Here we go again with another outburst from the Religion of Perpetual Outrage. Muslims worldwide are angry again, this time at the Pope.
Here we go again with another outburst from the Religion of Perpetual Outrage. Muslims worldwide are angry again, this time at (Can you guess who? Drum roll, please. . .) the Pope!…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - muslim
the pope is hurting muslims feeling in all around the world, why is he's doing this ???????? i need an answer.we didn't do anything to him or to his church
27 - muslim
to stm
i think you have to read much more about islam ok and read the quraan before saying anything ok!!!!
28 - muslim
The Koran and the Bible and Torah are Celestial books
29 - Clavos
muslim says:
we didn't do anything to him or to his church
Oh really? Muslims are assassinating Christians (many of whom are ceratinly Catholics), Jews, in short, NON MUSLIMS on a staggering scale ALREADY.
The Pope has a moral obligation to speak out against the murdering of his flock.
I don't practice any religion, but I admire and commend the Pope for having courage that few Western secular leaders have so far shown.
30 - Dave Nalle
I'm really getting sick and tired of one mad religious cult after another having these pathetic little rows about which strand of their totally insane rhetoric is the right one - and the smug sense of moral superiority they display whilst doing it.
What's significant about the Pope's quote is that it is NOT a piece of religious dogma or doctrine, but a historical quote by a widely acknowledged political sage of a past era which illustrates the same concerns about Islam which we have today.
Ignoring the fact that it may offend muslims, it's actually fairly insightful.
Dave
31 - Clavos
Dave says:
Ignoring the fact that it may offend muslims, it's actually fairly insightful.
It IS insightful.
If it offends the "good" Muslims I say, so what? Until they begin, in significant numbers, to speak out against the extremists and their murderous rampages, they DESERVE to be offended.
Maybe the Pope's quote will open some moderate Muslim eyes.
32 - STM
Muslim said in #27: "to stm
i think you have to read much more about islam ok and read the quraan before saying anything ok!!!!"
Dear Muslim,
I do read the Quran, and regularly ... I have a beautiful bound English copy of it wrapped in a clean piece of cloth and placed on the highest part of my bookshelf, in accordance with its status as a very holy book and in accordance with the wishes of the moderate but kind and devout muslim Australian friend who gave it to me. I also wash my hands and do the other things required before I read it (because I promised I would).
One verse, loosely translated into English, reads: "Get to know one another ... be friends ... there should be no compulsion in religion".
I will consider that to be my invitation from God not to become a Muslim - but to remain kind and compassionate to good Muslims as my Catholic beliefs require.
I lived in a Muslim country as a child, although I was born in England. As a boy I climbed the old mosque at Samarra, the first in the world built by the caliphs for Friday prayers, on a steep spiral staircase and without the aid of a handrail and sat at the top for hours looking out on the desert and watching the sun go down.
It was a spiritual experience, for sure, although I didn't understand it at the time. So was waking up each morning listening to the muezzin calling people to prayer from a dozen mosques around Baghdad.
I loved all that stuff, and I think it's a wonderful thing if that's what you want in your life. But quite frankly, I don't.
Just that fact alone should be enough.
33 - muslim
Dear STM
thats realy good that u had read koran before and i realy appreciate u .
i want to ask u a question :
why the pope r insulting our prophets and our messenger ??? and why everybody is saying islam is terror ????
34 - muslim
the koran , pible and torah is a peacefull religion and that's what iam trying to tell u people .
35 - STM
Dear Muslim:
The Pope is quoting a Byzantine (eastern Roman) emperor alive 800 years ago while the Turks were conducting a holy war (jihad) against Byzantium. They captured Constantinople, which is now Istanbul, and forced many Christians to become Muslims.
It is too long to explain in detail here, but he is simply pointing out that some Muslims today believe (in opposition to the word of God as expressed through Muhammad in the Quran) that it is their duty to use violence to convert non-believers.
This remains true today. There are Muslims today who use violence to reach these ends. The emperor quoted by The Pope was saying that such things are against the nature of God, who in the Christian belief is expressed in the views of Christ (Isa) about compassion, non-judgment, kindness, and forgiveness.
In truth, according to my beliefs, I have to forgive those who want to kill me.
But I'm a human being ... sometimes that's too difficult. And sometimes you have to stand up against evil (those who claim that Islam allows them to kill innocent people in the name of God, or any other religious or secular group that believes in similar things).
Good muslims must stand up and condem these things too. You and other good Muslims should also be angry at the people who do these things, not at Christians, or Jews or non-believers or a Pope quoting a man who was being persecuted 700 years ago by people who also had the belief of Jihad. The true meaning of Jihad, according to the Quran, is not violence but the internal spiritual struggle and the determination in the face of all difficulties to lead a good life.
36 - pleasexcusetheinterruption12
STM # 14...you demand an apology from muslim clerics for something which they are completely unresponsible for and which is completely out of their control? Who's playing victim now?
The pope's comments, while historically interesting, are unnecessarily provocative and accusatory. The pope quotes the emperor:
"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
As anyone who is familiar with islam knows, this statement is completely false. Muhammad brought much more than violence to religion (if in fact he even did bring violence) and the Pope's implication that all Muhammad contributed was violence is incredibly narrowminded. It could only insult anybody who appreciates the religios practices brought by Muhammad.
But of course, the whole world would be much better off if islam and christianity realized it's impossible to prove God exists and that it's completely useless arguing about something that probably doesnt exist and whose nature is completely unkown even if he does exist.
37 - Matthew T. Sussman
"Judaism, Christianity and Islam are crimes against both humanity and any genuine sense of awe or spirituality."
With sentiments like that, atheism might as well be a religion too.
38 - Clavos
Atheism IS a religion: it's believers are every bit as fervent as the most ardent "religious" faithful.
Their central belief, the non-existence of god, is no more empirically verifiable than is belief in his existence; and thus must also be taken on faith.
39 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Reading this and the comments appended really has had me amused. Ratzinger going after Islam. We're seeing another side of this ugly dude that we will see more of.
Greg, you missed the significance of Ratzinger's remarks entirely. Europeans (excluding the fine fellows on this list for whom I do not pretend to speak) are getting sick and tired of Moslems lording it over them in their own countries and the milquetoast (sp?) cowards of politicians there who rag on and on about multiculturalism, pluralism and tolerance - while Moslem gangs rape their wives and daughters with impunity.
This is Ratzinger letting these Europeans who are sick of Islam and Moslems pushing them around in their home countries - he's letting them know just whose side he is on. There will be more statements like this in the future...
So when the violent holocaust and murder of Moslems in Europe comes - and it surely will, Ratzinger will be leading the cheering section of European politicians saying "it's time to clean the filth out."
Side note to Shark:
Had Joshua and his immediate successors carried out Devarim/Deuteronomy 20:16-17 as they were supposed to, we would have had a sovereign and peaceful kingdom there for the last 3,000 years, and the world would be a far far better place.
Sometimes, you do have to clean the filth out.
40 - SHARK
Aw, shit.
Mr. "Muslim" had just about rounded up a SMIDGEN of empathy from Shark -- until he wrote this:
#21: "...after 10 years the european countries will be a muslim countries .(because it's truth religion ) And the end of the world muslims will be strong and they will [fight] israeli peoples and we will have palestine back..."
My internal roof-brain voice went into APU from The Simpsons mode -- and I pictured some bearded guy with a good tan using a cheap michrophone while pounding his greasy paw on a podium somewhere in Bumfuck, Egypt.
Then I had to repress the urge to strangle him with a modem cord; but that's not a comment on his Islamic religion per se -- that's Shark's Pavlovian Response to anybody who starts "preachin'" at 'im.
PS: This is either a pretty well-done *joke by an anti-Muslim westerner -- or more proof that when it comes to Islam -- We're Fucked.
*ah, the internet! Ain't it great!?
=========
PPS: This really tired, really old, previously discredited "atheism is a religion" nonsense is so ridiculous that it doesn't deserve any "debate". You kids go get a Dictionary and take your junior-high metaphysical pronouncements back to the playground. (Oh, and hold someone's hand when you cross the street. Or not.)
Thanks in advance,
The Management.
PPPS: STM, Good stuff, mate!
41 - IgnatiusReilly
"Their central belief, the non-existence of god, is no more empirically verifiable than is belief in his existence; and thus must also be taken on faith."
What? Since when do you have to prove a negative? Maybe this is a new idea for some of you deep thinkers, but the non-existence of god doesn't have to be proven because that starts with the unproven premise that god exists. Prove that you aren't a Martian, Clavos.
42 - Clavos
Iggy,
I didn't say it HAD to be proven; merely that it couldn't.
I AM a Martian.
43 - IgnatiusReilly
Clavos, it doesn't have to.
44 - Silas Kain
Stupid Pope? Does he not speak the truth? The bottom line is that Christianity and Islam share a history of inhuman, senseless violence all in the name of peaceful religions. Organized religion has become a curse upon mankind rather than a source of comfort and spiritual peace. Mark my words it won't be that long before some mindless, spineless Muslim suicide bomber will bring destruction upon the Vatican. Then the proverbial manure will hit the fan.
45 - Dave Nalle
Shark, his latest comment should have made you empathize with him more, since he's obviously mentally challenged.
As for strangling muslims, a modem cable is too flimsy. You want to use a USB cord and make sure the magnetic interference thingy gets right on their adams apple.
Dave
46 - Silas Kain
Do Muslims have Adam's Apples? Isn't that a Hebrew thing?
47 - RedTard
ATHEIST LEADERS HAVE COMMITTED THE GREATEST GENOCIDES IN HUMAN HISTORY, period, end of story. Adam, Shark, and the rest of the anti-religious fanatics can argue semantics all they want. It's certainly better than facing the fact that the ideology they represent is much more of a danger than that of rat-benedict.
Fanatics in general are dangerous, not necessarily the ideas they espouse. To fanatics, their ideal ends always justify the means. The question is who represents the highest levels of fanticism. Worldwide, muslims are pretty devoted nuts. I suppose praying 5 times a day gets one's mind in the correct frame to do anything. Here in the states the left is our danger. The same moronic fanaticism that drives muslim protests over cartoons provides the fuel for all these leftist nutjobs parading about the streets for this or that cause.
You can't get near the same participation or fanaticism from liberty loving rightists. Besides the fact that it's against their principles to try and force their ideals on others (that's what protest are really all about), most just don't espouse that much hate for people of differing viewpoints.
Also, before the nuts respond, please don't bring up the obligatory 'well, that one looney right winger shot an abortion doctor'.... It takes alot of those to equal any one of the multimillion man genocides put on for humanity by leftist-atheist regimes. Many of the recent shootouts with right wingers have been because they want to be left the fuck alone, an honorable request in my book.
48 - Dave Nalle
You can't get near the same participation or fanaticism from liberty loving rightists.
True, because the ones who genuinely love liberty are usually atheists too.
Dave
49 - Matthew T. Sussman
Silas, are you suggesting that all muslims are transsexuals?
Because that kind of assertion would ROCK.
50 - Silas Kain
ATHEIST LEADERS HAVE COMMITTED THE GREATEST GENOCIDES IN HUMAN HISTORY, period, end of story. Adam, Shark, and the rest of the anti-religious fanatics can argue semantics all they want. It's certainly better than facing the fact that the ideology they represent is much more of a danger than that of rat-benedict.
Did Atheists slaughter the Armenians? Did Atheist French slaughter Algerians? Did Atheist Europeans inflict horrible atrocities upon Muslims? I'm sick of the Jews being the only genocidal victims. Thanks to mass media and obscene control of all things financial, we have been indoctrinated to believe that the Holocaust upon the Jews is the only Holocaust in history. Boo hoo.
Insofar as the "rat-benedict" is concerned, are you subtley exhibiting your own hatred for Germans? I find Benedict XVI slightly amusing and an impotent transitional Pope. Mother Church is in for its own brand of self-destruction very soon. The Roman Church is crumbling, folks and when the final fall comes it will be with a whimper. St. Malachy prophesizes only one Pope after Benedict. Praise God, it's about damn time!
Silas, are you suggesting that all muslims are transsexuals?
Well, in the Muslim world there is an old saying: "Women are for children, men are for fun." Can't get any gayer than that, can you? They probably drape their wimmin folk in burquas so they don't have to confront their own collective mammarial/vaginal envy.
51 - Dave Nalle
Women for children, boys for pleasure, melons for ecstasy - that's the full Turkish quote, though it may be apocryphal.
As for the transexual issue, many Koranic scholars believe that the Lost Imam will be reborn from a man rather than a woman. Makes you think.
Dave
52 - Silas Kain
Brings new meaning to fruit of the loins.
53 - Rumm
The problem with all the comments above either with or against is that they all reflect a deep ignorance and the frightful influence the media has on us today. All relegions have come from the same God the creator of mankind and all preach the same. The current differences between religions has been created by political organisations who breed on such differences the more conflict there is the more important and influential they become. They have managed to enter our lives through the media, the education systems...etc. Their manepulation has even reached our hearts and feelings they have even forged history to confuse us even worse they have forged relegions.
54 - Clavos
Iggy:
Once more, I KNOW IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE PROVEN that there is no god. I personally don't think the question is even worthy of discussion, since the question of existence or not is virtually of no importance whatever in the real world.
55 - Bliffle
Once again the islamists have incited violent protests to fight their characterization as violent people in a violent religion.
56 - Silas Kain
Be it a Crescent, a Cross or a Star of David... all three symbols represent the senseless sacrifice of millions of innocents in the name of Gollaweah. Sad but true yet no one dares admit that simple premise.
57 - pleasexcusetheinterruption12
RE Redtard:
Fanatics in general are dangerous, not necessarily the ideas they espouse. To fanatics, their ideal ends always justify the means.
Ok im with you so far.
The question is who represents the highest levels of fanticism. Worldwide, muslims are pretty devoted nuts.
I dont know about that. Christian fundamentalists are pretty nuts too. And from a Muslim's perspective Americans must be pretty nuts. Isn't the whole point of Iraq that the ends justify the means? Since the means arent exactly pretty (death and violence for 100s of thousands including 2,000 Americans), the only thing to potentially justify the war are the ends - democracy, freedom, oil, whatever. Doesn't that make us just as fanatically devoted to our ideals?
Here in the states the left is our danger. The same moronic fanaticism that drives muslim protests over cartoons provides the fuel for all these leftist nutjobs parading about the streets for this or that cause.
Ok now i have completely lost you. How the hell does a protest hurt some anyone? And if there is no harm done, where's the danger in a protest? How on earth is the left dangerous? Passive, and fairly limited protests relative to most of history, don't hurt anyone. No harm. No danger. Would "this or that cause" be referring to civil rights?
If the leftists cant do anyting to the rest of America without being elected to office, the only really "danger" to anyone would come if they were democratically elected. So the "danger" is that the leftists may one day represent the majority opinion - something most of us don't find dangerous b/c they wont get a majority unless we want them to. Do you have a problem with democracy?
You can't get near the same participation or fanaticism from liberty loving rightists. Besides the fact that it's against their principles to try and force their ideals on others (that's what protest are really all about), most just don't espouse that much hate for people of differing viewpoints.
Umm.. how is a protest forcing your ideal on others? All a protest does is express your viewpoint. Sitting in a "whites only" restaurant doesnt force anyone to serve you, or even let you sit there. They can still refuse to serve you, and through you out. If done properly, a protest creates sympathy and is persuasive. If done improperly, it just creates a backlash. But it cant force anybody to act or believe differently.
And where do you get off pretending righ-wingers dont hate people? Have you ever listened/watched a right wing talk show? If name calling, jeering, etc. aren't expressions of hate then I dont know what is.
Many of the recent shootouts with right wingers have been because they want to be left the fuck alone, an honorable request in my book.
A shootout isnt synonomous with a request in my dictionary. What dictionary are you using?
58 - Baronius
Muslim - I think you want to have an honest discussion.
You say that Europe will become Muslim, because Islam is the truth. I'm a Catholic, and I don't agree. I'm not Muslim. The idea of Islam taking Europe offends me.
I'm sure the idea of Judaism taking Palestine offends you. I'd love to see the Phillipines become 100% Catholic, and that bothers you too, no doubt.
Why should we pretend that our beliefs don't offend each other? I may respect your religion, and I hope you respect mine, but they aren't the same. I will always believe that you're wrong, as you may always believe that I'm wrong. Our disagreement shouldn't surprise either of us.
I hope that you'll reply. I think this could be an interesting discussion.
59 - Baronius
Silas and Red - That's an interesting question, whose genocides have been bigger? In the last hundred years it's been no contest. Atheistic regimes have a far higher body count in terms of genocide.
The term "genocide" was coined in the 1940's. Before that the records are tough to trace, and there is no official body which designates historical genocides (as far as I know). I've researched the question of whether religion is to blame for most of the war deaths in history, and I figure that it was maybe 50/50 up until 1789. Since then, the nonreligious wars have dominated, and these recent wars have been the costliest. It's up to you to translate that into genocide numbers.
I do think it's relevent that, up through the Roman Empire, there was no such thing as denying or undercounting slaughter. Kings would boast about the number of innocents killed. A particularly successful extermination of an enemy would call for an obelisk and maybe a poem. With the advent of Christianity came a sense of shame about genocide.
60 - Richard Brodie
Ruvy says:
Sometimes, you do have to clean the filth out.
So then why did you start out calling the Pope and "ugly dude"
If his remarks and leadership succeed in preventing Europe from making the same kind of mistake "Joshua and his immediate successors" made, and he gives the needed stimulus towards cleansing the Muslim filth out of Britain, France, Sweden, Germany, Italy, etc., we will have him to thank for preventing a Muslim takeover in that part of the world, that would be a prelude to the extinguishment of Western Civilization.
As a non-Catholic Christian, I heartily applaud the Pope's remarks. If only Oriana Fallaci could have lived to have heard them!
61 - Jerry
PETI, get real! How many Christian fundamentalists are going around with blast- packs. Call 'em nuts if you want, but your nuts if you think they are any real threat. "Accept Jesus or your going to Hell" or "Convert to Islam or your going to Hell, and I'll help Allah send you there right now". C'mon, engage your Ivy League educated brain!
62 - nugget
redtard and Jerry of course score big points.
It's exceedingly retarded to compare "extremist" christians to the Imams who preach that Israel and the US should be obliterated.
Shark, if there wasn't a comment policy specifically forbidding me to call you the biggest fucking idiot on planet earth, I would.
63 - bugsey
I demand BOTH apology and RESTITUTION for the recent crimes :
1. The murderous blatant killing of innocents at the World Trade Center and those innocents in those 4 planes "used" as "human weapons".
2. I demand an apology from all Muslims on the killing of Martin Burnham, Christian missionary and martyr and the taking of his wife Gracia as a hostage for more than a year.
3. I demand an apology for the wickedness of any faith that demands that women be mistreated and be deprived of simply showing her face! I demand that women have the right to an education! I demand that women be respected equal to men!
4. I demand that clerico-fascists not be allowed in this century to prosecute others of any other faith!
5. I demand the right to live in peace and security despite my being a Christian without fanatic weirdos in the street burning effigies and buildings.
6. I DEMAND AN ASYLUM FOR THESE TYPES OF PEOPLE THAT THEIR MENTAL HEALTH MAY BE EXAMINED!
64 - pleasexcusetheinterruption12
Well aren't we the nation of victimhood? You all think there's something noble and honorable about playing the victim? There's not. Noble and honorable is being the victim and sucking it up.
RE Jerry #61: I didn't say any christians were going around with blast-packs. I said that the war in Iraq is fanaticism on behalf of a judeo-christian government. If the definition of fanaticism is as Redtard puts it - extreme devotion to an ideal such that the ends justify the means - then war in Iraq is just as fanatic as terrorists. As I pointed out, the ends (democracy, freedom, oil, security, or whatever) justify the means (100s of thousands of deaths) in Bush's opinion. This precisely fits Redtard's definition of a fanatic. Tell me where that is "unrealistic." This time try not to put words in my mouth.
RE Nugget #62:
It's exceedingly retarded to compare "extremist" christians to the Imams who preach that Israel and the US should be obliterated.
Congratulations, you also have put more words in my moth. I did not compare fanatic christians to the Islams who preach Isreal and the U.S. should be obliterated. Why the fuck are you putting words in my mouth? I said the current administration's war is MORE fanatic than MUSLIMS. Note: I said muslims in general. Muslims and those "who preach Isreal and the U.S. should be obliterated" are NOT SYNONYMOUS.
So shark is this the right-wing liberty loving unhateful rhetoric you were talking about: "Shark, if there wasn't a comment policy specifically forbidding me to call you the biggest fucking idiot on planet earth, I would."
??? That seems pretty hateful to me :(.
65 - Michael J. West
ATHEIST LEADERS HAVE COMMITTED THE GREATEST GENOCIDES IN HUMAN HISTORY
True. Absolutely true. At least for the top two. The greatest genocide in human history is the Chinese Cultural Revolution. Forty-nine million killed by Mao tse-Tung, an atheist. Second, Stalinist purges. Approximately 13 million.
Then comes Hitler, who believed in God. And what about those genocidists we've all heard so much about lately, bin Laden and Hussein? Not atheists, either.
Figure it out, folks. It ain't what you believe. Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Pagans, secularists, atheists, and nihilists all have vast amounts of blood on their hands. Let's stop pretending that any one belief system, or lack thereof, is more guilty than any other.
I have what I consider a universal solution that doesn't involve anybody changing their mind or their faith or what-have-you. Ready? Here it is.
No matter what your religious beliefs, or lack of religious beliefs, may be...SHUT THE FUCK UP AND KEEP THEM TO YOURSELF.
66 - bugsey
Hey STM, have you got a website... I like yah already!
67 - pleasexcusetheinterruption12
That should have read "So Redtard is this the right-wing..." instead of "So Shark.."
Re #63 bugsey:
What's your problem buddy? You come on this site to demand apologies from entire religious ideologies? Do you just enjoy the feeling of victimhood or something? I mean look at the crap you are writing...
2. I demand an apology from all Muslims on the killing of Martin Burnham, Christian missionary and martyr and the taking of his wife Gracia as a hostage for more than a year.
I happen to know several muslims. Would you like me to give them your adress so they can express mail this apology to you ASAP? You'll have to explain to them who Martin Burnham is because I'm sure they have never heard of him. That being so, Im sure they would gladly write you an eloquent apology for whatever part they played in taking him hostage. Perhaps they could start a chain-mail thing to get their friends to apologise too. Do you have storage space for 1+ billion letters? Or would you prefer they all just put their signature on one letter 20 miles long?
68 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Richard,
I don't think Ratzinger is an ugly dude because he will be calling for a genocide of Moslems in Europe, though the "Holy" See will do it in the nicest way it knows how. I will note for you that the killing of 31 kings in Canaan and the destruction of all the people living therein was because G-d (the Entity referred to by Shark as a "Wrathful Landlord") wanted these people vomited out of the Land (Leviticus 18:25). This was merely a few thousand. Had Joshua and his successors done the job properly, it would have only been a few thousand more.
NOW, there will be millions of deaths.
But let's get back to Ratzinger. On his agenda is also the takeover of Mount Zion by the Vatican. Behind the scenes, he is working with other leaders of the EU to bring about an end to the State of Israel. He wants us out of what he regards the rightful property of the Catholic Church. And he wants the next pope to be crowned in Jerusalem. I'm working on the information for an article on that now.
That's why he is an ugly dude...
69 - pleasexcusetheinterruption12
I mean seriously, get over it.
70 - Matthew T. Sussman
Michael, I will shut up when you accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior.
71 - pleasexcusetheinterruption12
Why dont you and STM go play with yourselves in the corner. Honestly, your patting him on the back is sickening. And why would you want to go read more stuff you agree with? What's the point of that? To make you feel smart and reassure you you were right all along?
72 - pleasexcusetheinterruption12
^ that was adressed at bugsey.
73 - bugsey
That should have read "So Redtard is this the right-wing..." instead of "So Shark.."
Re #63 bugsey:
What's your problem buddy? You come on this site to demand apologies from entire religious ideologies? Do you just enjoy the feeling of victimhood or something? I mean look at the crap you are writing...
Reply : Heck, I already write for this site and it prolly ain't crap or they wouldn't have let me (LOL)!
Nope, not really. I demand apologies for crimes committed by Islam!
If you are ignorant, do read "In the Presence of my Enemies" by Gracia Burnham. Or google it ! Amazon would love you to buy her book. SURE, you can give them YOUR address and then forward their love letters to me since they seem to be more of your buddies! mwahhhahahahhahahaa!
74 - pleasexcusetheinterruption12
Ideologies dont commit crimes. People do. It's a pretty basic point. And I am amazed you couldn't see that from the rest of my post. Do I have to spell it out for you?
75 - bugsey
I pat STM again :) heck whoever he is, he's my kinda guy! DOES that offend you? Is that against yer religion or somethin???? (kisses to STM!!! ) Get some Taliban woman to "pat" you and be happy!