Did Obama really confess to being a Muslim? Or did he just confess to being confused, conflicted and troubled?
You've heard this kind of story. A man's boss introduces him to a new client named Mr. Starr, who happens to have a huge scar running down his cheek. The man is desperate to make a good impression and quite nervous, and knows that the one thing he absolutely must not do is address the client as Mr. Scar. So he focuses all his attention on not saying the name wrong, and what's the first thing out of his mouth? "Hello, Mr. Scar." He inevitably says exactly the one thing which he absolutely must not say.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Jordan Richardson
Only in my dreams, Arch.
27 - Cannonshop
Dunno, I think he just got so used to dealing with the muslim-slur that he had a celebrity moment.
28 - Dr Dreadful
Who is this iLumpy?
Is it the new, pocket-sized Lumpy that comes in three different colors and can store up to 10,000 comments?
29 - Dave Nalle
>>Whoa, that's a whole mess of interpretation for one slip of the tongue. Slow news day?<<
Just thought it would be a fun break from discussion Sarah Palin endlessly. Now I'm off to work on my new Palin article.
But there were some good points in the comments. It is remarkable that Stephanopolos hit Obama so hard with his questions. As someone pointed out, Obama kept spouting whoppers and Stphanopolos just slapped him down again and again. It was like he was possessed by the late Tim Russert. Sephanopolous seems to have learned the journalist's maxim - "never ask a question you don't know the answer to." Obama needs to learn the corollary that you never lie to a journalist who is reading questions from one hand and holding the correct answers in his other hand.
Dave
30 - Cannonshop
Well... I wonder if George wasn't harboring a bit of residual irritation over the Primaries, and how his friend Hillary was treated?
31 - bliffle
So does this end the constant charges of a leftist press?
32 - Cannonshop
Nah, it just means that maybe George Stephanopolous doesn't like Obama and wants to see him squirm. Personalities, y'know-George was a Clinton man wayyy back.
33 - Pablo
Stephanopolous is also a member of the CFR and Bilerberg Group.
34 - Cannonshop
Pablo, I'm sure if we look around, we can find someone alleging that Obama's a member of the CFR and Bilderbergers too. It means NOTHING (except,maybe that my hypothesis as to why Conspiracies aren't all that powerful holds true, and said groups are prone to infighting that cripples their effectiveness enough to make them non-issues).
35 - Dave Nalle
Pablo, all sorts of people are members of the CFR. I know members (sadly one just died) and they are perfectly normal and reasonable people of a variety of political persuasions.
As for Stephie, I think he may have decided he ought to take his job seriously because no one is hiring him on to work for the government again any time soon.
Tom Brokaw actually gave Biden a similar reaming the other day on Meet the Press. It was very much the same format - ask the guest a question, then politely point out that he's lying. Then do it again and again and again.
I think it may be kind of like picking a scab and the interviewers just get frustrated when they have these Dems on who just spout lie after lie after lie and they aren't even good lies, just predictable and easily disproven ones. If guys like Brokaw and Stephie are liberals it must really piss them off to see people like Obama and Biden just sitting there spouting utter crap and thinking they can get away with it. It's probably more irritating to them than it would be to a conservative. Hell, it's disrespectful to the interviewer to think you can get away with stuff like that.
Dave
36 - Dr Dreadful
Nice logical (?!) gymnastics, Dave. Of course it could just be that the MSM doesn't have that liberal bias after all.
Truth is, you don't have the first clue what Brokaw and Stephanopoulos were thinking.
37 - Cannonshop
Both Hypotheses are equally true until disproved, Doc. Since we lack the ability to read their minds, however, it becomes a matter of examination and extrapolation from external data-that is, since we can't read George or Tom's minds, we have to look at their histories in similar conditions, noted historical tendencies, and model their behaviour from that...
the result should be about as accurate as a Mann Hockeystick graph showing climate projections on the global scale, with the slight difference that when both sides go all irrational defending their positions, there won't be an Al Gore saying all debate is over and there is a global consensus.
38 - Catey
The UFO's are coming.
39 - Dave Nalle
The Truth, Dr. D., is that we can see more than one sort of behavior from the media. First, you see the kind of fawning, sycophanitc behavior you saw at the democratic convention followerd by the same people taking a hardline even hostile attitude at the republican convention, making it look very obvious that those reporters are grossly biased to the left.
But then you have more senior journalists on more serious shows, apparently bending over backwards to be fair in compensation.
The fact that more serious journalists like Brokaw try very hard not to show bias to the point where they may even overcompensate suggests that they are aware that the former weathergirls doing on the spot interviews with a mike in their hands are embarassingly biased.
Dave
40 - Heloise
Not "true dat" I'm not surprised at this cheap shot. But just read an article that shows this to be an electoral college race that will be won state by state.
Your racism and hatred of "the other" is showing Dave. Because everyone misses the obvious: is it a crime to be a muslim or a lack of patriotism somehow?
Bobby Jindal, don't hear you talking about him should be accused of being a Hindu since his parents were born in India and he in the USA. Bobby says he is a Christian of one stripe or another. No one is questioning that.
He also changed his name and anglicized it. You are pushing the old religious test button with the right hand and playing the race card with the other one. You are spouting that there exists a "religious test" for office, while there is NONE for high office.
Dave, your naivete is showing buddy.
Heloise
41 - Dave Nalle
Wow, Heloise. Don't bother to read the article or anything. If you HAD bothered to read it you'd have seen that I did not in fact, make the racial/religious argument which others are making over this little slip of the tongue. I was trying to avoid the obvious and make a more interesting point, but I guess you'd rather follow the Obama campaign into the politics of race.
As for Jindal, I'm not a big fan. I'd probably like him more if he were a muslim or hindu (religiously).
Dave
42 - Condor
Obama slips up quite a bit. The humorists will have fun with this. Becuase to the American id, Presidents [and Vice Presidents] have become, as Bachevich puts it:
"the occupant of the White House has become a combination of demigod, father figure and, inevitably, the betrayer of inflated hopes. Pope. Pop star. Scold. Scapegoat. Crisis manager. Commander in Chief. Agenda settler. Moral philosopher. Interpreter of the nation's charisma. Object of veneration. And the butt of jokes. All rolled into one."
Potatoe indeed.
43 - Heloise
I did read the article Dave, first, yes I did. I notice you were POLITE. Okay?
Helloise
44 - Heloise
Dave writes: "The Christian church he attended for years is as bad as anything you'll find in Islam, and if the public will give him a pass on that, they're probably willing to overlook anything."
Hmmm, I rest my case.
Heloise
45 - troll
Gergen (CNN) just mentioned something about a possible per diem issue for Palin - 300ish nights charged for staying in her home
Dave should oughtta get after debunking ASAP
46 - troll
on the other hand I can't imagine that Obama didn't lose a bunch of votes by calling Palin a pig
what an idiot
47 - Baritone
Palin DID pay herself a per deim for staying at her own home.
Of course we already know the following: She DID put the governor's jet on ebay, but it didn't sell. It was later sold through a broker who sold it for approximately 500K less than its book value.
Sarah was FOR the "bridge to nowhere" and did not change her stance until AFTER Congress had cancelled their approval for the project. However, Tundra Barbie did NOT return the "earmarked" money, but rather applied it to other state projects. One of those "projects" was for the completion of a road that leads up to the point where the "bridge to nowhere" was to begin.
Sorry for the digression. Now you can all get back to absorbing Dave's insightful Freudian profile of Senator Obama and his deepmost fears. That Psych 101 class wasn't a complete waste after all.
B
48 - Jordan Richardson
on the other hand I can't imagine that Obama didn't lose a bunch of votes by calling Palin a pig
Yeah, and McCain claimed Obama supported sex ed. for kindergarten kids. For the record, Obama never specifically called Palin a pig, but rather said the following:
"You can put lipstick on a pig but it’s still a pig."
He also said:
"You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change. It's still gonna stink."
So I suppose Barack also called her a fish?
49 - troll
the fish was ol' Mac....duh
50 - Clavos
Now that the Hoosier oracle has bestowed "Tundra Barbie" on us, I'd like to return the favor.
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the next Senator from Illinois, Kahuna Ken!
Of course we already know the following: She DID put the governor's jet on ebay, but it didn't sell. It was later sold through a broker who sold it for approximately 500K less than its book value.
Untrue on two counts: It wasn't sold through a broker, but directly to the buyer, and the price was about $300,000 less than a broker asking price. Items like jets and yachts never sell for asking price, so the difference would include the discount as well as broker's (had their been one) commission.
According to the Chicago Tribune:
Instead, the 23-year-old 10-seat Westwind II was sold in August 2007 for $2.1 million to a Valdez, Alaska, entrepreneur; that's about $300,000 less than a broker's asking price, according to news accounts.
51 - Dave Nalle
I heard about the per diem issue earlier today. I don't have all the details yet, but as I understand it her overall per diem and travel expenses were 80% less per anum than her predecessor, according to research by Byron York. Of course, getting rid of the plane is part of that. As for the per diem business, the WaPo article doesn't allege that she broke any rules by taking the per diem, just that it looks funny. I guess there's some justification for a per diem if you're using a house you kept but no longer need since you're living in the governor's mansion.
Dave
52 - troll
...Jordan - the point is it doesn't matter what Obama meant
it was stupid following Palin's lipstick reference
53 - Jordan Richardson
Politics is a stupid game and attacks fly in both directions.
Again, I'd question whether a "pig with lipstick" allusion is worse than claiming, via campaign attack ad, that Obama sponsored sex ed. for kindergarten kids when in fact it was a bill to help protect kids from sexual predators.
As Bill Burton said:
"It is shameful and downright perverse for the McCain campaign to use a bill that was written to protect young children from sexual predators as a recycled and discredited political attack against a father of two young girls -- a position that his friend Mitt Romney also holds. Last week, John McCain told Time magazine he couldn’t define what honor was. Now we know why."
54 - troll
- 'worse' has nothing to do with it
think traction and colo(u)r
55 - Jordan Richardson
No. You claimed Obama was an "idiot" for the pig remark. If Obama's an idiot, McCain is an idiot too. They either both are or they both aren't.
Anyway, the bullshit's getting pretty thick in here as the various spin machines rev up to pull the people away from any real progress.
As a parting shot to the politics section here at BC, I'll leave a little "nugget" as to how we Canucks have done things thus far.
56 - Clavos
From the WaPo story on the Palin expense account non-story:
57 - troll
I agree completely that McCain is an idiot too though I'd bet that his add didn't capture as many imaginations as Obama's comment
58 - Baritone
I just watched reruns of both Tom Brokaw's "Meet The Press" interview of Joe Biden and George Stephanopoulos' Obama interview.
Dave must have been watching the interviews in his dreams.
First as regards the "slip" Dave states that Obama doesn't acknowledge Stephanopoulos' correction when in fact, he does. Obama clarifies the statement noting that it concerned McCain's never having referenced Obama as being a muslim. Stephanopoulos spoke over it, but it was there.
As to the interviews themselves? Yes, both Brokaw and Stephanopoulos took Biden and Obama respectfully to task, but NEVER ONCE - NOT ONCE Dave, did either of them "point out" lies. In their role as devil's advocate, they noted the original positions and perceptions regarding whatever issue was at hand, and in each case, the candidates aptly answered them. Your entire characterization of the interviews and your fantasy regarding the supposed dismay that you assumed both Brokaw and Stephanopoulos were feeling is totally bogus. Just as with your lame psuedo psychobabble regarding the "slip" all you are doing is projecting your own bias and your own feelings onto others.
I think we should all take a hard look at Dave to determine if he doesn't have, perhaps some "mother" issues, or if he understands that sometimes, it's just a cigar.
B
59 - Silas Kain
Sorry, don't watch MtP any longer since Russert died. Bottom line he was born of a Christian mother and a Muslim father. Is that not correct? So, regardless of which religion is his catch of the day he remains a man with Muslim roots. And there's nothing wrong with that.
60 - Dave Nalle
Bias much, Baritone? When someone says something and the person he's talking to then comes back with a correction which shows that the original statement was incorrect, you can call it whatever you want, but it's reasonable to say that the person lied and was then exposed as having lied when the questioner provides the true answer.
As for dismay, you may look at things differently, but what I read from Stephonopolous' tone of voice and mannerisms was disappointment that Obama was giving such poor answers to relatively predictable questions. I agree that Brokaw is harder to read. He always seems sort of exasperated.
And here I thought I'd get some credit for not going for the glaringly obvious take on Obama's slip.
Dave
61 - Jet
I'll add this little piece of script so everyone will stop feeling so "self centered" It looks like all the comments are centered because of a loose piece of instruction in the u-tube in the article.
Always happy to do my part...
62 - Jet
By the way if the interview was closed captioned, a tweak of any modern tv should reveal one way or the other just by reading the captions...
wouldn't it.
Oh I sure Dave checked that first, after all' Daves a very thorough man.
63 - Jet
Dave after looking over your articles and posts for the last week, you should be that last person accusing anyone of bias.
Let he who is without sin cast the last stone?
64 - Baritone
But that characterization is totally and unequivocally false. Cite one example Dave. Give me one. What you are saying NEVER occured during either interview. I've watched both of the interviews twice. This is something that your mind, perhaps independent from your consciousness, made up out of whole cloth.
"And here I thought I'd get some credit for not going for the glaringly obvious take on Obama's slip."
There you go again Mr. Nalle. There is absolutely nothing "glaringly obvious" about "Obama's slip."
It's just that kind of low level discourse to which you are becoming more and more apt to resort: Innuendo. It's all a load of crap, and you know it. I can envision you with a small, but nevertheless, shit eating grin on your face as you plunk this garbage out. Your offerings were far more tolerable when you were spouting off numbers from this or that data source.
Now that you have adopted the "Rovian" mantle of character assassination, mis-direction and innuendo, your credibility suffers in kind. Perhaps you have grown a "radio head," apparently, a large one.
B
65 - Jet
By the way that wasn't a misquote; the last one to throw a stone makes sure the victim's dead...
66 - Jet
Give him a little credit Baritone, at least he's not on the BC forum irresponsibly spreading bullshit about Obama wanting to teach kindergarden kids sex education like RJ is.
67 - Pablo
Post 64 Baritone in response to Nalle:
"It's just that kind of low level discourse to which you are becoming more and more apt to resort: Innuendo. It's all a load of crap, and you know it. I can envision you with a small, but nevertheless, shit eating grin on your face as you plunk this garbage out. Your offerings were far more tolerable when you were spouting off numbers from this or that data source.
Now that you have adopted the "Rovian" mantle of character assassination, mis-direction and innuendo, your credibility suffers in kind. Perhaps you have grown a "radio head," apparently, a large one."
I just want to say that I enjoyed that post very much. :)
68 - Dave Nalle
Baritone, I have to assume there's just something fundamentally wrong with your perceptual skills.
First off, anyone with half a lick of sense knows that the obvious take on this incident is that Obama secretly IS a muslim and made a slip and revealed it. It may be a stupid take on it, but go check out some right-wing blogs.
Now, I happen to have kept the Stephanopolis interview. Here is a quote to satisfy your request from one lie earlier in the interview that really stood out:
Obama: "What I've said is let's provide tax cuts to 95% of the American people..."
George: "Actually the Tax policy Institute says it's 81% of American people..."
So there's an example.
And I will give you this, most of the lies Obama put out there were given a pass by Stephanopolous. He was much gentler on him than I remember. There are some real whoppers early in the interview which he doesn't even try to counter.
But I have to agree that Obama spins a fine quality line of bullshit and I can understand why it fools those who are inclined not to question.
Dave
69 - Joanne Huspek
Ruvy: As to Obama, you only know what you believe. Obama is a slippery snake, just like the Clintons are.
And too, the other side.
I don't know if Obama is or isn't a Muslim. That doesn't matter so much to me as being screwed in the end, no matter who is in place.
No matter what the candidates think or do or go to church, no matter what their past, no matter who gets elected, there's a much bigger picture of the people who are in control.
None of them is us.
70 - Clavos
Point bears repeating:
No matter what the candidates think or do or go to church, no matter what their past, no matter who gets elected, there's a much bigger picture of the people who are in control.
None of them is us.
71 - Baritone
Joanne & Clav,
And whose fault is that?
B
72 - Clavos
Why, the CFR and the Bilderbergers' of course, B-tone.
Don't you follow these threads at all?
73 - Baritone
Dave,
"First off, anyone with half a lick of sense knows that the obvious take on this incident is that Obama secretly IS a muslim and made a slip and revealed it."
That is an example of your modus operandi. Innuendo.
The "95%/81%" is the best you've got? You chose not to include Stephanopoulos' next line wherein he states that the figures show that the Tax Policy Institute says that his tax cuts would affect 95% of married couples. At best, or worst, a 14% discrepancy. I'm sure that that 14% could be bandied about and be rendered wider or narrower depending upon whose arguments or figures one chooses to believe. By, that IS a whopping lie! Man, what a son of a bitch Obama is!
AND - There you go again.
"And I will give you this, most of the lies Obama put out there were given a pass by Stephanopolous (sic). He was much gentler on him than I remember. There are some real whoppers early in the interview which he doesn't even try to counter."
Innuendo, with nothing to back it up. You write this stuff in the assumption that most readers will NOT check out your statements, but rather just take them on face value. I guess you just can't help yourself.
B
74 - bliffle
Dave spins his usual BS innuendos in #68:
First off, anyone with half a lick of sense knows that the obvious take on this incident is that Obama secretly IS a muslim and made a slip and revealed it.
Do you 'have a lick of sense' , Dave? Then it is fair to assume that you think Obama is a secret muslim?
What say, you, Dave? Is that what YOU believe?
Now, I happen to have kept the Stephanopolis interview. Here is a quote to satisfy your request from one lie earlier in the interview that really stood out:
Obama: "What I've said is let's provide tax cuts to 95% of the American people..."
George: "Actually the Tax policy Institute says it's 81% of American people..."
So there's an example.
You did check this out, Dave, didn't you? You did check with the "Tax Policy Institute", didn't you, Dave? I'd love to see your citation.
I have to agree that Dave spins a fine quality line of bullshit and I can understand why it fools those who are inclined not to question.
Are there any of you out there in BC land who are inclined not to question?
75 - bliffle
Dave is wrong: it's not a lie but a difference of opinion:
Now, I happen to have kept the Stephanopolis interview. Here is a quote to satisfy your request from one lie earlier in the interview that really stood out:
Obama: "What I've said is let's provide tax cuts to 95% of the American people..."
George: "Actually the Tax policy Institute says it's 81% of American people..."
Is Stephanopolis saying that Obama ACTUALLY said 81% and has changed that to 95%? I don't think so, do you Dave?
Or was Stephanopolis saying that the Tax policy Institute claimed that the tax plan would only help 81%, not 95%? This seems more reasonable, doesn't it Dave?
So Stephanopolis is simply citing an outfit that has A DIFFERENT OPINION about how many will be covered, isn't he, Dave?
It isn't a lie, is it Dave?
In any case, an honest reading of Obamas comment would take it as a goal. You can give Obamas comment an honest reading, can't you Dave? Or can you?
So let's investigate Stephanopolis' difference of opinion by researching his claim.
You did this Dave, didn't you? just as any responsible reporter would? You checked this out with the "Tax Policy institute", didn't you?
I'd be interested in your citation from the "Tax Policy Institute", since my own research through Google found NO "Tax Policy Institute", per se, but I did find an "American Tax Policy Institute", but, alas, they had no report on the Obama tax plan!
Perhaps Stephanopolis 'misspoke' himself. Is that a terrible crime, Dave? Should we devote an entire article to Stephanopolis' slip? Is it worth dozens of comments and thousands of words? Should we examine Stephanopolis' ulterior motives, his hidden agendas, his shameful past? Do you think this shows a deep flaw in Stephanopolis' character? Should we hound him out of the news business?
Maybe Stephanopolis just made an ordinary slip of the tongue. Maybe he was just careless. Maybe an employee made the mistake. But can we conclude that Stephanopolis is not as good as, say, Tim Russert? I think so. Can we take a cautious attitude towards things that Stepanopolis might say in the future? I think so. What do you think, Dave?
Maybe Stephanopolis MEANT to say the "Tax Policy Center", because the TPC does have some reports and studies on the candidates tax plans. You can see one here:
TPC study
I looked through it and couldn't find anything like what Stephanopolis claimed. But maybe it's somewhere else.
I'd be interested in what your research revealed, Dave. You did research Stephanopolis' claim, didn't you, Dave?
Or did you just shoot off your mouth because you figured you had an Obama "gotcha" and that was enough for you?