I'm in a high school gym with 600+ Republican delegates. It's a fascinating look at the inner workings of party politics.
Hey, political junkies. I'm at the Texas Senate District 14 (more or less Travis County) Republican convention and it's dragging on so I might as well take advantage of the free wireless provided by the Austin ISD to put some notes out about the experience of attending a district convention. Special thanks to the folks from Americans for Prosperity who got bored and abandoned their booth in the convention hall, unwittingly providing me with a comfy place to sit down and share my thoughts.…
Article comments
76 - withheld
GOP-
One other thing...
Those who are strictly pro-life are these days so few in numbers that they could hardly make up an entire party. I think you will find that most Republicans are split on this issue. Most believe that there should be some form of regulation and restriction, but very few support an outright ban on abortion.
If you attempt to promote this policy and hold it as a standard for all candidates and partymembers to abide by, you will be sitting under a very empty tent.
If the party desires to grow, they need to accept that there is a broad spectrum of opinions on this issue, and that just because someone does not support an outright ban on abortion does not make them unqualified to be a republican.
My own mother, who votes straight ticket and is has had unwavering support for our president and even VP Cheney, does not support a ban on abortion. Trust me. You don't get more Republican than her.
Some people like beans in their chili. Some say this is an abomination. Both can still be Texans.
77 - Pablo
Dave,
Just a quick note bubba:
As I know you like to pass yourself off as a "true" conservative in the noblest of tradions, I thought you might appreciate what Barry Goldwater said in his book about the CFR.
Sen. Barry Goldwater wrote in his book With No Apologies: "Does it not seem strange to you that these men just happened to be CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) and just happened to be on the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve, that absolutely controls the money and interest rates of this great country. A privately owned organization ... which has absolutely nothing to do with the United States of America!"
I suspect however that you will come back with one of your usual diatribes suggesting that you are the expert on conservatism, and that everythin wrong with america is the liberals fault. LOL
Or maybe you will write back that Barry Goldwater was a neocon! hehehehe
You are one funny "conservative" Davey boy.
78 - Pablo
Dave,
On second thought perhaps you might instead of saying your a conservative, say that you are a
CFR conservative, hehehe. Or better yet a FED conservative in the noblest of traditions.
Btw, I liked that one post recently in one of your diatribes where you were talking about whats wrong with installing a tin-pot dictator in Iraq. Kinda reminds me of some of your rantings regarding my article on home grown terrorism, where you were defending US covert terrorism in south america. You really are quite the character Davey.
79 - spacebetween
GOP,
You said,
"But if they aren't pro-life or if abortion is not a big priority, then basically they are left with three issues - Iraq, legalizing drugs, and spending, and Republicans of all stripes are upset and we don't need Ronnie Reeferseed to tell us that."
Your generalization there seemed rather patronizing. You fail to see the point. Ron Paul supporters want SMALL GOVERNMENT. That means no intervention in other countries' affairs, and that means little to no intervention in the affairs of citizens. Some supporters may feel more strongly about legalizing drugs or getting out of Iraq. But, the main purpose is ALWAYS smaller government.
Dr. Paul, someone who has delivered over 4,000 babies personally, has great insight into the whole abortion thing. He has said that not once has he had to perform an abortion. It's not a very common thing that affects many people, like someone above stated. Thus, abortion cases may be very complicated. Local government is always better for that very reason. Some guy in Washington, D.C. cannot feasibly write such complicated laws that deal individually with 300 million people. That has always been a tenet of the Republican Party and conservatism. It is to that end that Ron Paul supporters are in complete agreement with other Republicans.
80 - Dave Nalle
Good try with the misdirection and sniping, Paul, but you made one fundamental error. I never claimed to be a 'conservative'. I'm a Republican and that's not necessarily the same thing.
Dave
81 - Dave Nalle
Withheld has one of the best summaries of RP's positions I've seen in #73. I haven't seen anything that clear from the Paul campaign or from Paul himself, and I'm inclined to think that some of it is projection and extrapolation of what he thinks Paul likely believes. But I certainly hope it's all true. It makes Paul sound a lot more reasonable and willing to compromise than I think he really is.
For me that's where RP and a lot of his supporters tend to come up short. They want it all their way and nothing less will do. I'd like to see some hint of compromise and practicality from them.
Edmund Burke, who was one of the ideological inspirations for the American Revolution, wrote "All government -- indeed, every human benefit and enjoyment, every virtue and every prudent act -- is founded on compromise and barter."
Without that ability to compromise you don't have a viable political environment.
McCain may have many flaws, but his great asset is his ability to compromise. This is why I see hope for the future. If we can get McCain elected with a stronger libertarian influence in the party we can make him compromise with the ideals of Ron Paul rather than with the ideals of the socialists on the left, and the result might be a better, more liberty-oriented McCain, which wouldn't be a bad thing.
Dave
82 - GOP
****Your generalization there seemed rather patronizing. You fail to see the point. Ron Paul supporters want SMALL GOVERNMENT. That means no intervention in other countries' affairs, and that means little to no intervention in the affairs of citizens. Some supporters may feel more strongly about legalizing drugs or getting out of Iraq. But, the main purpose is ALWAYS smaller government.*****
Not patronizing at all. In fact, that's exactly what I said - Iraq ("little to no intervention in other countries' affairs"), legalizing drugs ("little to no intervention in the affairs of its citizens"), and spending ("the main purpose is ALWAYS smaller government").
So if Ron Paul is president and nominates justices who favor overturning Roe, you're OK with that and will support them? Realize, these will be Scalia/Thomas types, not Kennedy/O'Conner types. And if Roe is overturned, you're not going to join or sympathize with the masses of lefties who will be screaming on the steps of the Capitol for months on end?
83 - troll
HOT DAMN - Barr for Pres - !
84 - Kaleb
Speaking for myself, I would be happy with more Scalia/Thomas types, especially if this type includes judges like Andrew Napolitano who have a great respect for the 4th Amendment. And from my experiences with other people inspired by Ron Paul, I would guess that sentiment is in the clear majority.
What galls me most about GOP support for the Bush administration is the fact that this DOJ is doing all the things -and worse- that Republicans rightly screamed about during the Clinton years: claiming state secrets, politically-motivated prosecution of appointees, classification of public documents (the Yoo memos, for the latest example), and on and on. All of these activities obfuscate the citizen's view of what his government is doing to his fellow citizens, and without that view we can never move in the direction of limited government. I'm so sick of being told to trust the motivations of people in power. (Which demand, btw, was a major flaw in the presentation of the Rules Committee's Majority Report at the convention.) Faith in a person's character is not a sufficient substitute for a paper trail of accountability, and Republicans post-Bill Clinton ought to realize that better than most.
/rant
85 - Dave Nalle
Bob Barr? You've got to be kidding. I'll be flabbergasted if he gets the libertarian nomination. His candidacy is something dreamed up by the Washington Times to annoy McCain.
He'll be booed off the stage at the LP convention if anyone there has read his congressional voting record.
Barr:
Authored the Defense of Marriage Act
Authored legislation opposing state legalization of medical marijuana
Voted for the Patriot Act
Voted for the War in Iraq
Ran Against John Linder (FairTax) for Congress
Tried to ban Wiccanism in the military (many soldiers have gone pagan in recent years)
Barr is more of a religious nut job than Ron Paul and he's closer to being a real neocon than most people who are accused of it, even if he has spoken out against the neocons in the Bush administration.
Opposing Bush because he's not conservative enough doesn't actually make you a libertarian despite Barr's claims.
Dave
86 - Pablo
Dave,
Thanks for clarifying your not being a conservative, I suspected as much all along, so I must thank you for your honesty. I agree that your political philosophy as I understand it us much more akin to the neo-cons and CFR WFB (skull and bones) type of republicans. Those that have no aversion to a ruling class, and have absolutetly no problem with ignoring the bill of rights, due process, and limitations on free speech. I put the following republicans into the same camp Dave.
Armitage, Powell, Elliot Abrahms, WFB (God rest his soul), Krauthhammer, Cheney, Hatch, Ronnie Reagan, his suck up adopted child, and varous others, as there are too many to name.
I never thought you were a true conservative Dave, such as Goldwater was, but just another typical republican who has absolutely NO idea what real freedom is, and has no respect whatosever as to the sovereign integrity of another nation.
There is only one type of rebublican I like, and this comes from a guy who was raised as a liberal democrat. I like the Gary Allen (none dare call it conspiracy) type of republican, the Goldwater conservative, the rest of you are fakes and quite frankly have no idea who really runs either this country or the world. Ignorance is bliss, just ask
Clavos.
Thanks again Dave for your clarification, and I will not make the mistake of characterizing you as a conservative again.
87 - Dave Nalle
Pablo, good thing I believe in the legalization of drugs because I wouldn't want you to get arrested for whatever you're smoking.
Thanks for clarifying your not being a conservative, I suspected as much all along, so I must thank you for your honesty. I agree that your political philosophy as I understand it us much more akin to the neo-cons and CFR WFB (skull and bones) type of republicans. Those that have no aversion to a ruling class, and have absolutetly no problem with ignoring the bill of rights, due process, and limitations on free speech. I put the following republicans into the same camp Dave.
As you know perfectly well, the only thing I have in common with those groups of statist nutbags is that I think that a merit based elite will inevitably be influential in any free society.
never thought you were a true conservative Dave, such as Goldwater was, but just another typical republican who has absolutely NO idea what real freedom is, and has no respect whatosever as to the sovereign integrity of another nation.
Actually, I'm EXACTLY what Goldwater was, a traditional Republican who believes in liberal social policy and conservative fiscal policy.
Goldwater certainly wouldn't have sided with the faction of loonies and halfwits which you attempt to speak for.
There is only one type of rebublican I like, and this comes from a guy who was raised as a liberal democrat.
Just like the neocons and most of the religious right.
I like the Gary Allen (none dare call it conspiracy) type of republican, the Goldwater conservative, the rest of you are fakes and quite frankly have no idea who really runs either this country or the world.
You really ought to read some of Goldwater's writing sometime so you come off as just a little less ignorant. Then you might be ready to put aside your childish fantasies and sart discussing politics in a serious way.
Pablum, your only real disagreement with me is that you believe in conspiracy fantasies and I believe in reality.
Dave
88 - Pablo
Dave you said:
your only real disagreement with me is that you believe in conspiracy fantasies and I believe in reality.
Believing that 19 Arabs from Saudi Arabia living in caves in Afghanistan successfully infiltrated and attacked the most militarily powerful nation the earth has ever seen, with box cutters I would call a conspiracy fantasy of the highest order. Some people will believe ANYTHING. I have some beautiful forested land available for sale in the Sudan Dave. Send me an email and I will give you a great deal bucko.
Don't you think its time to come back to reality Dave? You obviously have had your brain washed a few times too many there fella.
89 - Clavos
Pot...meet kettle...
90 - Jet in Columbus
Ma & Pa Kettle and their 16 kids-nice family; though I wasn't aware they smoked pot?
91 - Pablo
Dave,
You missed Jessie Ventura today on Alex jones dude.
A great hour, and Jessie also says that he thinks 9-11 was an inside job. He also said that right after he became governnor of Minnesota, he was visited by 30 cia agents, none of whom would give their names. When Jessie asked them about their charter which specifically prohibited them form operating in the USA, they just hemmed and hawed.
I would offer to send you the tape, as well as pdf books on the Tavistock Institute of Public Relations, as well as numerous other gems in my possession, but as your mind is as closed as any other typical republican, it would be wasted on ya. Good luck Davey your gonna need it.
92 - Clavos
Ah yes.
One of Garrison Keillor's favorite satirical targets, Governor Jimmy (Big Boy) Valente...
93 - Pablo
Dave you said:
"You really ought to read some of Goldwater's writing sometime so you come off as just a little less ignorant".
Umm to you mean something like this Davey?
From "Barry Goldwater: With No Apologies"
From the Personal and Political Memoirs of United States Senator Barry M. Goldwater
"The Council on Foreign Relations has placed its members in policy-making with the State Department and other federal agencies. Every secretary of State since 1944, with the exception of James F Byrnes, has been a member of the council. Almost without exception, its members are united by a congeniality of birth, economic status and educational background.
I believe the Council on Foreign Relations and its ancillary elitist groups are indifferent to communism. They have no ideological anchors. In their pursuit of a new world order they are prepared to deal without prejudice with a communist state, a socialist state, a democratic state, monarchy, oligarchy"it’s all the same to them.
Rear Admiral Chester Ward, USN (Retd.), who was a member of the CFR for sixteen years, has written, “The most powerful clique in these elitist groups have one objective in common"they want to bring about the surrender of the sovereignty and the national independence of the United States.” Their goal is to impose a benign stability on the quarreling family of nations through the merger and consolidation. They see the elimination of national boundaries, the suppression of racial and ethnic loyalties as the most expeditious avenue to world peace. Their rationale rests exclusively on materialism. They believe economic competition is the root cause of international tension. This approach dismisses as insignificant the form of government or the political ideology expressed by that form."
Is that what you meant by reading Barry Goldwater Davey? Ummm Ok :)
Ready to wake up yet Dave? Or is the slumber making you fuzzy.
94 - Dave Nalle
Why would one, much less 30 CIA agents visit Jessie (sic)? As usual, the conspiracy theories make no sense at all. Sorry to hear that 'The Body' has finally lost his mind.
Dave
95 - Dave Nalle
Pablo, this article from Minnesota Public Radio might help clear up some of your confusion.
Dave
96 - Dave Nalle
Ah, Pablo. I forgot that you're incapable of reading with comprehension.
Look at the quote from Ward again. Do you see how he clearly differentiates between a small elite globalist cadre and the CFR in general? These kinds of distinctions are enormously important.
It's from ignoring that kind of distinction that conspiracy theories are born.
Dave
97 - Pablo
As usual your caustic remarks are cute at best Davey, as to Jessie Ventura, I do not recall saying there was a conspiracy, but was only commenting on it as I heard his interview today. Are you suggesting he was lying? Or perhaps delusional sitting in he new Governor's chair. Or are you just out to lunch as usual. I am not aware of anyone of note questioning Mr. Ventura's honesty as to his words. I mentioned it only to show how odd our country has become. If true, as I believe him, it is very sad, and troubling. Even an apple pie american guy like you should agree Davey.
Keep your caustic remarks coming, I alway enjoy returning the favor. Perhaps, and I doubt it, one day you will actually learn how to use words to debate, rather than to condescend, to learn rather than to be pompous, and to engage. You would rather sit there on your high horse thinking you know whats going on and arrogantly sharing your "wisdom" with the masses. I will always return your ugly remarks with my attempted wit and retort.
Please let me know Dave if the day should come, when you actually would like to debate, rather than insult. I know, I know, I know, it makes you feel smug and superior, but hey your not a kid anymore Dave, You might even God forbid learn something about the world from an old fart like me.
Until that time Dave, I will continue to treat you exactly as you have treated me. Enjoy your superiority, and your ignorance.
98 - Pablo
Oh and Davey?
I like this one line out of the above url you listed about Mr. Ventura's coffee with the CIA.
"But Durenberger said he thinks the agency would be stretched to assign operatives to every state capitol and send 23 agents to attend the same meeting."
That one had me cracking up. I forget Dave what was their black op budget last year? They have agents in literally every country on the face of the planet, and for all intents and purposes an unlimited budget, but they are stretched to assing operatives to every state. HAHAHA
You go believe the senator or cia, I will believe Jessie any day of the fuckin week over those yoyos.
Got any other cute URL's there Davey?
99 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Re #95.
I went to the MPR link and read the article. Ventura looks like a fat old man. Leaving the personal compliments and kind remarks aside, I never thought too much of Wodele when Ventura was in office, which is the time period around when we left America.
Ventura's assessment of this meeting with CIA types does not surprise me. There is still (there always was this element in his comments) of "how did the wrestler elbow out the 'pros' from running Minnesota?"
My assessment of him remains unchanged. He was a good times governor for good times. When the dot.com crash took place and started eating away at the surplus in Minnesota's budget, it wasn't good times anymore. When he had to start cutting agency budgets, Ventura decided he'd had enough and took his big ego and big mouth and headed back to the suburbs where people like him belong.
My wife's (the native Minnesotan) comment on the MPR article. "A lot of good space was wasted on that article that could have been used on something more important."
100 - Pablo
Wow Ruvy,
I am really impressed. This is the first time that I can recall that you werent writing about your homeland. Will this trend continue?
If your going to respond that all I ever talk about is US politics its true, however that seems to be the runnning theme of the political segment of this magazine.
I never said that I was a big fan of Mr. Ventura, I am however of Alex! That being said Ruvy, the fact that cia agents were visiting a state governor uninvited to boot, should send chills down any freedom loving american. I found his interview on Mr. Jones site that was an hour long to be far more interesting than milktoast Larry King.
I rarely comment on your posts because I do not find Israeli politics to be particularly interesting for me personally, no insult to your nation intended sir.
As to your wife's comment regarding wasting valuable space. Perhaps you should give her a quick lesson on websites, and the fact that there isnt any valuable space per se on the web, its dirt cheap to put another page up, for all intents and purposes its free. Nothing wasted, excpept perhaps her time, which is another story.
101 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Paul,
If you look at my comments on the American presidential race, you'll see that they follow a consistent theme, one which doesn't necessarily have to do with Israel. That theme is that whatever the rights or wrongs of the matter, your country can no longer afford to be in Iraq. Your involvement there is bankrupting you.
If you remember, I tend to agree with you about the CFR and the various biggies draining the American economy. The book A Century of War, by William Engdahl, confirms all this without spelling out what others dismiss as conspiracy theory.
As for Ron Paul, unfortunately, he seems to have a spotted history concerning Jew-hatred. But his one positive concept, so far as I was concerned, was pulling American troops out of many of the places where they don't belong. Frankly, the media shunting him aside so that he did not have a Chinaman's chance of winning did him the favor of keeping him alive. The shadow government that runs your country would have had him killed if he did not knuckle under to the directives of those who employ the CFR, the oil and banking establishment.
If Obama gets the Democratic nomination, the same thing may happen to him, if he does not knuckle under to those who employ the CFR. Remember all the blood and death that surrounded the Clintons in office a decade ago. The media protecting Obama the way the Israeli media protected Rabin, Sharon and now (to a far lesser extent) Olmert, may just be a swift ride to his own grave. Consider where Sharon is now and where Rabin is now, just to mention two examples....
Having been squeezed for the concessions that they could give the American oil and banking establishment, they were spit out like sunflower seeds. These assholes play for keeps.
But returning to my commenting on American politics, where I think it is relevant, I do comment. See upthread, comment #15.
At some levels, America is still a functioning democracy, which is more than can be said for the falafel republic I live in now. But, on the other hand, I did not move here to worship at the altar of democracy.
This senate district convention that Dave so ably covered, whatever you think of his views, is an example of democracy still functioning in America - more or less....
102 - Clavos
"
This senate district convention that Dave so ably covered, whatever you think of his views, is an example of democracy still functioning in America - more or less...."
Interesting.
I saw the description of what went on at that district convention as a microcosm of the inherent chaos and ineffectiveness of democracies. A camel, as the saying goes, is a horse designed by a committee.
Which is why the Founders did not set up, and never intended for, this country to be a democracy, despite what grade school civics teachers have been brainwashing kids with for generations.
103 - Dave Nalle
I think I'm with Clavos on this issue. Democracy is a crude and ugly way to run anything. It's also not terribly effective. The story I wrote here is really one of the struggle between democracy and the rule of law, and what we ended up with was somewhere inbetween, which I think is about as good as you can get when those two forces are involved. Too much democracy is mob rule and too much rules and structures takes out the representative element of the process.
Dave
104 - wildnfree
Dave,
I must say that this was an enjoyable little article. I actually like the term renegade republican! Although if anyone were to read the words of Buckley (who paved the way for the conservative commentators of today), they would call them retro-republicans. Tell me that they have a future, and get McCain to promise us that he will endeavor to undo or stop whatever B.S. Bush and congress do to attempt to "fix" (read collectivize) the housing industry. I agree with what he says on this and hope he can follow through. Who knows I might not vote for Wayne A. Root this time.
I am thankful that at the few local Republican Party events that I attended here in SC, that all of the politically informed people were polite and welcoming. The problems came when when dealing with Bubba Joe in his rebel flag painted monster truck who would call us commies because we; A. wanted to reduce the size of the government B. get rid of the IRS,BATFE, Depts. of Agriculture, Homeland Security etc., and C. stop killing little brown people.
It's true that a lot of Paulites do not realize that a lot of what they believe in is already part of the party platform. It just gets overlooked or sacrificed on the altar of political expediency, but it is there.
I really believe that a lot of the haters show up ignorant of what they are supporting and this what causes so much of the problems that they create.
But I hope this little revolution continues because every little step in the right direction helps.
105 - Dave Nalle
I must say that this was an enjoyable little article. I actually like the term renegade republican!
I like the term too. I think they should play it up and take it nationwide. It's a lot more viable in the loing term than sticking with Ron Paul as their identifier.
Although if anyone were to read the words of Buckley (who paved the way for the conservative commentators of today), they would call them retro-republicans.
The term a lot of them use is 'paleo-republican', but I'm not sure it's really accuratge.
Tell me that they have a future, and get McCain to promise us that he will endeavor to undo or stop whatever B.S. Bush and congress do to attempt to "fix" (read collectivize) the housing industry. I agree with what he says on this and hope he can follow through.
I think they don't get McCain at all. If they understood him they might realize that he's their best hope. I think he would be easy for them to influence. He's already philosophically sympathetic to them and he's also receptive to negotiation. If they approached him the right way I think they could push him towards a much more libertarian position on a lot of issues. It's a much more realistic strategy than continuing to stump for the unelectable Ron Paul.
The problems came when when dealing with Bubba Joe in his rebel flag painted monster truck who would call us commies because we; A. wanted to reduce the size of the government B. get rid of the IRS,BATFE, Depts. of Agriculture, Homeland Security etc., and C. stop killing little brown people.
You breed your bubbas differently in SC. Here in Texas the bubbas are all on board with Ron Paul and striking out at the government.
It's true that a lot of Paulites do not realize that a lot of what they believe in is already part of the party platform. It just gets overlooked or sacrificed on the altar of political expediency, but it is there.
I really believe that a lot of the haters show up ignorant of what they are supporting and this what causes so much of the problems that they create.
Well, if everyone comes in with a hostile attitude then they're never going to find the common ground that they share.
Dave
106 - wildnfree
Dave, most of our Bubbas here were Huckabee supporters. They have no problem with big government as long as everyone is forced to live by the moral code that they deem appropriate. As I said they have no concept of true republicanism.
The Paul supporters in my group were a mixed bag of college kids, artists, small business men, gothic 20 somethings, bikers, backwoodsmen, Libertarian and Constitution party members, and other assorted weirdos (by SC standards anyway). Even today at my office people think that I'm some kind of radical anarchist nut case.
Oh well you gotta love this game even if it does get you dirty sometimes.
107 - Dave Nalle
Chances are that most of your bubbas were democrats at one time either when they were younger or a generation back in the family tree. Good ole southern democrats with a bible in one hand and the other one pulling down their white hood. Pretty much the opposite of real Republicans.
But then you guys DO have Mark Sanford, the guy who is going to actually do what Ron Paul is trying to do in this election, come 2012.
Dave
108 - wildnfree
Very true. I my self am descended from several generations of good ;} democrats. My grandpa spent nearly an hour cussing at me when I showed up at his house with a Reagan button on in '84. (my first election!)
Sanford does have the ability to pull off the smooth act and bite his tongue when it is appropriate, something that Paul has never had, and never will get.
The problem will come in getting us to let go of Sanford! He is probably the most successful Republican governor of my adulthood.
It amazed me that he got elected the first time because all of his ads carried the statement "Libertarian/Republican" I voted for him but thought that he was doomed.
109 - Dave Nalle
I wish Sanford were running this year, but I can understand why he wouldn't want to. After a disastrous Obama administration the public will be so eager for responsible government that Sanford will have a much easier time of it. I just don't look forward to four years of hell.
Dave