Can one oppose Israel's actions without condeming Judaism? It appears not.
I am not sure what is worse: Mel Gibson’s “freak out” or everyone’s apparent lack of caring. His slurs are nothing new to me or any other Jewish person. Jewish jokes are considered harmless. Even Jews tell them and usually better. What bothers me is a growing global attitude towards anti-Semitic things.…
Article comments
26 - kanrei
I am not calling YOUR personal beliefs into question at all. Post 24 made that very clear. I do not know you or anyone else here yet and cannot assume anything about what anyone here believes or does not. I did not know you even existed when I wrote the article.
There is an old expression: throw a rock into a pack of dogs and the one that "yelps" is the one you hit. No one here has called anyone else here anything. If someone is identifying with a comment, then they should examine their own beliefs.
I said quite clearly that "I do not think you are that person, Dean. I am speaking in general terms". Don't know how else to make that clearer.
27 - Dean
You said:
“I do not think you are that [anti-semite} person, Dean.”
Then why bring it up?
Do you know what innuendo is?
It is when something is insinuated.
28 - kanrei
Dean,
Go back through the thread. You brought up the term "Anti-Semite". You said holocaust denier, I answered that, then you said anyone questions he holocaust is labeled an anti-semite and I said I did not think you are one.
Don't protest a label not applied to you when it is self-inflicted. I have never even illuded to you being one.
29 - Dr Politico
JP,
Nice one! :)
I'll have to close the door behind me next time!
30 - Dean
kanrei:
"I do not think you are that [anti-semite] person, Dean…. “
“Don't protest a label not applied to you when it is self-inflicted.”
What was self-inflicted?
31 - RJ Elliott
Six million, one million, 100,000, or 10 million, what's the difference? (Well, other than the obvious...) No matter how you count it, a lot of Jews were deliberately killed by the Germans during WWII.
I disagree strongly with the jailing of people who question the exact numbers killed, or methods used to kill them. But, the larger point is, lots of Jews were slaughtered during WWII. I would like to think that this is something every rational human being can agree upon...
32 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Kanrei,
Wake up. Gibson, drunk or sober, speaks for millions of people. He did the equivalent of yelling "nigger bastard." A lot of people agree with that comment too. But they keep their traps shut, except on the nazi sites, when they feel they can speak their minds.
Gibson, like HizbAllah and Ahmadinejad, are honest enemies. Would you prefer them or would you prefer a backstabber - like Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Mahmoud Abbas, George Bush or the pope?
Jews in exile will be consumed in the lands of their enemies. And, whether you realize it or not or like it or not, America's government is an enemy of Israel.
33 - kanrei
Ruvy,
I do not consider myself a Jew in Exile. I am an American who is Jewish.
34 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Kanrei,
Thousands of German Jews considered themselves Germans of the Mosaic persuasion. It didn't matter what they considered themselves when someone who considered them to be contaminants of the human race took over the country.
It matters little what you consider yourself. Those who hate you in America will consider you an enemy and a traitor whether you like it or not. Or did nobody cover the shooting at the Jewish Federation building in Seattle? To non-Jews, you are just another Jew, and you need to hope they treat you with respect.
Between anti-Jewish and anti-Israel sentiment being pushed on universities, a growing Jew hating Moslem minority and a media that automatically paints Israel in the wrong, not to mention loads of Jews who either want to intermarry, or who like you, disassociate yourself from your own roots, you are being squeezed in America from several sides.
Several years ago, I figured this out myself.
35 - kanrei
Ruvy,
You can live by "my country right or wrong". It's your choice. I accept that, much like Judism teaches about G-d, that countries are also capible of great evil or great good. You want to feel "America hates me so screw them" and you have that right.
who like you, disassociate yourself from your own roots
Get off your high horse. This coversation is over.
"Personal attacks are not allowed. Please read our comment policy"
36 - Lady Dragonfyre
Dr Politico:
will make everything all better.
BTW, the drunk excuse that Mel offered is a bit specious, considering that his blood alcohol level was only a 0.12 -- that's like 3 maybe 4 drinks. It usually takes me at least 7 drinks before I engage in hate speech.
lol - one sip would probably get me to a 0.12. I drink very rarely.
Kanrei:
Are all Christians represented by the Vatican? Then why should all Jews be held accountable for Israel’s actions?
That's a tricky analogy because the Vatican only "runs" the Roman Catholic Church, not the whole of Christendom, and Israel is a state.
But certainly, all Jews shouldn't be held accountable for Israel's actions - that's ridiculous. That belief reminds me of the prison camps the U.S. government threw Japanese Americans in during WWII. The "lucky" ones endured racist remarks, vandalism, and even physical attacks. We never learn, do we?
Neither does the Middle East, apparently. Israel and all its neighbors have been fighting with each other in some capacity for over 2000 years, and their hatred is rooted in ideological differences spanning centuries.
It definitely won't happen in our lifetimes, but I hope someday they'll all get over themselves and direct their money toward providing a better life for their citizens.
Bush is nauseatingly convinced that democracy will make everything all better. Other folks think Christianity/Islam/
Unfortunately, those people are only part of the problem. What we all need is neutrality - or at least, strive for it. We don't need to shortchange our own philosophies in order to respect someone else's.
Religion has never hurt or helped anyone. People have. It's people who interpret religious texts and choose to use their teachings for good or ill.
It's people who have elected to use their own interpretations of Islamic teachings to brainwash young men into blowing themselves up in public places, "in the name of Allah" It was people who engaged in holy war against the Arabs a thousand years ago, not the cross of Saint George flying above their heads, or worn over their armor.
I agree about Gibson - words spoken in drunkenness only reflect your otherwise unspoken beliefs. Nonetheless, one man's ignorant slur certainly does NOT speak for millions.
Sorry for rambling. Good article. :)
37 - kanrei
Lady,
I did not see any rambling =D
Thank you.
38 - Roddy
Give 'em hell, Mel. I support you 100% & hope you get the drinkling thing under control.