It’s my considered opinion that unless OWS becomes injected with a brand-new life force and spirit, it has pretty much exhausted itself by now.
We’re two months and two weeks into OWS, far too early to foresee the many possible futures of what still has a potential of becoming a full-fledged movement. And yet, this is ample enough time, I think, to develop a perspective, however partial. In any case, we may try.…
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— go to most recent comments76 - GradyLeeHoward
May I point out here that reproduction is physiologically completed through the process of "Labor" in which the two connected organisms prepare for delivery? (Latin is a paternalistic and scholastic vernacular used professionally and institutionally to hide what we now term intellectual property from the masses.) The babe eclipses the Mother in our mysticism, and also as bourgeois property, as a name to continue custody of family fortune. The privileged classes are more in attune with such abstractions than we commoners, except witness the prescribed facination with royals.
So, a female originates (gives birth and voice to) an insight or concept; doesn't it immediately enter a "free-use" status as opposed to retaining propriety when claimed by a male? The boys start fighting over female produce immediately as it is delivered, negatively or positively (Maury Povich).
How can one "be an anarchist" and yet remain fixated upon the arbitrary workings by the rich in a fictional value? Anarcissie has gotten so far as to comprehend that all debt above a small threshold is fiction, and yet you continue to debate inflation. Inflation is only another form of usury, possible only in a system of recognized and accepted class
categories. "And you wanted to be my 'latex salesman' !?"
We should be discussing how an idealized v
77 - GradyLeeHoward
enue like OWS remains unsuccessful in outsmarting old-timey gender roles (Gingrich's Old-Timey Gender Rolls, a tasty complement to any Christmas table.) and the trappings of socio-economic status. (pseudo-education)
If you have read any Bertolt Brecht plays you have the flavor of what I say. When roger eschews my comments on regulation because I'm only commenting upon things as they are, I would think he'd see himself orbiting way out in cyberspace thinking like our crazy friend Dr. Ron Paul (who has manufactured some re-product in his time as an obstetrician- or so he assumes.) When Noam Chomsky says he is an anarchist this does not mean he has not rationally provided for his off-spring within a crony fascist milieu. (Books is bucks: Or as Diane Rehm pronounces it-buoks).
78 - GradyLeeHoward
Now there's a thought: My "poorer friend" freezing in an unheated rowhouse on the northern tier writes books. She has published several.Let us say she independently produces an outline of the next sequential steps in Chomsky's analysis and that it is as well stated and accurate, and as fulfilling a read as the brand name professor. She beats decrepit Chomsky to he publisher with her galleys. What will happen, and why? (Market is fiction too.)
79 - roger nowosielski
Ee: labor theory of value, I just think Anarcissie complicates things while simplicity would do. So why would "suffering" be incompatible with labor (as a productive or reproductive activity)? Haven't the ancient had the requisite wisdom? -- by the sweat of your brow, Thou ...
Anyone correct me if I'm wrongheaded here, but I find Marx's fundamental definition and distinction between use- , surplus- and exchange values quite satisfactory. Of course, Marx haven't written that much about, or anticipated the advent of, financial capitalism, for I'm certain he would have found the way to speak of "hyped-up value" as well.
Just sayin ...
80 - roger nowosielski
Further comment on #71
Grady's right in that interest rates, inflation, money making money, is just fluff, or shall we say? a way to draw us suckers into their system. Capitalism wouldn't work if it couldn't depend on armies of passive followers. Some people have even compared the "work" of investors to work. But why should mere waiting for money to appreciate in "value" be even remotely associated with work?
Joseph didn't just wait seven years to earn his rights to marry Rachel but worked. And when he was cheated, he worked another seven.
All said, we must reconfigure the concept of value if we're to disengage from capitalism for good. The second of David Harvey's lectures on "Reading Capital" contains some interesting ideas.
81 - Anarcissie
Well, perhaps my little thought experiment, still a nystery to me, can be explained by means of analysis of power relations.
I think it's important to understand what's going on in capitalism, even if it is fiction. It's probably the most revolutionary ideology in history, at least since the invention of slavery. I think we need to know what it's doing if we are going to reform or replace it, even if it's a con game. In fact, especially if it's a con game.
82 - roger nowosielski
Right, we've got to learn the con's game in order to beat the con.
83 - roger nowosielski
Another author raises valid concerns about lack of participation on the part of the African-Americans in OWS.
I may have linked to this article earlier, but in case I haven't, here it is.
84 - roger nowosielski
Go Local! the natural extension of OWS overall strategy.
85 - Anarcissie
'... So it is that the Occupiers in Knoxville, Tenn., plan to start occupying foreclosed homes, to dramatize banks' actions.' ...
Ah, real estate! If that catches on, it'll be a hot item in pretty short order. So far, though, foreclosure resistance and occupation (ongoing actions in some areas) haven't excited the public.
86 - roger nowosielski
They had a showdown a while back, in SF or some other place, I believe, but that was before #occupy.
But this would be a good idea, for it would strike a chord.
87 - Anarcissie
It's an ongoing activity. So far it does not seem to have caught the imagination of the general public -- which is, as ever, mysterious.
88 - roger nowosielski
Perhaps we're all hibernating during the winter months. I myself need a good shot of adrenaline to keep on going. And it doesn't help if there's only the three of us.
But then again, who am I to complain? As Michael Moore commented once, Uncle Karl had only Engels to consort with.
I still think we should be able to make further progress separating high-stakes poker from down-to-earth economic activity and finance. There's got to be a way.
89 - roger nowosielski
BTW, just saw two movies on Hulu Plus, Danton and re-watched Z. The latter is rather naive; one could wish the overthrowing of the US government would be such a piece of cake as the latter makes it seem. But the French Revolution still offers an object lesson, I think, on how to proceed. All the elements are there.
You don't need to respond to this: I certainly don't want to incriminate anyone.
90 - Maurice
Igor - I have a BSEE so I am ill equipped to understand economic problems. The article I pasted was written by Charles Calomiris who is a Professor of Economics at Colombia and Peter Wallison who is a lawyer graduated from Harvard that specializes in economics.
What are your credentials that you claim your version of the meltdown is more correct than theirs?
91 - Anarcissie
I prefer evidence and logic to credentials, especially when the credentials refer to dubious arts like economics and psychology. If you look around, though, you will not only find that many economists do not think subprime mortgages brought down the American financial system. Indeed, you will find many predicted a meltdown or some other catastrophe as a result of Bubbles Greenspan's penchant for printing money, or rather, inflating credit -- long before the event occurred. I am not an economist but it was certainly obvious to me by 2002-2003 that it was coming, and many people agreed with me. But not, of course, the fatheads in charge.
Attributing the collapses of 2006-2008 to subprime mortgagors is just more blaming the victim, a rightist tradition, but not a very admirable one.
92 - GradyLeeHoward
Peter Wallison recently made an ass of himself on the Diane Rehm Show. The comments, e-mails and tweets overwhelmingly begged that he never be asked back. Wallison is a paid propagandist who specializes in the Fannie-Freddie Theory of Meltdown. That argument has been settled here and in general discourse. As guarantors of mortgages F&F were the tail-end of the dog.
We are way down the road now and understand that 700 trillion in derivatives is an undeniable symptom of financialization gone wild. Failure to regulate exotic instruments or to tax transactions are great crimes against humanity. Do we count every bet in a casino as contributing to the GDP?
A productive direction is recommended by Anarcissie in #81. Power relations requires models and theories to facilitate discourse.
I started with John Gaventa's 1982 book (Power and Powerlessness) and moved on to the theoretical interests of Steven Lukes (Power: A Radical View)enta is in Canada now and is receiving awards for his Rubik's Cube model of power relations and Lukes is at New York University, and still educating us with editorship of relevant material. They begin with the idea that power in the community, or in national politics can be describes as having 3 dimensions. I will not elaborate here except to say I've attempted to assimilate their work with M. Foucault's. The third dimension included mental colonization and so interfaces well with films by Adam Curtis (Century of the Self ) and Jeff Warrick (Programming the Nation- recently released). I myself have focused on the pseudo-science aspects of propaganda by American right wing institutions. When you see the refusal to examine actual events and relations (as with the F&F theory), and a relentless repeating of talking points (Obama Administration does this too)it becomes undeniable that something greater than disseminating the news is in place. Please take time to peruse Gaventa and Lukes according to your tastes. I am as lonely as Engels out here waiting for brain power.
93 - GradyLeeHoward
Igor is correct to bring economist and investment banker Michael Hudson into the discussion. His credentials are international and far exceed opposite fascist numbers mentioned here. Hudson's views are in the Macro-sphere rather conventional and old school. His system is based upon taxing appreciation of land values (from Henry George). In the case of Lithuania and Greece he recommends they return to former currencies, rebel against the IMF (and other globalist authorities) and use inflation as a sovereign defense. His arguments are easily understood by non-economists, but he can cite sophisticated econometric tools as evidence. Hudson's best talents are as an educator. Some of his lectures are excellent.
94 - GradyLeeHoward
As far as the Macro-theory of American Empire and power concentration Chris Hedges' teacher Sheldon Wolin (Princeton) is unassailable in his descriptive summing up of our catastrophe. He can explain why we have "managed democracy." See his 2008 book "Democracy Incorporated" or see Hedges's speeches and columns, or articles on Wolin in the Nation magazine.
95 - GradyLeeHoward
If no one is interested enough to explore any of the scholarship I have cited I see no use in posting further on this thread. It would be nice to know details of the international shenanigans of financial crime, but secrecy is strictly enforced by governments, trade organizations and the players themselves. We waste time speculating how a magic trick is done maybe because we admire the con. But that makes no difference as far as fairness and human rights are concerned, because we are sure financialization is a trick (requires all phases of power) and a crime. There would be temporary satisfaction in punishing perpetrators but the deterrent value would be small and other gamblers would soon return to former practices. The lure of wealth and power are insurmountable. That is why reform (half-way measures) won't do, and why structural reorganization and generalized re-education are required. (You can't turn brainwashed people loose without direction or resources and expect a good outcome. Purist Libertarians and Anarchists share that fallacy.) Resources are tight and time is short. How can rational cooperation among humanity be facilitated. Ideology is a matter of taste, like religion, in such an emergency as we face. That is why OWS was experimenting and grasping at straws.
96 - roger nowosielski
Grady, my man, just got on the computer, plus, we may have different timelines.
Rest assured I'm the least person to ignore sources and other people's postings; and I'm certain it's no different with Anarcissie.
Besides, you've got to realize you pack lots of stuff into your comments. One can't just respond at will unless a person doesn't care whether his or her response is a responsible one.
97 - roger nowosielski
And BTW, see earlier links of mine re: Gaventa and Lukes. I'll go over the cited papers again.
Also looked at Wolin's work you cite, and originally found him "too pedestrian," but now you provided me with the opportunity to review it in light of your comments.
And BTW, I perfectly understand your sentiment when people don't attend to your sources -- I've dealt with this problem many a times in the past, so I understand how frustrating it is to have a continuous dialogue with persons who are less than responsive.
(Which perhaps should tell you why I was so intent on forming a discussion group; I wanted to ensure against this kind of failure.)
98 - roger nowosielski
"The Latex Salesman" bugged me for two days now, for not being able to place it.
Well, for those who are not in the know, ladies and gents, here it is.
99 - roger nowosielski
@97
See comments 23 and 27 from a previous thread.
And here are the relevant links:
Gaventa
Lukes
100 - roger nowosielski
I'm re-posting one manuscript from Lukes
101 - roger nowosielski
A snippet of "Power and Powerlessness" from Google books; the jackasses not only changed the format so as to make it impossible to read; they've also reduced the size of the preview to bare bones -- if that much.
A review by Alison Harding.
102 - Dr Dreadful
Rest assured I'm the least person to ignore sources and other people's postings
What's the best way to clean coffee off a computer?
103 - roger nowosielski
gottcha ...
Does come across as droppings, doesn't it?
104 - roger nowosielski
Well, finally got something can sink my teeth into:
"Luke's Three Dimensions of Power."
105 - GradyLeeHoward
When you hear that Lukes was a "reader" at Oxford understand that is a title of prestige and responsibility akin to "research professorship" here. He is legally blind and so has a contemplative nature not prevalent in our academic experience.
Gaventa is a former Highlander Research Center director. Both he and I knew and had in person discussions with Myles Horton. There are good reasons Gaventa has expatriated to Canada, for he was blacklisted in the American academy, not for activism but for an honest scholarship of idle curiosity.
So that is the geneology of my political philosophy. At present I am attempting to connect what Foucault called "governmentality" to Wolin. In the USA that is the weakest and most repressed area of discourse.
106 - roger nowosielski
I'm aware of the "reader" honorifics, Grady. I find it ticklish, however, there would be a person who would challenge me to do hard intellectual work. The last time I remember anything like that would be some thirty five years ago or so -- my German-Czech girlfriend who was a magna cum laude and I was still a pup back then.
I'm far from complaining, just tickles my bones.
107 - GradyLeeHoward
Take the Rubik's cube concept as a for instance. If one can manipulate to one colored faces according to the "music of the spheres" then isn't that idiot savantism? My suspicion is that while Gaventa is older and wiser than when we worked together in the late 80s and 90s he is no smarter or cleverer, just maybe careworn. But he has followed the advice of Gunter Grasse and understands how audiences are mesmerized by clever parlor tricks using familiar toys. The three faces of power was adequate as a teaching tool, so why invent computer games?
An accurate model often negates the analogy.
Even in Canada showmanship is required to avoid rebukes. But I remember how he arrived there in a green smoking VW Squareback, with a pot fastened over the aftermarket carburetor in the hatch floor. He is a living fossil of Chaucer's student, trading comfort for texts. The alternative outcome is Julian Bond or Jesse Jackson, Sr.
108 - roger nowosielski
I'm nearly done with the "Three Dimensions of Power" and will comment shortly.
I'll look into the Rubik's cube next.
109 - GradyLeeHoward
Squatting in foreclosed homes has been tried, most successfully in Florida. Surprisingly there has been some complicity by sheriff's departments. It was discussed on Bill Moyers Journal shortly before the demise. There exists precedent in common law and in some state codes for occupancy over a term gaining legal possession. You find these old laws in Georgia where civilized Indian nations were displaced and on the erstwhile frontier. Some urban districts experimented with squatter ownership in the 70s. I have a friend who gained title to a nice loft in Baltimore that way, but he had Democratic Party connections.
When Pia Zadora was my girlfriend at the studio (We played brother and sister aliens in Santa Claus Versus Mars.) she never encouraged intellectual ambition. It was on the set of "The Tin Drum" that my higher instincts came alive. Oskar made struggling with evil so much fun. And I too had been "thrown down the stairs."
110 - roger nowosielski
Clavos should know a thing or two about it since he's a longtime Florida resident.
What say you, Clavos?
111 - GradyLeeHoward
You've broken a thought barrier. Now you'll never be done with the three faces of power. It is the key to understanding poverty psychology and victim blaming, and every feeling of social inferiority you ever had. It's like social collective penicillin compared to the individualistic patent medicine of "positive thinking." Now you can anticipate all Establishment tricks. Only raw force lies outside this scheme, but the threat of raw force is within it. Military violence and counterinsurgency are last ditch measures. They have already tasted defeat once they use those. Hold on to the vocabulary Lukes provides just as Raymond Williams would (Keywords).
mobilization of bias,
agenda setting and so forth are poetry.
Goodbye, you have graduated and need me no longer.
112 - roger nowosielski
Alright, done with the article linked to in #104. A couple of observations.
A fairly comprehensive layout of the conceptual itinerary. A step-by-step analysis of how we moved from the static conception of power to the Foucauldian conception. Dahl is an old ghost, by the way; we discarded him in mid sixties. You can't get much mileage out of political science practitioners anyway; too much "behaviorist," not enough penetration. In any case, it's the mechanisms of power we're unaware of which are most effective (Foucault); and one of Foucault's greatest accomplishments was to show that those mechanisms weren't even contrived, as though by some kind of grand conspiracy, but evolved naturally and organically. Of course, once they were recognized for their intrinsic worth, they were adopted by the bourgeoisie like manna sent from heaven.
Even so, Gaventa's account of the Appalachian community (after Lukes' schemata) is well taken -- especially considering the Anglo-Saxon limitations of mind: abstract thinking has never been the forte, which is why you have to spoon-feed these people, lead them by the nose and example, as it were. (Which isn't to say the kind of thinking exhibited by John Austin (Illocutionary Acts, How to do things with words) doesn't have it's merits. It certainly provides an important counterpoint.
A couple of questions. Why did the Appalachian region succumbed to the takeover whereas a similar such process met with greater resistance in other places. For one thing, Which side are you on? comes to mind. The author of the article doesn't explain.
For perfidy's sake, to accentuate perhaps the height of "false consciousness," let me suggest another episode from our fairly recent history: The Murder of Mary Phagan, excellent dramatization of real-life events in 1920's Georgia. It's the same if not similar process, whereby the Industrial North humbles the agricultural South into submission and abandoning its way of life for meagerly wages; even the young are forced to work to make the ends meet. The South responds to the hideous murder by sticking to the law (of the land), which holds all equally responsible for crimes alleged or done. It's the only thing it's got left to hold on to its honor. In the process, innocent person gets lynched.
In any case, I don't see much of an advancement here beyond Foucault.
113 - roger nowosielski
@111
I sure hope your meaning is metaphorical. Don't know 'bout you, but I surely am not an island.
114 - jeannie danna
I'm not sure what the TeaParty would have in common with OWS, Roger. But I'm pleased to see the honor you bestowed on Dr. West who is the voice of OccupySCOTUS.
Let none forget that the Tea was brewed in a very wealthy boardroom, while OWS was borne out of disdain for this great and ever growing wealth disparity.
IMO, if OWS doesn't translate into OccupyAVotingBooth then it's all for not.
Just one long camp out...
115 - roger nowosielski
What and unexpected surprise, Jeannie. So damn happy to hear from you, I mean it.
A simple answer to your question -- I've always been a unifyier if and when possible, never the divider. If there is a common ground to be found, I'll look for it.
116 - roger nowosielski
Raymond Williams, another one of my favorites, especially his work on culture and society, prior to "Key Words."
It's been the basis of my first novel.
117 - Maurice
Anarcissie - As I said, I am NOT an expert in economics so the best I can do is read the information and evaluate it logically.
Here is a bit of history to consider:
In 1992, President George H.W. Bush signed the Housing and Community Development Act of 1992. The Act amended the charter of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to reflect Congress' view that the GSEs "... have an affirmative obligation to facilitate the financing of affordable housing for low- and moderate-income families in a manner consistent with their overall public purposes, while maintaining a strong financial condition and a reasonable economic return;"[14] For the first time, the GSEs were required to meet "affordable housing goals" set annually by the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) and approved by Congress. The initial annual goal for low-income and moderate-income mortgage purchases for each GSE was 30% of the total number of dwelling units financed by mortgage purchases[15] and increased to 55% by 2007.
I will go down the road with you as far as banks behaving badly and predatory loan tactics but certainly the GSE's are part of the whole subprime meltdown.
118 - roger nowosielski
Maurice,
I don't think anyone would argue here there was a collusion. But it's precisely the collusion which is wrong with both business and the government. Even though the government's motives were, shall we say? "pure."
What is it really you're trying to accomplish? Take away the blame from one party and assign in entirely to the other?
All were equally blameworthy and equally responsible. And trying to make a significant distinction here, as though there was a valid distinction to be made, does indeed strike me as some kind of unwarranted bias.
But then again, I don't want to preempt anything Anarcissie might want to say by way of response. Sorry for butting in.
119 - Anarcissie
As I probably said before, money (in a capitalist polity), including credit money, creates pressure. It has to go somewhere. The wonderland of adjustable-rate subprime mortgages was one of the places if found to go.
Capitalists, investors, who find they can borrow money at near-zero, below-inflation interest rates do not sit on this information.
120 - roger nowosielski
Occupy Home.
This is great. Now we'll have our police doing their damnedest to evict ex-residents so as to make 'em homeless again.
The fight is on!
121 - El Bicho
Jeannie, great to see you back.
"I've always been a unifyier if and when possible, never the divider."
I wonder if the enemies of democracy will agree with that statement.
122 - roger nowosielski
It was a comment which was meant to be provocative, not to estrange but ultimately to unite.
Thanks for the drive-by visit nonetheless.
123 - Anarcissie
On occupation of foreclosed houses.
124 - roger nowosielski
In any case, it is a step in the right direction, establishing rapport with the local communities.
I am encouraged.
125 - El Bicho
Roger, I don't have time this evening to waste responding to your comment but will attempt to do so tomorrow evening. Here's a teaser: I find it ridiculous