Way back in 1847 we fought a war with Mexico, and General Winfield "Old Fuss and Feathers" Scott and the redoubtable General Zachary Taylor won handily. We conquered the country, and their government went into exile. A very sharp guy named Nicholas Trist negotiated with their exiled government for more than a year, offering them money and trade deals and debt forgiveness if they'd just come back and resume control of their huge, wretched country full of peasants. All we wanted was to keep the nice northern parts like California and Texas, where a bunch of Anglos had settled along with Mexico's politically persecuted intellectuals who had been exiled to the borderlands. Eventually a treaty was worked out and everyone was happy...
Well, everyone except for the people in Mexico, and apparently Mexicans have a long, long memory. From that time forward a combination myth, philosophy, and political movement too vague to hang your hat on directly, but very real nonetheless, has existed in Mexico called "La Reconquista". The name is borrowed from the Christian reconquest of Spain from the Moors, and it is the idea that someday Mexico would seize its lost northern territories back from the United States.
To Pancho Villa, that meant an excuse for raping and pillaging in border towns while pretending to be a patriot, but more recently and more practically in the minds of activists, it has meant the reconquest of those territories not through warfare but through gradual infiltration and cultural domination.
The operating principle is actually remarkably similar to the one used to take those territories from Mexico in the first place. Anglo-Americans moved into Mexican-ruled Texas and California — often illegally — and then when there were enough of them settled in, they began complaining about the inefficient, corrupt, and abusive Mexican government and calling on the United States to come save them, which the US government eagerly did. In the same way, you now have Mexicans flooding over the border to settle in the southwestern states, and once their numbers are large enough, their activist spokesmen can feel justified in demanding rights and power from the US government, hoping to win control of those states by the pure influence of their numbers.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Joquin
Yo tango una palanka es muy grande! Por favor chilupa me chili.
Gracias
2 - Dave Nalle
My spanish is a bit rusty. Was that something about eating a chalupa in a big lawn chair?
Dave
3 - alethinos59
Dave... We usually don't agree but I am glad you can at least see this bill is insane. And hypocritical. I wonder if the bastards who sponsor it will go out to pick their lettuce when they go to the store and find out that a head has gone from $1.79 to $7.00? Or will they field the calls from the banks when they see upwards of $10 billion drained from accounts?
alethinos59
4 - Dave Nalle
The interesting thing about this issue is that it truly splits the GOP. There's a very large faction in the party which wants to go very easy on illegal immigration for purely economic reasons, and then there are these folks like Sensenbrenner - who is, btw, from a state with virtually no illegals - who want to launch fortress America ASAP.
We wouldn't have so many illegals here if we didn't have jobs for them and a need for their labors. That's just a basic fact. Common sense dictates that when you have a law which is directly contrary to the obvious trends in society then rather than punishing people for doing what economics and human nature dictate, you change the law to match reality. Law should be a codification of the standards of society it shouldn't impose artificial standards and restrictions on people in contradiction of what's natural.
Dave
5 - RJ Elliott
La Raza is essentially a Hispanic-supremacy group. Basically the KKK with tortilla chips and much better press.
And Aztlan is overtly anti-Semitic.
RJ's solution: Build a wall from the Pacific to the Gulf Of Mexico. Ten feet high, two feet thick, with barbed wire on top. After it is completed, anyone currently in the US can become a citizen, as long as they learn English and aren't a felon.
Sound reasonable?
6 - RJ Elliott
"I wonder if the bastards who sponsor it will go out to pick their lettuce when they go to the store and find out that a head has gone from $1.79 to $7.00?"
Uh, bullshit.
Labor costs make up a small percentage of the retail cost of produce.
If illegal Mexicans are willing to pick lettuce for 3 dollars per hour, I'm certain that, in their absence, actual Americans would be willing to do the job for 9 dollars an hour.
So, you triple the labor costs for a head of lettuce...but because labor costs are just a small percentage of overall costs, you don;t wind up with much of a price increase at the supermarket.
So...instead of 99 cents per head of lettuce, it's $1.49...not a very big deal, really...
7 - Dave Nalle
On the wall issue I was suprised to hear on Sunday from George Stephanopopadopalous of all people that the wall they built in San Diego actually had a pretty impressive impact in reducing illegal crossings - like 70-80% reduction.
Dave
8 - troll
*Labor costs make up a small percentage of the retail cost*
interesting perspective RJ
my experiences in production and retail and certainly in services lead me to think that this is not the case
is produce a special case - ?
troll
9 - Bliffle
How many consumers have their discretionary income greatly affected by the price of lettuce? You gotta be a bigtime redleaf addict to notice.
10 - tommyd
I hope the American people take this all in and wake from their long, media-induced slumber and see that both political parties have been selling them out for a very long time. And Bush certainly doesn't care about the Messssicans taking over out West and will do nothing to stop it. He can't anyway, Iraq and Israel are more important to him than America.
At this point, let the Messsicans take Aztlan back. Worse is better.
11 - RedTard
"Labor costs make up a small percentage of the retail cost of produce."
Labor costs ARE the costs of everything you buy. There's usually just a lot more labor involved than the one picking the produce. I don't think the lettuce would do anything more than double at the worst.
12 - Georgio
This is well written informative article Dave and your solutions or attemps are much more satifactory than most I have heard ..I would hate to see a wall built because it reminds me of the Berlin wall or the one in Israel..what a rotten way to live ...I would like to explore the idea of making Mexico a better place to live ..Dave your good at this maybe you can help me to understand why Mexico can't grow lettus and tomatoes etc etc..I think the answer to this real problem is in Mexico..just asking but why not make it part of the states after all Florida will be Cuban before long ..
13 - Dave Nalle
Georgio, Mexico DOES grow lettuce and tomatoes and such. They are one of the major sources for imported produce in the US markets. You probably don't realize it but a large chunk of the produce you buy comes from south and central America, especially when those things are out of season in our cooler climate. That's how we're able to have fresh veggies for so much of the year.
To wax biographical, when I lived in Russia I got a full taste of what life was like in the US 70 or 80 years ago. We only had access to fresh produce when it was in season, and then it was limited to what was grown within a couple of days drive of Moscow, and you had to buy it at a farmers market. Certain vegetables which were highly durable like potatoes, beets, carrots and turnips and other root vegetables were always available, but if you wanted greens or fruit you were limited to a couple of choices that were in season. That's the way things were all over the world before the advent of refrigiration and refrigirated trucks and higher speed trasportation. These technologies have massively expanded the radius from which produce can be brought to your local market. The limit was maybe a couple of hundred miles 50 years ago. Now it's at least 1000 miles for trucking and for higher priced items it's essentially unlimited. They'll fly specialty produce in from asia in some cases if it sells for a high enough price.
The point of all this is that we are already spreading prosperity to Mexico and the power of American consumerism is going to continue to bring them more and more new industry and demand for agricultural products if they are prepared to take advantage of the opportunities. Where they come up short is in basic facilities to take advantage of these opportunities. Their roads suck. Trucks can't travel reliably and quickly to a lot of parts of the country. That limits where factories and agribusinesses can operate. Their government is incompetent and corrupt and it makes it difficult to do business efficiently anywhere in the country. Frankly, the best thing for Mexico would be for the US to basically take the country over and manage it for them as a sort of fiefdom, but that's kind of hard to present to the public in either country.
Another issue with agriculture is the growing methods they use. Because they use water from questionable sources and pesticides which have been banned in the US a large portion of the produce from Mexico is excluded from import into the US. To fix these problems we need to help them implement more expensive but also more efficient agricultural techniques and improve their water infrastructure enormously. The country is basically a mess and a lot of potential is wasted as a result.
Dave
14 - Joanie
Since I know some of the activits involved in this weekend's marches in San Diego and L.A., I'm not surprised with the media coverage they received. What I am surprised about is the fact that the media was very careful not to show what other groups were marching along with them.
The ISO, ANSWER, and some of the more radical groups had a strong presence. Mainly because their membership overlap.
Considering my previous experiences with these individuals, I'm prepared for the "uprising". I mean, if I'm practically attacked for taking photos of the crowd at a relatively low-key "Free Pedro" rally, what do you think they're willing to do when authorities confront them as they become agitated during these larger gatherings? And, yes, there were marches that had crowd issues this weekend.
Also in my dealings with these groups, I've learned that their pre-event planning includes strategies to incite violence or to meet counter-protesters with physical confrontations.
Working in healthcare, in a city on the border, I had many patients who came to the US for treatment and assistance. Most of these families had worked hard to save up money and actually pay their hospital costs, often receiving discounts for cash payment at the end of their stay. And, many of these same people had been working legally in this country while they continued to reside in Mexico. These folks are not the ones out marching in our streets - they're too busy providing for their families.
I hate to see those who are interested in working with the system being placed in the same category as those who don't. Too many good people end up being punished for the acts of the radicals who can't seem to figure out that there are other ways (positive ways) to impact society.
15 - Dave Nalle
Joanie, interesting point about the protestors who were not shown by the media. I know from photos I've seen taken by observers that a great many extreme left non-hispanic organizations were at these rallies, but strangely they are not shown in any of the coverage in the MSM. Not one SWP banner, no radical anarchists, no banners against the Iraq war or suggesting the violent overthrow of Bush. Those folks were there in large numbers and helped organize the rallies, but in the media it's as if they didn't exist.
16 - Georgio
Dave ..I believe you are right about the infrastuture in Mexico and being 75 years old I remember when products could not be shipped long distance..I like your idea of a Fiefdom but I agree both sides would not go for it..But don't you think it would be cheaper and make more sense to help them more with these problems than go on spending all this money on health care and schools for them here .I find it hard to believe that President Fox is so inept.or is he corrupt also..
17 - Dave Nalle
I think President Fox is crazy like a Fox, actually. He's like the immigration pimp. He's playing the US perfectly to get money to help with his internal problems and improving infrastructure, plus doing everything he can to send people to the US who will then send money back to Mexico. His bread is buttered on both sides, as it were.
Dave
18 - RJ Elliott
"my experiences in production and retail and certainly in services lead me to think that this is not the case...is produce a special case - ?"
Yep. Because you aren't just paying for the labor of the guys who come in to pick the ripe fruits and veggies; you are paying for the acres of land, the infrastructure of pipes/hoses that provide the irrigation, the water that is used for that irrigation, the farm machinery, the fertilizer, etc.
19 - Richard Brodie
I wonder if the bastards who sponsor it will go out to pick their lettuce when they go to the store and find out that a head has gone from $1.79 to $7.00?
The problem right now is that Americans are not willing to look past their immediate noses, down into the long historical corridors of time. After the current 30 million illegals take advantage of this amnesty, and become part of the $9 an hour AMERICAN labor force, will we not have to welcome in the next group of 30 million illegals to pick the lettuce? How often will it be necessary to refresh this slave labor force in order to keep the price of groceries from going up like the price of gasoline does? Once every couple of decades?
I say we cut our losses now, sign the surrender documents, hand over the territories of "Aztlan", and redraw the boundaries of the United States to give 90% of our prime agricultural land to Mexico. At least what is left will bear some slight resemblance to what our Founding Fathers envisioned. Otherwise the entire country will be transformed beyond recognition, before this century is out, into what will resemble a cross between the Soviet Union and the Indian subcontinent, as a predominant Hispanic element will vote to slowly kill the golden goose of capitalism, in order to provide what they unfortunately will not realize is an exhaustable supply of welfare-state benefits to an eight-kid per family posterity.
20 - Dave Nalle
Bit paranoid aren't we, Richard?
The reality is that many of the illegals who come here ultimately plan to go back to Mexico and are only coming to earn a living. They would be perfect for a temporary work visa program. The smaller portion who want to live here permanently want to do it as American citizens, not as part of some new province of Mexico. Mexico and its poverty and corruption are what they want to get away from.
Don't buy into the pipe dream of the Aztlan nuts or La Reconquista ideologues. They're a tiny minority of idiotic activists, and when you take them seriously and let them feed your paranoia nothing good comes of it.
Dave
21 - Richard Brodie
The reality is that many of the illegals who come here ultimately plan to go back to Mexico and are only coming to earn a living.
Really. Then why is Los Angeles now 49% Hispanic? And why do population projections predict a Hispanic majority nationwide, and half a billion people worth of overcrowding in this country, before 2100?
You don't make any sense. If, as you say, "Mexico and its poverty and corruption are what they want to get away from," then why on earth would they "ultimately plan to go back" to that poverty and corruption?
I think I'd prefer to be a little overly paranoid, than to be underly paranoid to the degree you seem to be!
22 - Dave Nalle
Really. Then why is Los Angeles now 49% Hispanic? And why do population projections predict a Hispanic majority nationwide, and half a billion people worth of overcrowding in this country, before 2100?
Do the math, Richard. Reagan gave amnesty to millions of illegals a majority of whom were in the LA area. Since then millions more have come - again lots of them to that area. Your ridiculous estimate of 30 million illegals isn't even required to boost LA's population of hispanics that high. As for population projections, the last ones I saw showed us with a 25% hispanic population by 2050. That's not exactly a majority or the basis for one by 2100.
You don't make any sense. If, as you say, "Mexico and its poverty and corruption are what they want to get away from," then why on earth would they "ultimately plan to go back" to that poverty and corruption?
Because they go back with lots of money to join their families whose lot they improve in the process so that they rise above the poverty and become the beneficiaries rather than the victims of the corruption.
I think I'd prefer to be a little overly paranoid, than to be underly paranoid to the degree you seem to be!
Just being realistic here. Alarmism in the service of nothing but racist paranoia can only lead to bad national decision making.
Dave
23 - Bill O. Writes
Hey PIG!
Lose your job to an illegal Mexican, and see if you can afford a 79 cent head of lettuce. Let me guess you have a job. In ten years see how far your vote goes next to a Mexican.
24 - Nancy
We're still gonna get gouged for lettuce, because the oil/energy consortia still have a stranglehold on everything from production to post-market.
25 - PA Rodriguez
Bill, did you lose your job to an illegal Mexican immigrant? If so, what was your job? It seems strange to me that if you can't afford to buy a head of lettuce for 79 cents, how do you afford paying for Internet service so that you can blog online?
And Nancy, what do the "oil/energy consortia" have to do with picking lettuce? Or perhaps you were referring to the oil/vinegar consortium? We all know how evil they are...