Obama may be a citizen of the world, but is he a natural-born American citizen eligible to become president?
On August 21, 2008, Philip J. Berg, former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania, filed a lawsuit against presidential candidate Barack Obama. In the lawsuit Berg challenges Obama's claims to natural-born citizenship, raising questions about the authenticity of his birth certificate which has not been produced in original form and asking about his possible dual citizenship. According to Article II, Section 1 of the United States Constitution, "No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President."…
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— go to most recent comments76 - Lumpy
as I see it the issue here is not whether Barry Sotero is a muslim or a kenyan or whatever, but why he has gone to such lengths to cover up and hide the facts of his background.
77 - Dr Dreadful
Lumpy, I hope you have reliable documentation of your claim that Obama has covered up his background.
78 - moon
Lisa,
What you think and what you HOPE to be the case apparently are one and the same.
Dream on.
79 - El Bicho
Doc, do you also hope unicorns are real?
80 - Dr Dreadful
No, but Lumpy does, and he's on Google right now desperately searching for evidence that Obama has one as a pet and is trying to keep it on the down-low.
81 - AXJ of Kenya
Apparently AXJ of Kenya has contacted Hospital and Certificate of Live Birth has been posted. Good job!
82 - moon
Right.
How much are you being paid to troll these internet blogsites?
I am sure someone would pay you more just to get rid of you.
You are a nuisance.
83 - Lisa Solod Warren
Dear Moon (because apparently you are back, for whatever reason). Please provide proof that absentee ballots are thrown in the trash.
Thanks, Lisa.
84 - Clavos
But, but, but, Lisa:
She DID provide proof (at least in her estimation); here it is:
I researched this issue very thoroughly in 2004.
And bullshit is not part of my stock in trade.
What more do you need?
85 - moon
Lisa, I don't know why you are always on the rag when I post here.
But, since I am such a sport, here goes:
I bothered to do the research in 2004 when several friends sent in absentee ballots in Washington State. They were not counted. I was in Seattle for the month around election time, and I did the research because there were reports of problems registering and folks being erased from rolls in many states across the US.
But don't take my word for it, Lisa and Clavos.
This is what the Wall Street Journal's archives have to say about absentee ballots in Washington State:
"Washington state has supplanted Florida as the leading example of the need for election reform. The Evergreen State's voting system is so sloppy that you can't tell where incompetence ends and actual fraud might begin. Three Washington counties just discovered 110 uncounted absentee ballots--including 93 from Seattle's King County--in a governor's race that occurred more than five months ago and was decided by only 129 votes. Officials in Seattle's King County admit they may find yet more ballots before a court hearing next month on whether a new election should be called. Last Friday, they reported finding a 111th ballot.
The infamous 2004 governor's race was finally decided seven weeks after the election, after King County officials found new unsecured ballots on nine separate occasions during two statewide recounts. After the new ballots were counted, Democrat Christine Gregoire won a 129-vote victory out of some three million ballots cast. Even as she was sworn in last January, King County election supervisor Dean Logan admitted it had been "a messy process."
He wasn't kidding. During the two recounts, Mr. Logan's office discovered 566 "erroneously rejected" absentee ballots, plus another 150 uncounted ones that turned up in a warehouse. Evidence surfaced that dead people had "exercised their right to vote"; documentation was presented that 900 felons in King County alone had illegally voted and that military ballots were sent out too late to be counted. A total of 700 provisional ballots had been fed into voting machines before officials had determined their validity. In the four previous November elections, King County workers had never mishandled more than nine provisional ballots in a single election."
You can google 2004 Washington State Governor's Election if you want to read more. The WSJ is not a saint of my devotion, BTW.
That's just one state?
Maybe. Maybe not.
I know for a fact that New Mexico's absentee ballots are not counted, but the dead folks from Rio Arriba County are the most dedicated voters on the planet.
Just two states?
They happen to be 2 of the 3 states that this poster has voted in.
Seems like it's now up to YOU to do a little research on this issue, now, ain't it, kids????
Show me proof that the states I have NOT voted in count their absentee ballots, and maybe some folks will feel more trust in the system.
This poster, for example.
86 - El Bicho
Does anyone have proof that their vote does get counted? After submitting the ballot or pressing the touch screen, I never see mine again.
87 - moon
In order to have reasonable assurances that at least MANY votes are counted, you would need to have an audit and certification system such as the ones used in non-Gringolandia elections.
Even then you could fall through the cracks--or be thrown away like in many places in the US and Mexico.
Of course if the voting machines or ballot boxes are STUFFED, as we say here in Mexico, then even if your vote IS counted it doesn't mean anything because all kinds of bogus votes are counted right along with it.
In Venezuela one touches but also receives a paper ballot receipt that is placed in the box. That way an audit can be done--and IS done. As a practising accountant for many years I can tell you that double entry was invented because it's the only system that can be audited and certified.
The problem in the US is that gringos believe that they are above the law--from the current occupant of the Oval Office to Joe (sic) the Plumber.
You can't be above the law and enforce the law--whether election law or any other--at the same time.
It just don't work that way, kids.
88 - Clavos
Now see, moon, wasn't that easy?
Your #85 is a whole lot more believable (and makes a very different point) from this, which you posted in #43:
Absentee ballots are not counted.
Supposedly the rationale is that most of them arrive too late and the elections have already been called.
They just toss them out.
In fact, Cannonshop (who lives in the SEA area) has posted similar comments about voting in Washington as well.
I withdraw my call of bullshit, at least where the mishandling of Washington ballots is concerned, though I note that you did not provide proof that they are "thrown away."
As for providing evidence that absentee ballots are counted in other states in order to restore your and others' faith in the system, I respectfully decline.
I think EB's point is valid. None of us have any proof.
89 - Pablo
Land o the free and home of the brave, only problem is most americans are too dumbass stupid to demand that their vote counts. They deserve what they get.
90 - Pablo
Clavos said:
"I withdraw my call of bullshit, at least where the mishandling of Washington ballots is concerned"
I can admire a man who admits his bullshit, too bad its only once in a full moon, if you had to admit the rest of the bs you have spouted the past six months or so, you would be busy indeed Clavy.
91 - Clavos
most americans are too dumbass stupid to demand that their vote counts. They deserve what they get.
Quoted for Truth.
(Not that it would change anything if they did)
92 - Lisa Solod Warren
Moon,
I see you posted your "proof" here. What you proved was election problems. And I agree. What you did not prove was that absentee ballots were or are thrown in the trash. There is voter fraud, there is disenfranchisement, there are illegalities. I do not deny that. What I do deny is that ballots are just tossed for the hell of it, which is, after all, what you claimed.
Watch your words.
And there is no need to be ugly and say what you said.
You, after all, are the one who is always angry and ill-tempered.
No on else's nastiness compares to yours, which is why you are constantly being banned from the list.
93 - CallmeMaddy
Lisa Solod Warren--
Calm down. Moon isn't personally attacking you. Yet, you are personally attacking her AND saying that her nastiness compares to no one. Why are you always attacking others?
Ridiculous that a teenager must tell you this.
Maddy
94 - Lisa Solod Warren
Darlin, you're just on your high horse because I called you out on two of your opinion pieces. I get it. It's okay.
95 - El Bicho
Well I haven't seen you call me out, Lisa, and I think you should give the whining a rest as well. You are over sensitive and no longer garner any sympathy with your continual engaging of Moon. Go read the fables the "The Old Lady and the Snake" and "The Scorpion and the Frog."
96 - Cannonshop
Wow, Moon, I didn't think anyone outside of Washington State was even paying attention to that-certainly the reporters at KING, KIRO, and KSTW (our NBC, CBS, and ABC affiliates at that time) didn't after Queen Christine was inaugurated.
'twas three voting districts in Seattle/king county that had all the "Oops, found another one" votes. In the process of three recounts, Gregoire lost ground everywhere else...except in King County, in three districts. ALL the votes that put her over the top came from those three sites.
Notably, votes filed on behalf of the dead weren't the only fun things-there were also votes cast by teh same person twice-once for each candidate!
The State Republicans have their own blame on this one, though-the dumb bastards wrote their suit in such a way that the State Courts were pretty much Required to throw them out, and Sam Reed (a Republican, though gods only know why), the SecState here, certified the Recount as "Proper" even though there were blatant problems including the missing military votes, the Felons voting, the Dead votes, the Double votes, and the fictional-people-votes. (one notable example being in one area in King County that had around 750 people registered as LIVING IN the elections office! as in that was their mailing address...)
Naturally, having been indoctrinated to vote by my parents (though not "how"-my mom, bless her heart, is a dedicated Democrat), I still do-now, though,it's in hopes that they'll have to use their fictional, dead, and multiple people again and again,until someday (maybe) someone finally has had enough, has a pang of Ethics, and actually does something concrete about it.
(or people get fed up, gather the torches and pitchforks, and enact electoral reform the old-fashioned way.)
THIS year, I fully expect that eleven electoral votes from washington will go to Barack Obama, that Christine will have her second term, and that they'll do their darndest to hide and conceal the Washington Politburo of King County's control over the rest of the state. It will be significantly easier, since there's no pesky Voter logs to go over, and all the ballots in King and Snohomish County are mail-in ballots.
97 - Lisa Solod Warren
El, Who gave you a dog in this hunt?
98 - Cindy D
I think moon is colorful, vibrant, and defiant. She speaks her mind. She challenges the status quo. I like it.
Lisa--I also often admire your posts and think of you as someone who speaks her mind. There is a difference in style. There's enough room for differences. In all fairness, it was a rough first meeting with moon, I recall.
But, you called Maddy "Darlin". Intentionally being condescending to a teen. Why?
99 - Lisa Solod Warren
Because.Cindy. she has admitted she hates to read and obviously did not read all the posts on both the opinion pieces, but merely jumped in because she remains angry at me because I took her to task on two of her opinion pieces where she clearly did not do her homework. She jumped in to defend a woman who is clearly capable of defending her own self just to be what she thought was clever.
And, Cindy, I guess I am old fashioned enough to think that teens need to give us oldsters some respect, first, which she never seemed to learn. She has a tendency to be dismissive and flippant, something I never allow from my own teenaged daughter. Her own comment about "ridiculous that a teenager should have to tell you this" deserved much more than a "darlin'" in my opinion. I was being kind.
100 - Dan(Miller)
I have a modest proposal:
In view of all the fun being had here and on other threads, e.g., this one, perhaps we could have a virtual pie throwing contest. The pies could bear cute names for their intended recipients, and the recipients could counter someway or other. I haven't quite figured out the details yet, but perhaps some of the BC folks over in the Games section could lend a hand.
To ensure kindness to the elderly, we should get to specify what type of pie we like. My preference is blueberry, but I like apple as well.
Dan(Miller)
101 - Cindy D
I want a chocolate mousse cake. A really good one, no typical commercial junk.
But, if I have to choose a pie, it would have to be a high quality chocolate cream. With fresh whipped cream please. Not that stuff from a can or god forbid coolwhip.
102 - moon
Dan,
Sweet idea, but I wouldn't be able to participate as pie as one knows it in the US does not exist here in Mexico. I had to go all the way to a joint in the middle of nowhere outside of Tucson, AZ called, quaintly, "Coyote Pause" to get a decent piece of lemon meringue pie on October 1st. It was the LAST piece, too--so the universe was beaming at me that morning.
(BEST restaurant pie for breakfast spot is also in Arizona: in Douglas--an otherwise dismal hole best known for its proximity to one of the planet's biggest openpit copper mines.)
And no, I don't make pies--despite spending my early childhood making pie cookies at the elbow of my grandmother Aimee, a world-class pie maker (as well as the holder of hundreds of prizes for dahlias and several national records for indoor and outdoor target shooting), I can't make a piecrust to get out of jail.
However, as I am probably older than anyone else regularly posting here--will be 64 if I make it to November 28th--I suggest that Lisa follow her own spinsterly-presented advice and pay respect to her olders--especially since I was probably receiving my PhD before she was even born (well, maybe I exaggerate, as my daughter was born halfway through my first semester in the UMass program).
BTW: I do not respect whiners of any stripe--no matter whether they are "on the rag", just chewing on one, or--in the case of the editor of this section--takin' one "off the bush".
If clavos was actually apologizing for calling me a liar, I will accept his apology.
Y'all go right ahead and vote, now. Even vote absentee so as to avoid standing in line at your polling place (and finding your name has been erased from the list when you get to the table).
Do it confidently, with your head held high.
After all, in Gringolandia nobody is going to screw with your unalienable rights!
PS to Cannon: I just happen to be from Washington State (BA from UW back when dinosaurs were the smartest species in the classroom), and my daughter is deputy director of a art museum in the Seattle area. I still have a ton of friends there (obviously, few are gringos--mostly other Native Americans and Filipinos). I spent a month in the state in 2004 to observe the election madness and chicanery at close range--and I have to say it did not let my expectations down.
103 - Dan(Miller)
Moon, you claim that I am probably older than anyone else regularly posting here--will be 64 if I make it to November 28th-- Sorry, you lose. I turned 67 last June, and I believe that I am a reasonably regular poster. Psyllium does get some credit, but not all of it.
PS: Can you support your claim with a birth certificate? Suitably embossed?
Dan(Miller)
104 - moon
Just to dispel a certain libel circulating on this thread that this poster hates to read, please be advised ALL, that in addition to working each day on two books of poetry (one in English, the other in Spanish--sorry, Nalle, but my Arabic is not really any great shakes), cooking fabulous meals of Slow Food for our household of 7, piddling in eBay and in the moments best described as The Dead Zone, posting on this and a few other Internet blogsites--including, occasionaly, my OWN site I
read
at
least
one
book
each
day.
(Usually in Spanish, sometimes in another language.)
I think that may show a love of reading that far surpasses that of the libelous rumor-monger(s) here on BC.
Now back to the kitchen--where a huge cazuela of Texas-style chili is awaiting its--yes, organic butternut squash.
In a few hours it will be served with chopped cilantro leaves, grated real Manchego (aka from Spain), avcado slices and handmade corn tortillas on a tablecloth purchased in Manama, Bahrain and hand-confected in Mozambique.
Eat your hearts out.
105 - Clavos
Not an apology, moon; just a partial retraction.
You never proved your assertion that they are willfully thrown away.
106 - moon
Dan,
You got me.
My birth certificate is yes appropriately bearing the seal of some Washington State office.
I go nowhere psyllium. Good SLOW Food (see above), a healthy lifestyle away from the hassles of Gringolandia, a gargantuan passion for living--and the need to be a role model for other folks who have been living with systemic lupus since early childhood or for those who live with chronic illnesses I DON'T have, such as a slew of cancers and MS--keeps me going.
Admittedly, the last ultrasound showed kidneys that appeared to have been largely chewed away by mice--but there's nothing to be done about that....
Cheers!
107 - Dr Dreadful
Dan,
I believe that Bliffle may have more seniority even than you. He has my permission to berate me if (a) he doesn't and/or (b) it's not something he wishes made public.
As for me - I'm a mere stripling, chronologically speaking. I just feel 100 sometimes.
108 - moon
Clavos, if you can show me the difference in OUTCOMES between the scenarios of.
not being counted but thrown under a table or in a drawer, and
just being thrown away
I will give you a round of applause--which is a lot more than your vote will be worth.
(I didn't mention anything about a garbage can, BTW--for you nitpickers who have too much egg on your faces to admit that you were WRONG.)
Bullshit was not, is not and will not be my stock in trade.
I shine conspicuously on this and other sites specifically because of that.
Partial retraction--is that like being a little bit pregnant, or a little bit dead, clavos?
109 - Dan(Miller)
Doc,
I think that we
senilesenior citizens should get a suitable handicap in the virtual pie throwing contest. I trust that my modest proposal for such a contest is being given serious consideration in the upper levels of BC.PS Thanks for deleting my duplicate post.
Dan(Miller)
110 - Clavos
I have no interest in proving (or justifying) anything to you, moon.
I didn't make the false statement.
111 - Christopher Rose
Clavos, will you be tossing your hat into the aged sweepstakes?
I wonder who is our oldest commenter? I was going to say most mature but then realised they were not synonymous. ;-)
Oh, and have you ever seen that hilarious show "Grumpy Old Men" or, for that matter, it's counterpart "Grumpy Old Women"? Classic!
112 - moon
Uh, clavos, indeed you did make the false statement that what I said was BULLSHIT--which I refuted handily, even though I was under NO OBLIGATION to refute anything in response to PERSONAL ATTACKS by you against my integrity.
Now you just made another false statement--you denied making the first one.
You have never been ABLE to justify any of your PERSONAL ATTACKS against me, nor have you ever provided credible PROOF of any of your outrageous claims.
Don't upset the apple cart by providing any now.
This conversation is over.
You lost.
113 - moon
Please no more PERSONAL ATTACKS against me for a FEW HOURS.
I really HAVE to go back to my cooking project for the day.
I am NOT going to eat burned food just because you guys don't like eating crow.
114 - Clavos
No, Chris, Dan has me beat.
And I too seem to recall bliffle being older than Dan; perhaps 70 or 72.
115 - Clavos
Until you can prove it isn't, I am calling the statement you made that:
They just toss them [ballots] out bullshit.
And that's not a personal attack; it's an attack on your statement.
116 - zingzing
i'm just surprised you old foggies know how to use the internets.
i'm only three and a half years old.
[open's up arms, mouth, eyes and self to horrible attack]
mommy.
117 - Clavos
i'm just surprised you old foggies know how to use the internets.
It's fogies, zing; although foggies probably applies to some of them as well.
118 - Cindy D
Dan,
Handicapping in a virtual pie throwing contest?
Just like a senior, always looking for special treatment.
119 - Cindy D
HAHA!
Clav says, "them".
120 - Ruvy
I really HAVE to go back to my cooking project for the day.
Sorry, Marthe, I read about your cooking project; it sounded delicious, and I just had to ask. Is it kosher?
121 - moon
Ruvy:
You should have been able to answer your own question since I posted the ingredients that will be offered as garnish for the chili.
Those who do NOT put the Manchego as a garnish, the chili will be MORE OR LESS kosher (supposedly the animals are killed "cleanly" here in the village, but I wouldn't want to bet much money on that.
One of my 4 kitchen pinches returned from the fields to watch the oven and make sure that the chili is taken out JUST when the squash is tender, as I had forgotten that I have something I am bidding on closing on eBay in a few minutes.
Of course MORE or LESS kosher is about like Clavos' PARTIAL RETRACTION.
Must be stressful to cut off one's nose to spite one's face all the time.
No stress in MY life. Not a whit. Allah be praised.
122 - moon
zingzing,
Since no one else has bothered to mention the OBVIOUS:
Old FOGEYS (the preferred spelling) INVENTED the Internet.
123 - Clavos
HAHA!
Clav says, "them".
You are merciless and unrelenting, Cindy.
I will get even! :>)
124 - Dr Dreadful
Old FOGEYS (the preferred spelling) INVENTED the Internet.
I knew there had to be a deeper reason behind Al Gore's suits and that beard he insisted on growing for a while...
125 - zingzing
clavos: "It's fogies, zing; although foggies probably applies to some of them as well."
you know, i struggled with how to spell that. being that i don't generally have any use for the word, i'm sure you will forgive my spelling error. that said... what's up with you being a grammar/spelling nazi these days? and how does it feel to get it wrong!?
oh, irony. this is irony, right chris? gotta go with the expert on this one.
moon: "Since no one else has bothered to mention the OBVIOUS: Old FOGEYS (the preferred spelling) INVENTED the Internet."
moon makes a joke! in response to another joke! oh, the world is turning! i am... so happy...
it really churns my butter, or whatever you old f-o-g-e-y-s would say.