Here we go again with another outburst from the Religion of Perpetual Outrage. Muslims worldwide are angry again, this time at (Can you guess who? Drum roll, please. . .) the Pope!
Muslims are angry over some remarks made by Pope Benedict XVI during a lecture at a German university. The Vatican later said that the Pope did not intend the remarks to be offensive, but you know how that goes. Anyway, here are some excerpts from the speech. As a sort of amusing exercise, see if you can pick out the parts that, once again, have Muslims worldwide having conniption fits.
I was reminded of all this recently, when I read... of part of the dialogue carried on - perhaps in 1391 in the winter barracks near Ankara - by the erudite Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Paleologus and an educated Persian on the subject of Christianity and Islam, and the truth of both.In the seventh conversation...the emperor touches on the theme of the holy war. Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the "Book" and the "infidels", he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general, saying: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."
The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. "God," he says, "is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats."
Sounds kinda like the Pope was basically saying that violent jihad might not be a particularly good way to spread religious faith. What could be more infuriating than that, especially coming from a pointy-headed chief infidel? As my grandmother used to say, it's enough to make an imam—er, I mean, a preacher—cuss.
Reaction from various imams, clerics and other Islamic authority figures continues to pour in now. Here are a few choice comments:
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Baronius
This story makes so little sense. OF COURSE the Pope doesn't agree with Islam! Is that supposed to be news? But you've got to love Benedict. He's the only non-Muslim in the world who actually believes his religion is right.
2 - Rohan Venkat
Heh, but the Pope must've been pretty dumb to say that, if he didn't realise what was going to happen, which clearly he didn't from all those later apologies.
Stupid Pope.
3 - STM
The big problem of course is that he's largely telling the truth. It happened during the period he was quoting, at the time of the Byzantine Empire(which eventually fell to the Muslim Turks, all the churches of Constantinople - now Istanbul - being turned into mosques after a series of bloody battles, wholesale persecution of Jews and Christians and millions of forced conversions to Islam) ... a lot of ordinary muslims don't like to hear that stuff, but it's the truth. The Pope's just repeating history.
Why should we rewrite it? What would be next .... holocaust revisionism officially sanctioned by the Church?
4 - Dave in Saudi
The trouble is that there is no religious education in Islam except of Islam. So appreciation of other viewpoints or cultural leanings is completely absent. It is impossible to discuss theology with a Muslim. I know, I have tried. The reason? Because in the end they are taught that any opinion differing from theirs is wrong whilst you must not and cannot hold the same opinion on Islam. That would be intolerance!
The automatic backlash that comes from Muslims worldwide is deliberately orchestrated by malcontents who want to start a fight and enjoy a state of perpetual victimhood.
Too many spend too much time trying to appease Islam without coming right out with what they actually think. Muslims are not shy to say EXACTLY what they think.
5 - SHARK
1) GregStrange: "...Here we go again with another outburst from the Religion of Perpetual Outrage. Muslims worldwide are angry again..."
Just a tad ironic -- coming the same week that the Christoid Right went ape-shit over Rosie O'Donnell.
2) The Emporer: "...God is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably is contrary to God's nature."
Just a tad ironic -- given the gory details from that Wrathful Landlord in the Book of *Deuteronomy.
*Deuteronomy 20: 16-17
"16: But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
17: But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded..."
6 - Christopher Rose
I'm really getting sick and tired of one mad religious cult after another having these pathetic little rows about which strand of their totally insane rhetoric is the right one - and the smug sense of moral superiority they display whilst doing it.
Judaism, Christianity and Islam are crimes against both humanity and any genuine sense of awe or spirituality. A plague on all your houses!
7 - A. Common Man
Please could we hear less about what the Muslims like and dislike. Doubtlessly there are a majority who fear their God and honour their prophet. However if those we hear of crash planes into the twin towers, or seemingly kill others Muslims in Iraq, and cut peoples hands off or behead them or flog others including that British Nurse,or explode Bombs in London in the name of their Prophet, or demonstrate re. death to this that and the other. Or fail to educate their menfolk let alone their women folk etc. The only respect they will receive is attributable to political correctness.
Do not complain if we 'Infidels' now have little respect for you. The UK.has allowed Mosques to be built in central locations such as Regents Park and Edinburgh, welcomes Muslims in Public Office as members of both Houses of Parliament,as Mayors and Councillors,The Police, and the Armed Forces.
However please intergrate with us, because we have no intention of integrating on your terms. If Pope Benedict retracts what he recently quoted , he would best shut up shop.
8 - SHARK
More Irony:
The head of the Catholic Church -- recently somewhat renowned for harboring professional pederasts -- used to be named "RAT ZINGER".
Coincidence?
I think not.
9 - SHARK
And the change to "Benedict" [say it aloud] is even more disturbing.
10 - muslim
the pope is stupid , he supposed to read more about islam and prophet mohammed ( peace be upon him ) and he's not aloud to talk about him .
we ( muslims ) respect all the messengers ( mohammed , jesus ,adam ,mosis and all of them ) that god send them to us to beleive in one god . you don't like someone come and insult ur religion right !!!!!!!
and even us we don't like someone come and isult our religion and our prophet.so i think this pope should apologize to muslims all around the world .
11 - Victor Lana
Christians, Jews, Muslims and everyone else better lighten up and just live their lives in peace and love. I "think" that God is going to be much more interested in our good works in life than whether or not we took communion regularly, fasted during Ramadan, or marked every Friday night as sabbath.
12 - muslim
Islam, a religion of mercy, does not permit terrorism. In the Quran, God has said:
“God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers.” (Quran 60:8)
The Prophet Muhammad, may God praise him, used to prohibit soldiers from killing women and children,[1] and he would advise them: {...Do not betray, do not be excessive, do not kill a newborn child.}[2] And he also said: {Whoever has killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise, though its fragrance is found for a span of forty years.}[3]
Also, the Prophet Muhammad has forbidden punishment with fire.[4]
He once listed murder as the second of the major sins,[5] and he even warned that on the Day of Judgment, {The first cases to be adjudicated between people on the Day of Judgment will be those of bloodshed.[6]}[7]
Muslims are even encouraged to be kind to animals and are forbidden to hurt them. Once the Prophet Muhammad said: {A woman was punished because she imprisoned a cat until it died. On account of this, she was doomed to Hell. While she imprisoned it, she did not give the cat food or drink, nor did she free it to eat the insects of the earth.}[8]
He also said that a man gave a very thirsty dog a drink, so God forgave his sins for this action. The Prophet, may God praise him, was asked, “Messenger of God, are we rewarded for kindness towards animals?” He said: {There is a reward for kindness to every living animal or human.}[9]
Additionally, while taking the life of an animal for food, Muslims are commanded to do so in a manner that causes the least amount of fright and suffering possible. The Prophet Muhammad said: {When you slaughter an animal, do so in the best way. One should sharpen his knife to reduce the suffering of the animal.}[10]
In light of these and other Islamic texts, the act of inciting terror in the hearts of defenseless civilians, the wholesale destruction of buildings and properties, the bombing and maiming of innocent men, women, and children are all forbidden and detestable acts according to Islam and the Muslims. Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the vast majority have nothing to do with the violent events some have associated with Muslims. If an individual Muslim were to commit an act of terrorism, this person would be guilty of violating the laws of Islam.
13 - steve
I was happy to see that the pope acknowledges mohammed as a terrorist. A MAN that began his religion using fear and violence. it was about time one of our credible world leaders spoke out against that cult.
14 - STM
Muslim said in #10: "and even us we don't like someone come and insult our religion and our prophet.so i think this pope should apologize to muslims all around the world."
OK mate, here's what a lot of us think:
That senior muslim clerics should apologise to the rest of the world for:
a) a group of professed jihadist muslims acting in the name of Allah crashing planes into the WTC, a field in Pennsylvania and the Pentagon and killing 3000 people.
b) a group of young muslim men blowing up trains and killing hundreds during peak-hour in Madrid.
c) a group of young muslim men blowing up trains and the number 10 bus in central London, killing 70 people, including a young British muslim woman going to a new job, again during peak-hour, in London.
d) a group of muslim men letting off bombs in a crowded tourist area of Bali, killing 200 people, including 80 of my countrymen and women and my friend's 16-year-old daughter who was there on a birthday surfing trip with her dad. And then sneering about it in court.
e) plotting to bring down jets over the Pacific ocean and over America in two separate foiled incidents, one very recently
f) the succession of ongoing suicide/terror bombings around the world, aimed purely at death and destruction and all committed in the name of Islam - surely the average muslim finds this reprehensible
g) not standing up and condeming the evil among you and doing nothing much really worthwhile in the cause of genuine world peace.
h) getting priorities wrong: not condemning using world's best practise in the manfucture of bombs and bombvests but going berserk over a couple of stupid cartoons.
h) for not apologising in the first place.
i) not bestowing some of the peace that Islam is always bestowing upon Muhammad, Isa, Abraham and the rest of the prophets upon the rest of us.
Fair enough?
Fair dinkum ... we've all had enough, mate.
15 - muslim
thet people who killed innocent people in madrid,london and newyork are terror and they r killing people by the name of islam and god. thats wrong and they r not muslims as they said beacause islam said don't kill innocent people and islam is a peacefull religion .
16 - muslim
for the ones who don't no anything about islam:
What is Islam ?
Islam is not a new religion, but the same truth that God revealed through all His prophets to every people. For a fifth of the world's population, Islam is both a religion and a complete way of life. Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the majority have nothing to do with the extremely grave events which have come to be associated with their faith.
17 - Clavos
Well said, STM! (# 14)
18 - STM
Muslim said in #16: "Islam is not a new religion, but the same truth that God revealed through all His prophets to every people. For a fifth of the world's population, Islam is both a religion and a complete way of life. Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the majority have nothing to do with the extremely grave events which have come to be associated with their faith."
Then for heaven's sake, whu can't the Ummah and the Ulemma'a stand up and condemn these scum who are killing innocent people in the name of your religion.
Why do you think we're a bit angry, mate?
On the one hand, it's about peace, yet on the other, according to some who claim to be Muslims, it's about blowing the living sh.t out of us.
So I'll just ask, will the real Islam please stand up?
19 - Clavos
muslim is not expressing his own thoughts--he's obviously cutting and pasting something written by another.
20 - STM
Clavos said in #19: "muslim is not expressing his own thoughts--he's obviously cutting and pasting something written by another."
Yes, he's regurgitating the same tired old bullsh.t ... religion of peace, mercy, kindness and what have you.
Especially when you're not getting the living sh.t blown out of you.
My mate had the awful experience of watching while the men who organised the killing of his beautiful 16-year-old daughter (who used to walk around the beach here in Sydney with a perpetual smile and flowers tucked behind her ear) and 200 others sat smirking in a court room in Denpasar, yelling out God is Great and Death to Infidels and raising their fists in the air.
Scum. It's about time for us to just treat these mugs with the contempt they deserve (and not neccessarily you, Muslim, you obviously believe in what you're saying. Problem is, you've got your bloody priorities wrong).
The one good thing about religious fanatic suicide bombers is that if they get into it young enough, they can't contribute to Earth's gene pool.
21 - muslim
after 10 years the european countries will be a muslim countries .(because it's truth religion )
And the end of the world muslims will be strong and they will fihgt israil peoples and we will have palestine back .
the terror killed muslims people and christian people in arabs countries not only in west countries
22 - akbar
The pope has every right to criticise islam. you never see any islamic leaders condemning such attacks...I completely agree with you. islam is a violent religion...not peaceful at all whatsoever. they place their foreheads to the floor towards the east awaiting order to act as mujadeen.
23 - muslim
and in the end of the world muslims will be strong and we will fight israil people and we will have palestine back.
24 - Manny Hernandez
I am not muslim. I was born into the Catholic church. But comments and attitudes like the one displayed by this Pope in these not-so-innocent remarks have made me step further and further away from the Church where I grew up over time.
If all he wanted to say is that faith and violence are incompatible, and if he is truly about union among religions (which he hasn't been since day one), he could have skipped this quote: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." In quoting this, essentially he is agreeing with this point of view... and that, coming from this man, is beyond dissapointing.
While I can't agree with religious violence, I cannot be OK disrespectuful remarks about other religions from the head of the largest church in the Western World. He's got too many brilliant people surrounding him that can identify weak spots in things he is going to say, to now try to spin it a different way and pretend he didn't mean what he said.
I can only honestly hope that this doesn't turn into a deeper division between extreme religious groups (which at the end are the pockets of violence in all religions), but I have a hard time imagining it will not.
25 - STM
I said in #20: "It's about time for us to just treat these mugs with the contempt they deserve (and not neccessarily you, Muslim, you obviously believe in what you're saying. Problem is, you've got your bloody priorities wrong).
Muslim said in #21: "after 10 years the european countries will be a muslim countries .(because it's truth religion )
And the end of the world muslims will be strong and they will fihgt israil peoples and we will have palestine back .
the terror killed muslims people and christian people in arabs countries not only in west countries."
Scratch my earlier (undeservedly generous) remark about you on the strength of this gibber ...
You will never be taking over my country old boy ... read NEVER. Don't kid yourselves about any of this stuff. It ain't going to happen because none of us want to go back an 8th-century feudal way of life.
Interestingly though, if we were all Muslims, would we in the "European countries" still have the better standard of living, learning, etc, and most of the money, and industry, which I suspect is where all the anger really comes from?
People would still be blowing us up, probably, for not being good enough muslims.