...Obama's main message was the government's duty to address what he said are moral problems - such as war, poverty, joblessness, homelessness, violent streets, and crumbling schools - and to employ religious institutions to do it."As long as we're not doing everything in our individual and collective power to solve the challenges we face, the conscience of our nation cannot rest," he said.
Obama referred repeatedly to his religious faith in terms that would be familiar to white evangelicals as well as his black audience. He has highlighted faith over the past week as he campaigned in one-time GOP strongholds and talked more about God, country, and service ...
The last time I heard or read quotes like this was just after George W. Bush declared that God had interceded to make him President of the United States. Bush has since been acting as though he were firmly convinced that once he'd gained the highest office in our country, his delusion had somehow extended itself even further into believing that the American Voter had also elected him “Pope and Chief” policy maker of the American Evangelical Christian Church.
With Obama's recent declaration of support for Bush’s Faith Based Initiatives giving federal taxpayer's money to religious institutions, it is both troubling and a little frightening that Obama is beginning to sound more and more like Bush in many ways... especially since he disavowed his own long-time religious mentors, and then his own church, just recently and more than once, in the name of political expediency.
In addition to his recent backpedaling on ending the war in Iraq, as a gay Democrat, I'm more than a little concerned and I'm frankly finding my political convictions wavering...
It appears that Republican John McCain’s presidential campaign staff need not endeavor to find a way to “divide and conquer” the Democratic Party. Obama seems to have figured out a way to do that for them.
It has been reported that many Democratic supporters of Senator Hillary Clinton would rather not vote at all, than to vote for Obama. I personally wonder if it's not too late to draft her at the convention, as Obama's unguarded remarks may split the Democratic vote more than it already is.
But of course, that's only my opinion...
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Dan Miller
Dan
2 - Jet in Columbus
This has been a very troubling time for me Dan. I never thought I'd ever be an "undecided" voter, and in fact doubted if they ever existed.
I know one thing-I'm not voting for McCain. Now I'm wondering if I can in good conscience vote for Obama.
What's worse is I'm well aware that not voting for him only helps McCain.
3 - Dan Miller
Jet,
I know what you mean. My earlier focus had been on the Obama-Clinton contest. For various reasons, I decided that I could under no circumstances vote for Senator Clinton and that I would vote against her.
Now my focus is on the McCain-Obama contest, and I am still trying to make up my mind. There are things which I like, and things which I dislike, about both of them. I am "tilting" toward McCain, but that's it.
Dan
4 - Dave Nalle
Wow. Maybe Obama can get the religious right to switch back to the Democratic Party and the GOP can be set free
Dave
5 - Dan Miller
Dave,
Amen!
Dan
6 - Jet in Columbus
Dave, my only hope is that they are orphaned and are thrust upon the Libertarian Party-who deserves them...
(:)
7 - Jet in Columbus
The religious right may be the boil on both political Party's asses, but they have one undeniable strength-unfortunately.
They are the only reliable voting block in America. Like sheep or lemmings, they vote as their respective TV minister orders them to. On top of that, if they're reluctant, like fourth-graders, they're picked up by the church school busses and driven to the poling places, and handed a "voter's guide" to take with them into the booths.
As in my precinct here in downtown Columbus, our previous GOP secretary of state left us a goodbye present... our voting place has been moved from a neutral location to a Baptish church.
It is a damning thing, that the majority of Americans aren't as committed.
8 - Cannonshop
The problem really is that you have no way of knowing if he's sincere, or just playing politics-he's got ZERO background record, so what he says to day may or may not be what he thinks...today, but you've no way of knowing if that's what he'll be thinking to-morrow.
of all the forces on "the right", the Religious Fundies are the most irrational, and at the same time, most highly organized, they're also not happy with the GOP's Choice of McCain. Strategically, they're a good target for a Democrat with a proven record of church-attendance (or would be if Obama hadn't been attending Rev. Wright's church.) I could see a Democratic strategist looking at them as a good target for a move like this, since it would be a direct strike at what is often percieved as the Republican Base, and Obama's whole campaign message (and lack of serious scandals at this point) is practically designed as an ad to appeal to Christians whom are Christian mainly because they feel guilty or want to feel superior to others.
So, it COULD just be a crass political move. The problem is, distinguishing it as such, rather than a sincere gesture... (i.e. the Democratic Party's not going to split over this even a little bit, methinks.)
9 - Jet in Columbus
Cannon, I'm sure you've read some of my posts here, so you know how commited I am... If I'm wavering what about the less informed?
As for the Fundies, they've got to learn sooner or later that backing a president that promises them their agenda is inneffective at best.
Look at how Carter, Reagan and both Bushes succeeded at banning abortion, even with a congress of the same party like W had.
Like it or not, the vast majority (though they'd never admit it to pollsters) just don't hold religious beliefs that important in their lives.
Unfortunately the Christian cause has recruited millions of people to give up their grocery money to fund fat-cat preachers who live in multi-million dollar mansions and have "churches" the size of football stadiums. Preachers whose only goal in life is to grab as much power and money that they can, and the rest of us be damned.
10 - bliffle
For many years I've assumed that any politician who proclaims his faith in God and Religion is simply a faker and he is pandering for easy votes.
If I ever began to think that one was serious I would be truly frightened.
Fortunately, though GWB made a lot of noise about God and Virtue his actions have proven him to be A Sinner like the rest of us. In fact, one could easily argue that he has embraced Sin with even more enthusiasm and lack of shame than the rest of us.
Phew! Dodged a bullet there!
11 - Lee Richards
Obama is currently practicing what he learned from Chicago politics:hope, change and lofty ideals may be great longterm goals(or not)but first you've got to get elected. So, you've got to COUNT the voters who are or may be persuaded to be on your side.
He's pragmatically counting votes now, and seeking them from every side, source and region. It's smart politics.
By appealing to those who want faith to support their vote, he's unlikely to lose a significant number of his true-believers on the left, and he has a good chance of winning over a substantial number of those in the middle who might be worried that an Obama presidency could be too much of a radical domestic change. And it gives him a better chance at some of those right-of- center voters who are looking for a rationale to abandon McCain, and/or punish the GOP, anyway.
It's not on a par with Kennedy's "Catholic" speech to the Baptists, but it's Obama's version and not a bad tactic.
12 - Jet in Columbus
Thanks Blif, I am really convinced that Bush hopes that the Isrealis will attack Iran, so that he can claim the holy war of the book of Revelations, and he can glide to heaven as the leader of the righteous people.
My fear is that if he can't do it himself, he'll somehow nudge Isreal into doing his work for him and claim emergency presidential powers and install himself for a third unconstitutional term.
13 - Jet in Columbus
Lee the problem is with empty promises of anything to get elected and usless words.
Blacks could desert him in droves if he alienates them too much, not wanting an inexperienced and ineffective man to be first on the job that might screw up, causing white bigots to point at him and say that he's the reason not to ever elect another black man again to the office of President of the United States.
We've got very tough economic times ahead and Obama might not be experienced enough to handle the problem, or bring with him good advisors instead of religious political flunkies.
14 - Condor
I could tell a joke about now... but I won't.
Ah what the heck....
An atheist died and subsequently was laying in a casket at his funeral. The mourners filed by, placing little trinkets or speaking encouraging words to the cadaver. His oldest sister came up to the casket during the time set aside for familty viewing and being the good baptist that she was, leaned down close to the body and said... "look at you Davy, all dressed up with no where to go."
I'm gone.
15 - Jet in Columbus
Okaaaaaaay....... and this relates to the article how? :)
16 - Baritone
Condor,
Of course, that is true of all of us. None of us are going anywhere but 6 feet under or into a tastefully designed urn.
When you're dead, you're dead.
B-tone
17 - Baritone
Jet,
I know what you are saying and feeling. Obama has made a number of moves over the last couple of weeks that are at best, unsettling.
I hope, as suggested above, that these are more than anything else pragmatic moves to garner votes from a broader spectrum of the electorate. Pretty much all of the moves are centrist in nature.
I am not a fan of so called "faith based initiatives." I am not happy about the Supreme Court's decision regarding guns, and I do not favor the death penalty. Obama has come down on what I believe are the wrong sides of all these issues. It is troubling.
I assume that these things are not being done willy-nilly. I have to assume that Obama's strategists are attempting to plot his course for the next 4 months to, as I noted above, broaden his appeal and succeed in snatching up a larger portion of the undecided moderate/independent vote.
Obviously, it could backfire by turning off less moderate liberals who have, thus far been backing him with enthusiasm. I think Obama is a very smart man. I hope he and his staff don't overcalculate, get too clever and wind up blowing this election which they should win going away.
Frankly, just the thought of a McCain presidency makes me queazy. I was at one time ambivalent about the man, but over the past few months I have come to dislike him as a man and certainly am not aligned with him politically. I see him as somewhat of a Bush clone and as a mean spirited vindictive old fart.
I find it somewhat humorous that a number of commenters here were, a few months ago, staunchly against McCain citing that he was far too liberal for their tastes. Now, it appears that he's their guy, by god!
B-tone
18 - Jet in Columbus
Thanks Mr. B. As for the supreme court, Bush has done his damage, and I fear it will be long lasting damage taking decades to repair-at least until his appointees retire.
My worry is that the economy is souring, but that big business and big Oil will do all they can to prop it up until after the election, all the while raking in more and more on fat-but-vague multimillion dollar defence contracts and raking in huge oil profits... while they can.
After the election, they're banking on Obama winning so they can pull the carpet right out from under the American People and laugh all the way to the bank, knowing Obama will get the blame.
I've struggled with Obama being my "second choice" and over the last month or so, I've tried to make piece with it and balance my intellectual scales, but damn it, he's sounding more and more like Bush, even to the point of saying what he thinks his current audience wants to hear.
I see a bumper sticker reading DON'T BLAME ME I VOTED FOR HILLARY!
I'm deeply afraid for this country, because any way you look at this you lose no matter whether McCain gives us four more years, probably bringing all of Bush's advisors into his cabinet-and die of old age in office leaving a probable vice president chosen by the religious right to balance the ticket, or Obama wins with not enough experience to pick the right cabinet advisors, and caving to the wishes of his financial backers' demands as to personel...
It's a problem I'll probably struggle right up to the election damned if I do and damned if I don't...
19 - Dan Miller
Baritone,
You characterize Senator McCain as a mean spirited vindictive old fart. I would have you know, Sir, that we mean spirited vindictive old farts are a protected class and that, as such, we resent the slur. For shame! Sensitivity training is the only solution to your problem. Perhaps in the new golden age about to dawn, it will be mandatory.
Merely as an interim solution, until you find time to undergo such training I offer, as an unwarranted gesture of kindness, a rephrasing along the following lines "as a sensitivity challenged senior citizen." Not great, but it's the best I could come up on the spur of the moment and in my white hot anger over your scurrilous remark.
Dan
20 - Jet in Columbus
My God Dan, the spin on that was so fierce I nearly lost my balance reading it...
21 - Baritone
Dan,
I am on the cusp of old fartdom myself with 62 years under my rather too large belt. I think I've earned enough stripes to use the "old fart" moniker.
In fact, I see myself as leading the charge of Boomers into the realm of old fartdom come hell or high... hey, speaking of "high", that sounds pretty good about now.
B-tone
22 - Gary
I disagree with Obama on guns and on the death penalty, but these more conservative stands are congruent with things he said as a state legislator, before anyone dreamed he'd run for president. And he got his start as a community organizer for a Catholic social agency, so his background would make him sympathetic with government partnering with religious organizations that attack poverty and addiction. He is
not the ultra-liberal of Republican myth. But for those of us who are more liberal than he is, the alternative is McCain, Bush's third term. I don't know that the country can survive more Republican mismanagement. Better Obama, the moderate liberal, than McCain, a hundred years in Iraq, and more tax cuts for the wealthy. Work for Obama, fight for Obama, give to Obama, not because he is perfect, but because the alternative is too horrible to contemplate.
23 - Clavos
Not surprisingly, Dan, B-tone is a boomer...
24 - Jet in Columbus
I know it was a long time ago Mr. B. but didn't your mother teach you to share with your little friends?
25 - Jet in Columbus
Gary, I have only one problem with Obama, but it's a big one; Washington is a town that takes some getting used to, and even more to know the difference between a dolphin's fin and a shark's fin when they're both swimming towards you.
I love a candidate with fresh ideas, but he also needs the experience to set them in motion using the powers that be and the capital's secret tunnels of love and politics.