Barack Obama — politics as usual.
Hearing the brouhaha over the July New Yorker cover, one would think that the New Yorker had never done a satirical cover before. The cover of the magazine set off a hailstorm of racism charges and in the downpour of outrage the contents of the well-written article have been ignored.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - MountainSage
Lee Richards....just a few points.
First.... I've thought Obama was a con artist since I first started hearing about him and started doing research. I just thought it was interesting that the New Yorker article had pretty much been ignored because of the cover.
So, NO one magazine article didn't form my opinion....I've been writing about Obama for months.
Secondly...IT'S AN OPINION PIECE. See, right at the top of the page it says OPINION. You do know what that means, right?
27 - Lee Richards
MountainSage:
Unsupported opinions are hot air.
28 - MountainSage
Lee Richards....that would make your opinion of my opinion hot air as well, eh?
Maybe you shouldn't read opinion pieces since you don't quite get the concept.
29 - Clavos
"...I've thought Obama was a con artist since I first started hearing about him and started doing research."
And in that he's different from every other pol, how?
30 - Conrad Dalton
It's not that Obama is smart. It's that his competition isn't.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
31 - Sam weaver
McCain is a former prisoner of war and that makes him a hero. However, just like Obama, sinse 2000, McCain's views have been all over the road. But I believe it is okay to rethink views. Only an immature person would ever stick with a thought even when they know they are wrong. It is fine to admit a mistake. It is not okay to try to justify in an attempt to save face. I do not know who Obama is, but he is running a better campaign than McCain. I do believe that the new guy running McCain's camp has him on point a lot better. All president's are con men. For a con man, Barack certainly organized one hell of an organization. The better question for this election is who is the better con man, McCain or Obama? Being a great salesperson is important to the job. Some of best con men in presidential history were FDR, Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and Bill Clinton. They all made a few flubs in office, but overall, they accomplished a lot and the country was relatively in good shape.
32 - bliffle
Merely being a POW does NOT make one a hero.
33 - NacMacFeegle
Thanks for confirming my opinion of not only who BO is, but who is he not. Looking forward to reading more from you, Mountain Sage.
Oh, and bliffle, merely being a media construct also does NOT make one a hero.
34 - Zedd
This article reflect in immaturity of sorts. Off courts he has to be strategic to win. Are we really that naive?
I think you misunderstand what is different about Obama. It is that he can THINK or express (and hopefully deliver) ideas in a pragmatic manner not that he is a strategic planner.
Your charge that he has a strategy to win is naive and perhaps ill considered. Being able to cease opportunity and make the best of any situation is good. Being able to maneuver is a very good thing for the leader of a nation. Being able to do so without sounding stupid is even better. Being able to do so AND change things for the better is a home run. That is what we are hoping for.
As for addressing the situation as it changes (Rev Wright), that is also a good thing. Lying to the public and claiming to NEVER change your mind is condescending in that it presumes that the public is stupid and it's simply silly. I want someone who addresses a situation as it changes and not worry about "flip flopping". I am assuming you value that in a politician. Was Wright hurting Obama's campaign? Yes. Did Obama walk away from him? Yes. Was that so bad? No, it was a rational decision. What's the prob?
My thinking is that we are used to being played by politicians. Having them tell us that they are not really strategic and that they are folksy and have no personal ambition, only driven by the love of America. My suggestion is that we mature past those notions and understand that anyone who wants to lead the world is ambitious. We sorta need to grow up don't you think?
35 - Lee Richards
#28:
MountainSage:
No, You don't get the concept. I supported my opinion with REASONS in #25, and asked for yours, which you have yet to provide.
36 - MountainSage
I gave some of the reasons and if it's not enough to suit you that's really not my problem.
If you and Zedd want to excuse Obama's behavior as merely his strategy to win then you are the problem with this country. Anything is acceptable as long as you win.
I find it sad that winning is everything and conviction, principles and honesty are nothing.
37 - Al Barger
Already by this point, anyone who thinks Obama is anything other than another lying, conniving politician who'll say or do anything and betray anyone in order to get that power - well, they're just fooling themselves, aren't they?
I've been wondering about this Rev Wright stuff though. I would not find it difficult to believe that the whole blowup between them was orchestrated, with Rev Wright willfully doing Obama's will. The whole thing where Wright publicly goes off the deep end and gives Obama a good, new reason to cut him loose and remove him as an issue was awfully damned convenient for Barack. It certainly worked out to his advantage.
It could be that this was just a dumb public blowup between them exactly as presented - or could it be that Rev Wright voluntarily set himself up as the goat, taking one for the team?
38 - Clavos
"If you and Zedd want to excuse Obama's behavior as merely his strategy to win then you are the problem with this country. Anything is acceptable as long as you win."
All american politicians (not just Obama) operate that way.
What you say about Obama is, for the most part, true.
But, he's not alone. He's not even the first; nor will he be the last.
It's the underlying culture of the country: winners are good; losers are bad.
Winning is what counts.
39 - Lee Richards
#36:
I find it sad that you want to write for publication but become defensive, dismissive, condescending, judgmental and petulant when honestly and politely questioned or differed with.
40 - MountainSage
You ignored the reasons I did give, Lee Richards, and declared they weren't enough for you.
If I point out to you my reasons I'm being defensive, if I point out that no matter how many reasons I gave you you aren't satisfied I'm being condescending, judgmental and petulant, and if I ignore you I'm being dismissive.
There's nothing I can say that would suit you as you are looking for a fight which I won't give you.
Thanks for playing. Have a nice day.
41 - Zedd
Mountain,
You didn't really give reasons. You made broad accusations. None of which would warrant a serious indictment.
The fact that he distanced himself from an old friend who was knowingly jeopardizing his chances of becoming President is not EVIL or cunning. It's reasonable if not rational (that word again).
Again, I think the point that you miss is that the change that he is talking about has to do with how we SOLVE issues. The best example is how he addressed the RACE issue. We have been dancing around this issue for CENTURIES. For the first time someone said, "yes this is an ill and yes no one has the answers. Being confused or wrong about this issues does not make one a bad person." How refreshing and yes RATIONAL that was. He didn't play politician revert to sentimentality and play good guys vs bad guys without EVER getting to the crux of the matter.
Hope that helps you.
42 - Polemicscat
Your title is THE question of this campaign. Your answer is good as far as it goes. Obama is certainly the consumate politician. But that skill, like intelligence, is found in tyrants.
I am amazed at the speed with which he became a contender for the office of President. No President in history came this far toward election with such a meager track record.
He became a Senator soon after 9/11 and served only a relatively short time before wrapping up the nomination for President. It's as though the mainstream media and the Democratic party are suffering from an acute case of Stockholm Syndrome.
43 - Sam weaver
Al Barger, lying and conniving? You just described FDR, Ike, Kennedy, Johnson, Reagan, and Bill Clinton. And these gentlemen did pretty well. Strategy and conniving are the same thing. But it is not sinister or bad. Lying? What has Obama said or done that has been proven to be a lie? Adjusting one's views is normal. Conservatives or liberals that never even consider re-examining their views, are dangerous and have closed minds.
44 - Clavos
I think we've pretty well managed to establish that, at bottom, Obama is no different from any of the politicians who have preceded him.
This, of course, means we've also punctured and deflated the myth surrounding him thus far in the race; that he is somehow a "new" and "improved" american politician, offering "Change We Can Believe In."
45 - Sam weaver
Clavos, Obama's strategies are some of the same types of actions that one has to do in an office place. In the long run, whether it's in the office or politics, one is judged by how well they lead. Every leader, and that includes the Pope or a factory foreman, maneuvering is part of the equation. Sorry, it is part of life. It is naive to think otherwise. Obama and McCain have to win in order to hold the office of president.
46 - Lee Richards
#40:
Nope, never wanted a fight. I wanted a discussion with reasoned and supported points of view and something to back up opinions, which are not all created equal.
At least Zedd and I now know that we're what's wrong with the country, having no convictions, principles or honesty(THAT'S the judgmental part of your comments).
And, just for the record, I've often commented elsewhere on BC that I don't want either Obama or McCain as president. Obama because I've been fooled before by the difference between appearance and reality in politicians, and McCain because he knew God when they were little boys growing up together.
You have a nice day, too.
47 - comradebillyboy
The truth hurts. The more I learn about Obama the less I like him. Six months ago, I was willing to support him if he won the nomination, but no more. I can not think of any politician in my lifetime who has shown less political courage or fewer real principles. He is a little bit more articulate version of George Bush, and just as annoying as Jimmy Carter.
48 - Clavos
Sam,
"Obama's strategies are some of the same types of actions that one has to do in an office place. In the long run, whether it's in the office or politics, one is judged by how well they lead. Every leader, and that includes the Pope or a factory foreman, maneuvering is part of the equation. Sorry, it is part of life. It is naive to think otherwise. Obama and McCain have to win in order to hold the office of president."
I agree.
My point is, Obama, despite his much touted "newness," etc., is in fact more of the same old, same old.
That's not a criticism; I never really expected anything different.
What it DOES mean is that, as usual in our races for POTUS, we have a choice of a pair of typical american politicians; which is to say, not much choice at all.
49 - Conrad Dalton
How is "change we can believe in" to be interpreted?
From the outset, Obama made his mark by being against the Iraq War and proposing a withdrawal of all US troops, as well as opening diplomatic relations with adversaries.
During the primaries these were his defining issues.
50 - zingzing
mountain sage: "zingzing....what surface qualities? He reads a teleprompter well?"
jesus christ... think a little.
"He's not new, he's not nor will he be a change or an improvement and if you think so you are the one who is naive."
you don't think he'd be an improvement over bush?
i really don't think he'd be as bullheaded, nor such a moron as to stand on some outmoded principle and watch the world drag itself toward nuclear war.
i'm gonna guess at something. you're an embittered hillary supporter, aren't you?
i've also got a question: do you think any of the possible (including hillary) presidential candidates' true nature is accurately reflected by a campaign slogan?
another: what candidate isn't running on a "change" platform?
51 - El Bicho
The author comes off like she thinks she's the child in "The Emperor's New Clothes," but instead comes off rather naive and poorly informed as she states the obvious, like she just discovered Santa Claus was really her parents as if no one else knew.
Thanks for revealing Barack is a politician, as if running for office wasn't the first clue, and "change" has long been a slogan when either challenging incumbents and/or Washington. Let's see, Bush used it in 2000, Clinton in 1992, Reagan in 1980. Feel free to do some research if you need anymore examples. It's a proven successful strategy. I assume he wants to win, so why wouldn't he use it?
Thanks for the laugh, though. The irony of calling out Obama supporters for not thinking for themselves then to see so many "new" commentors repeat phrases is adorable.
Hillary has moved on. You guys should as well.
52 - MountainSage
LOL....nice try. It was Obama's campaign and his supporters that declared him a change from politics as usual, a new kind of politics! Now, they are saying "of course he's a politician, didn't you know that?" Yes, I did. I knew it the first time I heard the hope and change crap.
You're entitled to your opinion but not your own "facts" and you don't get to re-write history.
Obama said he would bring a new kind of politics...and he's not. I knew he wouldn't but his supporters obviously didn't.
You guys are just unbelievable.
53 - zingzing
no one really expects obama to come in and change the way american politics work.
you're totally overstating your case.
many of his supporters (and i wouldn't even consider myself a true supporter) are disappointed that he has begun to really play the game. but that's the way it goes. he wouldn't be able to survive without doing so.
but remember that the campaign is a different thing than holding the office. he does offer a huge difference from bush, et al.
it's really obvious that you're a hillary supporter. that's fine. but it's also obvious that you're quite obsessed with obama, for some reason or another.
54 - El Bicho
You're entitled to your opinion but not your own "facts" and you don't get to re-write history.
Look who's talking. You claim to know what's in the minds of millions. You have no idea every supporter of his believed he was going to change things. There are likely plenty of people who agreed with his stand on issues, which aren't much different from Hillary's, but didn't want to deal with her baggage in the general. After eight years of Bush, she would have been the change candidate, but Obama trumped on the Iraq War vote. Would you have believed her claims of change?
What's unbelievable is Hillary supporters acting like spoiled brats because they didn't get their way.
55 - morninmist
Your's is a typical bully comment--bullies like to name call and try to belittle others.
"July 20, 2008 @ 21:46PM " El Bicho [URL]
You're entitled to your opinion but not your own "facts" and you don't get to re-write history.
Look who's talking. You claim to know what's in the minds of millions. You have no idea every supporter of his believed he was going to change things. There are likely plenty of people who agreed with his stand on issues, which aren't much different from Hillary's, but didn't want to deal with her baggage in the general. After eight years of Bush, she would have been the change candidate, but Obama trumped on the Iraq War vote. Would you have believed her claims of change?
What's unbelievable is Hillary supporters acting like spoiled brats because they didn't get their way."
56 - Texas Hill Country
Mountain Sage... Brilliant Article. Perfect and Spot On.
These people that attack you have no understanding of what they are talking about...
It doesn't take an "embittered Hillary supporter" to dislike Obama, to see thru his BS, and to know that he would be a naive disaster!
This is a friggin democracy and I am tired of the Obots trying to tell the "dissenters" to shut up. I will not shut up and I will contintue to scream that I want my party back!
Mountain Sage... you get a tip of the hat.
Obamatrons... you get a wag of the finger.
Texas Hill Country
57 - nv1962
Well-written: brief, to-the-point, crystal clear.
The stuff more people need to read more often.
58 - Clavos
Why is everybody so surprised to find out Obama's a politician?
Are you all so naive as to believe any politician is telling the truth about anything at any time?
If their lips are moving, they're lying.
If Obama is elected, he'll move right back to the left, where he came from.
Idealists don't get elected - look at Ron Paul.
59 - MountainSage
El Bicho...I only claim to know what I heard. I saw the comments all over the Internet about how Obama was going to change politics because he is different. I heard the news reports about the candidate of hope and change, ad nauseum. I heard the screams of thousands of YES WE CAN.
And of course Obama's positions aren't much different from Hillary Clinton's...he copied a lot of them. She'd put out a policy stand and a couple of weeks later he'd put out one that sounded just like hers. Or, when asked in a debate about a policy he obviously didn't have a grip on his answer was "I agree with Hillary."
Me not voting for Obama has nothing to do with Hillary Clinton. I've always known she's a politician and have no delusions about what she does and doesn't believe. And yet, Hillary Clinton isn't the one who claimed to be the candidate of a new kind of politics, now, is she?
Barack Obama said, "I serve as a blank screen on which people of vastly different political stripes project their own views." You know what that really means? His beliefs are so obscure, his policy statements so ambiguous and cryptic that the politically naive hear what they want to hear and attribute to Obama their own belief system. THAT is why he's dangerous...not only do WE not know what he believes, I don't think he does either. People with strong convictions can't and WON'T serve as someone else's blank screen.
If refusing to allow the DNC to bully me into voting for someone who I think is unqualified, irresolute and egotistical, makes me a spoiled brat, then yes, I'm guilty as charged. However, I'm not the one kicking and crying that everyone else HAS to vote for the candidate of my choice...that would be the Obama supporters. I am merely stating that I won't vote for him and pointing out the reasons why.
I think the best example you can find of a spoiled brat just might be the reflection you see in the mirror.
60 - Jamastiene
You nailed it. He is portrayed as this sort of savior who can do no wrong, yet he will go back and forth so much, we don't know what to believe about him. He talks about hope and change, yet he's just the same old politician as the rest of them. He goes back and forth so much, it's hard to tell where he really stands. I just don't trust the guy. I've never this kind of gut wrenching feeling of distrust for a Democrat before. That's saying a lot.
61 - Lee Richards
Hysterics and obsession--that'll convince a lot of people.
62 - CJ
Great OpEd!
Interesting. The supporters of "The One We Have Been Waiting For" excuse his arrogant hypocrisy with "he's just a politician?"
Ok, then it's about time they start talking about his resume, his lack of any real accomplishments, his judgment, his flip-flops and his pandering to the right.
63 - Baronius
Lee, you wanted examples of Obama dropping friends when they become political liabilities? There was Wright, Ayers, and Rezko. Considering how few old friends of Obama we've met, that's a pretty strong pattern.
64 - jessica alba
the obama will be a great presdient
65 - Dan Miller
the Obama?
As in the Messiah?
Great Zeus, what are we coming to?
Dan
66 - orenlicus
Chill Dan...lets just treat it like we do the Donald
67 - MountainSage
I need something more than an anonymous message on an Internet site saying the Obama will make a great president to convince me. I like evidence and I haven't seen any.
68 - zingzing
you ask for the impossible.
evidence of future events?
seriously...
some of obama's supporters have certainly spit out some hyperbole about the man. he's not the messiah or the destruction/rebirth of american politics. he hasn't ever claimed to be.
but you claim that he has claimed such nonsense. look at mccain, look at hillary. they've done the same things, sometimes worse. but you only point it out in obama.
why? "because he said he would be a 'change.'" yeah, yeah, yeah. he already has changed some of our foreign policy. what with the iraqi leader stating that his plan for iraq sounds good and the bush administration ACTUALLY TALKING to iran, well, it seems he's making waves before he even takes office.
what do you want from him? does he need to wash your feet and walk on the fuckin water?
69 - Andy Marsh
I'd say the writer of this piece only talked about Obama because the title of the article is "Just Who Is Barack Obama?". I mean if the piece was titled, "Just who are Obama, Clinton and McCain?" then the piece would obviously speak to the other candidates.
And to say that Obama never claimed any of this is really disengenuous to say the least, come on now, he painted "Change We Can Believe" on the side of a freaking plane! What change? It's politics as usual!
Has Obama ever pissed off his own party? I mean, before he won the nomination, he's obviously pissing off the extreme left now.
70 - zingzing
"And to say that Obama never claimed any of this is really disengenuous to say the least, come on now, he painted "Change We Can Believe" on the side of a freaking plane! What change? It's politics as usual!"
well, that's not what i said, is it? i said: "he's not the messiah or the destruction/rebirth of american politics. he hasn't claimed to be."
if you'd read the rest of my comment, you'd note that he already has forced a few changes. he's got the bush admin reevaluating their ideas on how to deal with iraq and iran.
and, if you read mountainsage's website, you'd note that she (?) has upwards of 1-2 articles PER DAY written about obama. at this point, she's not pro-anybody, only anti-obama. which is a fine thing to be. i don't really care. but i asked her (?) to look at mccain and clinton in a similar way and see if they don't look even worse. i didn't ask her to write a damn essay on it.
71 - Andy Marsh
Do you really think the present administration is doing what they're doing because Obama said so? I think you give him more credit than he deserves.
He (Obama) claims to be "Change we can believe in" ,but I don't.
I did read your entire comment, because I was initially gonna say that a guy washing another guys feet is just wrong, but then I realized that Mountainsage is in fact a woman, I guess it wouldn't be so wrong...but I get the impression that she wouldn't like it...at all.
So, A change and change are different?
I have read her website, I liked it so much I added it to my blogroll!
72 - bliffle
Mountain makes a good point: we need to know more about Obamas policies. Looks like we're slowly finding out. But it's a little late to make a good choice between O and Hillary. Let's hope we know enough soon enough to make a good choice between O and Mc.
73 - Jordan Richardson
The reason you don't know more about Obama's policies is because they aren't being reported as much. For every Obama mention on cable news networks, including CNN and FOX, there are about 5 McCain mentions. It isn't that difficult to figure out where Obama stands on the issues, but you have to look beyond conventional media sources. Corporate media sources have a vested interest in this election, so it's no surprise that they're covering who they're covering.
74 - zingzing
"Do you really think the present administration is doing what they're doing because Obama said so? I think you give him more credit than he deserves."
maybe, maybe not. but it is a pretty funny coincidence if not. i mean, "we will never talk to iran until they stop enriching uranium" turned into "we're talking to iran" overnight. funny, eh?
"He (Obama) claims to be "Change we can believe in", but I don't."
it's just a slogan. do you think coke adds life?
"I did read your entire comment, because I was initially gonna say that a guy washing another guys feet is just wrong..."
it's a jesus reference. but i bet you got that.
"So, A change and change are different?"
he's not promising a total rehaul of the system, just a different approach to it. which, for the most part, he has. at least when compared to bush, et al.
"I have read her website, I liked it so much I added it to my blogroll!"
i didn't ask if you liked it. i just told you that it's pretty damned obsessed with obama. and blatantly slanted against him. which i said is fine--at least the slanted part. the obsession... well, it's just kind of strange.
75 - Andy Marsh
Are you kidding? I read today that all the talking heads are following Obama around the middle east and europe and when McCain landed in NH last night there was one reporter there!
Just now on Drudge, six Obama stories and two McCain stories. NYT publishes an Obama piece on Iraq but refuses to publish a McCain piece on the same subject.
It really is amazing how folks see the news differently.