All the early warning technology in the world is no match for human stupidity.
When the Boxing Day tsunami hit Southeast Asia late last year the whole world was shocked and visibly shaken. So many innocent people lost their lives. Fingers were pointed at the world community for not having an inexpensive early warning system. That kind of blame is good, because one will certainly be purchased now. Not one victim was warned about the impending doom that came that day. All victims were innocent.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Robert
That's the spirit Silas! I love that. Anger, ingenuity and a desire to IMPROVE are the keys here. Look at how much safer are cars are today than 20 years ago. We are a smart nation. We can create the infastructure to prevent this from happening in the future.
27 - Kurt
I bet we could all turn very blue holding our breaths waiting for any kind of overseas help, least of all from our Saudi mast, er, I mean friends...
28 - RogerMDillion
You can focus on whatever you want. Maybe you should list the types of reactions that you want in the comments and tell people that don't fall into that group not to respond. Although many might wonder why anyone should listen to your anger when you can't handle any directed at you?
We obviously have no idea of the death toll yet, but what about the many deaths that occured in MS or AL? What was their fair warning, if as you claim, they didn't get it from the media who was completely focused on New Orleans?
It just seems to early to be angry. Sure you can gripe about the anecdotal stuff you are seeing on television, but it doesn't seem to be productive when we are days, if not weeks, from knowing the complete story of the past days events.
29 - RogerMDillon
I also wanted to echo Silas's wonderful and heartfelt thoughts. To show my appreciation for his warmth toward these hurricane victims, I want to drop my pants and bend over for him now. Take me, Silas, take me! I surrender to you, you big bear!
30 - Robert
Roger, the point of this post is to piss people off if you haven't noticed.
Anger is the key. We must do better.
And are you gonna include a reacharound with that offer?
31 - RogerMDillion
If I was going to show my apprecation, wouldn't I would perform something on him rather than make him do all the work?
32 - Robert
That's the ticket..
33 - RogerMDillion
and have the guts to use your own
34 - RogerMDillion
name
35 - Robert
Sorry I'm not up on my Gay lingo there Rog. I'll try to do better. In regards to "Getting people angry isn't going to do anything."
Wrong. And that's my point. Idiots like yourself have no understanding of history.
Anger was a key ingredient for:
The defeat of Hitler
The success of the Civil rights movement
Safer cars
Safer roads
Safer planes
Safer drugs
Better police protection
Environmental laws
Consumer laws
Violent crime laws
Punk Rock
etc
etc
I'd rather be confused on reacharounds than something this obvious.
36 - Robert
My name is Robert.
37 - Silas Kain
Let me tell you something, dudes. If I thought for one minute that I could inspire people to step up like I described in comment #25, I'd offer blow job lessons to all girlfriends and housewives from Portland, Maine to San Diego. I'd do it like a Tupperware Party. Husbands and boyfriends across America would owe me their souls.
38 - Silas Kain
I'm with Robert on the anger thing. Remember Network? I'm mad as hell, and I'm not gonna take it anymore! I'm at that point. It's time the rest of us were. We need to seize this opportunity and do it right. What we do with the Gulf in the aftermath of Katrina could be a model for the next 3 centuries. We've got a chance to make an impact like they made during the Renaissance. We have a common goal that will foster the best that Americans have to offer. People bitch about national pride. Well, folks put your money where your mouths are.
39 - Temple Stark
>>Why do I assign blame so quickly? Well, let me try to explain...
>>INNOCENT PEOPLE FUCKING DIED!
>>That's why!
And you said they deserved it.
That's not just anger, it's misplaced anger. I also did not say people could not mourn and be angry - I said it couldn't be done effectively, as in it quickly becomes not productive but counter-productive. And I don't think you are grieving about this so your stages of grief comment is off the mark. (If you have lost or are worried about loved ones then I am wrong on this count, but you have not indicated as such so far.)
If you're writing in anger fine, that's what you're doing. And I'm saying you cast a wide net and it's directed at true victims (those vast majority of others who were not throwing hurricane parties etc.), which is very hard to defend. I'm commenting to see if you can do that - effectively - following what was obviously a provocative post, meant as you said to draw more anger.
Haven't succeeded in my case. I'd rather deal with your reasoning behind your anger, which I find to be absent.
I not only felt attacked - I was attacked, verbally, of course. But I didn't just lose my home and all my belongings, so I'm fine with that misplaced anger.
Now are you ready for why your post is completely wrong on how the federal government will save much at all? As I mentioned before I'm sure someone can easily guess. Three words, two of them are .... industry bailout.
40 - Robert
>>INNOCENT PEOPLE FUCKING DIED!
>>That's why!
TEMPLE: And you said they deserved it.
I made it quite clear that there were innocent victims AND those who deserve blame. If you cannot see the difference between the innocent (ie: children, elderly) and the Guilty (the capable) I can't help you. I did not "throw a wide net" in the least. Please read the whol post again. You're problem is you are completely unwilling to place blame.
That's very dangerous.
And about your bailout. I will guess Entertainment or Insurance
41 - Temple Stark
Just to be clear when I say "castng a net", I'm referring to paragraph six.
>>However, able-bodied adults ....
42 - bhw
I think that all the people in those red states down there ought to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and refuse the FEMA money and any other commie-state sponosored funds that were stolen at gunpoint from good, hardworking high-earning 'muricans in the blue states.
43 - Robert
And again, Anger is a stage in the grieving process. It certainly is an "effective" part of mourning. You argument is weak.
One does not "undermind" the other. One is an integral part of the other. Comprende? And the thrust of my argument was very clear. You are the one building the net. I gave many specific examples.
But since you are having such trouble let me try again.
"If you are an able-bodied adult, who knew the storm was coming and ignored the mandatory evacuation orders you are guilty"
44 - LegendaryMonkey
Again, I don't feel I can speak on those who felt they'd seen the worst and weathered it before, or those who felt they needed to protect their homes... because I've never been through anything like this before. Has anyone here? I'd be interested in hearing from someone who did weather a disaster that is even half the scale and size of Katrina.
Now, if you want to target the people who were sitting in bars in the French Quarter mixing up special edition Hurricane Hurricanes, partying, and puking as though it were all business as usual, then I can see saying that they deserved it. Let's hope they didn't breed and now can't, and chalk it up as a loss.
But as for the others... who didn't feel they could afford to leave, or who thought it might be okay, or who weighed the risk of trying to leave (and possibly failing and being caught out) against staying in their homes to protect their property for the looters... again, I don't feel I'm in a position to state that they deserved it. But that's just me.
Silas is good people, and he makes an excellent point. However, unless truly vast and sweeping changes are made to the basic American system -- changes that are likely unrealistic even if the death toll were quadruple current numbers -- if a full rebuild of New Orleans is indeed necessary, we may just have to chalk that up as a loss as well.
The simple fact of the matter is that many insurance companies will pay out for replacements on property damaged or destroyed in disaster prone areas... but in the last decade, these companies have been making the decision to no longer insure property in these areas after replacement costs are paid.
I work for a mortgage company. When our clients ask us about filing claims with their insurance companies if something happens to their new homes, it has become policy (though not official) to counsel against such unless it is something truly drastic. Why? Because once you file a claim, obtaining future insurance becomes difficult or simply too costly to manage. In areas prone to hurricanes, tornados, and possibly earthquakes... we may see a time very soon when it becomes impossible.
I can't think of a single company that will enter into a mortgage agreement on a property for which one is unable to secure insurance.
THAT is going to be a major issue in the resurrection of New Orleans. How will the policymakers handle that one? Will they simply dictate that insurance companies MUST offer coverage in these areas? Every happy capitalist in the nation will twitch at the very thought. Because compassion isn't what we're about.
We're about SUVs and credit cards and reality television.
I agree with you, Silas. But unfortunately, I think Americans rallying to anything that affects a relatively small part of the nation (particularly one denigrated as a bastion of trailer park trash and rednecks, with the exception of New Orleans proper), is a pipe dream.
Wish I could say differently.
45 - IgnatiusReilly
How about getting angry at those that didn't bring enough provisions or money to deal with the extended evacuation?
If they die, it's their own fault; they knew a big storm was coming.
link
46 - The Duke
"I think that all the people in those red states down there ought to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps and refuse the FEMA money and any other commie-state sponosored funds that were stolen at gunpoint from good, hardworking high-earning 'muricans in the blue states"
That was called "reconstruction"
As long as we're grinding our teeth about events and such not within our immediate control.
Have you all looked at a map? How big is the gulf? How unpredictable is a Hurricane? How much time does one really have to take action and evacuate?
2 MAYBE 3 days? Or, shall we expect when a hurricane enters the gulf for everyone living on the coast to up and split?
It's not a reality. At least not once you get your butts up out of your office chair and away from your precious postulating keyboard positions.
All great ruminations, mind you... but realistic... not yet.
Mr. or Ms. Tung lov in statement #20 indicated a federal surcharge for living in the hazardous areas. Hmmm, possible but I foresee insurance companies just plain abandoning coverage for rebuiding areas which are prone or historically have had significant damage from natural disasters (they're still called acts of God, but as Pat Robertson has pointed out -- are really the spawn of Satan).
Look at the Casino Barges, for example. Where gambling was against the law, the law was sidestepped and barges were constructed and sat offshore to accomodate the gambling. Now those barges reside on the beach, and have crushed houses, killed people and I reckon, aren't such a good idea afterall (hindsight being 20/20). Other damage was caused by barges offshore with 2 ton rolls of paper, splitting apart and discharging the cargo towards the beach. Hundreds of rolls of paper careening into neighborhoods and destroying everything they collided with.
There is really quite a lot of damage to assess. And learn from.
I've been to New Orleans many times, work and play. I've been all over the region working on communications towers, mostly in support of the oil platforms and local/regional emergency systems. Grand Isle is about (was) 6 inches above sea level, yet completely inhabited. That's crazy. I was offered a job in New Orleans 2 years ago, and after very little thought, turned in down... because of what you are witnessing today. The area was ripe for catastrophe. There was no question in my mind to turn the position down, absolutely none.
Some folks down there, were born and raised and would never leave. Or couldn't.
Yet, New Orleans grew, sprawled and money kept pouring into the area... that is foolish, that is insane. Why invest billions in an area with such risk?
Now we're in an era where risk mitigation is practiced at all levels of business. Yet entities invest capital in areas with very high risk ratings; both political and natural -- why? Is it the gamble? Are humans prone to chance? It's amazing. It's amazingly stupid.
The New Orleans area was designed and built over 150 years ago. The placement was flawed. The design is flawed. We should know better. We should learn from this. Why rebuild? Biloxi is destroyed, Gulf port -- a shambles. And there's more places along the coast.
The bad news is that what was once an agricultural area of infrastructure, is now primarly supporting energy.
Do we (as a country) need energy? Sure we do. Do we need New Orleans as part of that infrastructure? It was handy while it was there, but maybe the need just went away, and the response will be to adjust base operations from different locations with greater stability than from a city below sea level. We'll see. Write your Senators and Congressmen. Grousing here will not lead to any change. The HILL needs to know that federal dollars pouring into a rebuild may not be such a good idea.
47 - Silas Kain
The New Orleans area was designed and built over 150 years ago. The placement was flawed. The design is flawed. We should know better. We should learn from this. Why rebuild? Biloxi is destroyed, Gulf port -- a shambles. And there's more places along the coast.
And that's why we should not be in such a hurry to rebuild. This is a time for strategic planning. This isn't just about New Orleans. There's a 110 mile stretch between New Orleans and Mobile, AL. Along the I-10 corridor are areas that will forever be affected by Katrina's wrath. We're still unsure about places like Gautier and Bay St. Louis.
Do we (as a country) need energy? Sure we do. Do we need New Orleans as part of that infrastructure? It was handy while it was there, but maybe the need just went away, and the response will be to adjust base operations from different locations with greater stability than from a city below sea level.
The more important question is: Do we as a country need to change the ways we consume energy? You bet your ass we do. We're the most self-absorbed wasteful society known to mankind. We've taken highways, gasoline, electricity and home heating for granted.
My fellow Americans, we are a pubic hair away from being in the same boat as Third World countries. Don't ever believe that it could never happen to us! No one ever believed that WTC could happen. Thousands of people in New Orleans never believed that Kristina had that kind of force. The Secretary of Homeland Security has invoked the new domestic security laws by declaring this "an incidence of national significance". No shit, Sherlock. The problem is that this is an incident of monumental proportions.
We are about to face a harsh winter. Remember the legend of the Revolutionary Army at Valley Forge? This year people across the Northeast will have to decide between a dozen eggs and a gallon of home heating oil. Farmers in the Mid-West will face rising fuel costs to the point where a lousy potato may end up costing $2 before it's over. Californians are facing rolling blackouts because the electricity needs of the remaining country will be strained. Disease and despair face New Orleans for the next 3 - 6 months. Biloxi and Gulfport may never rebuild.
In our selfishness we tend to close our eyes to the devastation our American compatriots are experiencing. The lawlessness and panic setting in across New Orleans dwarfs what could happen in other parts of this country if we get another natural disaster in the short term. Hundreds died in Mississippi because they could not afford a tank of gas to get out of the area. How can that happen in America?
I know I sound like a Mullah in heat. I'm sorry but I am so angry I can't see the forest for the trees. There's plenty of time to assign blame where it belongs but right now America needs to focus. We need to help those who remain. Once we have taken care of our own, then we need to decide how we can best serve the people of the Gulf in rebuilding. This is a great opportunity for a great nation. Let's not squander a chance to get it right.
48 - Temple Stark
To not be rude and to answer a question I posed, yes, the insurance industry.
(I don't get the entertainment industry bailout reference.)
Links
House Panel Considers Bill that Spells Disaster for Consumers
Paying for the Next Big One (Starting fifth paragraph).
Flirting with disaster - disaster relief reform (Though if you click back to page 1 there's some grist for all)
Are insurance companies evil? Yes, some ... I mean, No. My parents own one (exclusively aviation). But the point is, federal savings, or government savings in general are slim.
Not to mention flood insurance is exeedingly expensive - when it's offered at all. Check that last "Flirting with disaster ... " link - In Florida and California, the state has become the largest insurer because private insurance companies won't cover. In some cases they will, with the funding lead coing from the state.
(Yes, I know a couple of the links are old. I hope no one pretends the problem isn't right here and now. I'm only allowed three links in this commenting system I believe. )
49 - Jeanne
I am sure many had reason not to leave. One problem I see is that, like ants, the Bowl will be rebult As Before to invite the same problem and result. We often blindly think that if a city exists it must be safe...we think we are being looked out for when often we are not. We are too busy, destracted, uneducated or illinformed in general. Dangers are kept underwraps, crime is made little of etc. in the interests of politicians and big business...they don't want to keep anyone away...how will the area thrive and grow?...keep the bad stuff undercover! Anyone who speaks up is called "henny penny" or described as "crying wolf". AND...many want to live their lives avoiding the truth if it is not pleasant! It seems obvious that once the areas are cleaned up, rebuilding needs to be rethought but it won't be. New Orleans was a fabulous city and they will build it once again without filling in the Bowl or dealing with drainage problems or the Army Corp.changing the way the lake is drained. I have a thought on the looting...It is wrong, yes, but due to the fact that many needed water, food, clothing, toiletries...to this extent I personally excuse it. There were no clerks in the stores to pay! However...jewelry and electronics and other totally unnecessary items stolen is not acceptable to me in the least.
50 - Silas Kain
What about the policewomen in uniform who looted the WalMart? It's on film. I'm sorry but as far as I am concerned these officers of the law should be taken to the middle of the French Quarter and stoned to death. Sound harsh? Tough shit. These women were on the city payroll. At least they have a job unlike a milliuon other people in that crescent. The taxpayer invests in them to protect the public safety. Granted there's very little that can be done to stop the looting from happening, but to take part in it while on duty and in uniform is unforgivable. They deserve to be punished to the fullest extent of the law and I would expect nothing less.
51 - augrad
I agree with you 100% -- people who had the means and ability to leave should have left on Saturday morning. Now, understand that this is coming from a woman who lives in Pensacola, Florida, and I have been through 4 significant hurricanes in my lifetime (I grew up in Mobile). They were only cat. 1's and cat. 2's, which are scary enough. Our houses are built to withstand 120 mph winds. Once you have been through a terrifying 4-5 hour experience where you think you are going to die at any minute, you loose your love for your home and belongings and just want to get out.
Southerners are a very proud people, and it is very hard to force them to do something they don't want to do. As far as I know, New Orleans has never been through a cat. 4 hurricane, so they had no idea that it would be as bad as it was. I considered evacuating even at 160 miles away!! BTW: I flew to Kansas a year ago when Ivan was making his way here. All it takes is once, and I guarantee they will leave next time. I have friends who stayed here through Ivan and they all say never again!! I will stay for a cat. 1, and MAYBE a cat. 2 ---- but never ever ever a cat. 3 or higher. So if anybody reading this is moving to the Gulf Coast, please heed this warning and leave for the big ones!!
52 - Bob
Where is the offer of help from the nations we aided in the Tsunami disster?
53 - Dave Nalle
I think we have to give those nations a break, Bob. They're still recovering from that disaster and are poor countries to begin with. Plus, what exactly COULD Indonesia offer us in the way of help? Cheaper furniture at Cost Plus World Market?
Dave
54 - Complete
You might want to see how people are blaming Bush for this here
I have mentioned this blog there as well.
55 - DrPat
Many nations have offered help in the form of ships to transport oil and refined product out of Louisiana, and food and water into it.
But I think that the wealth of this country is such that the US is still the best-positioned to provide assistance.
56 - kelly
some of you peopel haev horrible things to say.I mean just out right mean! the poorest of poor peopel are out there dying people can't get to help because they don't have cars the city is flooded the roads are closed and they have no wear to go how dare some of you say those mean things...What woudl you do if you were so poor you coudl not get out I think you would be doing the same thign step backa nd put your self and thier place!
57 - Bob A. Booey
I normally like your music stuff, Robert, but WOW this left me cold.
I'm sure even rational intellectuals like us can understand the primitive, stupid human desire to stay with their hard-earned belongings, family members, and pets and hope for the best, especially those without money to travel away and to whom those possessions cannot be replaced.
And you can understand why anyone would think the media might have cried "Wolf!" one too many times, especially when bad weather stories have become nothing but ratings-getters during sweeps week in May when the weather's beautiful.
Have some empathy, my friend.
That is all.
58 - Robert
If you stay in the path of a category 5 hurricane to "protect your hard-earned belongings", you're an idiot. And for the 100th time. I am not blaming the poor who did not have the means to leave.
You wanna know who has no empathy? The shit-for-brains goombas who kept helpless children in the path of this storm when they HAD THE MEANS AND BRAINS to leave. They make me sick.
It's a parent's RESPONSIBILITY to protect their children.
59 - Simon
Many of the poor didn't own much, they just could afford to travel. Payday was 3 days off and they live paycheck to paycheck.
60 - Robert
CNN
61 - RogerMDillion
Yeah, they should have gone for shelter like the Superdome or the convention center. We can all see how well that's working out.
By the way, Howard Beale's anger accomplished nothing other than getting him shot when his ratings went down. Try another movie, Silas.
62 - Bennett
Robert - If you're gonna post here, either learn how to make your links clickable, or bury them benieth the pearls of wisdom you have to contribute to the site. Otherwise they screw up the collumns and you look like a spammer...
Thanks!
63 - Robert
Bennet,
Maybe you should learn how to cut and paste.
64 - shannon
What people fail to understand is that there are alot of people living check to check these days....maybe ...I'm sure.... some of these people didnt have the means to get out of town . As far as the looters go...in a situation like this....I wouldnt take a tv or anything but if I needed water or bread and couldnt get back to my home....you bet I would grab that loaf and bottle!! It's about survival!!
65 - DrPat
Banging on the clueless to use an HTML link is a waste of time, Bennett. Usually an editor will notice the worst examples, and clean them up.
66 - carson
One thing I haven't seen addressed well is how the Mayor of New Orleans is crying to the press about the sluggishness of Federal response, when he should have had an evacuation plan and a response to a levee breach plan. Including something better than, we'll just throw sandbags at the hole. Given the potential for damage a few million dollars spent on developing a potential fix would have been cheap. We talk about all the poor people who couldn't leave, or the people who couldn't leave because they couldn't pay for gas. If you have a Cat 5 hurrican bearing down on you, gee... all of the gas stations might be wiped out, consider taking government control of all buses, gas stations, boats, trains, operate them evacuating people until the very last minute and hole everyone else up in the dome. They didn't even try, up until the storm hit they just said "leave!" if you can't go to the dome, the feds and state had to convince the Mayor to order an evacuation. The leadership in New Orleans felt that spending the money to prepare for the worst and the potential for political damage if there was no disaster outweighed the lives of their citizenry. The complete lack of leadership and planning should result in him being thrown to the angry mob. Looters in a desperate survival situation are not the problem, people preying on each other with guns and violence are the problem. If someone is stupid enough to think that stealing a tv in this situation is getting them ahead, let them burn the energy, hopefully that will be the energy they needed to survive that they wasted. Grabbing food, water, clothing well I don't think anyone would behave differently under similar circumstances.
C
67 - Mollie
I agree w/ alot of what you guys are saying(Silas). But what I don't understand is why didn't the people that work for the city of N.O. or even some of the military help those who were poor or disabled to get out of there. They were warned several days before the hurrican hit land. They may have saved several peoples lives. WHY in the world would anyone stay behind to protect their belongings, I would think that they would care more for their family's then material things.I feel for those who died because they had no way out because of lack of transportation,but those who stayed behind and who lost family and their babies due to stupidity. I think you should pay for what you did, those children couldn't have defended themselves. You should have to stay and help find those who are lost and who are dead and buried. If you are going to use what FEMA and A.R.C. has brought to help you, then you should stay and help us.(IF able)Those who are looting should pay dearly for what they stoled.What is a t.v. or vcr going to do when you have no electricity,HU! I would really like to know.
68 - Silas Kain
Imagine, Fidel Castro offered to send 1,100 doctors to the Gulf not once but twice. According to AP:
What disturbs me most upon hearing this news is that the American press has done little to bring this fact to the public. If Castro is telling the truth about the Administration's request to keep quiet about the offer we have a serious problem here.69 - Kay
Regardless of why the victims of Katrina stayed behind is of no significance because as we all
know, they did. More significantly however is they did not have to suffer and die the way they did while we Americans watched helplessly as they begged and pleaded for water, milk for their babies, and food. Sadly, we watched some of them die like animals while nothing, absolutely nothing was done to come to their aid for days, by the government.
One more note of importance, and the one I find most appalling " if we were watching the Katrina victims (not refugees) beg for their lives on national TV, so did our government officials who had the power to do something about it.
I am truly saddened for the victim’s trauma, particularly the aftermath of this catastrophic event. And yes, I want to know who is responsible for this inhumane, merciless cruelty and why. Moreover, my congressional representative had better have some answers in addition to responding to my memorandum calling for a congressional hearing.
What a disgraceful moment in history for America. The aftermath of this tragedy could have been avoided, if only the focus would have been about saving lives, human lives, and that did not happen.
70 - jack e. jett
yes....damm those people for being poor.
damm them for not having transportation or the resources to get out of the area.
far more important is that we are really helping create a better life in iraq.
jack jett
71 - Shannon
I'm in the Mobile, AL area and I left. A CAT 5 is nothing to mess with and this storm was very menacing. I think the only way you're going to get able-bodied people to evacuate is to go in with guns (ie. military police) and force them to leave. Have the busses waiting, tell them they have 15 min. to get what they need and get out. If they refuse, handcuff them and throw them in the bus. Otherwise, deal with all of this after the storm crap. I will never stay for anything as severe as this. We left for Ivan, Dennis & Katrina. Dennis turned out to be nothing for us, but I was still glad we left. Things are just that, things. My childrens' lives, my husband's life and my life is worth more then a house and a few trinkets....
72 - Shannon
And I think that it's ridiculous that nursing homes & such places as that were not evacuated by the authorities! Those people CAN'T do it themselves and the people that work there had their own families to worry about...the local government should have stepped in and got them out. I think the Mayor of N.O. really screwed up.....
73 - Robert
Jack,
Did you even READ the article or did you just read the headline? It was quited clear that I was not placing blame on those who could not get out because they were poor or infirm, etc. I was bringing light to those who had the resources to leave and refused to.
74 - Shannon
And there were a lot of those and there are still a lot of those refusing to be rescued when the helicopters & boats show up! What is us with these people? And those refusing to get on the bus because they wouldn't tell them where they were going?! Who the heck cares where you're going as long as it's far from there?!
75 - Shannon
Should read "What is UP with these people?" lol