Senator and Republican presidential candidate John Sidney McCain III spends much of his stump time regaling his devotees with stories of how he is - at least since his release from North Vietnam's "Hanoi Hilton" prison - a genuine military hero who has always put "country first." To the contrary, there is evidence that he has always put John McCain first.
A recent Rolling Stone article written by Tim Dickinson, "Make-Believe Maverick", goes some distance in casting a shadow over the Arizona Senator's supposed hero status.
McCain freely admits that he led a lackluster youth, much of it spent carousing and womanizing, and that he was a poor student at the Naval Academy graduating fourth from the bottom of his class. However, he rarely, if ever, has mentioned how he repeatedly took advantage of his family ties — both his father and grandfather were Naval admirals. It was his family connections that got him into the Naval Academy in the first place, something that he likely would not have otherwise accomplished. It was through his father's intervention that John III was saved from expulsion from the Academy on more than one occasion. He used this same influence in obtaining most of his assignments during much of his military career.
Nor does he mention that he was a less than able pilot. Beside the A4 jet lost when he was shot down over Hanoi, McCain managed to lose no fewer than three other planes owing to his lack of piloting skills. None of these incidents involved combat.
Dickinson includes statements from a number of former fellow Navy colleagues and other acquaintances who claim that McCain was a short-tempered, spiteful bully and misogynist both before and after his time as a POW.
Much has been made of John McCain's POW experience in Vietnam during the last several months of campaigning for the presidency. No one will dispute that it was an horrific experience. But Dickinson claims there are issues regarding McCain's version of events during the five-plus years of his captivity. McCain claims that he was tortured and pretty much left to die until his captors discovered that he was the son of an American admiral. What he doesn't relate is that it was McCain himself who informed the Vietnamese of his family ties. According to some fellow POWs, McCain rather readily gave up much more than his name, rank, and serial number while held captive.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Jeff
What bullshit! At least Mc Cain served his country. Obama wasn't even a cub scout! Besides his "nice guy", even tempered smooth talking, what has Obama to offer?
I'd rather have an average, sometimes bad tempered guy in office anytime over an "empty suit".
2 - DaveNalle
Well, that's pretty reprehensible, and packed with some vicious little innuendo too.
McCain claims that he was tortured and pretty much left to die until his captors discovered that he was the son of an American admiral. What he doesn't relate is that it was McCain himself who informed the Vietnamese of his family ties.
Actually, McCain is on record admitting this in the interview he gave to US News and World Report when he returned from Vietnam.
According to some fellow POWs, McCain rather readily gave up much more than his name, rank, and serial number while held captive.
Given the physical condition which he was in, which was inherently much worse than other prisoners I think that's fairly understandable. Unlike other prisoners he needed substantial medical treatment just to survive.
To be fair, very few POWs actually manage to adhere strictly to that code.
And all of them were explicitly exonerated of any wrongdoing by a naval commission after the fact.
However, according to fellow POW, Air Force Lt. Col. John Dramesi, McCain's behavior as a prisoner, while certainly not dishonorable, was also not exceptional. He managed generally no better nor no worse than the average POW. He did what was necessary to survive.
Except that he was in much worse condition than any other POW who survived from the very start, and did what other POWs did despite massive physical injuries which left him permanently crippled. Plus unlike other prisoners when given the opportunity to leave Vietnam he did refuse to do so until others who had been there longer were freed. That one act makes him exceptional.
And for the record, the McCain campaign has 100 fellow prisoners who will verify his account of his actions and time in Vietnam.
Dave
3 - zingzing
but that still doesn't qualify him to be president.
4 - Baritone
It currently appears that the "empty suit" may well kick McCain's ass on November 4th.
While I can't attest to the truth of Dickinson's article, it is reasonably well documented.
I think it's telling that right wingers prefer an asshole in the WH. Of course, that goes without saying given its present tenant.
I don't believe that military service is a prerequisite for the presidency. Afterall, Bush only barely met that standard.
I really liked the comment in Dickinson's article stating that Bush was actually a better pilot than McCain.
B
5 - DaveNalle
Bush didn't log anywhere near the number of flight hours as McCain and didn't fly off aircraft carriers. It sounds like Dickinson doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about, or is just spewing some partisan bullshit.
And McCain's experience in government is what qualifies him for the presidency, obviously - not his POW experience.
Dave
6 - Baritone
Several other prisoners were also offered early release and refused. In order to obtain an early release the prisoners would have had to make signed statements against the US that could have been cause for court marshall.
McCain was NOT exceptional except insofar as he managed to survive while others didn't.
In the case of Lt. Col. Dramesi, he did NOT give any more information other than his name, rank, serial number and date of birth. He also attempted two escapes.
Regardless of the POW episode, the article goes to some length in describing the loutish behavior of McCain both before and after Vietnam. In a word, McCain was and is a prick. He has little regard for others and has always tooted his own horn forever trying to surpass the accomplishments of his father and grandfather. In his own way, McCain came from a wholly "insider," privileged and elitist background. He took full advantage of his family connections to get whatever the hell he wanted. He was a spoiled DC brat.
Dave, a few months ago you had little or nothing good to say about McCain. Now, since you have gone off the deep end as regards Obama, you've got your nose so far up McCain's ass, it's a wonder you can even breathe.
B
7 - zingzing
oh, he's breathing. the sweet smell of 72-year-old digestive issues.
8 - bliffle
McCain was advised by the US POW commander that if he took early release he would be court-martialed. That was SOP. And that is the reason he didn't take early release.
Nobody witnessed McCain being tortured.
McCain has always been a Navy brat and has never earned his income. He has always been on the government payroll. Little wonder he has so little regard for people who don't have the family advantages he had by fortunate birth, and who must struggle their entire lives for their daily bread.
McCain is a spoiled elitist.
9 - Baritone
I won't question whether McCain was tortured. It was pretty much standard procedure at the time. His physical condition now attests to it.
But the rest holds true. Even though, as Dave recounts, most former POWs were exonerated for any wrong doing during their captivity, none of them expected that at the time.
By any standard, McCain was not a good pilot. He retained his wings, again solely owing to his father's influence.
Dickinson tells of one jet McCain lost after having commandeered a plane to attend the Army/Navy football game (presumably at government expense,) he stalled out while attempting to make a routine landing at Norfolk Naval Air Station for refueling.
Another instance of poor flying occured while "hot dogging" over Spain deviating from his flight plan and flying far lower than allowed, he managed to slice through a power line which "plunged much of the area into a blackout."
It goes on.
B
10 - DaveNalle
Several other prisoners were also offered early release and refused. In order to obtain an early release the prisoners would have had to make signed statements against the US that could have been cause for court marshall.
Yes, but they all signed those statements anyway, including McCain. And BTW, it's 'martial' not 'marshall'.
McCain was NOT exceptional except insofar as he managed to survive while others didn't.
He did survive far worse injuries than most and also stayed longer than most. Plus when he came back he attracted the attention of the media and became a spokesman for all the POWs, which made him significant.
But say he's no more exceptional than any other POW. So? They all deserve to be honored. But he's the only one running for president. That decision doesn't diminish him relative to other POWs does it?
Dave, a few months ago you had little or nothing good to say about McCain. Now, since you have gone off the deep end as regards Obama, you've got your nose so far up McCain's ass, it's a wonder you can even breathe.
A few months ago we didn't have a bipolar race between McCain and Obama. It changes things. On the whole I'm indifferent towards McCain. In what I've written here I'm defending the truth more than McCain himself. I make no effort to defend his shortcomings. But no matter what is wrong with him and there's plenty - so far it's not even in the same order of magnitude as the problems with Obama.
Dave
11 - Clavos
Military tactical aircraft are inherently unsafe aircraft. They are designed for agility and performance, not safety, and several crash every year, even in peacetime..
Hotdogging among military pilots is as common as fleas on a dog. The last person you want in the cockpit of a fighter is some Calvinist tightass with a poker up his butt.
Just sayin'
12 - DaveNalle
Come on Clavos, George H. W. was a good pilot despite the poker up his butt.
Dave
13 - Baritone
I'm wrong. Dickinson is wrong. McCain is a fucking prince. He shits honey.
No, I take that back. He's a lying, self-aggrandizing asshole. Few military pilots loose three planes as did McCain and retain their flight privileges. McCain did so because of daddy.
McCain sought the media attention upon his return, not the other way around. As Dickinson notes, McCain left ship after the fire on the Forrestal with the media and characterized his role in the event as one in which he was instrumental in bringing the fires under control, when in actuality, he went below decks where he remained until the fires were under control. Perhaps he was directed to do so, but he had little or nothing to do with the turn of events after he escaped his plane. McCain enlarged his role for media consumption. Again, it's ALL about John McCain. I'm not saying he was a coward. I am saying he is a liar who will say and do anything to get ahead. He is far more driven in that regard than is either Obama or Clinton.
Dave, you are promoting the "truth" as you would prefer it to be. McCain ain't Rambo and he ain't John Wayne. He is a small, spiteful, condescending troll.
Martial - yeah, yeah.
B
14 - Clavos
I'm not saying he was a coward. I am saying he is a liar who will say and do anything to get ahead.
Yawn. He's a politician.
************
"I will lower taxes for 95% of Americans."
15 - Baronius
McCain has campaigned a lot like Kerry did, focusing on thirty years ago rather than on what he's done subsequently, or plans to do in the future. There's a little bit of bully in both of them, and they like to brag. That being said, there are a lot more question marks about Kerry's service record than about McCain's. That being said, I don't care. Just shut up about your past and talk about the issues, please.
It's weird. You need to demonstrate your character, explain your ideology, and lay out your agenda. That's just three things. It's amazing how many presidential candidates forget to do one or two of them.
16 - DaveNalle
Baritone, note that I havne't said one word defending McCain's shortcomings in the area of being an asshole. That's something where hard evidence is scant and it's somewhat subjective anyway. But you are offbase on his military record. Sure, he's not the great war hero of all time, but he's got a respectable record in that respect and you can't turn it into a negative on the facts, so you're barking up the wrong tree.
And note that you're going after McCain on personal issues here, not policy - that doesn't earn you any points with me. How about you defend Obama's proposed policies and tell us where the money is coming from to pay for them. That would be relevant.
Dave
17 - Baritone
Dave,
You have gone apoplectic in attacking Obama's past and character. Obama's fair game, but McCain is not? What, is Johnny a sacred cow?
The very same can be said for McCain's proposals. He is more out in left field than Obama.
When the shit hit the fan in the housing industry and wall street, neither campaign was prepared. They are both scrambling around trying to find something to grab onto by way of how to stablize the economy. Proposals from both sides fail to establish where the money is coming from.
By his own admission, the economy is not Johnny's strong suit. The Republicans have had eight years of screwing all this up. Obama and the Democrats just might succeed in getting a handle on things.
Stranger things have happened.
Regarding campaign promises, as you and I both know, most of those get tossed into the trash can before the chairs are removed from the Capitol steps after the inauguration. I wouldn't loose any sleep over how Obama will fund his proposals. Most will likely never see the light of day. Ditto for McCain should he win.
Since yours is not the last word on all things, I chose to believe that McCain has, at the least embellished his POW story. It is in keeping with his history and his character. And,if it's as you yourself have said, that it bears little on his qualifications for the presidency, someone ought to inform Johnny of that.
And, if McCain chooses to drag Obama's shit out into the street as he claims he is prepared to do at this evening's debate, he should be prepared for the same.
The word is "haven't" not havne't. But, I'm sure you know that. Right?
B
18 - DaveNalle
You have gone apoplectic in attacking Obama's past and character. Obama's fair game, but McCain is not? What, is Johnny a sacred cow?
Because Obama is evil and plans to destroy the basic principles of freedom on which our nation is founded. McCain, for all his faults, is not.
Since yours is not the last word on all things, I chose to believe that McCain has, at the least embellished his POW story.
Fine, if that's what it takes to live with selling out our liberty with a vote for Obama.
And, if McCain chooses to drag Obama's shit out into the street as he claims he is prepared to do at this evening's debate, he should be prepared for the same.
I'm hoping he'll spend some of that time demanding accountability for the Demcorats in congress who protected Fannie Mae from reform and oversight, while profiting personally from loans and campaign contributions.
Dave
19 - Ren Car
If John Kerry was not good enough to be president for the right wingers, so does John McCain.
If they say that Obama is an empty suit, bush jr. is an empty brain. I'd rather have an intelligent empty suit than an empty brain like Sarah Palin.
I have utmost respect for John McCain but he is no longer the Maverick he once used to be. He went to the dark side of the neocon lunatics.
20 - zingzing
dave: "Obama is evil and plans to destroy the basic principles of freedom on which our nation is founded."
even mccain wouldn't go so far as to say that.
obama's an arab!
21 - Ren Car
Accoding to Dave: Because Obama is evil and plans to destroy the basic principles of freedom on which our nation is founded. McCain, for all his faults, is not.
I thought Bush already destroyed the basci principles of freedom of our nation? There is nothing left to be destroyed. Obama intends to undo the destruction that Bush created
22 - Clavos
I wouldn't loose any sleep over...
The word is lose, not loose.
But, I'm sure you know that, right?
Grass houses, B-tone.
23 - Dr Dreadful
howe too drivve clavoss Crazie... lessen 1
24 - Dan(Miller)
Baronius,
I don't understand. How are character and ideology separable from a candidate's past? Some miraculous transformation, perhaps, since nomination?You comment(#15),
A candidate's agenda is campaign talk, where he discusses "the issues." Issue positions are often neither believed in when uttered nor implemented if elected; I find agendas hardly more creditable, or worthy of a vote, than an advertisement for a weight loss pill or a cure for baldness. Having said that, many people buy weight loss pills and cures for baldness.
LetEncourage Senators McCain and Obama to talk about their past -- what their ideologies are, how they were formed and how they have changed. Senator Obama may have better character than Senator McCain, or vice versa. A lot has been written about their respective characters, much of it hogwash. Both should demonstrate (rather than pontificate upon) whatever character they may have because that, to me at least, trumps just about everything else.Senator McCain's and Senator Obama's agendas will change if elected, and so will the issues; their characters and ideologies probably won't.
Dan(Miller)
25 - Clavos
howe too drivve clavoss Crazie... lessen 1
My wyf wud tel ewe thass not a dreyeve, Dock; i'ts a putte.
My comment #22 was inspired by B-tone's #17 to Dave:
The word is "haven't" not havne't. But, I'm sure you know that. Right?