So Karl Rove suggested that liberals and some Democrats treat the War on Terror as a law enforcement action and they demand a resignation. They equate Dick Durbin's stunt and subsequent non-apology ("I'm sorry if you misunderstood me") and say Karl Rove should go through the wringer.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - John Bambenek
Daryl:
A plain reading of his comments do not yield that interpretation...
His point was clear. That's why Al Jazeera broadcasts his comments. It's clear what message was in his words.
27 - DrPat
"Sedition" is a word being thrown around lately, which we should define:
Hmmm... What about burning one's own flag?
28 - Scott
"When the towers came down liberals were clamoring with "why do they hate us", we shouldn't "rush to war", and heck, some started the outright sedition campaigns we've all come to know and hate"
Senate Joint Resolution 22 stated in part: "[Congress] supports the determination of the President, in close consultation with Congress, to bring to justice and punish the perpetrators of these attacks as well as their sponsors..." -- Passed 100-0 on September 12, 2001
House Joint Resolution 61 -- the House Version of SJ Resolution 22 -- Passed 408-0 on September 13
House Joint Resolution 64 -- "To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States." Passed the House 420-1 on September 14, 2001
Senate Joint Resolution 23 (the Senate version of HJR 64) -- "To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against those responsible for the recent attacks launched against the United States." It was sponsored in the Senate by noted liberal Sen Tom Daschle. And Passed the Senate 98-0. The two Senators who didn't vote were both Republican
Senate Bill 1426 committed $40 billion to the War on Terror -- Passed 96-0 on September 14. Four Senators failed to vote, three of them Republicans, one a Republican turned Independent
The Patriot Act -- Passed the Senate 98-1. Passed the House 357-66
The above was taken from this post. So, where is this liberal opposition after 9/11 of which you and Satan, oops...I mean, Karl Rove speak?
29 - Daryl McCullough
John Banbenek writes: And I think that sentiment is 100% accurate. You DO put them in danger with the incessant (and incorrect) scandals you keep beating on until something sticks.
I don't believe that's true, but that's not the point. Rove implied that it was the motive of liberals to put the troops in danger. That is a lie.
30 - Daryl McCullough
John Banbenek writes: A plain reading of his comments do not yield that interpretation...
Yes, they certainly do. A fair reading of Durbin's words shows that he was calling on the US to live up to its ideals. He was saying "We are not Nazis; we shouldn't behave like this."
31 - Daryl McCullough
One more comment on this issue. John writes: You DO put them [the troops] in danger with the incessant (and incorrect) scandals you keep beating on until something sticks.
What you are basically saying is that criticism of our government endangers our troops. Maybe so. As one politician (I think it was George W. Bush) put it: "Why do they hate us? They hate our freedoms - our freedom of religion, our freedom of speech, our freedom to vote and assemble and disagree with each other."
Freedom to criticize the government is what America is all about. If freedom endangers the troops, well, freedom is what they are fighting for. That's what they are risking their lives for.
32 - John Bambenek
Daryl:
By saying we should live up to our ideals and not be like Nazis implies that the military IS being like Nazis. You have proven my point.
Thanks.
There is a difference between criticism and sedition. Criticism based on reality, fine. But you and your kin have your foots firmly planted on the side of Al Queda. If you think treason is what this country is about, you should have the intellectual honesty to either:
1) emigrate and renounce your citizenship
2) pick up a gun and fight.
33 - Daryl McCullough
John writes: But you and your kin have your foots firmly planted on the side of Al Queda. If you think treason is what this country is about,
What a despicable thing to say. I said that freedom is what this country is all about. I love my country, and I hate Al Qaeda with all my heart. I hate them for their killing of innocents, and I hate them for what they have done to rip this country apart, to divide us.
I think I've been pretty civil in my posts, considering how strongly I disagree with everything you've said. In return, you have called me a traitor. I don't know how to respond civilly to such vicious slander.
34 - Scott
So, let me get this straight John...if every "liberal" and anyone else who does not agree with the wars were to keep their mouth shut about the war on "terror" and the war in Iraq, Al Queda would cease to exist, the war would be "won" (whatever that means at this point in time is unclear) in no time and the insurgency would stop. Is that more or less correct?
35 - Eric Berlin
John - You're guilty of the sins you accuse others of.
By painting all who don't agree with you as traitors who should leave the country and/or "pick up a gun and fight," you're making yourself at least as evil as those you rail against.
36 - John Bambenek
No I'm not, I'm insisting that your continued railing against the United States for crimes that do not exist is why Al Jazeera doesn't have to broadcast propaganda anymore.
Either get your head out of the sand and stop making crap up or stand on the side you apparently want to be on.
It's just that simple.
37 - Eric Berlin
No, it's not that simple, my man.
Chill out.
And who the hell is railing against the United States?
The last person to do so was Karl Rove, when he insulted and angered millions of Americans who he feels would like to coddle the terrorists.
38 - John Bambenek
But that's EXACTLY what the people he cited are trying to do.
That's EXACTLY what the Left wants.
He called a duck a duck, I'm sorry that the truth on your position hurts.
39 - Eric Berlin
What Rove did was lie and distort.
Or LIE and DISTORT, if you like.
And what you're doing is spreading lies and distortion... and casting them about on the magically demonizationable left.
Or LEFT.
Any talk of ducks or other water fowl won't change those facts (FACTS? Sure, why not?).
40 - Eric Berlin
By the way -- Isn't all of this a wonderful (MAGICAL) distraction away from real problems... such as the continuing war in Iraq?
Watch the circus and see all the pretty colors and flashing lights.....
Let's hope people finally wake up to these now familiar tactics.
41 - Victor Plenty
Dissent is treason. War is peace. Freedom is slavery.
If you disagree with Administration policy, remove both hands from the keyboard, place them in plain sight, and wait quietly for representatives from the Ministry of Love to arrive at your location.
No need to unlock the door. They already have all the keys.
42 - Scott
From here.
CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll:
June 16-19, 2005
Do you favor or oppose the U.S. war with Iraq?
Favor: 39%
Oppose: 59%
Unsure: 2%
So, is 59% of the country "railing" against the war in Iraq?
43 - John Bambenek
Let me try to explain again...
There is dissent based on facts, and there is dissent based on fiction. Reasonable people can disagree about what and how we are doing things in Iraq.
However, there are those on the Left who aren't concerned with facts who have spread lies and attack the troops. Durbin called the military a bunch of Nazis, for instance, and that's simply not true and made Al Queda's propagandists have a nice week without work.
There's a difference between dissent and sedition... not all dissent is sedition, but that doesn't mean that no dissent isn't seditious.
44 - Eric Berlin
John, you're playing fast and loose with your own guidelines.
You've gone from labeling "the left" as seditious to "there are those on the left."
You state that Dubrin "called the military a bunch of Nazis," yet that's a falsehood. He stated that some of what happened at Gitmo is akin to acts perpetrated by fascist regimes.
And he apologized.
By the way, where's the lie there?
Oh yeah, I remember: Karl Rove painting "the left" as a bunch of terrorist-lovers.
45 - Shark
"....there are those on the Left who aren't concerned with facts who have spread lies and attack the troops."
SOME BUT NOT ALL, just as THERE ARE THOSE ON THE RIGHT [edited].
Some, but not all.
John.
46 - John Bambenek
He didn't apologize for what he said... it was a non-apology...
47 - Shark
And Bambi, if they ever pass an amendment against writing tired CLICHES, yer ass is gonna go to prison.
Thanks,
Shark calling a duck a duck
48 - RogerMDillion
I don't understand why you guys even bother. This muckraker doesn't care about the truth or this country.
49 - Scott
Forget it. John, you're hopeless.
50 - Voracious Reader
What does window-licking mean?
51 - John Bambenek
You are right... I'm hopeless if you define hope as getting me to convert to communism.
52 - Scott
"I'm hopeless if you define hope as getting me to convert to communism"
Which was, of course, my intent all along. You have cut to the core of me.
Any other outrageous and/or lunatic-like things you'd like to say/declare?
53 - John Bambenek
That apparently those on the left like blaming Israel for 9/11 and wish Israel would be made to no longer exist...
http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/06/14/214038.php
See for yourself.
54 - Eric Berlin
Okay, we get it. There's a fringe left.
There's a fringe right, too. I think that's what Shark was colorfully illustrating above.
More importantly, there's a Republican administration in power alongside a GOP-controlled Congress.
So which fringe should we be concerned about, really?
55 - John Bambenek
And who precisely is the fringe right?
The Klan? No, they're leftists...
56 - El Bicho
Do you think this info bolsters Al Queda?
From the Wash Post: The Bush administration acknowledged yesterday that it is short $1 billion for covering current needs at the Department of Veterans Affairs this year.
If you were in the military, what would bother you more: what someone says on the floor of Congress or the fact that you might not get the care you need when you return home?
Spin away!
57 - John Bambenek
Well obviously any rational person would rail against the Nazi Bush administration for short-changing the vets.
58 - Eric Berlin
And who precisely is the fringe right?
That's a joke, right?
59 - John Bambenek
People men different things by it... what do YOU mean?
60 - Temple Stark
John must be saying we're all fringe.
61 - John Bambenek
I'm more of a lace person then a fringe person
62 - Temple Stark
Every person in the globe is "fringe."
63 - Steve S
I'm more of a lace person
and you are trying to create a world where you can get your ass kicked for that preference.
I thought David Flanagan was Fringe Right here at BC, but you make him seem as liberal as Barbara Boxer. You are past fringe, and my reason for saying so is that you are closed to debate/alternative theory. You won't let the Left tell you it's viewpoint, you insist on telling the Left what it wants.
64 - John Bambenek
Steve:
That was humor... you apparently missed it.
You also assume that I haven't heard the Left's position. I have, and it boils down to this...
Surrender all your freedom, all your property, and all your rights to the nanny state that can run society better than you can. Sit down, shut up, and let the "elites" run the show.
The Taliban is the penultimate liberal form of government.
65 - Steve S
Actually, John, I definitely got it.
Also, I said:
you insist on telling the Left what it wants
which was promptly followed by exhibit A:
it (what the Left is about) boils down to this...
66 - Eric Berlin
Hilarious... well played, Steve.
67 - El Bicho
Steve,
you act like John cares about the truth. Obviously, you haven't read his posts before. He is just an attack dog who has gone mad like Old Yeller.
68 - John Bambenek
I care about the truth... the truth is this...
There is nothing redeemable about liberal thought.
It destroys individuals, intellectually, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. It destroys families. It destroys communities. It destroys nations. It destroys cultures.
The 10 biggest genocides of the 20th century were committed by socialist or communist governments. I do not believe this to be a coincidence. Purges are something that happens in communist countries, not free ones. The Left's concern about the truth can be shown in the Alger Hiss - Whittaker Chambers case, where even after Alger was found guilty, even after decrypted cables were declassified, people still insist the communist spy Alger Hiss was the victim. The Left has seen the future, and it was communist Russia. They've never gotten over it's collapse.
The truth is that there is nothing redeemable about liberal thought.
Nothing. It's a classic example of luciferian theology at work.
69 - gonzo marx
the Truth is that some folks enjoy being crypto fascists that scream conform or die
the Truth is that "there is more on Heaven and Earth than is dreamt in your Philosophy"
the Truth is that there is nothing redeemable about close minded, larger mouthed, small brained, neo-con, greed based "faith" and that the sooner those it has hypnotized wake up to the fact that their Masters own their shriveled souls the happier this Nation will be
to the Sloop John B, that last bit by you destroys any semblance of sanity i might have thought you possesed
you have won this week's Insidious Troglodyte Award
may Bog and JuJu have mercy on what is left of your mind...
Excelsior!
70 - Eric Berlin
It's a classic example of luciferian theology at work.
You realize that what you're saying has absolutely no relation to reality, yes?
71 - Pete Blackwell
John, How dare you even use the phrase "intellectual honesty" (comment 32)?
72 - Dave Nalle
Regardless of whether it's true, the impression which John B. has of the left is one which is shared wholeheartedly by at least a third of the population and believed at least to some extent by another third. It might be a good idea for those on the left to think about how to disabuse people of the notion that they are exactly what he describes them as - perhaps by putting forward an agenda that makes some sense, has some objectives and promotes some desirable values.
If you don't define yourself then your enemy will define you.
Dave
73 - John Bambenek
Eric:
I don't think you know what luciferian means... it means doing evil while thinking you are doing good. I believe most of you have good intentions, but the fact is the theology you espouse is harmful.
And I think the Left has defined what they are for (besides being against George Bush). For decades, the word Republican has been a term of derision. The Left, when in charge, locked out and swept aside all those who might land on the conservative side of the spectrum, but swept away much more than that. They took aim at the religious as well.
Now the tables are turned, and they're pissed they aren't being invited to the party. You made the rules, you get to live by them.
And instead of voicing a platform or defining themselves, the sit around and blame the Jews for 9/11, are under the delusion that all our civil liberties have gone away (well you could make the argument about private property, but that was a ruling brought by the left), the the terrorists are "freedom fighters", the we are torturing people at Gitmo, and that we're killing journalists and civilians for sport.
The problem isn't they haven't defined themselves... the problem is that they've been to honest when they have.
74 - gonzo marx
Mr Nalle, as you may have gathered, i have no great love for the far Left either
but i have yet to see any examples from the Left that rise to anywhere near the level of shit that folks like Coulter,Limbaugh,Savage and Sloop John B. here spew forth..
John B sez...
*There is nothing redeemable about liberal thought.
It destroys individuals, intellectually, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. It destroys families. It destroys communities. It destroys nations. It destroys cultures.*
right there..unfounded, no facts or cases cited for the Argument...nothing but hate spewing forth, nothign to back up the ditto head screed...
hell, it ain't even funny...just pathetic
the Problem with those that "believe" this kind of shit is that they just follow what their Masters tell them, they swallow this type of blind, unfounded hate-speech whole and wash it down with soem Jim Jones kool-aid
note, his earlier attempt to equate the Left with the Taliban...any sane and rational person can see how that falls apart...the Taliban were an ultra conservative totalitarian Fundamentalist theocracy for Bog's sake, you know that allowed NO dissent
kind of like Washington at this point in our History...ok, that was close to being an unfair jab...but note how mild it is when compared to Comment #68...just Illustrating a Point here
i find it fascinating that the GOP is screaming for the dems to "put out your Agenda" so it can be co-opted and stolen, the serial numbers filed off, and a few back door bits slid in under the radar...and where i personally feel that it might be a good Idea to get some of the Dems out there defining their side fo the Debate a bit more coherently...they are the Minority and in Opposition...
you know..like the GOP under Newt was...like the Senate was when the Dems had control...but Herr Rove and the Noise Machine doesn't want folks to even think about the facts of History...just what the Machine is screaming about on the AM dial at the Moment
real Conservatives, Libertarians, fiscal Conservatives, the Moderates...these folks i have disagreed with..but can Understand and even hold Respect for...George Will comes to mind...
but neo-cons, the "social conservative" and evangeli-politicals as well as the Coulterites, and dittoheads are a real problem...
where folks like you, Mr Nalle, should be concerned is that the sleepy Middle is waking up a bit and seems to think that the GOP is made up of those dittoheads and fundamentalists
and they ain't happy, as recent polling is starting to show
your mileage may vary
Excelsior!
75 - John Bambenek
Gonzo:
This is a comment board, not a place to post treatises. If you want 100 or so pages, I can produce a nice little book, but don't fault me for not posting it here.
But you caught me... I got a call from Karl Rove a few hours ago that told me to post this...