The Occupy Wall Street movement lacks direction and specificity
Some have compared the ongoing Wall Street demonstrations with the early rallies of the Tea Party. Beyond the obvious ideological differences lies the basic fact that the Tea Party assemblies continue to be orchestrated and instigated by various politicians, various groups, on a single-day basis, to promote candidates, and to improve grass-roots support for factions in the Republican Party that are notoriously pro-corporation. Trusting voters are assured they are assembling to demand less spending and more patriotism from the government.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Cindy
Dave, your naivete is so refreshing.
What does it take to keep believing what you do. Simple logic dictates that if you have a gov't power and you make competition and wealth accumulation the order of the day, then, no matter how free your free markets are from gov't, those who win will arrange to co-opt the gov't if it has power. Period. End of story. Men on moon? Get wealth try to control power? How hard is it? (Hint: as hard as handing a politician money.) Thus, as long as you have a system where politicians can be bought, you have a problem. Having a free market and limited gov't together, even in your fondest conceptualization, is a doomed prospect.
27 - roger nowosielski
It's possible given the assumption that both businessmen and politicians are moral.
28 - REMF(MCH)
"El bicho, [personal attack deleted by comments editor] You and [edited] like you are why I don't come around here any more. And now I'll say good bye again."
El bicho, thank you.
29 - Glenn Contrarian
Why does Dave believe as he does? It keeps him in the position he's in. Personally, I believe that Dave's trapped into vocally supporting positions that make him gag inwardly...but if he were to stand on principle and speak out, he'd be ostracized on the spot. In all honesty I pity Dave for that reason, for he serves as an object lesson to anyone who might want to enter politics, how all too often one must check his or her principles at the door.
30 - Jordan Richardson
Saw this and couldn't help but wonder if Arch was, at one point and time, Conservative Jones, Boy Detective.
31 - Jordan Richardson
Here's one article titled "China and Russia Are Enjoying Occupy Wall Street," but it doesn't appear to make much of a point other than to tell us how China and Russia are reacting to the movements. It notes that "there doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm among officials for having protests in China itself," so one has to imagine that China's "enjoyment" of the protests is rather tempered.
Other than that, there wasn't really anything of substance out there to suggest much support from China. It's too bad. I'm certain there are many Chinese experiencing economic inequality that need their voices heard.
32 - Jordan Richardson
And, by the way, here's one of the plans coming out of the OWS movements:
"On October 29, on the eve of the G20 Leaders Summit in France, let's the people of the world rise up and demand that our G20 leaders immediately impose a 1% #ROBINHOOD tax on all financial transactions and currency trades. Let's send them a clear message: We want you to slow down some of that $1.3-trillion easy money that's sloshing around the global casino each day �" enough cash to fund every social program and environmental initiative in the world."
33 - Christopher Rose
Actually, Glenn, Dave believes as he does cos of the dogma he subscribes to, his beliefs; just like you.
It is about the limiting factor of faith in something, which is what needs checking at the door...
34 - Christopher Rose
Don't really like the name "Robin Hood tax" but I do like the idea of applying a 1% tax rate on all these financial transactions. Can't actually think of any reasons why they shouldn't be taxed.
35 - Jordan Richardson
Agree. I think the name will be a lightning rod for the usual suspects and pundits, but the idea is a strong, tangible way to put some real money toward real solutions.
36 - El Bicho
"it's supporters are proof that there are also far too many stupid people in the world."
more proof: people who don't know the possessive form of "it"
37 - Glenn Contrarian
Chris -
I guess you and I will have to agree to disagree on that one. Dave's a political animal in a significantly political position, and I've seen quite a few politicians flip-flop on issues over the years. Do they really change their mind? Or do they swallow their pride (and better judgment) in order to say what needs to be said so they can keep their job?
One of us is being more cynical than usual, and one of us is being a wee bit pollyannish. Wonders never cease....
38 - Arch Conservative
I made a grammatical error. You righteously support a movement of petulant, ignorant, dilettantes. Congratulations El Bicho. You're the better man.
Why wasn't there some kind of warning that your link was to the Daily Red Jordan? It took me twenty minutes to sterilize my mouse.
39 - Crise Angoisse
Some people will protest because they are looking for a sense of belonging. They don't want to feel alone...or...let's face it, they have nothing better to do.
40 - Jordan Richardson
Why wasn't there some kind of warning that your link was to the Daily Red Jordan? It took me twenty minutes to sterilize my mouse.
Huh?
41 - Christopher Rose
Glenn, it is your right to disagree, but that doesn't mean you ARE right.
I can't see any meaningful difference between those who follow political dogmas or other less secular ones. It is a betrayal of humanity in either case.
42 - Christopher Rose
Archie, on what do you base your assertion as to the nature of the Occupy movement participants?
Based on your posting, it is you that seems petulant and ignorant, so maybe we will see you joining your nearest protest?
43 - trol l
...while protesting on the sidewalk at 3am the rare drive-by comment from the likes of King Con keeps me warm
my signage when feeling less generous = which side are you on?
44 - Cindy
I love that, troll! Reminiscent of my fav article on. Whose Side Are You On: The Moral Clarity of Occupy Wall Street
45 - troll
I like that piece Cindy - the moral choice is clear
46 - roger nowosielski
For a while, I though Arch was turning around, his words sounding true. It was an illusion clearly dispelled by his typical intransigency.
@44 & 45
It's all about morality and justice, the only basis for economic and political system. There are no other grounds.
47 - roger nowosielski
BTW, Mark, Cindy, Jordan, Anarcissie,
Global Revolution live-stream need on the ground reporters. I would love to cover the Nashville occupation but for lack of a vehicle, I'm stranded elsewhere.
Food for thought.
48 - Cindy
Train!
49 - Cindy
Bus!
50 - Cindy
or...erideshare
51 - Dr Dreadful
Standing at side of road with thumb stuck out seems more in the Occupy spirit, Cindy...
Still, Greyhound from Memphis to Nashville probably ain't that expensive.
It would indeed be an interesting one to have some coverage of. Nashville is a quite liberal city with a very conservative statehouse. They probably have no idea what to do about the protest.
52 - roger nowosielski
Vanderbilt is downtown, a potential center of occupation activity. A fertile ground for recruitment.
53 - Dr Dreadful
Well, really it's a bus ride or a very stiff walk from downtown, but I see what you mean.
54 - peter petterson
Moving to the political left is the only way for them to go. But that doesn't mean they are going communist, whatever that is now, but they cant support the political right! We are supposedly getting some protest in both Wellington and Auckland, and across the ditch in Sydney.
55 - Cannonshop
I'll disagree with the headline here-it's not that the "Occupy" movement is missing direction, not at all-no more than the Tea Party is. The TP scares the hell out of the Republican Establishment just like OWS could scare the hell out of the Democrat establishment-because both of them are "DYNAMIC"-not frozen into a single, half-paragraph length dogma as the more 'mainstream' movements are.
One is "On the Left" and the other is "On the Right", but they're basically protesting the SAME THING.
Why do I say this? Look at the REAL leaders on the Left, and in the GOP, look at their backgrounds, contributors, moneymen and campaign owners, and you discover an awful lot of names in common, schools in common, and behaviours in common.
I've actually had to eat some crow recently on this, the flavour is still fresh-it doesn't MATTER who started these movements, or who's signed on since, the core of both movements are pissed off about the SAME THINGS-the only differences in the end are what they might suggest as directions of correction.
What is it?
Government-sponsored-Crony-"Capitalism", Misgovernment, malinvestment, intrusions by power-brokers into private lives, government-sponsored attacks on personal freedom, "National (in)security", the culture of influence-peddling, and the chronic similarity of misdeeds regardless of who gets elected.
Personally, I hope and pray that the OWS crowd continues to prosper until they have reached the point of scaring the Parties in Charge as badly as the Tea Party did-because in the end, they're not asking for redistribution, they're not asking for equality of outcomes, and they aren't asking for Uncle Sugar to put them to bed and make them eat their veggies and care for them from cradle-to-coffin.
They want what we're supposed to have-a government accountable to the electorate, not the corporations or money-men (neither Koch nor Soros), that is here to protect our common liberties and maintain the common defense in some kind of rational manner (as opposed to involving us in every brushfire war worldwide).
Forget what the self-styled 'Leaders' tell you about either movement-because they are only quoted because they make a claim to a position that doesn't exist. The rank-and-file are out there because something has gone fundamentally wrong, and the status-quo isn't going to solve it.
56 - Jordan Richardson
Well said, Cannonshop. Agree 100 percent.
57 - El Bicho
"You're the better man."
Really not that tough considering how low you set the bar, but why don't you pull your head out of your preconceived notions for a bit and learn what's happening rather than just assume everyone to the left of you is stupid and worthy of insulting.
I haven't righteously supported them yet so not sure how you made that bit up but I certainly appreciate and respect their dedication to protest the wrongs they see.
58 - Cannonshop
#56 it helps, Jordan, that I ran into some folks whom I KNOW attended Tea Party rallies, who're also now involved in (for want of a better term) the "Occupy" movement. As these are people whom I know and respect personally, I tend to take their word as to the nature of BOTH movements rather more seriously than I take the word of Newsies or Pundits or Bloggers.
I guess that you could say that there are two diametrically opposed types of 'Centrists' out there, the ones in D.C. and Olympia are one type, 'centrists for the status quo', perhaps, and the other type seem to be increasingly common between the Tea Parties and "Occupy" group- Centrists who understand the status quo is not a good situation.
Centrists opposed to business as usual, if you will.
The chief goal of the former type (also seen in media), of course, is to polarize the groups by drumming on their differences, to paint a bipolar boilerplate and keep opposition to the Crony-State divided, and thus, weak.
59 - roger nowosielski
So it does take a "personal touch," Cannon, doesn't it?
60 - Arch Conservative
Occupy Wall Street: Young, Dumb and Full of.....Hope and Change
61 - zingzing
archie: meaningless comment.
62 - Arch Conservative
Well one thing's for sure...all the bleeding heart, moonbat, college aged white females engaged in this occupy movement who've only in their most private moments allowed their fantasies of being sodomized by a black man to creep into their minds are now having that most secret of fantasies fulfilled as Barry Sotero has just found the useful idiots that he plans on using like yesterday's crack whore in an effort to maintain the precious power that justifies his ungodly, narcisssistic, superiority complex.
63 - Arch Conservative
how's that one....find any meaning there...as much as i despise most of you here on BC...you do provide valuable entertainment............
64 - John Lake
College aged white females. You have my undivided attention.
Thanks for the flurry of comments. I feel better already.
65 - Dr Dreadful
John, I think Mr Harold Steptoe said it better than I ever could...
66 - zingzing
that was god-like, archie. gotta hand you that one. as many props as i can hold up.
67 - Costello
Such hostility, but then many racists find the greatest offense to be race mixing so it's sadly understandable
68 - zingzing
it was archie doing archie in a 69 position. the snake milking. the meta-bomb.
69 - Arch Conservative
Gee I'm genuinely very upset that it took four comments before someone came along and called me a racist.
70 - troll
Arch Conservative - if you wish to develop a critique of the occupy movement that might have legs take a look at the nlp techniques in use
thus for example a while back I overheard a group discussing how to discuss where it was deemed 'more fun' to use the 'people's mic' even in small group settings
a chilling moment - hints of the commodification of the process -- spectacle or protest...only her hairdresser knows for sure
...spare us from Leaders in this environment
in observing the small group that you referred to in your comments somewhere what signage and behavior did you find most alienating?
71 - Glenn Contrarian
Arch -
Gee I'm genuinely very upset that it took four comments before someone came along and called me a racist.
You're the one who took the conversation into the gutter with your 'sodomized' remark.
You might not realize this, Arch, but one of the most difficult things for a writer to do is to write outside his or her own personality. It's easy to do in one or five or ten tries...but when it's many hundreds (or even thousands) of tries, it approaches impossibility for even the most skilled writer.
So...is your personality showing? Are you racist? I haven't seen enough data on the latter question to make a judgment, but on the former question? If I answered that question, would you give it the least amount of consideration? I sincerely doubt it, so I won't bother.
Again, Arch, it's extremely difficult to hide one's personality in one's writing.
72 - Arch Conservative
If you think that I'm a racist because of my little joke a couple of posts ago then you're an idiot.
73 - El Bicho
If that's supposed to be a joke, don't go into comedy
74 - Arch Conservative
ah it's El Bicho. Everyone's favorite answer to a question that was never asked.
75 - zingzing
it was a joke, i say. or at least that's how i read it. and it was funny. obviously over the top. archie's an ass, no doubt. but i think he knows it. that was obviously going over the top. if he can't do that, then none of us can.
archie's got opinions that are awful, but i don't think you can pin this one on him. and if you do, you're taking things too seriously.
come on, it was pretty creative. totally wrong, but creative. like someone shitting into cellophane.