The new dollar coins will be distributed February, 2007; one will feature Nixon.
Remember the Eisenhower Dollar? Now that was a dollar’s dollar. It was twice as big as a quarter and felt heavier than it really was and when you had one in your pocket, you knew it was there. One of the reasons that later dollar-coin attempts failed was that their size shrank to smaller than a 50-cent piece. This caused the Susan B. Anthony coin to be nicknamed the “Carter Quarter” because so many people were spending them as 25-cent pieces by mistake.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments126 - sr
From Elvis not Elis with love.
127 - Gregory Gordon
I am glad to see a discussion about church and state and the New Dollar coins. But it presents a big problem for true believers in the word of God because at least one of our presidents has been prominently linked with being the beast of Revelation 12 and 13. Ronald Wilson Reagan.
Now while I am the most vocal voice in the world concerning the subject there are more than 200,000 pages that link the word antichrist beast and reagan on the world wide web.
The dollar coin in my opinion may very well be the Mark of the beast without which no man may buy or sell. And I once really did hear a voice in my head saying "you shall overcome," hundreds of times.
Please forgive me if the subject has been breeched already but I read most of the posts and if it were it certainly did not become the major talk of the forum as it well should be.
Ronald Wilson Reagan was the antichrist. How can we avoid his mark? Better yet, suppose that Reagan is not the antichrist how can we avoid any denomination of money? or Smart Cards? or Chips in the Hand or Head?
128 - Jet in Columbus
dear Gregory, While I somewhat agree with Reagan being the antiChrist, I'd say his "mark of the beast" has already been made on National Airport, and several Government buildings, not to mention grade and highschools.
In any case the coin with his likeness isn't due out until at least 2017, and if the failure rate of it's predecessors is any indication, the coin will probably fall out of favor before it's minted.
There have been many attempts at putting Reagan on the dime and also the 10 dollar bill which failed.
I'd think it'd anger the "gods" that Nixon beat him onto the coin first, and comically that Nancy will make it to a ten dollar gold piece long before he does.
Rest easy, these things have a way of workign out.
By the way, Dubya's the antiCrist.
thanks for contributing to the conversation
Jet
129 - Rev. B Rice
I spent considerable time reading the diatribe of things written here after comeing by this by accident. It is evident that your site id purely politically motivated. I am a democrat, thank you. However I find no shame in recognizing God on coinage or any other place. We live in a Democracy where the Majority rules supposidly. According to the allmighty polls that everyone loves...86% of Americans believe in God and Jesus Christ. Because some one person is offended ...Must we all suffer? How about my rights? In school we used to open everyday in prayer...You didn't have to listen or participate, you just were expected to respect the short time others did. Remarkably enough we didn't have kids on drugs either illegal or legal for disapline problems, no guns at school, no kids killing kids... Maybe we should be less offended over our personal thoughts and think of this country for the great place it is. If you think it was not founded on the belief in God, it proves your lack of knowledge. So yes, I appreciate the "In God We Trust."
Finally, the statements made about President Reagan being the Anti-Christ obviously have their heads buried in the sand, portraying an interesting target. A study of the Bible clearly says that is ridiculous. Oh Excuse me...You consider that politically incorrect...Don't quote the Bible that you don't read or understand...OK
130 - Jet in Columbus
Reverend, as a teen I wanted to be a Presbyterian Minister and until recently I traditionally would read the Bible from cover to cover every year between Thanksgiving Day and Christmas.
Can you brag that?
Don't judge that of which you know nothing about... but then again that's what most self-righteous people do isn't it. They take up the bible in order to "Speak for God" and enpower themselves over others.
Our constitution also protects those who aren't christian as well. Therefore it protects Jews from having to listen to Christian prayer in the classroom, just as it would protect Christian children from having to hear prayers from a Moslim or a Jewish teacher.
The majority of americans support a woman's right to choose to have an abortion, so your argument about majority rules falls flat.
The majority of americans have also smoke marijuana at one time or another in their lives and support it's use too.
Or are you so hypocritical that it only counts when the majority is on your side?
If that were the case no minority race in the country would have ever gained the right to vote until the latter part of the last century.
The individual is the corner stone of "United we stand" not the other way around.
Thanks for contributing
Jet
131 - Rev. B Rice
It would seem that you are the judgemental one here. If you have read the entire Bible in those short times then you did not study it. Still it is not my place to judge that.
I AM A PRESBYTERIAN MINISTER and I can show you that the Book you read in such a short period of time does definitively speak as to the abortion issue and the use of mind altering drugs...but since you are so all knowing...you already know that.
As for hypocritical...I do not speak for God...I do not have that ability. Mine is to Walk the Walk, not Talk the Talk.
Judge not; lest you be judged my Brother/Sister in Christ.
132 - Jet in Columbus
Rev. you of all people should know that an argument for or against anything no matter how radical or conservative can be found in the bible should you look hard enough.
Multiple wives, slavery, death to Jews, owning a black car verses a green one, not tithing 10 percent of your stock income to your local church.
When you pick and choose, you expose yourself for what you are.
I'll admit that in the latter years I'd skim over the verses I'd become all too familiar with, but I still searched for justification to honor judgemental cretins like you.
We all have our own opinions.
I noticed you skipped over my arguments concerning forced prayer in school. Turn about is fair play.
"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"
133 - lb
"In God We Trust"
The phrase was first used on the U.S. two-cent coin in 1864. It appeared on the nickel, quarter, half-dollar, and silver dollar and on the $5, $10, and $20 gold pieces in 1866, on the penny in 1909, and on the dime in 1916. Dropped from the nickel in 1883, the phrase reappeared on the nickel in 1938. All U.S. coins now issued bear the motto.
134 - Lyle
It is interest that our government leaders has classified all christians in American as far right wing republicians, I guess democrats are on longer christians?
135 - don freadman
won't it be a big awaking when they find out there is a god opps
136 - Jet Gardner
It's a good thing I checked today, which is impossible on a daily basis.
FOR THOSE OF US WHO CARE ABOUT COMMENTS ON OUR ARTICLES-which is one of the only rewards we get for writing the damned things-
PLEASE GET THE COMMENT NOTIFICATION E-MAILS FIXED...
how many months has it been now?
137 - Jim
Great...
Take God off and put Nixon on.
We really have lost our minds!!!
138 - Jet Gardner
By putting God on the coins Jim, we're establishing a religion which is against the constitution-otherwise it'd also say in Budha we trust, in Allah we trust, in pencil we trust, in the dollar we trust, in Pat Robertson we trust.
As for Nixon, until he got caught up in Watergate he was one of the most effective foreign policy presidents this country ever had.
As for whether he deserves to be on a coin?
Hey We the People elected him... right?
139 - Peggy
The phrase separation of church and state is not in the constitution, declaration of independence or the bill of rights as most Americans suppose. It is in a letter one man wrote to another, that's it! The founding fathers of our nation have always held to their belief in God and the Bible.
140 - Jet Gardner
Any more bullshit and disinformation you born-agains would like to spread?
The separation of church and state is a legal and political principle derived from the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ." The modern concept often credited to the writings of English philosopher John Locke, the phrase "separation of church and state" is generally traced to an 1802 letter by Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists, where Jefferson spoke of the combined effect of the Establishment Clause and the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment
You know Thomas Jefferson don't you? Pat Robertson says he was sent down by God to establish a Christian Holyland in the Americas? God save us all from you twisted idiots. You twist facts into OPINIONS that fit your opinions and then try to sell them as "perverted" fact again.
I'm not buying
{:^p~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
141 - Jet Gardner
By the way George Washington's true personal "religion" was as a Free Mason
142 - Jet Gardner
A few Christian fundamentalists attempt to convince us to return to the Christianity of early America, yet according to the historian, Robert T. Handy, "No more than 10 percent-- probably less-- of Americans in 1800 were members of congregations."
The Founding Fathers, also, rarely practiced Christian orthodoxy. Although they supported the free exercise of any religion, they understood the dangers of religion. Most of them believed in deism and attended Freemasonry lodges. According to John J. Robinson, "Freemasonry had been a powerful force for religious freedom." Freemasons took seriously the principle that men should worship according to their own conscience. Masonry welcomed anyone from any religion or non-religion, as long as they believed in a Supreme Being. Washington, Franklin, Hancock, Hamilton, Lafayette, and many others accepted Freemasonry.
The Constitution reflects our founders views of a secular government, protecting the freedom of any belief or unbelief. The historian, Robert Middlekauff, observed, "the idea that the Constitution expressed a moral view seems absurd. There were no genuine evangelicals in the Convention, and there were no heated declarations of Christian piety."
143 - Jet Gardner
Much of the myth of Washington's alleged Christianity came from Mason Weems influential book, "Life of Washington." The story of the cherry tree comes from this book and it has no historical basis. Weems, a Christian minister portrayed Washington as a devout Christian, yet ---Washington's own diaries show that he rarely attended Church.---
Washington revealed almost nothing to indicate his spiritual frame of mind, hardly a mark of a devout Christian. In his thousands of letters, the name of Jesus Christ never appears. He rarely spoke about his religion, but his Freemasonry experience points to a belief in deism. Washington's initiation occurred at the Fredericksburg Lodge on 4 November 1752, later becoming a Master mason in 1799, and remained a freemason until he died.
To the United Baptist Churches in Virginia in May, 1789, Washington said that every man "ought to be protected in worshipping the Deity according to the dictates of his own conscience."
After Washington's death, Dr. Abercrombie, a friend of his, replied to a Dr. Wilson, who had interrogated him about Washington's religion replied, "Sir, Washington was a Deist."
Thomas Jefferson
Even most Christians do not consider Jefferson a Christian. In many of his letters, he denounced the superstitions of Christianity. He did not believe in spiritual souls, angels or godly miracles. Although Jefferson did admire the morality of Jesus, Jefferson did not think him divine, nor did he believe in the Trinity or the miracles of Jesus. In a letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787, he wrote, "Question with boldness even the existence of a god."
... he was later reincarnated as Sir Christopher Rose
Jefferson believed in materialism, reason, and science. He never admitted to any religion but his own. In a letter to Ezra Stiles Ely, 25 June 1819, he wrote, "You say you are a Calvinist. I am not. I am of a sect by myself, as far as I know."
144 - Jet Gardner
James Madison
Called the father of the Constitution, Madison had no conventional sense of Christianity. In 1785, Madison wrote in his Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments:
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
145 - Cindy
Peggy,
Who gives a care about the foundering fathers. They were a bunch of drunks.
Out with the dead idiots, bring on some new ones. Putting Nixon on a coin sounds more honest. Can't wait to the the Bush-Cheney mint set.
(... he was later reincarnated as Sir Christopher Rose... roflol!)
146 - Jet Gardner
The most convincing evidence that our government did not ground itself upon Christianity comes from the very document that defines it-- the United States Constitution.
If indeed our Framers had aimed to found a Christian republic, it would seem highly unlikely that they would have forgotten to leave out their Christian intentions in the Supreme law of the land. In fact, nowhere in the Constitution do we have a single mention of Christianity, God, Jesus, or any Supreme Being. There occurs only two references to religion and they both use exclusionary wording. The 1st Amendment's says, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion. . ." and in Article VI, Section 3, ". . . no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
Thomas Jefferson:
"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."
As Thomas Jefferson wrote in his Autobiography, in reference to the Virginia Act for Religious Freedom:
"Where the preamble declares, that coercion is a departure from the plan of the holy author of our religion, an amendment was proposed by inserting "Jesus Christ," so that it would read "A departure from the plan of Jesus Christ, the holy author of our religion;" the insertion was rejected by the great majority, in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination."
James Madison, perhaps the greatest supporter for separation of church and State, and whom many refer to as the father of the Constitution, also held similar views which he expressed in his letter to Edward Livingston, 10 July 1822:
"And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."
Today, if ever our government needed proof that the separation of church and State works to ensure the freedom of religion, one only need to look at the plethora of Churches, temples, and shrines that exist in the cities and towns throughout the United States. Only a secular government, divorced from religion could possibly allow such tolerant diversity.
147 - Jet Gardner
Amen Cindy
148 - Jet Gardner
I love hit-and-run born agains who leave their bullshit as facts then skulk into the shadows thinking we'll believe it since it appeared as words before our ignorant and all-accepting eyes.
Of course once they're proven wrong they'll ignore our presented facts and quotes as mere opinion. Much the way that they accept as fact that the earth and stars are no more than 5000 years old, that dinosaurs didn't really exist and the bones were place there by God to test our faith in them and that THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA is falling horribly behind scientifically after Pope George Bush II insisted that the Bible be taught as fact, and that Science be taught as a theory.
god help us all
149 - Dr Dreadful
according to the historian, Robert T. Handy, "No more than 10 percent-- probably less-- of Americans in 1800 were members of congregations."
To be fair, Jet, I'd guess that the principal reason for that was that America at that time was an overwhelmingly rural society and most of the population lived an inconvenient distance from the nearest church.
150 - Jet Gardner
Oh... well that certainly negates all those quotes about our founding fathers and America not being started as a theocracy as the born-agains would have you believe.
I stand corrected
amen
151 - Dr Dreadful
I will say, though, that it is fascinating that Christians, historically, have seemed unable to shake off the paganism they supposedly abhor.
There's Roman Catholicism with its saints - particularly those designated as patron saints for every imaginable facet of life and the world - and the churches which bear their names. They're direct descendants of the pagan gods and the temples dedicated to them.
Modern American Protestants don't pay much mind to saints, of course. Instead, their pantheon seems to be the Founding Fathers.
152 - Dr Dreadful
Jet (150), all I'm saying is that Handy seems to be trying to argue that early America was not an overwhelmingly Christian society. He's dead wrong.
You are, however, absolutely correct in your observations that (a) its political leaders, and in particular the core group known as the Founding Fathers, were by and large not Christians, or at least not as most people would understand it; and (b) they did not envisage a particular brand of faith, be it Christianity, Judaism, Zoroastrianism or anything else, being enshrined in the Constitution.
That said, I think most of them took the existence of some sort of higher power or Creator for granted - hence the language of the Declaration of Independence and some of the other founding documents. I suspect that most of them would not have much of a problem with the words 'In God We Trust' appearing on the currency.
Then again, the Founding Fathers were not gods and their words and thoughts are not law.
This one will run and run, I think!
153 - Cindy
their pantheon seems to be the Founding Fathers
precious...
154 - Jet Gardner
Point taken Doc. I will point however that the motto and disinformation about our founders didn't appear until around a hundred years after the country was set up.
155 - Jet Gardner
To Lyle #134,
According to most republicans, democrats aren't christians, nor are they patriotic.
I personally am not a God-fearing christian because I simply don't fear god. God-if there is one-did not create us to fear him. I fear only the judgement of pious jerks who claim to be his representatives and want us to fear them as his spokesman-giving them power and making them rich.
156 - Dr Dreadful
True, Jet. In other words, shortly after a civil war had almost ripped the country apart and right in the middle of the Victorian era with all its Christian revivalist movements.
The prevailing public opinion before that point seems to have been that religion was a matter for communities, and that it was perfectly reasonable for there to be no reference to it in relation to government and the law.
157 - Jet Gardner
In other words about the time religion stopped being a belief and became a tax-exempt business
158 - Dr Dreadful
LOL.
"Render unto Caesar..."
159 - Jet Gardner
The Dog Whisperer?
160 - Dr Dreadful
Heh.
Fancy him, do you? ;-)
161 - Dr Dreadful
I need a cat whisperer, anyway.
162 - Cindy
Cesar is very cool.
163 - Cindy
Cat whisperer...pffffft! Good luck with that. lol
164 - Jet Gardner
meow
165 - Jet Gardner
In that case it'd be "In Dog We Trust"?
166 - Dr Dreadful
Well, his thyroid is fucked and he has chronic kidney failure. As a result, he goes crazy on a regular basis. The vet just upped his meds and that seems to have calmed him down a bit, but his recalcitrant organs are obviously bothering him. :-(
167 - Jet Gardner
I cherished a cat to death with kidney failure Doc, I couldn't let him go and would have him hooked up to an IV bag daily to keep him alive.
I hated myself for prolonging his suffering for three months after the diagnosis because I couldn't bear to lose him. His ashes still sit on my desk 10 years later.
168 - Dr Dreadful
Apart from his behavioural problems, Jet, mine is in good health for now. We had a bit of a scare a couple of months ago when he went under general anaesthetic to have his teeth cleaned and struggled to recover: his kidneys couldn't process out the drugs properly and his back half was spastic for days.
Now he's back to jumping up on things, peeing outside his litter box (thank goodness for black garbage sacks!), biting us on the chin, charging about and bugging the hell out of his sister.
Cats.
169 - roger nowosielski
Welcome home, Jet. I hope you're doing reasonably well.
170 - Jet Gardner
Home... is where the heart is?
171 - Mark
"Home is where you wear your hat..."
172 - Jet Gardner
If we can get a cat cheap, I think we may have a movie!
173 - Mark
Speaking of hearts, how's yours?
174 - Debbie
What is our world coming too? Our forefathers are rolling in their graves. You know the way I see it leave our coins alone, if you don't believe in God or don't want to see the comment don't use the coins. We will ship you over to the communist countries. I am just saying.....
175 - Jet Gardner
Debbie, the motto "in god we trust" was NOT originally on our coinage, and was not prominently displayed on it until 1959.
Our country was not founded on exclusively southern baptist "values" either... nor is Jesus nemtioned anywhere in the constitution... and for good reason.
...just saying.