As the dollar sinks is the greenback government striking back against hard-money entrepreneurism?
Early Thursday morning federal agents from the Secret Service and FBI raided the Evansville, Indiana offices of NORFED, makers of the Liberty Dollar and other alternative 'barter' currencies of which they claim to have $20 million dollars in circulation. The business, owned by Bernard von Nothaus, mints copper, gold, silver and platinum coinage and produces paper certificates with fixed values based on their reserve of gold and silver.…
Article comments
226 - Dr Dreadful
Dave,
I wonder - exactly how upset are you that this thread on your rather off-the-wall piece about Liberty Dollars has degenerated into a lengthy symposium of etymological bickering and international soccer?
On which latter topic, the draw for the 2010 World Cup qualifying tournament was just made in Durban, South Africa, and guess what? England came out of the pot with Croatia - again.
Perhaps I shouldn't pack my bags for a nice trip to the Cape just yet...
227 - gonzo marx
troll...was stated in the thread that the Incidents occurred in
Franco - there was an Incident previously where Vox/Nalle used two names in the same thread to bolster his own argument ("I've seen figures similar to..."), then went back and changed the Comments when busted on it
the ethics of Integrity, imo
Excelsior?
228 - troll
...all that I remember is a rather lame commitment from Chris to keep an eye on things
229 - Christopher Rose
Dave, the truth is not subjective, the interpretation of it is. Reality just is, it doesn't care what we think of it, just like this planet doesn't care if humanity survives or not. This is at the root of your cognitive dissonance.
Franco, none of the editors have greater authority than any other. The fact that Dave is the politics editor whilst Mark is one of the assistant politics editor doesn't mean that Dave is his boss.
Blogcritics has a somewhat odd hierarchy wherein there is a ruling troika, the site owners, and everybody else is on an equal footing, regardless of their job title.
Our role is to prepare articles for publication by ensuring they are properly written and beyond that, try to come up with creative ideas to make individual sections more interesting.
230 - REMF
"I am not going to take sides but the one with more authority should surly be the one trying to set a good example."
- Franco
I guess that would explain why you don't care if Nalle hasn't/doesn't "set a good example" himself; ie, calling commenters "dumbass" or "moron", or telling commenters to "blow me."
231 - Franco
#230 " REMF
I think I saw him use “dumbass” or “moron” towards the likes of the moonbuzzard types. Yes we all fall short from using the ad hominem attack for one reason or anther. On a respective note, a review of CR posts to Dave would show its own similar traits.
My statement about not taking sides is based on the fact that both Dave and CR are willing to post meaningful and well thought out posts in this arena. They are willing to stick their ass into this meat grinder and give full and intellectual options while minimizing their ad hominem attacks. So what little ad hominem they comment in the process are worth stepping over out of the greater respect for their willingness to fully step into the arena of ideas and discuss/debate.
However for those who won’t step fully in this arena and who choose instead to only post excessive ad hominem attracts, that makes it the only thing to comment on.
232 - Dave Nalle
I wonder - exactly how upset are you that this thread on your rather off-the-wall piece about Liberty Dollars has degenerated into a lengthy symposium of etymological bickering and international soccer?
An actual relevant question. Thanks, Dr. D. It's the only thing about this silliness which bothers me significantly.
The Vox Populi business is water under the bridge and was trivial from the outset. The issue of Christopher Rose's bizarre desire to air editorial business in public will be dealt with offline. I'm not going to stoop to his level.
But yes, it does offend me that CR popped in when this potentially interesting thread was only 11 comments old and began to misdirect it by making a personal issue of my misspelling of 'affidavit'. Totally uncalled for, inappropriate and disruptive.
One of my main roles here at BC and especially in the Politics section is to get interesting discussions going so that our articles become more than just typical blog posts that sit there and get ignored. Discussion draws readers and gets our writers exposure, brings more people to BC and ultimately generates future writers and more good articles.
Interfering with that process is undesirable when it's done by trolls like MCH/REMF and Moonraven who ultimately just want every discussion to be about them, and unacceptable when it's done by a fellow editor.
And Franco, thanks for your comments. Nice to see someone with a bit of common sense addressing this issue.
That said, I think I'm done. There are articles to be edited and much more interesting discussions to be involved in - go check out SJ Reidhead's article for something provocative and IMO important.
Dave
233 - RJ
gonzo marx typed:
i thought one of the conditions on the entire Vox scandal was that NO ONE, except the Comment Editor could now adjust/edit comments?
if such is NOT the case, and Vox has access to the Record, then ALL semblance of Credibility has just gone completely down the shitter
either post the Reply here, or e-mail me..imo, this is fucking crucial
If such a thing is "crucial" to your life, you really need to get out more, man...
234 - RJ
"my Response to this Revelation is in the Chavez thread...but i'll paste it here too, for the sake of being obnoxious"
Fixed it for ya...
235 - RJ
"this entire website has LESS legitimacy than Baghdad Bob, or Robert Novak, or Pravda"
What do you have against Bob Novak? (Other than the fact that he's a conservative, of course...)
Anyway, if this "revelation" distresses you so much, you could always spend your valuable commenting time at the Huffington Post or the Democratic Underground. I'm sure you'd fit in quite well over there.
236 - gonzo marx
never been to either , RJ...nor Drudge or any of the like
oh yeah...bite me , fanboi
there, fucked that for ya!
237 - Christopher Rose
In my final words on this issue:- I don't think it bizarre to air editorial issues in public, I think it is bizarre to try and keep them secret, particularly when they directly impact on the many diverse visitors to this site, but then I'm not an elitist.
Yes, it does offend me that a very mild joke is mis-characterised as a personal issue and then perpetuated into a silly argument for days, nor do I think the Vox Populi issue was trivial. Although I have steadfastly defended Dave over this, I certainly don't see it as the perpetrator's role to characterise it.
Whatever else any editor's role may be, it is not to characterise ANY user of this site as a troll, no matter how wacky their views. MCH and moonraven are absolutely the two people who get the most editing or deleting of their comments, but that doesn't mean that everything they say is irrelevant.
Indeed, although I often disagree with their perspectives, I appreciate what they have to say, as it makes me consider things I might otherwise ignore and I absolutely loathe the exclusionist, elitist approach of some.
Once again, I would like to confirm that there is currently absolutely no requirement for any thread to remain on topic, so by definition it can not possibly be unacceptable to talk about anything and any attempt to suggest otherwise is simply an effort to shape or control events.
One of the things that keeps me coming back to BC is that it is a wild carnival of views and different perspectives. I really wouldn't like to see it reduced to just certain narrower perspectives, regardless of whether those perspectives were shared by me.
As I said at the beginning of this comment, these are absolutely my final words on this whole Nalleian subject, so anybody who cares to is welcome to the last word.
238 - gonzo marx
fair enough Chris...
last word?
bye
239 - troll
so...we're doing final words - ?
well...I never trusted those slithy toves with all their gyre-ing and gimble-ing anyway and have always been simpatico with the bandersnatch
...and you can quote me on that
240 - Christopher Rose
gonzo, see ya, it's been excelsiorent.
troll, I've always been partial to a little bandersnatch myself.
241 - REMF
"What do you have against Bob Novak? (Other than the fact that he's a conservative, of course...)"
- RJ Elliott
You mean, other than the fact than none of his children (of military age all) have served in the war he "supports"??
242 - Vinyasi
Does the U.S. Govt. Owe YOU Money?
Hearing about the raid on the national fulfillment office of the Liberty Dollar didn't put me in the fit of pink, but I learned to get over it by donating all of my interest in my unfulfilled orders (that were either curtailed or confiscated by the government on Nov. 14). And to encourage greater participation among bystanders, I've further divided my give-away down to as little as one penny provided that these tiny demands for refund be donated to the Liberty Dollar, Legal Defense Fund to help eliminate the logistical nightmare of the Liberty Dollar staff trying to disperse a mere penny to gazillions of people from the proceeds gained whenever the class action lawsuit is completed. But demands for refund which are greater than, or equal to, a dollar could go to the bystander. Since I can contract-out my property to anyone I choose, and further subdivide my give-away down to ridiculously small fractions, my feeble loss (as great as it may seem to me) can be magnified to potentially include lots of participation from anyone who isn't already involved, but who might now consider the possibility that more than just my rights have been violated, but their's as well.
For more details about becoming involved, go to www.I-Rob-You.info
Vinyasi, Liberty Associate of the San Fernando Valley....
243 - AnonguyS916
The law they supposedly violated (From the FBI's affidavit) is:
"Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or sliver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall he fined under this title or imprisoned not more than. five years, or both."
BUT... "current money" = "lawful money" = "Any money (coin or paper) that is issued directly by the United States Treasury and not the Federal Reserve System - this includes gold and silver coin, Notes, Bonds, etc."... So it seems they're just being charged with making counterfeit US currency, which is total B.S., they go out of their way to make it clear that it's not United States currency.
Definitions: "current money", "lawful money".
Unless the US Code has some totally different definition for these terms it seems the FBI and prosecutors don't have a leg to stand on...