Tom Ridge? Joe Lieberman? Is McCain hanging with the wrong crowd or is it all a brilliant strategy of misdirection?
As the two major party presidential choices get closer to announcing their Vice Presidential selections, John McCain is coming under a lot of fire from various quarters about his possible choices and allegiances. McCain has always been suspected of being less conservative than his record would indicate, and recent actions have made the far right and religious conservatives increasingly nervous about his intentions.…
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— go to most recent comments26 - Arch Conservative
If MI is 15% black that a much higher percentage than NH. If I'm not mistaken we're the whitest state in the nation.
Not because of that but I think McCain will win NH, especially if he picks Romney.
if McCain was smart, which he's not but some of his handlers may be, they would pick Romney and have him fly back and forth between MI, CO, NH, and NV from now until Nov 4 and do nothing but tear into Obama.
27 - Clavos
Points taken RJ.
Just remember that the unemployed are blue collar, for the most part, and they're usually Dems.
As to Kwame: isn't Detroit, like Atlanta, majority AA? Don't know how the AAs will react, but down here, a Latino mayor was indicted, tried, convicted and jailed a few years back. As soon as he got out, he ran again and was elected.
28 - RJ Elliott
"If MI is 15% black that a much higher percentage than NH. If I'm not mistaken we're the whitest state in the nation."
Well, yeah, 15% of a lot higher percentage than the 2% up in NH. I'm just saying that outside of the Detroit area, Michigan is pretty much lily-White. But since Detroit is such a major metropolitan area, and so heavily-Black, it kinda distorts the statewide demographic numbers.
"Not because of that but I think McCain will win NH, especially if he picks Romney."
Romney could help there, too. But NH should be close either way. And it's only 4 Electoral Votes...although 4 could make the margin of victory/defeat in this election!
"if McCain was smart, which he's not but some of his handlers may be, they would pick Romney and have him fly back and forth between MI, CO, NH, and NV from now until Nov 4 and do nothing but tear into Obama."
Yes, Romney would be best used in places like Michigan, Nevada, New Hampshire, Colorado, and maybe even Massachusetts (although that's obviously a long-shot).
29 - RJ Elliott
"As to Kwame: isn't Detroit, like Atlanta, majority AA?"
Hugely. Like over 80%. Kwame is mostly unpopular in the suburbs of Detroit, which is the major swing-vote part of the state.
"Don't know how the AAs will react, but down here, a Latino mayor was indicted, tried, convicted and jailed a few years back. As soon as he got out, he ran again and was elected."
LOL. Reminds me of the career trajectory of Democrat Congressman Alcee Hastings...
30 - Dave Nalle
As I mentioned in my podcast last night, one of the things which made me feel somewhat positive about McCain is that when Obama went into Michigan and promised to save everyone's jobs and keep the factories open, McCain went there and told them the truth, that they needed to retrain and perhaps move and that what he would give them was opportunities to prepare for and find jobs in relevant, contemporary fields to replace the heavy industry jobs which were never coming back. That was the right thing to say, but I wonder if it will cost him votes.
People would rather hear the easy lie than the hard truth. It's what the success of the democrats is built on.
Dave
31 - RJ Elliott
"People would rather hear the easy lie than the hard truth. It's what the success of the democrats is built on."
Pretty much.
32 - RJ Elliott
Okay, watching CNN right now. Also checking out HuffPo. It looks like Joe Biden, Democrat Senator from Delaware, is the likely pick.
If true, I think this is a mistake for Obama. Biden is from the small Blue State of Delaware. He was a big-time loser in the Democrat Presidential Primaries this year. He's gaffe-prone. He has said many things highly critical of Obama, while praising McCain. He has a history of plagiarism. Did I mention he's gaffe-prone? And if picked, he merely serves to highlight Obama's complete lack of experience, or gravitas. (He's also pretty anti-gun.)
This choice is a loser. Frankly, as a Republican, I'm thrilled.
33 - RJ Elliott
The early Democrat spin on Biden as VP is the following:
- He's got gravitas
- He's brilliant
- He's experienced
- He's Catholic
- He's honest
- He's "poor" compared to McCain (an appeal to the working class)
- He's a master-debater
- He's tough
- The MSM likes him, so they'll ignore his gaffes and questionable past statements
Sorry, I'm still not seeing this as a brilliant choice. He might help hold Pennsylvania. That's about it, as far as I can see.
34 - RJ Elliott
Just brainstorming here...Obama appears to have picked a "safe" establishment White man as his running mate...doesn't this leave an opening for McCain to choose a woman? With Hillary still presumably seething from her narrow loss in the primaries, and many of her (especially female) supporters still lukewarm-at-best towards Obama, doesn't this give McCain a potential opportunity to close the gender gap?
Hmmm. Meg Whitman (CEO - EBAY) for Veep? Or is she too rich? (Net worth estimated at over a billion dollars.) Or Carly Fiorina (CEO - HP), who is a tad more telegenic?
Thoughts, comments?
35 - Dave Nalle
My hardcore democrat mother who worked on capitol hill for years says that Biden is an egomaniac and dumb as a post. For what that's worth.
Dave
36 - RJ Elliott
Okay, this is kinda stupid, but you'll probably be seeing more of it in the coming days:
OBAMA - BI(n la)DEN 2008!
37 - Clavos
OK, here goes:
FIORINA - Too controversial, bad news, nearly busted HP (the Compaq buy), is an establishment big business CEO with a not-so-hot track record; the Dems will make mince meat out of her. No political experience.
WHITMAN - Much better track record as executive, not well known to the public (but E-Bay sure is), also did well at Hasbro and FTD. No political experience, but has a degree in Economics from Princeton. Pretty good resume.
For my money, Whitman's the better choice of the two, but both have serious drawbacks in terms of name recognition in the political world.
Don't know if she'd even be interested, but a good candidate, with LOTS of political experience (TX Senator since 1993) and lots of political savvy as well as all round smarts, is Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-TX.
38 - RJ Elliott
Egomaniac I'm not going to disagree with.
Dumb, though? I dunno. I doubt he's as smart as he believes himself to be ... but then, who among us is?
39 - Dr Dreadful
If either of 'em have any smarts right now, they'll be announcing Michael Phelps as their veep...!
40 - RJ Elliott
Okay, how about Condi Rice?
I think it's probably a bad choice, but I'm not sure. She's intelligent, experienced (but not experienced at campaigning, and has never held elective office), Black, female, probably pro-choice, tied to the Bush administration more closely than anyone other than Dick Cheney, a Russia expert, strong on foreign policy, experienced in dealing with the media (press conferences and such), relatively young, almost universal name-recognition...
Lots of positives and lots of negatives. Would be a gutsy choice. Unlikely, though.
41 - Baritone
I don't know Doc. I might go for the 'cute' factor and bring in one of our lady gymnasts. I know they're young, but the Chinese seem to have figured out how to get around that issue. No problem.
B
42 - Dave Nalle
Well, my wife just got in from the car and the radio news said Obama picked Biden. Seems like a mistake to me, but I'm not complaining.
Dave
43 - El Bicho
"It's what the success of the democrats is built on."
Yeah because Republicans never lie to the public.
44 - Arch Conservative
Someone said that Biden is as dumb as a post....Well so too are many Americans.
Overall I actually think Biden is a pretty good choice. Who knew Barry had it in him.
Pros:
He brings foreign policy experience (Obama has none) to the ticket.
He will probably have muchmore appeal to blue collar white voters than Obama.
He is seen by many as a straight shooting plain talker.
He will be willing to sink his teeth into McCain so that Obama doesn't have to.
Cons:
He does like to hear the sound of his own voice sometimes.
A guy that's been in the Senate as long as Biden undercuts Obama's message of change and new politics.
Biden was verycritical of Obama during the Dem primaries.
I'm curious as to who those of you who think Obama erred think would have been the best choice.
Bayh - Would not have turned IN blue and is rumored to be too gentlemanly to get his hands dirty for Obama in the general.
Kaine - Even less experience than Obama.
Sebelius - Picking her would garuntee another 5- 10% of Clintonistas would vote for McCain or stay home.
Chet Edwards - "That the country guitar guy? He's in the Senate now?"
Hillary- Great pick if Obama had a burning desire to win the election and then die under suspicious circumstances at some point in the next 18 months.
So it appears that we will see Biden whispering in Obama's ear telling him where Georgia is and Romney whispering in McCains explainging what capital gains means.
45 - Clavos
Arch,
First, props for #44 and for joining the rest of us in actually talking about the issues without vituperation. I apologize; I know this sounds patronizing, it is emphatically not meant to be.
Second, I love this line:
So it appears that we will see Biden whispering in Obama's ear telling him where Georgia is and Romney whispering in McCains explainging what capital gains means.
46 - Arch Conservative
Well thanks for the props Clavos. I have of late begun to become something I never thought I would be and that is a vocal anti establishment individual who will be voting third party from here on out.
It has become quite clear to me that carrying water for either one of the major parties in the hopes that when you opt to vote for the lesser of two evils the party that that lesser evil calls home will at least deliver on some of the smaller more subtle differences is pointless.
Both parties have in recent years shown that their top priority is to needlessly and wastefully spend our money while blaming the other party for allof our problems.
Our society has become victim of political correctness run amok. The MSM and the major political parties are deathly afraid of offending any vocal special interest group and makes these groups all kinds of promises while giving them millions of our dollars.
Anyone that dares voice an opinion that doesn't tow the PC line is immediately attempted to be stifled with socially stigamtized semantic hand grenades thrown in their direction. If you believe in border security you're called a racist before you can explain why, if you oppose abortion you're a sexist that hates women, if you oppose Obama you're a racist, if you believe in traditional marriage you're a homophobe etc etc etc.......
America was founded on individualism and independence. We're the cowboys not the comrades. yet thereis no doubt in my mind that the far left in this nation, which holds ever increasing sway in the Dem party, is intent on turning us into a European style socialist state. They think that if they do it gradually in baby steps no one will notice or object. Obama himself said that he was going to take the profits of the oil companies away from them and give them to other parties that he felt should have them. It's only a small skip from there to telling small businesses and individuals how much they are allowed to make.
On the other hand we have become a society that places way too much emphasis on money and material possessions. Too many of us feel obligated to stay an extra hour or two at the office each day rather than go home and spend time with our loved ones. However this does not mean we shoudl adopt the "all business is corrupt and ammorral" attitude that the far left displays. We should encourage hard work, innovation and entrepeneurship while at the same time condemning en masse those abuses of power that occur in business that are both illegal and ammorral. I do not believe that the concepts of ethics/morality and a competitive, productive free market system are mutually exclusive concepts.
There are four things we need to do to get America back on the right track which neither party will be committed to doing in the next four years because they're too busy blaming each other.
1. Shrink the sphere of influence of the federal government and stop spending billions of tax payer dollars in such a reckless and needless fashion. The federal government, unlike the average American household has the luxury of spending gobs of money on all kinds of unnecessary and wastfeul endeavors. Our federal government should have no other purpose than providing the basics for all of us.....roads....military/national security and some very basic limited social welfare. Everything else should be left up to the states.
2. Bring back the manufacturing jobs. If we want to compete with China and other nation's in today's global economy we're going to have to at some point start making things ourselves again. Through increased taxation and regulation and the desire for the cheapest price on all goods we have literally screwed ourselves. In the future we are going to need to stop importing cheap crap from other nations and start making quality products oursleves and then exporting it to other nations and purchasing it domestically. of course we will have to pay more for it but we will be able to because we will have created higher paying jobs by bringing back the manfucturing base.
3. Redefine America's place in the world. This means not using any military force unless there is a clear and present danger to America, it's interestes, or it's allies. This also means that rather than strictly confronting radical islam with guns we confront the ideology that tells each new generation of foreign muslims that America and the west are evil and must be hated. We confront this ideology with the help of European and other allies who have themsleves been on the business end of islamic terrorism. We confront it and do whatever it takes to defeat it. I think this may possibly be what Bush had in mind when he decided to invade Iraq but it's now apparent that this bumbling full wasn't up to the task and went about it in the wrong way.
4. Lastly. We need to secure our southern border. I know....they're just hard working people who come here to do the jobs AMericans won't do. The trtuh is they are much more of a drain on our society than a benefit.
Neither McCain nor Obama would even think about doing nay of these things. They're both too busy pandering.
I will be voting for either Ron Paul or Chuck Baldwin. The only two men in the race I can see that are worth a damn.
The rest of you can have fun doing you part to continue the ruination of this once great nbation.
47 - Dan Miller
Arch,
Good comment. However, I question the wisdom of voting for a protest candidate whose chances of election are nil. How about finding someone on the "liberal" side and pairing with him, agreeing that neither will vote. If enough people did that, neither of the major party candidates could plausibly claim a mandate. That might be more productive than encouraging those likely to vote for the "conservative" candidate to vote for a
darkdead horse instead.Dan
48 - Arch Conservative
Dan I can only be responsible for my own conscience and vote. If people keep believeing that the only choices we have are the two guys from the Dem and Rep party that are selected by the media and shoved down our throats then that is all we will ever get.
Remember Ross Perot in 1992? He didn;t win a single state but he won almost 20% of the popular vote. I bet that scared the shit out of the powers that be in the mainstream media and the two major parties. But since then we have settled down and behaved like good little automatons.
Rememeber that giant sucking sound that Perot talked about when he would discuss NAFTA? He was right.
49 - Dan Miller
Arch,
Yes, I remember and I voted for him. As to whether his popular vote scared the shit out of the powers that be in the mainstream media and the two major parties, I don't think so; some, perhaps, but not enough: they have a limitless, renewable supply.
Dan
50 - Clavos
Rememeber that giant sucking sound that Perot talked about when he would discuss NAFTA? He was right.
Actually, he was behind the curve on that one, perhaps intentionally; putting the comment out as a prediction when in actuality, it was a summation of already existing conditions.
The "giant sucking sound" (of manufacturing jobs going south of the border) actually began with the establishment of duty free manufacturing zones in northern Mexico years before (in the 60s), and predated NAFTA, which was signed in December 1992 and went into effect in January 1994, by thirty years.
As Wikipedia describes, the maquiladoras were thriving long before NAFTA:
51 - Sam weaver
I find all the concerns about our southern borders rather funny. Please check history and find out how the lands of Texas, New Mexico, and California were obtained. Also, Canada is an easy place to enter the U.S from, ask anyone that has recently had a round trip ticket to Toronto.
52 - GreenSpam
My order of preference for McCain's VP:
1. Condi Rice
2. Sarah Paulin
3. Joe Lieberman
4. Michael Steele
PS. There is no necessary correlation between Conservative and Republican. Lots of Republicans in California are pro-choice - as is our popular Governator.
53 - El Bicho
There's no way McCain is picking Rice. He's trying to distant himself from Bush and picking someone from his administration who is already on record lying to Congress is not the way to do that.
54 - Clavos
If he wants to kick major Dem butt, he should pick Hillary...
55 - RJ Elliott
Arch:
What do you have against Bob Barr? He's running an anti-establishment campaign, and he actually has a realistic shot at 3 or 5 percent of the national vote (although he'll probably only get a little more than 1 percent, in my opinion).
I assume he'll actually be on the ballot in NH, so no need for a write-in vote, which truly is a wasted vote.
56 - Clavos
Here's an interesting questionnaire you can fill out to determine which candidate best matches your own political philosophy with percentage-of-match results.
57 - Arch Conservative
Bob Barr? The libertarian party webpage uses a lot of flowery language to dance around the fact that they favor open borders.
Plus I've heard Chuck Baldwin speak many times and can't imagine someone else representing my views better than him. He will most likely get my vote.
58 - RJ Elliott
Clavos,
My results:
Bob Barr (Libertarian) - 55%
Chuck Baldwin (Constitution) - 55%
John McCain (Republican) - 38%
Ralph Nader (Independent) - 18%
Cynthia McKinney (Green) - 18%
Gloria La Riva [Who???] (Socialism and Liberation) [What???] - 18%
Brian Moore (Socialist) - 13%
Barack Obama (Democrat) - 13%
Hillary Clinton (Democrat) - 10%
Socially I agree with Barr the most (63%); Economically I agree with Baldwin the most (54%).
I'd be curious to see what your results were.
59 - RJ Elliott
Arch:
Got any good links to YouTube (or other) videos of Baldwin speaking? I know almost nothing about the guy, except he's from Florida and is/was a pastor.
60 - Dave Nalle
Interestingly, as on previous versions of this test, I got less than 50% for any of the candidates. Strangely despite my very unchristian answers I got the highest rating for Chuck Baldwin (48%) followed by Bob Barr (45%) and John McCain (43%). The rest were way lower.
Dave
61 - Jordan Richardson
Hey, cool questionnaire.
My results were:
Hillary Clinton - 75% (63% social, 83% economic)
Brian Moore - 68% (75% social, 63% economic)
Ralph Nader - 65% (69% social, 63% economic)
Cynthia McKinney - 60% (56% social, 63% economic)
Barack Obama - 60% (38% social, 75% economic)
Gloria La Riva - 53% (63% social, 46% economic)
John McCain - 23% (13% social, 29% economic)
Chuck Baldwin - 18% (6% social, 25% economic)
Bob Barr - 15% (0% social, 25% economic)
62 - Pablo
Arch,
Would that be the same Chuck Baldwin that according to Wikepedia is an opponent of "The New World Order", and "The North American Union" and suggested re-opening an investigation into 9/11? Is that the guy you like Arch? I am starting to like him too!
63 - Dr Dreadful
This ineligible-to-vote liberal got the following:
Clinton 65% (81% social, 54% economic)
McKinney 60% (88% social, 42% economic)
Moore 53% (69% social, 42% economic)
Obama 53% (56% social, 50% economic)
Nader 50% (69% social, 38% economic)
La Riva 50% (56% social, 46% economic)
Baldwin 25% (19% social, 29% economic)
McCain 25% (19% social, 29% economic)
Barr 18% (0% social, 29% economic)
Doesn't surprise me much, except that I'm apparently not all that impressed with any of them when it comes to the economy. But then I'm not all that impressed with myself when it comes to the economy either. So what that tells you, I don't know.
This is fun!
64 - Clavos
McCain 63% (S-44%, E-75%)
Barr 45% (S-31%, E-54%
La Riva!! 40&! (S-50%, E-33%)
Clinton 38% (S-50%, E-29%)
McKinney! 38% (S-50%, E-29%)--Same as Clinton!
Nader 35% (S-50%, E-25%
Obama 35% (S-44%, E-29%)
Moore 30% (S-50%, E-17%)
Baldwin 23% (S-0%!, E-38%)
My top for Republican Veep:
Giuliani 69% (S-69%, E-54%)
Lieberman 55% (S-56%, E-54%)
Romney was fifth, 45% (S-38%, E-50%)
65 - Clavos
In #37, above, I mentioned that I thought that McCain would do well if he were to name Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison (R-TX) as his running mate.
Today, in a column on Real Clear Politics, Dick Morris, Bill Clinton's former campaign manager, agrees with me, saying:
66 - RJ Elliott
Joe Biden - He has a much higher IQ than you.
67 - RJ Elliott
Clavos,
After thinking about it some, I'm now kinda hoping McCain chooses a female running mate (and KBH would be a decent choice).
It would be a major coup for his candidacy, I believe; it would completely close the gender gap while getting a lot of Hillary Democrats to cast their votes for McCain in November. Likely result: Solid McCain victory, if not a landslide. And then Hillary in 2012...
Okay, so it's not a *perfect* plan, but it works for four years, at least. :-/
68 - Clavos
I agree with you RJ. I think if he doesn't choose a female, he's making a big mistake.
I don't know anything about Sarah Palin, the Alaska governor, but a lot of people like her, too.
He definitely should choose a woman.
69 - RJ Elliott
My (somewhat shocking, to me at least) GOP VP results:
Mike Huckabee 63% (I don't like him...)
Tom Tancredo 63%
Bobby Jindal 55%
Fred Thompson 55%
Bill Frist 53%
Newt Gingrich 53%
Charlie Crist 48% (I'm not a huge fan...)
Sam Brownback 48%
Jeb Bush 48%
Mitt Romney 45% (My favorite is ranked tenth?)
Tim Pawlenty 40%
Condi Rice 38%
Mark Sanford 38%
Tommy Thompson 35%
Joseph Lieberman 30%
Rudy Giuliani 30%
70 - RJ Elliott
Sarah Palin is somewhat of a maverick herself. She's wildly popular in Alaska, but then she's rather new at her job. Also, strongly pro-life.
I don't dislike her, but given McCain's age, does he really want to choose a relatively young, very inexperienced former beauty pageant (literally) contestant as his running mate? And how would the conservative base of the Republican Party take to a somewhat pro-gay rights VP?
Palin, IMO, is a Hail Mary. And McCain doesn't need that right now, since he's nearly tied in the polls with Obama right now.
71 - RJ Elliott
Here's a fun exercise, for those who are interested. (And, yes, I apologize to Dave for this hijacking of his post.)
Name ten current elected official from the *other party* who you respect, if not agree with.
Here is my list, in no particular order:
Evan Bayh
Joe Biden
Bill Richardson
Ed Rendell
Heath Shuler
Ike Skelton
Joe Lieberman
Ben Nelson
Bill Nelson
Jim Webb
I'm particularly interested in replies from BC regulars. Would also be happy to explain any and all of my choices.
72 - Dr Dreadful
Ten, eh? And they have to be elected, not appointees... tough one.
With the proviso that I'm British, and think that a significant percentage of members of both your major parties are about as attractive as toe fungus, I will for the purpose of the exercise align myself with the Democrats and seek to name ten Republicans whom I respect.
I can only think of three or four right now, but it is midnight on Sunday. Let me sleep on it and I'll get back to you in the morning.
73 - Dave Nalle
No problem hijacking the thread. It's pretty much run its course.
BTW, I think your list of Dems you respect includes some of the biggest douchebags in the party.
I'll name 5 Dems I find at least marginally acceptable:
Barney Frank
Teddy Kennedy
Al Gore
Harold Ford
Bobby Kennedy Jr.
Hell, that was a stretch. A lot easier to name ones I despise.
Dave
74 - Andy Marsh
I think it would be easier to just try and name ten politicians in general that I respect...no matter what party they come from!
Dave - if, like you said in an earlier comment, McCain might be waiting to see what Barry does and then pick based on that...it kinda seems like he's gonna have to pick someome like Powell or Rice. It would seem to be the best way to balance the young black guy/old white guy dem ticket by making the rep ticket and old white guy and a young black woman or relatively young black guy. But picking Joe would just piss all of the extreme right off and would make this all a little more fun.
75 - Dr Dreadful
Andy's probably right, but as promised, here goes with my homework:
What I Did On My Summer VacationTen Elected Republican Politicians I Have Time For:(some may surprise you)
Mike Bloomberg
Sam Brownback
Susan Collins
Charlie Crist
Liddy Dole
Chuck Hagel
Bobby Jindal
John McCain
Arnold Schwarzenegger
Olympia Snowe
Blimey, that was tough. They're a pretty sorry bunch, them elephants.