Foley might swing the election to the Dems, because his folly sticks in the craw of the GOP's useful idiots, the Evangelical Crazies
I could give a two hoots and a square turd about Mark Foley. I’m only excited about his stupidity because it could help the weasly Democrats beat the scurvy Republicans in November.…
Article comments
26 - Nancy
Dunno, but if they are, we'll crucify them as well. Equal opportunity crucifiers, we are. Personally I'm all for stringing up ALL congresspersons by their innards from the trees on the mall as a warning to wannabe congressional malefactors, and starting over with a new, clean set subject to stringent term limits so they can't get used to privilege & abuse of power.
27 - Maurice
I'm sorry to those that just want to talk about Foley. I can't get past this "tax breaks for the rich" thing.
Going back to the table:
$24804 10%
$73,710 15%
$137,488 25%
$211,744 28%
$372,190 33%
$infinity 35%
If your adjusted gross is 130K you will pay:
10% * $24804 = $2480
15% * $73,710 - $24804 = $7335
25% * $130,000 - $73,710 - $24804 = $7871
for a total of $17,686
Please do some math and no more bullshit about rich wage earners getting more tax breaks than the poor!
We now return you to your normally scheduled program.
28 - Clavos
Maurice,
Despite all the carping about the Bush tax cuts, you're right (as the table proves).
Are you familiar with the Fair Tax bill currently before Congress?
I've talked about it on other threads. It offers what appears to be a good, workable alternative to the present system.
29 - Nancy
Maurice, 17,636/130,000 = an effective rate of just 13.6% of 130,000; pretty damned good break after all, if you ask me. I end up paying a helluva lot more than that, & I make 1/5 that much. So bitching about tax breaks for the rich SHALL continue.
On another note, you're in Idaho, aren't you? Have you had your first snow up there yet? I always thought Idaho was flat (potatoes & all, y'know) but recently saw my first photos of the place & you really have some wild moonscapes up there plus bodacious mountains.
30 - Adam Ash
Maurice:
My heartr bleeds for you in your abject penury, but it used to be that really rich people cheerfully paid 90% of their earnings in taxes, and then this was reduced to 50%.
Ever since then, they've been getting one tax break after another. Not to mention gettting breaks on capital gains earnings, too.
Half the time tax accountants get them out of paying taxes at all, like the tax accountants of companies like GE getting them to pay negative tax, i.e. tax payers like you and me pay our tax money back to big companies.
If Clinton complains that as a rich guy he shouldn't be getting more tax breaks from Bush, I don't know why I should listen to you, mate.
Adam
31 - Maurice
Right on, Clavos.
Nancy - No snow yet. We have everything in Idaho. Mountains, deserts, lakes, rivers. It is truly beautiful.
Cheerfully Adam? LOL
32 - Bliffle
Nalle: "I don't think serious devastation of the GOP would be such a bad thing here at an interim election. The party clearly needs a kick in the nuts, and if the result were a sundering of the religious right (smaller than the 40% you suggest) from the sensible people in the party - who are not just the millionaires, but also the principled philosophical conservatives and libertarians - then the result would likely be a better party and one which could be more effective in the long run."
The Libertarians have already abandoned Bush. Have you read LewRockwell.com lately? As have a lot of traditional conservatives.
33 - Dave Nalle
Bliffle, Bush is largely irrelevant to this issue. I realize that the left's world revolves around him, but for the future of the GOP he's not the issue.
LewRockwell extremists have never supported Bush, btw.
Dave
34 - Nancy
That surprises me, Dave; I should think, seeing how he's both hijacked & crippled the GOP, he'd be at the heart of any issue involving the GOP future. How is he not part of it? I'd be interested to hear why not from you. Thanks.
35 - handyguy
Good article in today's NY Times, a biographical piece that details just how closeted [or not] Mr. Foley actually is.
36 - Dave Nalle
That surprises me, Dave; I should think, seeing how he's both hijacked & crippled the GOP, he'd be at the heart of any issue involving the GOP future. How is he not part of it? I'd be interested to hear why not from you. Thanks.
Largely because he's not the one who hijacked the GOP. He's a symptom, not the cause. The cause is the religious right and to a lesser extent the Neocons. They're the ones who have hijacked the party. The religious right have hijacked domestic policy and the Neocons hijacked foreign policy. Bush may be associated with the Neocons, but they're the lesser of the two problems. It's the grassroots fundamentalist whack jobs who really need to be expelled, and they're in Congress and Foley is one of them.
Dave
37 - Jon Sobel
[Bush is] a symptom, not the cause.
I agree with Dave on this, although I think puppet is a better word than symptom.
Bush's failed Presidency has certainly caused the Republican Party harm in the short term, but moderate Republicans - the few that are left in DC along with the many in state governments and the population at large - have got to be thinking past Bush at this point. It wouldn't at all surprise me if the GOP's 2008 nominee was a moderate, and maybe even someone wonkish like Dukakis.
38 - Dave Nalle
IMO the Foley thing is a windfall for the hyper-hetero Giuliani.
Dave
39 - Clavos
hyper-hetero
Heh. Good wordsmithing, that!
40 - Jon Sobel
Or Mike Bloomberg. Imagine a Bloomberg-Clinton race. The Republican candidate would be more liberal than the Democrat!
41 - Dave Nalle
Bloomberg isn't terribly charismatic and doesn't have the name-recognition that Giuliani does. Clinton might actually stand a chance against him, and she stands none against Giuliani.
Dave
42 - Adam Ash
Don't count Bloomberg out. He bought himself the Mayoralty in New York, by spending over a $1,000 per vote he got. With his billions, he could buy himself the presidency if he felt like it.
And he's a total pragmatist, somebody our culture-war, damned-by-ideology country sorely needs. He cares so little for political partisanship that he brusquely switched from being a Democrat to a Republican to get into the Mayor's race. He's above party politics. I like that he doesn't make me care about which party he belongs to -- he makes it irrelevant. He would hire the best, whether they're Dem or Rep or in politics at all.
43 - Jon Sobel
Unlike Giuliani, Bloomberg has sworn up and down that he has no interest in higher office. He is, however, if belatedly, a politician, and we all know how much pledges like that are worth from politicians.
That said, I'd be very, very surprised if Giuliani got nationwide support in a Republican primary. His popularity dates from 9/11 mythmaking. He's too ethnic (whatever that means), has too many minor skeletons in his closet, and he's got a mean streak like Bob Dole. Plus a lisp. Bad, bad, bad Presidential candidate.
44 - Adam Ash
Also, there's a funny picture of Guiliani in full drag -- lipstick, wig and all -- at some party. Once they run that picture, he's deader than Dukakis.
45 - Arch Conservative
I don't know why you guys seem to think that the GOP should nominate a moderate republican in 2008. The GOP base is by and large either fiscally conservative, socially conservative or both. i'd say both representing the largest portion of the GOP base. The reason this base has turned away from bush is because he has definitely not acted fiscally conservative and while he has given a lot of lip service to social conservatives he hasn't really fought that hard on thier behalf.
I think that the GOP must choose someone to the right of Bush in 2008 in order to appease the base. In other words they must pick a true conservative in the mold of Ronald Reagan.
if the Dems insist on running Hillary in 2008 ot will make it that much easier for the GOP. I think the Dems no she is not well liked but they have no idea the sheer unadulterated animosity and contempt that so many Americans have for her.
46 - Steve
Re. #36, I was under the impression from political commentators here in Canada that Foley is pro choice and pro gay marriage (or are they wrong on this one??).
So how is he a member of the religious right?? Sounds like a pretty moderate Republican, certainly not a social conservative, anyway!! So how is he a fundamentalist whack job, Dave (that's the term non-social conservatives apply to social conservatives these days isn't it??)??
Is atheism the only faith that should be allowed for congressmen to have now?? I thought you were a Republican, Dave, not a communist!!
47 - Scott
"No snow yet. We have everything in Idaho. Mountains, deserts, lakes, rivers. It is truly beautiful."
A friend of mine has told me Boise is a lot like Salt Lake City but without the Mormon influence. If that's the case, I'd love to go visit. I liked Salt Lake City a great deal.
48 - Nancy
The photos I saw were truly amazing: parts of it looked like Alaska & part like the moon; and then there were the lakes, but it all seemed to be either very flat or very mountainous. Either way, it was pretty spectacular. But it sure did look COLD.
49 - Maurice
Nancy #29
I keep telling you to do the math! You claim that you pay more tax than my example even though you make 1/5 the amount in the example. Please look at your real tax amount:
130K * .20 = 26K
10% * $24804 = $2480
15% * $26,000 - $24804 = $179.40
for a total of $2659.40
$2659.4 / $26K = 10.2%
10.2% is less than 13.6%
Last note: I'm sorry if you are really only making 26K in DC. Move to Idaho.
50 - Nancy
I should, but it looks too cold-!
51 - Maurice
How cold is cold?
52 - Maurice
Scott #47
If it blows in Idaho its because it sucks in Utah!
Just kidding. If you liked SL you would love Boise.
Our ski resorts are easy to get to (one is 30 minutes from town) and we have a lot of culture for a small town. We even have a black history museum.
53 - Nancy
Cold = anytime it's cold enough to make ice, frost, or snow. I'm in western MD. It gets chill here, but nowheres near approximating Frostbite Falls like out there. You all get those nasty icemakers from Canada come sweeping down the plains at regular intervals, dontcha? I have a friend in Montana who seems to think that 3 ft of snow in September is normal. She may as well be in Pt. Barrow-!
54 - Jet in Columbus
Idaho has so few blacks that they hed to put them in a museum???
55 - Maurice
We have a very mild climate. One snow day last year. We never get ice storms. It is nice having 4 seasons.
Jet - yes my sisters and I are the only black people here...
56 - Maurice
Nancy - I notice you never refuted my refutation in #49....
57 - Clavos
Maurice,
Only one snow day? Must be a pretty dry climate, huh?
If so, the cold is probably easier to take than Nancy's in MD.
I have a friend in Aspen, whom I visit often. It's dry there to the point that very cold (on the thermometer) days don't seem as bad as much warmer ones in Atlanta used to feel when I lived there.
58 - JR
Maurice: We have everything in Idaho. Mountains, deserts, lakes, rivers.
How's the surf?
59 - Nancy
When I was living in NH, even tho I was on the ocean, the cold seemed less intense, even tho we got lots more snow than we do now in MD. Something to do with the amt of moisture in the air, perhaps?
Maurice, I'm trying to find my last few years' 1040s to get some actual figures, but they're buried. I shall try to get back to that, I promise. All I know at the moment is that I pay more in taxes than a very wealthy guy I know who has millions, and I obviously make a fraction of what he does. Something there ain't right & it ain't just & it ain't fair.
60 - Nancy
Getting back on track to Foleygate, the latest early this ayem is that a GOP lawmaker has come forward to state he advised Hastert over FIVE YEARS ago about Foley; if that's true, that sure blows Hastert's fat lying butt out of the water & makes fools of all those "rallying 'round" him out of misplaced party loyalty.
While we're at it, Sen. Allen has been caught failing to report some rather important business interests in corporations he owns & just happened to get preferential Navy contracts for.
And the GOP hits just keep on comin ....
61 - Clavos
Nancy #60:
The report I just heard on the radio said it was Congressman Jim Kolbe of Arizona, who is the only openly gay Republican in the House. It also said that he advised the CLERK of the House, not the SPEAKER of the House. We'll have to wait and see which it is.
62 - Nancy
Yup, that's the details I heard a little later, altho the report on WTOP stated that he said he told Hastert directly. Well, this just keeps getting more & more interesting, altho as I said, I still think Hastert has dug himself into a corner this time. But why would Kolbe want to warn anyone about Foley? Wouldn't he want to avoid problems for a fellow gay? Why didn't he go talk to Foley himself?
63 - Clavos
My guess is that he (wisely, in my opinion) saw how fraught with potential problems for gays Foley's behavior was, and saw the problem as bigger than something to be resolved in a simple one-on-one conversation.
Not knowing either Kolbe or Foley, I can't answer your question directly, but I think it's safe to assume that Kolbe knows Foley, at least superficially. Perhaps there's something about Foley that made Kolbe think it was wiser to involve another party.
64 - MCH
Is Mark Foley a Chickenhawk?
65 - Maurice
Nancy - if you are not itemizing you are not getting very many (if any!) deductions. Still the only way to escape taxes (tax tables are resolute!) is to reduce you taxable income.
Perhaps your friend is not making a wage but merely living off old money....
I know from experience that you lose deductions as you make more income.
66 - Nancy
Oh, Lord, no: this guy itemizes every nickel. I itemize, also, but if you aren't paying boucoup interest on an expensive house, and you don't have investment tax shelters or the other specialty deductions open only to the rich, you don't get much to deduct. Tell the truth, I don't know how he does it. Maybe he hides & (actually I suspect he does) cheats on his taxes. A lot of them do, in my several years' experience as an IRS agent. I'll try to find my stuff this weekend. I do know that there was an article published in the WP a couple of years ago in which a 1040 filed by a multimillionaire was compared with one filed by a taxpayer making +/- $50K or so (both fictitious), and using all the legal deductions, etc. the millionaire ended up paying only 1/4 of what the 'normal' taxpayer did - surely a miscarriage of justice & grossly unfair.
67 - Adam Ash
Nancy,
Can you run down that article and tell us when and where it ran. Sounds VERY interesting.
Adam
68 - Nancy
I'll try, as long as I don't have to pay to get into their articles morgue. It won't be immediately, it will take me a bit, so don't hold your breath on it, but I'll give it my best shot. My co worker who remembers it also says it may have been in the Washingtonian Magazine instead. I'll look.
69 - Maurice
It is easy for a millionaire to not pay taxes. He just has to not have a wage. If you are living off saved dollars you have no wage and pay no tax.
CEOs are paying plenty in income tax because they do have a wage. BTW bonus's and stock options are taxed as regular income.
70 - Nancy
No, now they've got some scam going where the corporation picks up all the taxes on that stuff, altho how the IRS allows that, I don't know, since they tend to consider it income if you use your neighbor's kleenex, as far as the rank & file of us goes.