As the dollar sinks is the greenback government striking back against hard-money entrepreneurism?
Early Thursday morning federal agents from the Secret Service and FBI raided the Evansville, Indiana offices of NORFED, makers of the Liberty Dollar and other alternative 'barter' currencies of which they claim to have $20 million dollars in circulation. The business, owned by Bernard von Nothaus, mints copper, gold, silver and platinum coinage and produces paper certificates with fixed values based on their reserve of gold and silver.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Clavos
""Dave Nalle has been a magazine editor, freelance writer, capitol hill staffer, game designer and taught college history for many years." But can't spell affidavits! Fixed it for you..."
That was snarky, and unworthy of an editor. But then, you're not really an editor so much as a censor.
Further, it was gratuitous and in direct contravention of your duties. You're supposed to be deleting personal attacks, not making them.
27 - Christopher Rose
Dave, I've never used the word in my life but I know how to spell it, just like I know how to spell antidisestablishmentarianism, supercalifragilisticexpialidocious and even llanfairpwllgwyngyll gogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch* (had to split it in two because it was too long) for that matter! And I hate Welsh!!
* It means "St Mary's Church in the white hazel hollow near a rapid whirlpool and the church of Saint Tysilio of the red cave".
28 - Christopher Rose
Clavos, you are mistaken several times over.
1. It's not snarky. I had to look the word up but apparently it means "A colloquialism meaning short-tempered or snappish", which is a far more accurate description of you. I was laughing!
2. I am an editor and publish and edit articles frequently in addition to comment editing. You wouldn't know that as you're not an editor or privy to what we do. I just wish I had more time to write but I'm in mid-relocation right now. That's my latest excuse anyhow!
3. I'll give you half a point for gratuitous as it was complimentary but you could have scored two.
4. It can't have been a personal attack as it was a matter of fact. It was making fun of the corpulent one, but he mocks people all the time - far more cruelly and rudely - and he can and did take it in his stride, if not exactly in the spirit it was intended.
You've been so argumentative and contentious recently that you seem to have entirely lost any sense of humour you once had. I wish Stan was here more often to cheer you up, you sulky, cantankerous old sod (an informal British term for a youth or man) you!
29 - Mark Saleski
"that's what it was intended to be used as for all practical purposes."
though not exactly the same thing, this reminds of the artist named (i think) "boggs", who made hand drawn replicas of u.s. currency. they were works of art...and he tried to use them in barter situations...the treasury didn't like him much either.
can't remember how the whole thing turned out.
anybody else remember this?
30 - gonzo marx
yep Mark..he got arrested, but was turned loose on his own recognizance, as long as he promised not to do it again
by "it" i mean attempt to barter his artwork as cash, his problem was in going to a restaurant, eating and trying to pay with his drawn money
i don't have a link handy, but it was a big Funny in the news at the time
Excelsior?
31 - Mark Saleski
i think i saw it on 60 minutes or something...because i do remember the restaurant situation...and the funny looks on faces when he presented the "this is art, how much would you pay for it" idea.
32 - Dr Dreadful
And I hate Welsh!!
Cristo Rhosyn, what have you got against Welsh? It's a beautiful, poetic and elegant tongue which, moreover, is the oldest living language in Europe (with the possible exception of Basque). It's stood the test of time despite overwhelming pressure from English and despite being the vernacular of only a tiny population.
I love hearing it spoken. I even speak a little of it myself.
But then, I guess some folks can't stand Michelangelo's Sistine Chapel ceiling either. Perlau gwerthfawr y foch.
33 - bliffle
One component of the federal interest in all competitive currencies is Money Laundering, which enables people to escape the watchful eye of the Central Authority. Already they are tightening up bank laws and also, interestingly, the fake currencies of various computer games. Apparently, there is quite a trade in these game currencies and internet Identity Thieves use them to launder their billions of ill-gotten gains.
Lamentably, the Central Authorities pursue this stuff less to protect the public than to increase their visibility into peoples private affairs. This seems to have bi-partisan support, whether the Chiefs name is George or Hillary, but especially if ones name is Dick.
Of course, the federal government itself is too fond of issuing fiat money and prefers to have the field to itself. In fact we are all fond of fiat money, which is why we seek leverage in house loans, mutual funds, holding companies, etc. We all want to bet in the stockmarket with low margin and thus leverage ourselves to riches. Heaven forfend that we actually work for money hewing wood and carrying water.
34 - Christopher Rose
Doc, it comes from having lived there at a time when Welsh nationalism was having one of its little resurgences.
Apart from the nasty habit of fire-bombing homes owned by English people, my personal experience was of about a thousand hick Welsh kids trying to beat the crap out of six English kids every school day. They lost, of course, but that's not the point!
I guess Welsh does have a certain poetic quality to it but there are other more beautiful languages too. So Genir pawb yn rhydd ac yn gydradd â'i gilydd mewn urddas a hawliau. Fe'u cynysgaeddir â rheswm a chydwybod, a dylai pawb ymddwyn y naill at y llall mewn ysbryd cymodlon to you!
35 - Clavos
"Heaven forfend that we actually work for money hewing wood and carrying water."
Have to leave something for the immigrants to do...
36 - Bob
bottom line, as far as i am Aware...a private business is prohibited by Law to compete with the Federal Reserve...
States are prohibited by law from issuing currency. Private concerns are free to issue currency. There is no law that prohibits any of us from issuing our own currency.
If private interests couldn't issue money, the Federal Reserve itself would be illegal instead of merely immoral and unethical.
37 - Dr Dreadful
Amen to that, you old heathen!
(Article One of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, for those who might be curious.)
I would add...
A ddim yn casewch Cymraeg!
38 - Travis
I was robbed. Actually robbed by the government that is supposed to protect me. I pay my taxes to buy them guns and they break in and rob me of my money. I had a $200 order waiting to be filled that I will never see. They robbed me of $200. The "Land of the Free"? More like "Home of the Slave".
I feel civil war coming. I feel like I need to go buy as many guns as I can. They will be breaking in my home any day now.
My God. How did this happen?
39 - Dr Dreadful
Enter, stage left, Moonraven, informing us that she not only speaks fluent Welsh but also, during the early 1970s, compiled the world's first Mohawk-Welsh dictionary, and that consequently she is the world's sole and supreme authority on the language and we are all talking out of our bee-hinds.
40 - Dave Nalle
Dave, I've never used the word in my life but I know how to spell it, just like I know how to spell antidisestablishmentarianism, supercalifragilisticexpialidocious and even llanfairpwllgwyngyll gogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch* (had to split it in two because it was too long) for that matter! And I hate Welsh!!
You can spell all of that, and yet you don't know the meaning of 'snarky'. You remind me of someoneelse around here (she who shall not be named) who knows everything but understands nothing.
And Welsh is a lovely language so long as you understand that every letter in it either sounds like a cat coughing up a hairball or some variation of 'u'.
Dave
41 - Dave Nalle
I was robbed. Actually robbed by the government that is supposed to protect me. I pay my taxes to buy them guns and they break in and rob me of my money. I had a $200 order waiting to be filled that I will never see. They robbed me of $200. The "Land of the Free"? More like "Home of the Slave".
This is certainly my biggest concern. There's no excuse for citizens who had orders pending not getting their money back if that's what ends up happening.
I feel civil war coming. I feel like I need to go buy as many guns as I can. They will be breaking in my home any day now.
And it's those guns they'll be coming to get.
Dave
42 - Christopher Rose
Snarky is a relatively new word and not used much at all in Europe, in fact I've never seen it outside of this and a few other websites. Affidavit and the other (English) words referred to are pretty familiar to most people with a good grasp of the language I would have thought.
I fail to see how you get from there to insulting me. I'm guessing it is a typical Nalleian cheap shot because I referred to you accurately as corpulent and your similarly proportioned ego is now sulking. Now that's snarky!
I'm sure my grasp of Welsh is far inferior to yours but the beauty of it is something that mostly eludes me.
My favourite languages are English (particularly as spoken in the Northern half of England and specifically excluding that revolting geezer version they speak in and around certain areas of London), Andalucian and Castillian Spanish (in that order) and Flemish. I also love the sound of Portuguese and Russian, which are both capable of inducing magically mindbending effects just by hearing them.
43 - handyguy
Von Nuthouse seems to me well named, the government seems to have acted properly, the paranoia being spread in the comments section here is quite laughable [also mildly frightening]. Articles about guns on here bring out the same sort of loon responses [occasionally written by Dave himself].
If von Nothaus was running a criminal enterprise, customers of same could be expected to lose their money, yes. Buyers of illegal drugs or stolen property would also not be reimbursed after a law enforcement raid.
Yawn.
44 - Dave Nalle
Christopher, I freely admit to being a man of great substance and great appetites. Doesn't bother me.
My only objection is that you don't know when to keep your figurative yap shut.
Dave
45 - gonzo marx
"My only objection is that you don't know when to keep your figurative yap shut."
oh the Irony...
the Tao of D'oh
Excelsior?
46 - Dave Nalle
Von Nuthouse seems to me well named, the government seems to have acted properly,
Why is it proper to seize his assets and yet not arrest him or charge him? All that does is hurt his customers.
If von Nothaus was running a criminal enterprise, customers of same could be expected to lose their money, yes. Buyers of illegal drugs or stolen property would also not be reimbursed after a law enforcement raid.
Buying the coins/medallions can hardly be compared to buying drugs. There's nothing illegal about owning the coins so long as you don't use them in an illegal way. It's ridiculous that the customers should be treated like criminals too.
Dave
47 - RJ
Comments policy:
"Personal attacks are not allowed."
Comments editor:
"It [the comment editor's own comment] was making fun of the corpulent one"
"Making fun of" = "personal attack"
"I fail to see how you get from there to insulting me."
-Christopher Rose
"A hypocrite despises those whom he deceives, but has no respect for himself. He would make a dupe of himself too, if he could."
- William Hazlitt
48 - STM
CR: "Snarky is a relatively new word".
It's been used in this country since I can remember. I can recall teachers at school (and that is a long time ago) telling kids not to get snarky.
It ain't that new. Just took a while to catch on in the Old Dart (although I've heard snarky used there in the past), which is a tad bizarre considering it seems to have its origins way back in the late 1800s with Lewis Carroll and his poem, The Hunting Of The Snark.
49 - STM
(Sir) Clive Woodward, who went on to play a few games for England and the British Lions (and the Manly Marlins club, whilst in Australia) and lifted the Rugby World Cup from Australia in the field-goal final of 2003 at Telstra Stadium, tried out for the Welsh Schoolboys side when he was at a Royal Navy boarding school in Wales (as the son of an RAF officer, he was entitled to board there).
As he was resident in Wales, and going to school there, that should have been the only criteria for entry to the side, and at the trials Woodward, who could play a bit as a young fella, rang rings around most of the other kids and scored a few meat pies.
Later, the very interested Welsh coaches came over to talk to him and asked him: "Where do come from?"
Woodward replied that he was a boarder at a local school (in Wales), and playing in the local rugby competition.
The coaches said: "No, where do come from? Are you English? Were you born in England?"
When he replied in the affirmative, they brushed him and decided not to pick him.
That's the trouble with the Welsh. I'll give a nod to their passion for all things Welsh, but sometimes they just don't use their brains.
Imagine if Wales had let Woodward play. They might have been the holders of the RWC in 2003.
No bloody foresight, man ...
And it would have spared us all the pain of England winning the fu.king thing and every Pom God ever breathed life into not shutting up about it for four, long, tedious bloody years.
50 - Dr Dreadful
More proof that rugger mashes your brains.
The Football Association of Wales is far smarter. They appreciate that because football/soccer is not the national game in Wales, and moreover is played in far more countries than rugby is, they might as well take advantage of the FIFA rule that says they can select any bugger who can show they had a Welsh grandparent.
The two Irish associations and even (on occasion) the Scots have also taken advantage of this rule, but arguably the most noteworthy instance of its use was the case of Vinnie Jones, who's about as Welsh as Genghis Khan but qualified for the national team on the basis of a granddad born in Fflint (I think it was).
To his credit, Vinnie took up the mantle of Welsh hopes with his customary enthusiasm. He learned the words to "Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau" and belted them out with impressive gusto before every game - royally showing up his teammates, a lot of whom had probably never realized there even was a Welsh national anthem before being selected.
Quite a character. The game is poorer - though less bruised! - for his retirement from it.
51 - STM
Fair dinkum, Vinnie Jones?
He's a hardman from Sarf London, innie?
What was the connection? And please, don't say the surname ...
52 - STM
OK, just spotted the bit about his granddad.
The Irish and Scots rugby teams operate on the same level. You qualify if your grandmother's cat ate a potato or a bowl of oatmeal occasionally.
53 - Christopher Rose
Re #44: Dave, you're obese and proud of it. Well done! Your commitment to physical well being is as profound as your personal commitment to objectivity and facts.
I respect your opinion as to when I should shut up somewhat less than I do your political understanding.
Re #45: gonzo, when you're right, you're right. Spot on!
Re #47: RJ, your problem with people saying things you don't like is well known by this commenter. Unfortunately, your modest ego doesn't seem to have grasped the basic principle that just because you think it doesn't make it so. That's a quality you share with Mr Nalle so it comes as no surprise to see you chiming in with him. Grow some skin.
However much you want it to be so, making fun of someone is not a personal attack.
Re #48: Stan, Australia has many fine words not used in the motherland. A few are leaking in to the country, particularly thanks to fine television shows like Neighbours (may they all rot in hell!) and more recently thanks to the slightly comic if belaboured escapades of Kath'n'Kim. My favourite austral neologism is undoubtedly daggy, which to my ears sounds exactly like its meaning.
I re-read some of The Hunting of the Snark to see if there was an immediately apparent way that the meaning of snarky might have evolved from the character of the snark but didn't find anything, so here's a verse from the rhyme for us all to enjoy:
54 - STM
Lol. Motherland?? (*grabs throat in mock gagging, whilst making choking sound*) I haven't heard that one since my grandfather died.
Actually, Kath and Kim is a great show. I heard you liked it over there too, but that some of your mob don't realise the two girls are in on the joke as well.
They are funny as all get out though. There really are people like Kath and Kim in Oz, and they aren't in on the joke. My favourite characters are the two snotty sheilas who own the up-market, Accoutrements-style homewares shop.
There are plenty of people like that, too.
55 - STM
On that note also, I have noted that Americans - not just on here but in general - are starting to use terms like "mate" and "bloke" a bit.
Obviously that's used at both ends of the globe, and we can't lay claim to it exclusively although these terms get more currency here on a regular basis. Still, it all just goes to show that the language spreads in all directions, not just one way, which is good as English is nothing if not colourful in all its guises.
56 - STM
PS Dave, sorry for fu.king up your thread :)
57 - STM
As to your question of whether the US government has embarked on a legit course of action in regards to this - of course it bloody has.
You can't have two currencies floating around.
If anything's guarnteed to do more damge, that'll be it.
Madness, even believing in such a thing. Fine for collectors, but not to be used as coin of The Realm (as it were).
58 - STM
Also, I don't understand what the big panic is in the US over a minor correction in a currency.
The US dollar is still strong, still buys you everything it did a year ago unless you like luxury Euro cars and Chanel perfumes, or English groceries and smallgoods.
What's the problem? It only makes a difference when you go on holidays. Now you can experience what we've been experiencing for the past 20 years when we travel to America :)
The value of the greenback was artificially inflated on the back of Wall St greed. Now it's come back to just about where it should be.
59 - STM
Could this be the fate of Mr Nuthouse?
"So the Snark found the verdict, although, as it owned,
It was spent with the toils of the day:
When it said the word "GUILTY!" the Jury all groaned,
And some of them fainted away.
Then the Snark pronounced sentence, the Judge being quite
Too nervous to utter a word:
When it rose to its feet, there was silence like night,
And the fall of a pin might be heard.
"Transportation for life" was the sentence it gave,
"And *then* to be fined forty pound."
The Jury all cheered, though the Judge said he feared
That the phrase was not legally sound.
60 - Clavos
"Also, I don't understand what the big panic is in the US over a minor correction in a currency."
There isn't any panic, Stan, it's (the "panic") entirely an artificial construct of the MSM.
The average bloke in the street isn't concerned at all. In fact, most are probably not even aware of it.
61 - Christopher Rose
Sorry, Stan, Kath'n'Kim is only mildly entertaining. You can see the jokes coming from about a week in advance - mind you, you upsidedowners are known for your literal approach!
I wasn't aware of any Brits not being aware that the girls were in on the joke. I guess it's possible but it's far more likely to be yet another Aussie myth as they struggle to get over that massive inferiority complex! ;-)
Mate and bloke are completely English everyday words. I can't imagine where you get the idea they are more common in Australia.
I'm sure Clavos is entirely correct that the average bloke in the street is unaware of any financial crisis. Apparently there was a real financial crisis in the UK in the early 80s but it didn't seem to affect anyone I knew at all. Life still goes on, despite what media commenters and industry consultants believe.
62 - Dave Nalle
PS Dave, sorry for fu.king up your thread :)
Hey, at least you're not making fun of my weight. That would be below the belt, though most of the weight is in fact directly above my belt.
Dave
63 - gonzo marx
#60 sez - "The average bloke in the street isn't concerned at all. In fact, most are probably not even aware of it."
perhpas not to yacht types in Miami...
up here in Maine and New England, between our dollar being on parity with the Canuck Loonie, and fuel oil costing MORE than premium gasoline, there's quite a bit of panic as the weather gets colder, and the price of groceries rise (due to much of the fresh fruits/veg coming from outside the country)
add it all up, and there's a lot less in pocket than last year, and the dismal start to the holiday shopping season is going to increase the economic ripple effect beyond the worst case estimates seen so far, imo
i said it months ago, right here on BC...recession next year (if we don't hit it before then)
with all of that, and the foreclosure situation just beginning to surface...it will get worse ...much worse, before it gets any better
Excelsior?
64 - Clavos
Actually, the recession's already here. If you take the time to read anand's posts on another thread, you'll see that the US economy is already on the skids and will crash totally within the next year.
Don't take my word for it; ask anand and all his experts.
PS With 27,000 unsold condo units looking for a home in Miami alone, housing is getting more affordable by the minute down here.
Pretty soon even the hotel waiters will be able to afford oceanfront...
65 - gonzo marx
not if no one can afford to go out to eat...
we will see..i'm not that bearish on it entirely, there are possibilities for many bright spots in the shitstorm to come
but this is a very crucial nexus, imo..and how the U.S. handles this one, as well as looks towards the future, will determine quite a lot about the next 100 years, imo
but i'm not going to get too speculative, some of the Probabilities are far too depressing to contemplate...others are full of Wonders
critical Choices to be made, and crucial Changes on the horizon...gotta have Trust in the Fact that we silly monkeys have managed to work it out so far...
Excelsior?
66 - Clavos
"gotta have Trust in the Fact that we silly monkeys have managed to work it out so far..."
Quoted for Truth.
67 - Silver Surfer
Rose: "another Aussie myth as they struggle to get over that massive inferiority complex!"
Lol. Why would we be the ones with the inferiority complex. Have you been here?
Like I say, the big mistake Britain made 200 years ago was to send all the party people to the best place, while all the miserable, moaning, masses of the great unwashed got to stay over there and moan about the rain and the cold.
Some punishment for the transported.
68 - Christopher Rose
Stan, why on earth would anyone in their right mind want to go to an island continent at the end of the world that is largely uninhabitable and full of some of the most toxic critters on the planet?
The big mistake Britain made was losing Hawaii, which is one of the most beautiful places on the planet.
69 - Dave Nalle
Don't worry, with Hillary in office, I'm sure this recession can be stretched out for at least a decade and be used as a pretext for taking away our money and our liberties to an unprecedented degree.
Dave
70 - gonzo marx
so..rather than deal with the rott causes, or figure out how to solve the problem..at lkeast in part created by rapacious greed and deregulation of certain industries...as well as the cowboy diplomacy that destabilized the mid-east and brought oil from
$30 a barrel to approaching $100 (with gas going from 1-3$ during the same time period...you know, the term of this Administration)
rather than deal with all that realistically, with an eye towards solving the Problems...you decide that the best thing to do is to pre-emptively bitch and whine about someone who hasn't even won a primary yet...
and for this Vox quote - "...our liberties to an unprecedented degree."
gonna hafta go a LONG fucking way to catch up to what this Administration, and it's running dog lackey GOP controlled Congress/Senate have done
but don't let silly stuff like Facts get in the way of your partisan bullshit
much as i don't want another Clinton in the White House, it would almost be worth it just to observe just how apoplectic some folks would get
but i'd much rather have someone who will actually work towards solving Problems inaugurated in January '09
Excelsior?
71 - Les Slater
"...i'd much rather have someone who will actually work towards solving Problems inaugurated in January '09"
Don't we all. But, realistically, what do you expect to change? I so no hint in the debate the other night.
72 - Zedd
Christopher Rosie sed: "But can't spell affidavits!"
Would this be a question?
hee hee
73 - REMF
"Don't worry, with Hillary in office, I'm sure this recession can be stretched out for at least a decade and be used as a pretext for taking away our money and our liberties to an unprecedented degree."
- Dave Nalle
It'll take more than a decade to make up the $441 billion* Bush has spent on the Iraq invasion/occupation.
And we'll never get back those 3200* lives lost.
*and counting
74 - Dave Nalle
And the excuses start to be filed almost two years in advance of Hillary even taking office. Blame it on the Republicans and then use it as a pretext to consolidate power.
Dave
75 - Al Barger
I'm pretty skeptical of Ron Paul's idea of abolishing the Federal Reserve. I appreciate the complaints about fiat money and all, but how's that supposed to work, exactly?
On the other hand, this raid looks pretty clearly like blunt fascism, not any reasonable application of the rule of law or real consumer protection.
So I don't know about abolishing the Federal Reserve, but Ron Paul could definitely make a couple of points with me if he would go out of his way in the next debate to specifically point out and denounce this bogus raid.