Media bias is a fact of life. The political slant of newspapers and networks draws a good part of their audience.
In a highly publicized $100 million lawsuit against her former employers at NewsCorp, Judith Regan has made various seemingly paranoid claims about a conspiracy against her at the publishing giant. The accusations seem to center on her claim that NewsCorp has a political alliance with Rudy Giuliani and has attempted to discredit her so that she can't harm Giuliani through the use of information obtained through her former relationship with Giuliani associate and former NYPD Chief Bernard Kerik.…
Article comments
26 - troll
Stan - here's to you and yours...I trust that your daughter is doing well
Dave - perhaps your target shouldn't be unrealistic attitudes towards bias but rather government 'ownership' and control of the 'airwaves'
27 - Clavos
"Bottom line, the guy sells newspapers."
Quoted for Truth.
I go with Doc on this one, Stan. Murdoch put Fox on its present course because that's what SELLS here these days.
And the proof is in the pudding: much to the lefties' chagrin, Fox is top amongst cable outlets in most "news" categories.
Murdoch read the audience well, and it's paying off big time for him.
I would say he's first and foremost an astute and canny businessman who chose journalism as his field in which to excel. And excel he has.
Mind you, if this sounds like censure, I mean no such thing. On the contrary, he gets props (IMO) for doing what he does so well.
28 - Zedd
Clav
Are you saying that above all else, making money is most honorable to you?
29 - Zedd
STM
News is news, and no matter what spin is put on it, ultimately it's up to us to decide whether we take any notice of it.
However, if the journalists are the people who are trained to get the news for us then where do we get the information to judge the correctness of their reports if all reports may or may not be worthwhile. Journalism is a vocation and not an art form. Like cashiers or doctors or garbageman, we expect that they will do their job well. If they don't, we as a society suffer. We are dumber and less equipped to make good discussions or even evolve adequately as a society. George Bush is no anomaly, he is a reflection of what we have become.
30 - Clavos
I don't see the phrase "above all else" anywhere in my post, Zedd.
I said Murdoch does what he does better than almost all (maybe all) of his competitors, which is an accomplishment most people never attain.
He's a businessman who does well in his chosen business.
That's admirable, yes.
Don't read too much into it, Zedd.
31 - handyguy
The problem is imprecisely described as news bias.
Instead, it's when opinion is treated as news and news treated as opinion that destructive distortions appear. [The NY Times and the Wall St Journal do a pretty clear-cut, admirable job of keeping pure opinion on the editorial pages, and trying for an objective, even-handed approach to reporting on other pages. Now that Murdoch owns the Journal, will this good practice continue?]
The other problem is that of distortions being repeated and amplified until they become accepted as facts or 'the truth.'
Virtually every rightist on here [and elsewhere] claims an inherent leftward bias in the 'MSM.' Virtually everyone left of these loud voices think that's nonsense, and in fact that it's rightists who distort the news and the public's perception of the news.
They can't both be right, but maybe they're not both completely wrong. I'm glad there are watchdog sites [Media Matters and FAIR.org on the left, Accuracy in Media and Media Research Center on the right, and many, many others]. Rather than attacking these sites as partisan [yes, of course they are], we should use them to keep ourselves informed of the many, many times [especially in an election year] that each side will overstep the bounds of fairness.
I'm glad there are starting to be some liberal loudmouths on TV and radio to counterbalance what used to be primarily a Republican medium [and Limbaugh and Hannity et al still dominate the shouting-match type programs]. Listening to either one for very long can give you a headache. But I make it a point to sample both sides...it helps me form my own opinions more clearly.
It's easy to yell and call people names. Considerably harder to actually think about what's going on in the world and admit how complex many issues are, how little one actually knows.
32 - Baronius
Dave, since imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, I thank you. This article is a nice fleshing-out of my comment #36 on the Obama/Fox News discussion, posted less than a week ago:
Zedd - Pot, I'd like you to meet kettle. Kettle, this is pot.
This article postulates that the right-wing press is going after liberals. You agree. But you totally dismiss the idea that the left-wing press goes after conservatives.
The press goes after its enemies. Read up about Jefferson and Adams. Jefferson took his feud with Adams to the press, and destroyed the man politically. Alex tries to depict press prejudice as a new thing, but it's historically more common than impartiality. There were pro- and anti- newspapers on the subjects of independence, abolition, prohibition, and universal suffrage. Even the idea that reporting should be unbiased is fairly new. So is the idea that a person can read the paper uncritically.
You match my comment point by point, and use some of the same examples.
33 - moonraven
The problem comes down to LYING about bias.
Fox News claims to be balanced.
The majority of folks in the US are so ignorant that they believe anything they see or hear on t.v.
You people need to be protected from yourselves.
34 - Dan Miller
Moonraven wrote in #33,
"The majority of folks in the US are so ignorant that they believe anything they see or hear on t.v.
You people need to be protected from yourselves."
This seems to be a paraphrase of "the true test of another person's intelligence is whether he agrees with me."
We should all be thankful, as we approach Thanksgiving, that there are so many intelligent people available to keep the rest of us out of trouble. God fearing people should give thanks to Him (or Her or It) for this bounty.
Seriously, though, many people tend to agree with what they see or (occasionally) read so long as it is consistent with their views. If not, it is "STUPID."
Good grief.
35 - moonraven
This seems to be a paraphrase of "the true test of another person's intelligence is whether he agrees with me."
Hardly.
It is a comment that you folks wouldn't know a hawk from a handsaw if your life depended on it--because you have been brainwashed (what little brain you had is now DEAD).
The true test of a person's intelligence is whether he or she has the SKILL to detect PROPAGANDA and LIES.
[Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]
36 - Dave Nalle
Virtually every rightist on here [and elsewhere] claims an inherent leftward bias in the 'MSM.' Virtually everyone left of these loud voices think that's nonsense, and in fact that it's rightists who distort the news and the public's perception of the news.
Just for the record, I don't hold that position and I know a number of other people of the 'rational right' who share my opinion that the main bias of the media is towards finding a market niche and making money, regardless of political affiliation.
The evidence that most reporters and news producers are left-leaning is pretty overwhelming, but I don't think that their personal political views outweigh the profit-motivation of network management.
Dave
37 - Zedd
Dan,
I find it problematic that you dismiss everyone that is making a critique of our culture in this instance as being from the other side.
Perhaps this is your form of escape. Some drink, others bury their heads in the sand and others pretend to face issues head on by simply pooh poohing everything that they find unsettling. By responding to the rhetoric, they feel as if they have engaged, when they really haven't.
You accused me earlier of quelching the discourse. It would seem to me that it is you who is shutting the conversation down by going back to 'them vs us' every time a critique is offered.
If you would like to get good dialogue and debate going, ask questions where you are uncertain. If you don't know what someone means by "lying about bias" or "stupid" or "ignorant", ask for more information. The manner in which you respond suggests that you think you know what is meant by those phrases, why they are being said and YOU get to decide their relevance... In my case you were way off about your assumptions but arrogantly admonished me...
Slow your role there Socrates. There is a method to engaging in good dialogue and understanding.
38 - Dan Miller
In re #35
Dear me. Such anger toward poor Mr. Nalle.
Bertrand Russell wrote, many years ago, that people become most angry and upset when the views about which they have doubts are challenged. For example, if someone were to tell me that 2 + 2 = 7, I would feel sorry for the poor uneducated lunatic. I KNOW that 2 + 2 = 5 (or whatever) and would not become angry. But if someone were to assert a position contrary to one I strongly hold, but concerning which I harbor doubts, I would become upset.
Think about it.
39 - Martin Lav
Dan, I think MoonRaven is in love with Dave Nalle, that's why you see so much protestation from her about anything he says. She has even professed hatred towards that fine looking actor that Dave loves to compare himself to, Robert Vaughn.
It's a pity she didn't go to Vegas to meet up with him at the bloggers convention...
40 - moonraven
I do not go Anywhere TO MEET UP WITH FATUOUS GRINGOS FROM THE 2ND GRADE OF PRIMARY SCHOOL who spend therir llives supporting the murder of Palestinians.
41 - Martin Lav
see told ya....
42 - Dan Miller
Zedd,
I am at a bit of a loss to know which of my posts offended you. If you will let me know, I will try to respond.
I don't think that the U.S. culture is perfect -- far from it. In fact, I think it has pretty much become a pig's breakfast. With more than three hundred million people in the U.S., an informed democracy has substantially ceased to exist. With that many people, political discourse is reduced to ten second sound bites or, even worse, to bumper sticker slogans. We quite possibly have different views on this, and even if we agree, we quite possibly have different views as to the causes.
My wife and I are "ex pats" and live on thirteen acres a rural area up in the mountains in the Republic of Panama (population roughly three million, for the whole country), with our nine horses, five dogs, three cats and a bunch of chickens and ducks. Things are not perfect here, but at least political correctness has not surfaced (fat people are not offended by being nicknamed "gordo", for example) and people generally expect to work hard for their wages. Medical care, even for poor folks, is generally better than in the U.S. For "gringos," who can afford about $100.00 per month per couple for medical insurance, it is exceptionally good -- far better than in the U.S. Typically, physicians' business cards reveal not only their office phone numbers, but their cell phone and home phone numbers. This may be related to the fact that malpractice litigation is, for practical purposes, unknown here. Panama is, unfortunately, becoming a haven for "medical tourism," which may well raise costs for those of us who live here.
Politics is by and large local, and elected officials can be seen out with picks and shovels fixing roads before and AFTER elections. They know what their constituents need, and try to get elected and re-elected by virtue of what they do to meet those needs. Is there corruption here? Of course there is. Is there more per capita than in the U.S? I don't know, but I doubt it. Living here has been quite an eye-opener. In many respects, it resembles what I remember from the 1950's when I was a kid in the U.S.
I must admit that we do not have television, and hence are not privileged to keep up with the machinations of Fox et al. We do have internet, and I devote an hour or more per day reading the news via the internet. There is quite a lot of variety available, and I try to keep up with both the left and right perspectives of what is going on.
Again, please let me know what offended you and I will try to respond.
Dan
43 - RJ
Great article, Dave. I see little a rational person could disagree with here. (Of course, I haven't checked, but I'm guessing that a large portion of the 40+ comments above mine are FoxNews-bashing tirades from leftists who believe that Chris Matthews and the NYT are objective and non-partisan...)
44 - Zedd
Dan
I wasn't offended. I read you as being dismissive. I enjoy good dialog and you appear to have an interesting perspective, however you didn't seem to want to entertain any criticism of what we have. Fox is not for Republicans it is all of ours. What they do affects all of us.
I don't find an INTENTIONAL bent to be a good thing. What they are saying is that they will not report news but will support already existing ideas. That is dangerous for our progress and evolution.
What is interesting is that the entire LIBERAL MEDIA campaign was design to give the Republicans less "answer-ability" as they were unfolding their contract with America. That contract was unattainable and they didn't want any questions so they circumvented the attacks by creating the phantom monster, The Liberal Media. It was a strategy and that is all it was. They started over highlighting minute occurrences and making them seem huge and a demonstration of just how liberal the media had become. It was all a rouse and many on the right fell for it. Gingrich and the Regan machine were brilliant. However, the result is a dummied down media. When the war was ensuing the media was afraid to respond adequately lest they be labeled bias or god forbid, unpatriotic (whatever that is) so they didn't ask real questions. We ended up not getting any critical dialog taking place about this war and now hundreds of thousands of people are dead and we are in a more shaky place militarily, economically, and clout-wise than we've been in 50yrs.
You are not on this side but if you saw who we are touting as heros you would weep. Look up Puffy...
45 - Dan Miller
Zedd,
You wrote,
"I wasn't offended. I read you as being dismissive. I enjoy good dialog and you appear to have an interesting perspective, however you didn't seem to want to entertain any criticism of what we have."
I certainly didn't intend to be dismissive, and if you will read my most recent post again you will find that I am very critical of "what we have." The phrase "pig's breakfast" is hardly laudatory. The fact that I no longer live in the U.S. should suggest that I feel rather strongly about this. I am very concerned for the U.S., and as things now stand I have no desire to return. That is rather sad, but that's the way it is.
I haven't the foggiest notion who "Puffy" might be. I have heard of the various "pop tarts" who seem to dominate the news, and find that distressing. Have they become our heroes? As to the "Liberal bias," even the recent study released by Harvard suggests that it exists. Of course, as a Yale graduate (1963), I don't put that much stock in Harvard studies, but what the heck, it seems rather on point.
My guess is that we agree more than we disagree, even though we have different perspectives. Perhaps someday over a glass or two of good Panamanian rum we could have an informative discussion.
Dan
46 - moonraven
Only an unredeemable gringo would think that rum increases the quality of a discussion!
By Dave's logic:
Corruption is everywhere, so who cares? Let's foment it!
[Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]
47 - moonraven
And then there's: Violence is a fact of life. Who cares? Let's foment it.
There is a long list of other atrocious behaviors that Nalle would like to foment, but I will let him post it.
48 - REMF
"I'm guessing that a large portion of the 40+ comments above mine are FoxNews-bashing tirades from leftists who believe that Chris Matthews and the NYT are objective and non-partisan"
- RJ
And as a rightist who believes Rush Limbaugh has those traits Elliott, your point is...?
49 - Dave Nalle
MR. you have a real talent for reducing complex ideas to trivial nonsense.
Dave
50 - moonraven
Wrong as usual, Nalle.
There is nothing complex--even remotely so--about your ideas.
[Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]
51 - Martin Lav
Speaking of fiber you should really add some to your diet as it may help ease the tension you feel
52 - Dan Miller
Isn't it a shame how a few people can turn an otherwise interesting discussion into an elementary school food fight?
Dan
53 - Dave Nalle
Dan, it seems to only take one person with too much time on her hands who has a self-admitted objective of destroying productive discussion on this site.
Dave
54 - moonraven
Wrong again, Nalle: YOU refuse to allow any difference of opinion to pass uninsulted. I am only here to hold up a mirror to the obnoxious shit that goes down here--and which HAS gone down here since I first posted sometime in September of last year.
[Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]
55 - moonraven
By the way--nice move at distracting folks from your calling for increased media violence, increase violence, increased corruption, pollution and all those other nasties--since they are a fact of life anyway.
56 - moonraven
And my final comment on this thread todsay:
YOU have too much time on your hands.
I am multi-tasking, as am writing an article for presentation on US-sponsored terrorism in Latin America.
57 - RJ
"I am multi-tasking, as am writing an article for presentation on US-sponsored terrorism in Latin America."
And we are certain that it will be a serious, objective analysis...
58 - troll
power to the people alienboy slasher dude - and to hell with you and you ineffectual meddling
59 - Christopher Rose
I serve to live, troll.
60 - troll
xxoo
61 - moonraven
Well, this thread went right into the toilet when I left--complete with the closing big fart by troll.
Don't you people have jobs--or drugs to sell--or something?
62 - Dr Dreadful
Zedd #44:
I see where you're coming from but I think the dumbing down has happened mainly in the broadcast media, not the written. This is especially noticeable to me, having grown up with the BBC. It's akin to living in ancient Athens with Socrates as a teacher and suddenly having him replaced with a glazed-eyed, middle-aged gentleman reading My Pet Goat...
But newspapers in the US are still on the whole very good, and far less given to rhetorical spewing than some of their counterparts across the Atlantic. This even applies to local papers: these are often of far higher quality than British ones, which - in the three or four pages not devoted to ads or the latest doings of the Townswomen's Guild - often seem to be fixated on the notion that the town they serve is the crucible of a crime war.
And there's always PBS. Even though you've said before that you think that has been dumbed down too, it still has a great deal of quality programming (at least it does where I live).
Not to mention the internet, and places like this!
63 - troll
Mohawk huh - but for the Dutch white guys your people would have been disappeared centuries ago at the hands of neighboring tribes
your people have a long history of aggression (especially towards fellow 'native americans') not unlike what you demonstrate here towards most everyone
64 - moonraven
Brit humor, apparently....
65 - moonraven
I believe another way of phrasing what you said is that the Mohawks are known for being fierce warriors.
If you were literate, you would have been aware that Nancy posted that information on this site many moons ago.
If you don't want to be a target of aggression, clean up your act. Post some information about the topics instead of just stalking me like a lame dog after a bitch in heat.
66 - troll
I couldn't care less about being the target of your aggression...it is your stupid crap clogging these threads that concerns me: my message to you - if you want a flame war fine - I'll dedicate what little free time I have to the project
if not clean up your act
67 - moonraven
I am not taking orders from you, troll.
I will post whatever I damn please.
Flame away, kamikaze kid. It's your funeral.
Since I am busy writing in another window, of course you will have to excuse me when I do not respond any further to your abuse.
68 - troll
..I await your next filthy attack Mohawk
69 - Zedd
Doc,
I agree with you.
I had to stop the NY Times (it got too expensive) now that its free on-line I'll resume....
However from 911-the war, even they were being irrational. They were paralyzed because they didn't want to seem unAmerican (who knows what that is) or left leaning.
I was weaned on the BBC (on radio). When we came here the media was quite critical and very aggressive. This was right before Watergate. Even though they weren't versed on international matters, they got us the news. They were forced to mellow down because of a huge campaign which to some of us (I was a child) was obvious.
Americans have a tendency to get caught up. If you spin it enough it becomes reality. I think its because of the disjointed history and the fact that there is no one foundation. Many come and reinvent themselves here and have no accountability; nothing to hold you accountable for the truth of who you are. Rationale and reality can always be created. You can have slaves and claim to support liberty and everyone buys it. Who else could have invented Hollywood.