The Drudge Report is splashing the news that the Sunday Times of London plans on reporting that Israel is planning a nuclear strike against Iran to head off Iran's nuclear ambitions. According to Drudge:
Israel has drawn up secret plans to destroy Iran's uranium enrichment facilities with tactical nuclear weapons, the SUNDAY TIMES of London is planning to report, British media sources tell DRUDGE...
At first glance, the entire story smells of a fabrication. The obvious reason being that if Israel had secret plans to nuke Iran, they likely wouldn't have been leaked. If they did get leaked, the police better start dredging the Sea of Galilee for the bodies of those involved.
More importantly this leak gives huge benefits to Iran. Israel is not stupid. A tactical nuclear weapon would likely do very little for a protected underground bunker. It is possible that either Drudge or the Sunday Times doesn't know precisely what a tactical nuclear weapon is. However, the fact remains in order to really do damage to the facility an ICBM (a strategic nuclear weapons) would need to be used. The momentum of a missile coming down from low earth orbit would be necessary to burrow deep enough to do the damage desired. There is indication that even then, the strike might not be successful.
One simulation indicated it would require 400 or so missiles to do the job. At best, entrances and exits from the underground facility could be collapsed and that would certainly delay the program. The radiation from the strikes would need to dissipate and the tunnels would have to be rebuilt. It is possible such a strike could be carried out at times when Iran's nuclear weapons were being brought above ground, but that would be extremely difficult to pull off.
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Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Natalie Bennett
As a rule of thumb, treat any Sunday Times splash with extreme scepticism...
2 - Rightist Liberal
My god... Those crazy Israeli's will finally plunge the world into worldwar three... The UN has been focusing all of its attention on the wrong guys... Its just like Iraq... Powel: "We are positivie they hav WMD".... 2 years later "Iraqi's fight the US w/ sticks and stones"... The US should just bomb the hell out of Israel, dismantel its war machine and nuclear weapons, allow for only internal security forces, make peace with the Arabs and we can all then live in a safer world...
3 - Jonathan
Why if these plans smell dodgy did the Isreali Defence for comment on them and the precision in which they could accomplish them.
Would think the old line, we know of no such plans might have been a little more appropriate.
4 - Visitor
Propaganda, designed to force the US's hand into destroying another of israels enemies (like Iraq).
The "war against terrorism" is really the war for a greater israel - by removing all obstacles to its expansion and domination of the region.
Onward Christian soldiers!!
5 - John Bambenek
At what point did debates on Middle East politics have to presume one side was innocent...
There's plenty of guilt to go around.
6 - Rightist Liberal
At the point when all of our focus and attention is only on Iran. All the blame is laid at Iran's foot. At the point when we began to blindly support the Israeli point of view no matter what! We are not interested in figuring out everyone's guilt (including our own) but just pushing an agenda... The Israeli Agenda at that!
7 - Visitor
US foreign policy can be predicted by asking yourself the following question: Is it good for israel? A partial explanation for this can be found here.
8 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I see where more Jew-hating trash comes leaking out of the English speaking world. Well, John, you do manage to bring them out, and their stink wafts all the way to Samaria, even high up in the mountains here. I suppose someone from the Tribe ought to speak up about now.
Americans have no reason to interfere in the affairs of the Persian Gulf - no reason except to protect the interests of the petroleum companies and their client countries in the Middle East. And boy, are those oilmen playing you for suckers! Not only are they charging you (and the rest of the world) obscene prices for a product that cost $3/bbl to pull from the ground, they have you bending over and accepting the stick up your bums and - and this is the perfect part - blaming the Jews instead of them!
It would be far far better if you took all your soldiers and got the hell out, and let US take care of these problems ourselves WITHOUT your moralizing and your misguided bullshit and your Jew hatred.
Let's add to the list just to make sure you comprehend me VERY clearly. Take your aid and and your money and keep it; we do not need your money. Get your soldiers out of our country; someday they are liable to come home in body bags because WE will kill them. Get your interfering diplomats out of here. We may kill them too, one day. And most of all, get your fucking missionaries out of here!! The day may come when we kick all Christians out of here because of the damned missionaries, and we close and confiscate your churches and refuse you entry to OUR country.
John is right about enough guilt to go around, by the way. The leaders of this country should stretch by the neck for treason for handing over OUR land to the enemy and for selling out to the EU, the Vatican and the USA. The elder members of the Labor party in this country should be executed for their part in allowing the Nazis to murder off millions of Jews. The entire Husseini clan should be killed for its role in the same enterprise.
I'll let you carry on now, John. The rest of the Jew haters who read Bloc Critics Magazine, seeing my name, should come out to curse and spit.
Cheers!
9 - Elvira Black
Ruvy:
I'm intrigued by your comment about missionaries--I wasn't aware that they were such a big force there, though that does make a certain amount of sense. Care to elaborate a bit?
10 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Elvira,
Christian missionaries are all over here like a bad smell. Some of them are duplicitous bastards, pretending to bring food and clothing, when instead their intent is to steal the souls of the recipients.
We used to have neighbors, Kurdish Jews whose father was felled by cardiac arrest and who now lies in a hospital in J-lem. They'd come over and visit, venting thir sorrow over the man w3ho had been a gentleman and a good provider, and who now lay crippled in hospital. The younger daughter's boyfriend, supposedly religious, was explaining to us the important role of "Paulus" in Judaism. I took the pamphlet he was reading from and lo and behold, it was some piece of trash from Christian missionaries!
You've got to understand that the Israeli government, which is in the hands of secular elites who hate Judaism, is ever seeking to reduce the Jewish influence in this country, so it has no trouble at all with Christian missionaries coming to de-Judaize the country.
11 - Michael J. West
Ruvy,
If you'll indulge me in this question, I'm curious as to exactly what the shade of your opinion is:
Is the very concept of secularism, by definition, the internal problem in Israel? Or is it the particular brand of secularism currently in favor there, that riles you?
12 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I think I understand you, and will try to answer, Mike. Secularism in Israel, in the sense that it denies Judaism and it dislikes it, is the problem. Whatever you folks do in America or elsewhere is your own business.
To expand further, the concept of Zionism as originally put forth, was to rescue Jews from persecution (that's fine) and to establish a country "just like all the other countries." That is the problem. If we are to act just like other countries, we would have to sacrifice our Judaism. Hence it rescues the Jew, but seeks to get rid of what he believes in.
Zionism is just about over, and the state it has fathered (the State of Israel) is eating itself apart.
The gap between religious Jews from the Hiloním, (secular Jews) is so deep and bitter that it is necessary to have special seminars and activities to try to bridge the gap. One of my sons will be participating in one such seminar in a few days.
13 - skeptic
Why does this blog smell dodgy? The larger problem is the existence of nuclear technology and the possible existence of nuclear weapons in the region regardless of who has them. What this rightwing bogger does not even think to question is why is it ok for Israel to have nuclear technology? (Asking this question does not make me a sympathizer of Iran, nor an anti-Semite, it makes me a concerned world citizen who is worried about the unquestioned spread of nuclear weapons in general).
14 - Michael J. West
I wasn't asking whether you condemned secularism worldwide, just wondered how you felt about it in Israel. Trying to understand Israel better, I guess.
What I had gathered, and what you basically confirmed, is that the religious-vs.-secular conflict is at the core of the country's identity, FAR more than it is in the U.S. (In fact, if my research is right, that deadlock essentially derailed the creation of a written constitution at the beginning of the state's history.)
So you describe the conflict as being part of the very founding of modern Israel. You can't have a both be a Jewish nation, and be a country like all the others. But does the solution HAVE to be one extreme or another? I.e., a country with no room for Biblical principles, or a country with no room for anything BUT Biblical principles? Aren't both those standards dangerous?
15 - Michael J. West
(BTW: I am going somewhere with this; just taking my time about getting there.)
16 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Mike,
Here is the problem. It doesn't have to do with laws or with Biblical principles, it has to do with belief and trust, either in oneself, or in G-d. If you honestly believe in what you are doing, for its own intrinsic value, you will do it, in spite of what outsiders think. But if your belief is based on the validation of outsiders, then you are always chasing that validation.
Modern Zionism sought a country just like all the other countries. So, it has always been seeking validation from outsiders in one way or another. If the outsiders do not give that validation, and gradually that validation has been withdrawn, then after a period of time, the ideal is viewed as a failure by those who pursued it originally.
And that is exactly what has happened in this country. The ruling elites, convinced that that Israel is only legitimate if outsiders give it validation, are doing everything they can to get that validation and failing. The more they compromise on their ideals the more outsiders withdraw the validation.
By basing my beliefs and solutions on our own ideals, without reference to what outsiders believe or think, we can deal with the real crises of this country and the crises of the entire people of Israel, and not the artificial ones the secular elites either put up top or create themselves.
And the entire people of Israel comprises more than just Jews...
17 - Win
First the article says nuclear bunker-busters would be used. These are considered to be the the most effective against the Iran nuclear enrichment according to globalsecurity.org
The majority of the weapons used, again according to the Sunday Times article would not be nuclear. Situations like this is why the nuclear bunker busters were developed in the first place. Why is it suprising that they would be used for this purpose? You know, we do make these weapons to sell and use them. It isn't a shock that Israel would use them, and we knew that when we sold them to Israel.
18 - Jerry
Skeptic,
You are disconnected somewhere in your reasoning. It is senseless to dwell on the larger problem, that is the existence of nuclear technology in Israel or elsewhere. It's here, and it ain't goin' away anytime soon.
Bambenek isn't saying that it's "OK" for Israel to have nukes and not Iran, but the fact remains that Israel has had them for may years and not yet used one.
Question is, how long will it take for Iran?
19 - Cyrus the Great
We know Israel wants to attack us. This is nothing new to us. The reason, they haven't done it yet, is because they are afraid of harsh respond by Iranian arm forces. Janes intelligence web sit publish an article last year about S3 long range missile lunchers in Iranian provinces of Hamadan and Kermanshah. At least 50 of them. They change their position regularly, so can not be located easily by sattelites. They see tip of the iceberg. Israel's government is not following any rules. But, they understand the language of force. This is the way we talk to them.. The world see it in Lebanon. I hope they don't try us again. We don't rely on security concil even one penny. They never wanted to see us when Iraqis used chemical weapon in 80s and they will close their eyes again if Israel uses nucs. The same when IAF and artillery was flattening Lebonon.
Bambenek you wrote:
"This plan, being leaked now in the way it was only gives more cover to Iran. The international community and human rights groups will likely jump all over Israel and demand investigations and action"
Are u jokin? U could not be seriious.
20 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
So Mr. West,
I await your further comments.
21 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
It seems to me that we've been over this ground before.
In the November 2006 issue of Commentary Magazine, there were two articles on the Iranian missile threat under the rubric "getting serious about Iran". One was by Amir Taheri, talking about how to accomplish regime change in the country. The second was by Arthur Herman, describing a military option in attacking and crippling the Iranian military.
Arthur Herman's analysis calls upon the United States to attack Iranian facilities, not Israel, so from my point of view, such a move would be an error. The more the United States involves itself militarily in the Middle East, the more quickly it will drag itself down the toilet. The country is damned near broke. In addition, it does us in Israel no favors. Every American failure is blamed on the "Zionist Lobby" that supposedly manipulates policy in America. This then translates into Jew hatred, and endangers the Jews who stupidly persist in staying on a ship (America) that is about to sink. We see this already in some of the comments here on Blog Critics Magazine, for example, on this article alone. See comments #2, #4, #6 & #7 for examples. The same mentality can be found at other articles as well.
So if the Iranian nuclear capability is to be taken out, better that we Israelis do it ourselves. We are the ones directly threatened by a nuclear capability that can stretch all the way to the Mediterranean and, more importantly, by a regime that makes no secret of its intent to wipe us from the map. If we do the dirty deed, the Americans can condemn it, the Europeans can condemn it, the Arabs can condemn it (and riot in the streets like they usually do), the Russian can threaten "unspecified consequences," etc., etc. The Iranians, who are not weak-minded or afraid, will do what they can to retaliate, and they probably can do quite a lot.
Given the ability of the Iranians to retaliate, and their stated determination to erase this country from the map, in my opinion, it is simplest not to pussy-foot around the issue with tactical nukes aimed at limited targets, but rather to to destroy Tehran altogether, and thus destroy the ability of the Iranians to organize second and third responses to the Israeli attack, which must of necessity be limited in scope.
In saying this, I am not being bloodthirsty, though it certainly seems that killing millions of innocent Iranians is a bloodthirsty act. I am being practical. At this point, the Iranians, whom we would much more prefer as friends, have chosen enmity as their approach to the Jewish entity here. What their reasons are do not matter. They have chosen the route of extermination.
Therefore, were I making policy here, it would be public doctrine that either Iran backs down from its policy of extermination of the Jewish people in the Middle East - or we will destroy Tehran in its entirety. The full horror of nuclear war would be visited upon the Iranian people in the form of the very extermination they would carry out upon us. Their minds must be concentrated upon the fact that we have this capability and are willing to use it. That is our only deterrence against the kind of hatred being spewed from the filthy mouth of the pig who speaks for the Iranian regime, Ahmadinejad.
Unfortunately, I am not making policy here. So eunuchs fly trial balloons of what they might do to stop a nuclear threat from Iran.
The cowardly sellouts who rule this country bring us closer and closer to the brink of destruction with their cowardice and constant attempt to get approval from a world that will not give them approval. So with each passing day, what we in this country must do to guarantee our survival gets more and more radical and dangerous.
22 - troll
imo your proposal flies in the face of Jewish Law...you guys badly need a Sanhedrin to sort this out - at least then Israel would be a Jewish State and could engage in Obligatory War 'legitimately'...until then it's a secular State for whom (some would argue) aggressive war is forbidden
a fraud I say
23 - troll
and concerning #16 - doesn't Law governing treaties require that the perception of 'Others' be treated as a major concern - ?
I await your blistering response
24 - Jerry
Ruvy,
You have stated in a nutshell (#21) the reality of the situation. There is hope of avoiding a nuclear exchange and that is to be found in the people of Iran.
A recent ABC report reveals Ahamdinejad is losing support in many sectors, and some students have even burned his photo publicly.
If a sufficient number of Iranians understand and rally against the path of suicide it may stave off nuclear conflict.
Is this possible?
25 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Troll,
I repeat a bitter truth here. "The cowardly sellouts who rule this country bring us closer and closer to the brink of destruction with their cowardice and constant attempt to get approval from a world that will not give them approval. So with each passing day, what we in this country must do to guarantee our survival gets more and more radical and dangerous."
All of this could have been avoided if the leaders of this country had refused to go down the suicidal path of Oslo in an attempt to get the approval of people like you. It could have been avoided if the leadership in 1991, instead of running like beggars pleading for a favor, had told the United States to take their money and their interference both and go to hell.
It was necessary to annex Gaza, Judea and Samaria, to expel hostile Arabs, and to allow those with Jordanian citizenship to participate fully in the affairs of the Kingdom of Jordan. It was necessary to execute all Arab terrorists as a deterrence to further Arab terror, and to cut off the balls of the mukhtars who insisted on allowing terror to come from their villages. This policy would have meant condemnation in 1990, but a strong and healthy Israel today.
Nobody respects a beggar or a pleader. They may hate someone who is vicious, but they respect him and do not try to provoke him. Until the coming of the messiah, that is the best this nation can expect from a hostile world - hatred, combined with a healthy respect for its willingness to kill on the spot to stay alive.