He said what? The candidate's colorful language may come back to haunt him.
While Barack Obama gets attacked by the media for calling small town folks "bitter," the fact that John McCain reportedly called his wife a "trollop" and a "cunt" is apparently much less newsworthy.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Dr Dreadful
Mystifies me as well, Zedd. I reckon Dave and others like him are the ones being disingenuous.
Let's face it, at the rate this kind of nonsense is snowballing, if Obama wins the nomination, by the time November rolls around he'll only have to say something like "I had a sandwich for lunch" and there'll be Republicans screaming that he's disrespecting the hard-working people in the restaurant industry.
27 - Baritone
I think all the hits that Obama is taking for meaningless bullshit is out of desparation. The Reps are coming to the realization that McCain's got nothin'. He has no style, he has no class, he has no policy beyond "bomb Iran."
The Reps fear both Obama or Clinton as president because they actually have the capacity to think and make decisions (rather than being "the decider")on their own. They might actually get some of what they propose done (forbid the thought.) They might get things done through communication, negotiation or, failing that, through force of will.
B-tone
28 - Zedd
Clav,
You can be mean to me all day as long as you call me niña :o).
29 - Zedd
Doc, B-tone,
What concerns me is that the tendency to distort things has had a negative affect on our nation. We deal with none issues and our populous has been dummied down. People think that they are engaged politically when they are actually waddling in nonsense. All of the frustrated Americans who tune into talk radio and all of the spin portholes feel as if they are learning the ropes and affecting a positive change. What happens is that we end up with the elite running amuck creating wars for profit, manipulating consumers while experiencing record gains AND no one cares. They care about who is flip flopping, and who used the word bitter. They care about "family values" and school vouchers. It boggles the mind.
I am disappointed at Hilary for playing the game like the Reps. I know that she and Bill went through the school of hard knocks but we admired them for their practicality and shooting straight where policy and state of affairs were concerned. I feel disappointed because the Right accused them of being willing to do ANYTHING it takes to win, I and many like myself vehemently disagreed, thinking it was just the right wing nuts at it again. No one likes being wrong. I'm afraid I was, darn it!
30 - Dave Nalle
I think all the hits that Obama is taking for meaningless bullshit is out of desparation. The Reps are coming to the realization that McCain's got nothin'.
The Reps aren't the ones attacking Obama. McCain has barely spoken in public in the last few weeks. The GOP is just sitting back and watching. It's all Hillary and her army of surrogates.
Dave
31 - El Bicho
"The Reps aren't the ones attacking Obama."
Then why did John McCain criticize North Carolina Republicans in a Friday TV appearance for an attack ad that links Barack Obama to his former pastor and why did Linda Daves, the Republican party chairwoman, say that the commercial would not hurt McCain?
32 - Dan
So then this insulting "exchange" was overheard by 3 reporters who didn't report it because they were concerned about toxic language?
Yeah, that's the ticket.
33 - Andy Marsh
I always thought you had to put dumb in front of that word to make it really count!
There seems to be a lot of "stone throwing" going on around here! I know I've used that word before, towards women I don't know and towards women I love dearly! It goes along the lines of calling a spade a spade kinda thing...
I think I even used it to describe Mac Diva a while back...
34 - bliffle
Andy Marsh's self revelations do not make him appear more charming. Why does he do it?
35 - troll
...he has his reputation as a sailor to maintain
36 - Andy Marsh
Partly because of what troll said...and partly because I really don't give a rats ass if you think I'm charming...
37 - Christopher Rose
He said charmingly...
:-)
38 - Andy Marsh
CR - I've always been told I type like I talk!
39 - Clavos
According to one of my sources, the word has a far less pejorative connotation in Merrie Olde England than it does here; in fact, I'm told some use it as an everyday descriptive term, though I'm sure one wouldn't hear it used in Buckingham Palace or in the House of Lords.
40 - Christopher Rose
Oh, I thought you were quite smart underneath that gruff exterior you put on, Andy?
41 - Christopher Rose
It depends on the circles you move in, Clavos.
There are a whole bunch of social strata that would find it offensive and others, varying from the unredeemably chav-ish to earthy/arty types, that use it a lot.
I tend to float about from a hearty user to a total abstainer, depending on what I'm doing and with whom, but would tend to think of people who wouldn't approve of its justified use as hopelessly prissy - or my Mum!
42 - Christopher Rose
Anyway, isn't your source a neo-Scottish cunt rather than someone in "Merrie Olde England"?
43 - Clavos
Aye, laddie, that she is.
44 - Christopher Rose
People in those Celtic countries get pretty miffed if you refer to them as English, even immigrants like her!
45 - Andy Marsh
Guess I fooled you too CR!
46 - Christopher Rose
I still reckon there's a good bloke lurking somewhere under that gruff facade!
47 - Doug DeLong
For those guys who seem to think the word "cunt" is no big deal, I'd suggest asking your wife or girlfriend what she thinks, especially if it's hurled at her in anger.
48 - Andy Marsh
Doug - I know what my wife would say, but I also know she's not holding it against me for the time I said it to her 16 or 17 years ago! That would be an extra long grudge, wouldn't you say?
I wonder if anyone has talked to Mrs. McCain to see if she's still bothered by it...or better yet, if she even remembers it!!!
49 - The Obnoxious American
I'd like to weigh in here. It's clearly not right what McCain did. No man should talk to his wife that way. McCain obviously has a hot temper as has been previously reported.
That said, I don't think it's any of our business to judge what this man was saying to his wife, regardless of who was there to witness it. We are not privy to their marriage, and it's none of our business.
Moreover, I'd like all the supposedly enlightened men in this thread, who are married to the same woman for as long as McCain has been married to his wife, to stand up and be counted if they've never used disrespectful language with their spouse at any inopportune time. It's glass houses time. If we are going to be talking about his relationship with his wife, then let's be sure to hold him to the same standards we hold ourselves (or hopefully higher).
If anyone does stand up, I'd like to nominate them for sainthood (after verifying that they are indeed married, and married to an actual real woman).
50 - Andy Marsh
I have not used that word....
...this week!
51 - Baritone
I don't think most of us give much of a crap about the state of McCain's marriage. Perhaps she gives more than she gets. Who knows? Maybe that's typical of their interpersonal banter.
Regardless, the use of such words in public against one's spouse still reflects questionable judgement upon the good Senator.
It seems odd though, that so many here are eager to dismiss McCain's indiscretion while being far less forgiving of Obama based upon the target.
Which utterance is more accurate? One assumes that Mrs. McCain has a cunt, but by whatever definition one conjures, can it be demonstrated that she is a cunt? And then there's the trollop thing. Is she, as the Oxford Pocket American Dictionary defines the word, a trollop? 1.a disreputable girl or woman, 2. a prostitute.
Not knowing much about the woman, I can't make any definitive statements about her reputation. Prostitute? She may have in fact spread her particular gifts around as it were, but I doubt that she charged for her services as she is worth millions without her honorable spouse.
On the other hand, it is easily demonstrable that the "bitter" people about whom Obama was refering do in fact exist in our fair land.
If we're looking for veracity in a candidate, at least in this particular comparison, Obama wins hands down.
B-tone
52 - The Obnoxious American
"Regardless, the use of such words in public against one's spouse still reflects questionable judgement upon the good Senator."
I agree
"It seems odd though, that so many here are eager to dismiss McCain's indiscretion while being far less forgiving of Obama based upon the target. "
Hmm, well for one I hope you are not talking about me.
But I think that this is a bit of a weird thing to suggest. Are the two equal? I don't think so.
My point is that what happens within a marriage is between the two married people. We can't claim to know what preceeded those comments, or what the two people in a marriage consider normal in terms of how they relate to each other. Perhaps Mrs. McCain is a sub and likes it rough or perhaps in private she "beats him to within an inch of his life" (quoting pink floyd). I say that jokingly, but you get my point. In either case, if McCain wants to argue with his wife and call her names, we can't judge whether he is right or wrong for doing do. We can and should make judgements as to whether he should have done this publicly.
Compare that (as you did) to Obama's comments, in general about the American people. This was a comment about US, an ignorant comment. And this was wrong in an entirely different and more egregious way. I certainly can be more outraged that Obama generalizes about my gun hobby and thinks this is something I cling to because I am lacking his good governance.
53 - Andy Marsh
I think the thing everyone is missing here is that us "bitter" people LIKE using the C-word! It's something else we "cling" to! Our gutter language.
54 - Doug DeLong
A couple of points...
1) I don't believe that the importance of this story relates to this specific 16-year-old incident as much as it just provides us with a window into McCain's character and personality.
2) The whole "bitter" thing was basically a press invention. People wouldn't have given it a second thought if the media hadn't told them, "Hey, you should be upset by this." Obama was not "attacking" gun owners or church-goers. He was trying to explain, in a POLITICAL sense, why some people put more emphasis on some issues than others. The press, though, after being accused of going too easy on Obama, went looking for shit to get people riled up and any stupid, petty crap would do just fine.
As much as I enjoy the game of politics, there are times when it really makes me want to scream. So if I may....
AAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!
Thanks, I feel better now.
55 - The Obnoxious American
1) I agree completely. This and a few other situations. That said, I think you want a certain level of passion in your commander in chief. You wouldn't want a "yes dear" president!
2) A press invention? It's funny but your answer to #1 in terms of McCain and how the incident is less important than what it reflects, really also applies to #2 in terms of Obama.
It was the fact that this is how Obama understands the politics of the issue that is so offensive. And I really don't think the media cooked this one up, unless they drugged Obama and made him read from a script.
I do agree in terms of the media, that thye have not seriously challenged ANY candidate, in recent memory on points that matter. Media coverage of policy is of the dumb and dumber sort.
The media won't ever point out if a policy suggested by a candidate is wrong or even stupid, and they routinely ignore arguments against stated policies of the candidates. The only time policies are discussed is in terms of who sides with who, but never in terms of whether the claims a candidate makes about said policies are verifiable or even likely.
56 - Dan
At least we know that Obama really made his comment.
Proof is kind of important when making allegations.
57 - Clavos
The import of the word cunt is purely subjective. This is evident even from the minuscule sampling represented by the cohort commenting on this thread; there's no real agreement as to the word's "badness." Some fervently avow it is; others are indifferent to it.
What McCain's use of it in public reveals about his fitness to be president is zero; as has been pointed out repeatedly above, one man's ceiling is another's floor.
58 - Baritone
I do agree with Ob Am about what the press usually focuses on. I generally like Tim Russert, but I was dismayed that in his "Meet the Press" interview of Obama on Sunday, he spent nearly 20 minutes on nothing but the Rev. Wright issue. In contrast there were only a relative handful of questions regarding Obama's positions.
I don't agree with you about the lack of importance regarding McCain's treatment of his wife. If he feels obliged to embarrass her publicly, how might he deal with his staff and others he would likely come in contact with as president? Does he treat people other than his wife with respect? What would the tone of a McCain White House be if he disses people there in like manner?
B-tone
59 - Andy Marsh
Maybe it says something also that the press had to go back 16 years to find something bad on McCain...if it's really all that bad...could be a context thing like the Rev. Wright supporters keep trying to make his comments...you know...maybe they were seriously slamming each other in a joking kind of way...McCain had a lot more hair 16 years ago and the context seems to be that they were joking and in somewhat tight quarters...I mean, if there are only 3 people that supposedly heard this "nuclear bomb" of a statement...it must be a "nuclear bomb" of a statement...isn't it???
just a thought...
60 - The Obnoxious American
"I don't agree with you about the lack of importance regarding McCain's treatment of his wife."
You don't agree with me? I never said it wasn't important. Here is a quote from my first post:
"I'd like to weigh in here. It's clearly not right what McCain did. No man should talk to his wife that way. McCain obviously has a hot temper as has been previously reported."
61 - The Obnoxious American
Andy,
I do concur, I think that attempts to negatively color McCain as having equal transgrassions to those of Obama are a stretch. People still talk about the Keating 5 because there just isn't much else that is concretely negative to throw at McCain.
That said, McCain has had a few missteps. His misspeak in his mid east tour, his 100 years comment, his apparent temper. These may or may not be legitimate concerns, and certainly not nearly as major as some of the things Obama has said or done. But for the Obamabots, I am not sure that matters much, they seize and replay these transgressions as often as the media play clips of Wright. Hence these are still missteps.
If Dems wanted to actually debate issues, there is fodder, such as his anti tax cut stance, and his campaign finance reform. But I expect that for the mainstream Democrat, these issues are too far over heads to be discussed coherently. So we talk about the C Word.
PS, if anyone does think the C word is ok, then you obviously are either a virgin or gay. Not taht there is anything wrong with that :>
62 - Andy Marsh
I think they're (the Obamabots, as I've heard them called) are really waiting for the general election so they can paint McCain as a racist because his home state of AZ refused to support an MLK holiday back in the day...that's probably one of the worst things they'll find on him. It doesn't matter that the state recalled their car salesman of a governor over it, it'll all be McCains fault...wait and see...
63 - The Obnoxious American
Andy,
It already is. I heard this same charge in a different thread here on BC.
I am all fine with this. All of the attacks that have so far been drudged up against McCain are either completely disingenuous mischaracterizations (100 years in Iraq, economy sound, etc), blatant lies (refusal to support MLK, McSame or being a 3rd Bush term, potentially this C word situation), or worse.
I am happy to have a candidate in this position. When it comes time to debate in the GE, it's easy to dispel untruths, not so easy to explain bad or nieve policy.
64 - Baritone
McCain DID vote against the MLK holiday. His black audiences have reminded him of that more than once.
Actually, I don't believe that the McCain/cunt issue is particularly important. It's not getting much play in the press, at any rate.
As to Obama's supposed gaffs, both he and Clinton have been hard at it now for, what - at least the last 6 or 7 months. Each has made literally hundreds of appearances, given countless speeches and interviews, gone through around 20 debates. If all you've got to hang Obama with is his "bitter" comment and the rantings of a retiring bombastic preacher trying to get his 15 minutes (by the way, in that regard: Well done Reverend,) that's pretty weak stuff.
Let's face it. McCain hasn't really been tested as yet. He had a few encounters with his new found buddy, Mitt, but he hasn't had to grind away day in and day out over the long haul as have Hillary and Barack.
When the shit hits the fan come fall, we'll see just how on top of it Johnny Boy stays. Will he be able to give tit for tat, or might he wilt under the heat of constant scrutiny of every word, belch and fart emanating from his body?
B-tone
65 - Baronius
If no one else is going to say it, I will. We've got three of the lousiest human beings we've ever had running for president this year. McCain will curse and explode in anger; Obama will condescend and alienate people with crude generalizations; Clinton will sink the boat rather than turn over command.
There's an old joke about a teacher complaining that not only is a particular student a trouble-maker, but he has a perfect attendence record. We've got these louts for six more months, and we will all hate both nominees by November.
66 - The Obnoxious American
Btone:
"If all you've got to hang Obama with is his "bitter" comment and the rantings of a retiring bombastic preacher trying to get his 15 minutes (by the way, in that regard: Well done Reverend,) that's pretty weak stuff."
May I suggest that this is all we have because there isn't much else there at all. No real history, track record, legislation, etc. There is no there, there.
As far as it being weak, hardly. Any white candidate guilty of the same thing, would be out of the running faster than an article gets edited on BC.
"Let's face it. McCain hasn't really been tested as yet. "
In a heated presidential primary perhaps not, but to say he hasn't been tested ignores the full scope of his accomplishments. From that perspective, he's been tested way more than either Democrat.
"When the shit hits the fan come fall, we'll see just how on top of it Johnny Boy stays. Will he be able to give tit for tat, or might he wilt under the heat of constant scrutiny of every word, belch and fart emanating from his body? "
Lolll, that's a great question. I am axiously awaiting the show once the dems work this insanity out. I have no predictions either.
67 - The Obnoxious American
On the issue of McCain and MLK, here is a quote from wikipedia:
"McCain was elected the president of the 1983 Republican freshman class of representatives.[58] Later that year, he opposed creation of Martin Luther King, Jr. Day, but eventually changed this view, calling King "a transcendent figure in American history" who "deserved to be honored."[69][70]"
So I was wrong that this was a blatant lie, to say that he opposed MLK is merely a lie of omission. :>
That said, if we really want to argue about ideas that the candidates no longer hold, that's going to be a pretty interesting argument. When I was 5 I believed in the tooth fairy. Does that preclude me from having good judgement now? It's not like I believed in the tooth fairy until March, until I disowned the tooth fairy's actions, but not the tooth fairy herself, only to totally disown the tooth fairy a month or so later....
68 - Clavos
Is the tooth fairy a c?
69 - The Obnoxious American
every month or so, yes.
70 - Baritone
Baronius,
You are wrong about Obama. Obama is the best candidate of whatever party to come along in a long time.
B-tone
71 - Baronius
Baritone, I'll admit that I'm immune to Obama's charm. He seems like a 17-year-old who performs well on standardized tests, and thinks he's intelligent. He's got that fussiness and pride. He's like the guy who talks about the superiority of soccer at a Superbowl party.
Given my bias, I'm not the best person to anticipate public opinion over the coming months. But every candidate runs against the Washington establishment, and that shtick wears thin. What looks like contempt for politics as usual now, will start to look like contempt for anyone who dares to hold him to political standards. That puts him one step closer to John "Don't you know who I am?" Kerry.
72 - Joanne Huspek
And they're still married? I would have kicked that guy to the curb!
73 - Andy Marsh
To comment #72, that's why there are so many divorces in this ocuntry, because a word can now be used as a reason for divorce.
If you'd divorce your husband over one word you probably are a cunt!
74 - Ruvy
We've got these louts for six more months, and we will all hate both nominees by November.
Baronius,
We, kimosabe?
YOU'VE got these louts till November. We've got far worse until we have the balls to literally throw them out of the top floor windows of the Prime Minister's Building.
But, other than that minor point, your comment is 100% on the money.
75 - Baritone
Most louts don't understand that such an utterance is symptomatic of a much larger problem of insensitivity and disrespect. Anyone who could utter such an ugly remark to another, even in private is an arrogant asshole, certainly not worthy of sitting in the oval office. Anyone who would publically call his wife a cunt is likely a real dick.
B-tone