blogdom to keep the debates alive. It's up to those in Blogdom, regardless of ideaolgy, to keep politicians, the media and even ourselves accountable.
We now return you to network programming.
46 - Bob A. Booey
Nancy, have some respect with your smirks! Al is the Grand Elf Wizard of the Indiana Chapter of the Dungeons and Dragons Ayn Rand Libertarian Partay. Don't you know we need to support our President in a time like this? Your comments are simply a non-starter because that dog won't hunt to cut any ice in my father's house and we love to use cliched faux-wonk speak despite not having a clue about how politics work, don't we?
That is all.
47 - Dude
Speaking of insane religious evangelists who like to assassinate people, whatever happen to Osama?
48 - Nancy
Al, I call 'em as I see 'em. In this case, referring to Bush as the Chimp-in-Chief is being restrained, compared to what I really think of him & his buddies. NO ONE gets a free ride just for having bought themselves an elected position - at least, not from me.
49 - Bob A. Booey
Well, everyone buys elections now since we refuse to have real electoral reform in this country. My issue is with Bush is how he's governed once he took office.
That is all.
50 - Nancy
This is true: until corporate money is barred & there's true finance reform, there is no such thing as a true election.
51 - Silas Kain
Speaking of insane religious evangelists who like to assassinate people, whatever happen to Osama?
He has a Mobil Mart franchise in Crawford, Texas.
52 - Bill B
So Mr. Barger was a for real US Senate candidate? And wasn't aware that it's against the law to assassinate foreign leaders? That Chavez was elected as opposed to being a dictator?
There ought to be a test. Some way to keep out the riff raff.
53 - Bob A. Booey
No, he was a Libertarian!
Ba-dum-bum.
That's it for me, folks. I'll be here all week. Enjoy the veal.
That is all.
54 - John Bambenek
The thing I don't get is why anyone was paying attention to Robertson to begin with... he was history when Reagan left office.
55 - Eric Berlin
Bob -- You've watched the original Shrek withint the last week, right ?
56 - Bob A. Booey
Actually, I've never seen it, my friend.
Why? Am I an ogre? He sounds like a funny mofo :)
That is all.
57 - Lee Richards
Anyone like to join me in mourning the demise of the image of America and Americans we once treasured--largely idealistic, altruistic, truthful, just, tolerant, peace-seeking, working to improve--not perfect, but still a shining example of freedom, democracy and national responsibility to the world. Now, we have those like Al advocating "whacking" someone HE decides is a "thug dictator", and soft-pedaling Robertson's vileness as "he's just advocating public policy."
He has no right to advocate murder as a policy of America in my name or the name of any other U.S. citizen who is revolted by such suggestions. When and where did we get the divine right to run every other country on the planet, and why should anyone in the world respect us ever again if we even consider becoming a nation of wanton political killers?
Carpe diem & Peace.
58 - Nick Jones
VOA not propaganda? What does it say at the top center of the page?
Editorials
Reflecting the Views of the
United States Government
Nope, doesn't sound like propaganda to me at all.
59 - RJ
Mr. Robertson is a nut. So is the former coup-leader currently in power in Venezuela.
The difference is, Robertson is a much less dangerous nut than Hugo Chavez Frias.
How many divisions does Robertson have? ;-P
60 - RJ
"this is a duly elected official in his own country, is he invading anyone?"
Go ask Colombia...
61 - Al Barger
Lee, you've got at least a couple of different issues there. One, "He has no right to advocate murder as a policy of America." Well, yes Robertson absolutely does have that right. It's free constitutionally protected political debate about what our government should do.
Now, whether what he's advocating in this particular case makes sense is a different issue. I don't have a strong opinion about Chavez one way or another really, and certainly would not advocate killing him. That would be creating a lot of bad PR for US, if nothing else, and clearly would not be in our overall interest.
On the other hand, yes I think we should most definitely reserve the possibility of just goddam WHACKING a deserving dirtbag from time to time.
I so much do not have any desire to play world police, but our stuff is all interconnected, and people want to come from other parts of the world to kill US here at home.
Thinking forward for example, if it were a viable option- which it might not ever would be- I would say it would be an absolute moral imperative to consider killing some Iranian mullahs rather than letting these extremely vicious and unstable people acquire nuclear weapons.
You can reach for your smelling salts, but all the indignant whining about being revolted and losing respect won't deter those mullahs from getting and using weapons.
Perhaps you'd consider it morally superior to just let it all go until Israel or US ends up having to use nuclear weapons against Iran, rather than considering unpleasant options like political assassination.
I, however, would consider that LESS rather than more moral. Any true morality has to mesh with the real world. If your idea of morality means that we have to just sit back and let many thousands of people die rather than killing a handful of deserving dirtbags to try to prevent it, then your idea of morality is a false and invalid one empirically.
62 - gonzo marx
comment #35 big Al sez...
*So Gonzo, you don't think that Dubya is even TRYING to do good by the nation? He's not merely mistaken in how he goes about it, but has some evil personal agenda? Perhaps you could write a whole new column for us on Dubya's REAL agenda.*
well now..no need fer a whole Article..simplicity itself...
first, scope out all the original WH staff and Cabinet...if memory serves EVERY ONE of them, with the exception of Powell, came from oil, coal or gas (energy businesses)...
how much did you pay for a gallon 5 years ago?
how much now?
i know 5 years ago, a gallon of kerosene was $1.09...price today $2.49...it's what we heat our homes with here in the great white north...you know, like Kennebunkport
remember kiddies..kerosene takes much less refining than gasoline
remember also, that there's NO shortage...OPEC is pumping at full steam...loving that over $50 an dsometimes $60 a barrell price
so, big Al et al...what the fuck do YOU think is the Agenda???
oh yeah..and to stay on topic...Robertson is a dink and a con-man...anyone that sends him money shoudl be checked for EEG signs...
nuff said?
Excelsior!
63 - RJ
"Perhaps you'd consider it morally superior to just let it all go until Israel or US ends up having to use nuclear weapons against Israel"
You mean, Iran, right? :-)
64 - Al Barger
Yes RJ- a mere typo, which is hopefully being editorially corrected.
65 - troll
I'm all in favor of declaring open season on heads of state - Pat's minions shall be sent out on world wide missions of assassination as in earlier evangelical movements
in fact...let's extend the assassination OK down to the seventh level job classification
in addition to being somewhat biblical in scope and therefore appealing to the american public it would solve the problem of bloated governments that wrong wingers complain so much about
off with their heads and off my bridge
troll
66 - Dave Nalle
>>That Chavez was elected as opposed to being a dictator<<
And are you, Bill B, aware that an awful lot of dictators - including Hitler - were elected by the people they eventually oppressed?
Dave
67 - gonzo marx
troll fer Secretary of Defense!!
Excelsior!
68 - Al Barger
troll fer Secretary of Defense!!
SECOND!
69 - Silas Kain
All in favor of troll for Secretary of Defense say "aye"...
70 - gonzo marx
Mr Nalle sez...
*And are you, Bill B, aware that an awful lot of dictators - including Hitler - were elected by the people they eventually oppressed?*
including Bush too, right?
Excelsior!
71 - Dave Nalle
You need to learn to resist the urge to make silly comments just because they pop into your head, gonzo.
Who do you think is more likely to round up the press and throw them in jail in the next 6 months, Chavez or Bush? Let me give you a hint. One of them definitely will, the other one definitely won't. You pick.
Dave
72 - gonzo marx
and you need to resist the urge to swallow the Shrub's load, Mr Nalle...you get 0 points for credibility when you side with someone like Robertson
but then again..that has been your modus operandi...same as the Shrub and crew...join up with anyone that will go your way, because the Ends justify the Means
sorry..i don't buy it..i don't know a fraction fo what is going on in Venezuela...but i do know if folks like Robertson are pissed off, it makes me all happy in my pants...
nuff said?
Excelsior!
73 - Silas Kain
The vision in my mind from that first line of yours leaves me distressed, gonzo. Clinton is something I can picture. The shrub? Well, that's just blasphemy!
74 - Dave Nalle
>>you get 0 points for credibility when you side with someone like Robertson<<
When did I side with Robertson? Being opposed to the budding communist totalitarian state in Venezuela doesn't mean I support a single word of the looniness that spews from Robertson's fanged maw.
>>but then again..that has been your modus operandi...same as the Shrub and crew...join up with anyone that will go your way, because the Ends justify the Means<<
My ass. Show me one time when I've backed Robertson, any other fundies or the PNAC.
sorry..i don't buy it..i don't know a fraction fo what is going on in Venezuela...but i do know if folks like Robertson are pissed off, it makes me all happy in my pants...<<
Well, I do know something about Venezuela, having followed the Chavez regime as it developed.
Robertson's reasons for being pissed off are probably very different from what troubles the rest of us. Chavez is a radical secularist and opposed to the presence of fundamentalist missionaries among the indiginous population in Venezuela - one of his more sensible positions. I assume that's why Robertson has issues with him.
Those of us in the rational middle have differences with him because he's rewritten the constitution and included a really extreme sedition law which will make it possible for him to arrest and imprison anyone who publicly criticizes him or the government. That's the first step towards dictatorship.
Dave
75 - KA
As a Venezuelan I can tell you that Pat Robertsons comments are out of line and irresponsible, which were condonded by even the opposition in Venezuela. Yes Robertson has the right to say what he did but should he have. No! he shouldn't have said what he did. As for the Venezuelan situation Chavez is not as innocent as many people think. While what he says sounds great his actions are very different. Poverty, unemployment, etc.. have all gotten worse.
Please see these links (these are just a few)
http://www.hrw.org/doc?t=americas&c=venezu
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=10240
http://www.vcrisis.com