Yet Jewish support for Obama is far from a fluke. Most Jews also self-identify as Democrats — Liberals, even. But it's not as if the Democratic party, or worse, the liberal wing of the party, to whose views Obama subscribes, has been a particularly good friend of Israel over the years. Liberals are generally antiwar, pro appeasement, and in my experience, anti-Israel. Just look at the way Obama has been in favor of meddling, not in Iran but in Israel. I'm not saying that support for Israel should be the only, or even an important, measure of on what a Jew should base his or her vote. And I'll be the first to admit that Israel is far from perfect. But Israel is Jewish land, and if the Israeli Jews, people who hold the same moral values as Jews from New York, or anywhere else in the world for that matter, really did want to perform Genocide on the Palestinians, as so many Liberals like to claim, then they would have done it already. Does any American Jew, Liberal or otherwise, really believe that the Israeli/Palestinian "peace process" is stalled because of Jewish settlements? It's safe to say that the endless barrage of unaimed rocket attacks, suicide murderers with ball bearing laced C4, and an Arab culture of anti-Semitic Jewish hatred is probably much more of a cause for the stalled peace process than any extensions some folks are putting on their houses in contested border land (which incidentally, has always been constructed in order to give Israel more space from attacks by their enemies).
So if Obama's Middle East policy isn't what drove Jewish voters to favor him, then what was it?
Was it the promise of a government-run health care option? I know lots of Jews of Russian descent, many of them in the New York area, and many of those a mere generation or two from Soviet Russia. Sure, we're not talking out and out communism here in America right? Just the health industry. And the banks, and insurance, and also American auto makers. I think taking assets from people who paid for and owned stock in G.M. and giving them to the UAW is nothing at all like Communism or Socialism. At least the Media is still free right? No, this is nothing like the nationalization of Nazi Germany, or Chavez' Venezuela, or countless other instances where freedom was snuffed out faster than you can punch a chad. We are Jewish and we want a Public Option NOW!
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Glenn Contrarian
OA accuses us of 'legalized racism'.
Just another wonderful instance of a conservative accusing liberals of what the conservatives already do to a much greater degree.
2 - Glenn Contrarian
OA -
Right is right and wrong is wrong - and YES, the Jews have been terribly persecuted throughout history, from the days of the Roman occupation to the blood libels (which even continue today) to the assigned ghettos which began in the Inquisition and spread throughout Europe to the Holocaust...
...no one with a clear understanding of history would either deny any of that or assume that such anti-Semitism exists today!
THAT SAID - and you as a conservative should understand this instinctively - the historic persecution of Jews does NOT justify persecution of others BY Jews. The forced occupation - stealing - of what the world knew were Jewish lands throughout does NOT justify the Jews doing the same to what the world considers Palestinian land. There's a REASON Israel is called the 'twice-promised land'...for it was first promised by the British Crown to the Palestinians, and then given to the Jews to satisfy a promise to Chaim Weizmann.
I do not castigate the Brits nor the Jews of those days nor Chaim Weizmann - there is no blame for any of them. BUT nothing then justifies what Israel continues to do even now.
3 - The Obnoxious American
Glen,
This article isn't a debate about the righteousness of Israel as a Jewish land. The purpose of this article is for Jews, about Jews. For American Jews to rethink their near unanimous support for the Liberal wing of the Democratic platform.
FWIW, I happen to believe in a two state solution. But that second state needs to put down it's arms and thus far it has not. No honest observer can really say that the Palestinians are an actual partner for peace.
I have thought about the question you raise before, namely your characterization of Jewish actions, forced occupation and stealing. These are Jewish lands, should Jews not want to live in Israel because they were displaced a few centuries ago, as opposed to a few decades ago like the Palestinians? Fast forward a few more hundred years and the history reads that Muslims captured Jewish lands, then Jews captured it back, or rather the international community gave it to them. Doesn't seem nearly as provacative, and this is ignoring the fact that Palestinians were supposed to be relocated to Jordan (and many were), or that they for all intents and purposes could stop fighting and actually have a state this very minute if they were so inclined.
4 - The Obnoxious American
but all that said, I'd ask that you resist the urge, the incredibly strong urge, to make this a discussion about Israel. Because we both know that argument will rage as long as the Israeli-Palestinian issue itself!
5 - Silas Kain
My attitude is that everybody should just get the hell out of the business of the Middle East countries. It's about time they all started talking TO each other instead of AT each other. The three "great" religions all share a heritage stemming from Abraham. Surely, amidst all the hyperbole, there must be some common ground.
And, to seal the deal, Jerusalem must be made an independent district from all factions and placed under the direct rule of the United Nations with the UN moving from NYC to Jerusalem. They - the United Nations - created this mess. Let them fix it.
6 - Ruvy
Glenn,
There is no such a thing as Palestinian land and no such an animal as a Palestinian. It's all bullshit and all the Arabs know it. [Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]
Let's drive this home with a sledge-hammer.
"I don't think there's a Palestinian nation. There's an Arab nation. I don't think there's a Palestinian nation. That's a colonial invention. Since when were there Palestinians? I think there's only an Arab nation. Until the end of the 19th century, Palestine was the southern part of Greater Syria."
Note well, these words were spoken not by some Jewish nationalist, nor even a Jew at all, but by former MK Dr. Azmi Bishara in an interview with Yaron London several years ago. Bishara is a leader of Israeli Arab citizens who openly identify with the enemy, and who was forced to flee Israel under suspicion of aiding HizbAllah in wartime.
So, there is NO PALESTINE, AND NO PALESTINIANS! If these Arabs can con Israelis into believing lies, and into committing treason because of them, as every prime minister since YitzHak Rabin has done, the Israelis who believe these lies and have committed treason ought to be hung for treason. That means every man who has been prime minister since Peres, except for Sharon, who is functionally dead.
That is our problem.
[Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor]
All of Israel and what is now Jordan, as well as the Heights of Golan is JEWISH under the Resolutions on Palestine of 24-25 April 1920, signed in San Remo Italy. This is international law and all the rest of the "resolutions" concerning this land are just so much bullshit and have all the legitimacy of an Arab telling you a price in the market - none, in other words. The Arabs are the interlopers here, and should be damned grateful we do not kick them all the fuck out.
7 - Ruvy
OA, re comment #6, somebody has got to get up and say the things you are unwilling to. Obama is anti-Israel, his chief aide-de-camp, the child of Jewish patriots is anti-Israel, there are a shitload of high ranking Democrats, from Indik to Ross, who are all anti-Israel.
In the end, OA, being Jewish is all about Israel, because our faith and our origins all stem from this land, and the commandments we are commanded by G-d to obey are to be obeyed HERE, not in California or New York. This means that all the anti-Israel Jewish shitheads are traitors as well, but traitors beyond the reach of the Israeli Criminal Code. So, a believing Jew like me has to rely on the Living G-d of Israel to kill them, and I have full faith that He will arrange it so that they do not go to their graves in peace.
8 - The Obnoxious American
Hahahaaaa Do your thing Ruvy, we're essentially saying the same thing here. Of course, I'm not suggesting that American Jews, or even anti-Israeli Jews, should be killed, just perhaps they should register to vote as Republicans, or at the very least stop voting for guys like Obama :>
9 - Silas Kain
I think we've discussed this before, Ruvy, but don't you think Arabs have been lying to their Palestinian cousins as well? Let's face it, were it not for 'Palestine' would not the Arab world find another one of its own tribes to use as the model of oppression?
To me, the Palestinians for the most part are unwitting pawns in the game. Again, Israel and its Arab neighbors need to tell the rest of us to get out of the ballgame and allow those who live in the Middle East to determine their fate. Colonialism is over, let the work somehow begin.
10 - Ruvy
First, Silas, you have to comprehend that Azmi Bishara and Mahmoud Abbas belong to the same people - the Arabs wqho live in the Land of Israel. There are no "Palestinians" no matter how many times Arabs scream ya filastin! and shoot rifles in the air or give sieg und heil salutes. As for the Arabs in Syria, Lebanon or Iraq, they can take in their brothers - but they won't. The best saolution is to let Arabs call Jordan "Palestine", have Amman as their capital and get the message across clearly that they will not be driven from their homes where they live under Israeli sovereignty west of the Jordan, that they will have home rule for the most part, but if they aere unwilling to live in peace, they will be driven out - permanently.
All the foreigners - the Americans the Brits the Russkies, the Germans, the French, and most especially the damned Vatican, have to either get the hell out of OUR land - or be driven out. They have NO business here at all.
11 - Ruvy
OA,
As for the American Jews who supported Obama, they are too stupid to have buyers remorse. They'll first figure it out when Obam declares that Jews are on the wrong side of history, and mobs loyal to him start to let them understand just what that means. Hopefully, by that time, you will have figured out to get your family out of the States, as little as you like the idea.
12 - The Obnoxious American
Lolll Ruvy,
Usually your predictions are a bit extreme. However, with Obama's brown shirts (Americorps) and the blindly following media, the scenario you suggest is probably not that extreme of a prediction. Extreme or not, let's just hope that cooler heads prevail and support for Israel continues to our satisfaction.
13 - doug
It's laughable to read somecall bullshit when he subscribes to the bullshit that he can't use the letter o in god. The middle east will never be solved as long as superstitious people whose thinking never got out of the dark ages are involved
14 - Ruvy
Doug,
If you want to laugh at the way I show respect for G-d, fine. Just don't come to the village I live in to do so. My neighbors might not appreciate your scorn and you may find it so unpleasant that I'll have to stop them from showing their "hospitality".
You seem unable, however to counter anything I've said on a real level. Dismissive contempt is not much of an argument. If that is all you can manage, don't waste the effort to type anything.
15 - Arch Conservative
C'mon Glenn....liberals have institutionalized racism and dependency in this nation. It's their bread and butter. Make a bunch of empty promises while blaming the evil racist GOP for everything that's wrong, fail to deliver on those promises and then blame the GOP all over again.
Obama truly is king of the pussies. Never before have so many infantilized, whining, loser, crybabies looking for an endless stream of handouts had so much reason to believe that all their hopes and dreams would come true.
Oh and I agree with you Ruvy...America should get the f--- out of the middle east. Then we should purge our own nation of the corruptive influences (ie all the fucking moonbats and their henchmen). After that our foreign policy is we nuke anyone that even looks at us crosseyed whether it's that crazy haired midget on the Korean peninsula or some dipshit screaming about allah. Hey mohammed we dropped a nuke on your head because we could.....now fuck off!
16 - The Obnoxious American
Doug,
People do that out of respect, not superstition. It's taking the lord's name in vain - actually one of the ten commandments. Faith and respect for God is a bit more important than to be classified as mere superstition in my view.
17 - Silas Kain
...America should get the f--- out of the middle east. Then we should purge our own nation of the corruptive influences (ie all the fucking moonbats and their henchmen
AMEN! Especially moonbats like Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity. And their henchmen the Promise Keepers, Mormon Church and that stupid famiuly values group that is run by women so ugly that they don't even know what sex is.
After that, all I want is world peace.
18 - The Obnoxious American
Silas,
I'll agree to getting rid of Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity, if you can agree to getting rid of Keith Olbermann, Rachel Maddow, Paul Krugman, Thomas Friedman, E.J. Dionne, Eugene Robinson, Al Franken, Arianna Huffington, Kos and countless others.
I find it so hillarious that the Left loves to demonize Rush, and Sean and Ann, meanwhile for each of these guys, there are literally 10 or more left wing moonbats who are equally or often more rabid (though with the opposite political orientation). To hear libs tell it, these are supposed real journalists. Some even have a Nobel Peace Prize, not that that has meant much in recent years.
19 - Baronius
Way back before January 20th, I made a comment in "support" of Obama's foreign policy. I said that his weakness would be far more likely than McCain's strength to get us in a direct war or a proxy war with Iran, which I thought would prove to be a good thing over time. As with most of my predictions about Obama, I hope I'm wrong. It'd be great to see a new regime in Tehran, or something less bloody than a war. But this whole "strength through whimpering fear" thing has the potential for catastrophe.
20 - zingzing
ha!
archie: "we should purge our own nation of the corruptive influences (ie all the fucking moonbats and their henchmen)."
hi, fascist.
"After that our foreign policy is we nuke anyone that even looks at us crosseyed whether it's that crazy haired midget on the Korean peninsula or some dipshit screaming about allah. Hey mohammed we dropped a nuke on your head because we could.....now fuck off!"
you do realize you sound like a bloodthirsty little neonazi, don't you?
i've never seen your idiocy spelled out so obviously. i'm sure you make a lot of people real, real happy.
21 - Glenn Contrarian
Wow, listen to all the hate.
All posted by people who know history...but who don't UNDERSTAND history.
Violence begets violence begets violence. Violence is sometimes necessary, but there are those whose only solution is the use of more violence.
I read the hatred on this page, and I wonder how many of the right-wingers here sanctimoniously call themselves "pro-life".
Good thing that none of you is in charge of our foreign policy - otherwise you would cause the deaths of countless innocent people.
I think I'll ignore this thread, because spending time here would be about as useful as arguing with a drunk.
22 - zingzing
i'm again coming to the inevitable conclusion that archie is a liberal who has created a wonderful, satiric character, designed to show how much buffoonery is possible as a right wing nut job. you have to admire his perseverance in sticking with the character, as well as the humor.
if this is true, archie, you are a genius. i'm going to stick with my theory and see if i can find any cracks in it.
23 - Ruvy
All posted by people who know history...but who don't UNDERSTAND history.
Hi, Glenn,
I'm the left-winger here, not the right-winger - savefor belidving in fiscal responsibility.
And you have been unable to answer me a word. I've shown those you argue for to be liars and you want to walk away?
[Personal attack deleted by Comments Editor] That's why I'm a socialist. I can't stand liberal cowards on the one hand - or fascists on the other. And more often then not, scratch a "liberal" and what you find underneath is a nasty "do as I tell you, not as I do" fascist.
And, to drive the point home, I'm not interested in running your foreign policy. Your nation blew its wad, morally and a whole other host of ways. I'm interested in steering my nation back to a path of righteousness - without reference to your domineering, overwheening and deceitful culture.
Have a good morning....
24 - Silas Kain
I am pro-life and I'm not ashamed of it. I believe that every woman has the right to choose her own destiny, THAT, my friends, is PRO-LIFE.. While the abortion issue is complicated, it does not take away the basic right of a woman to have reproductive freedom so long as that freedom is exercised under certain guidelines so as not to create a society where abortion is the chosen method for birth control. Conservatives and religious fanatics far more dangerous than the Taliban would have you believe that THEY are pro-life. They are not. A person who prohibits a woman from abortion is not pro-life, they are a thinly veiled version of Hitler's Nazi movement.
Obnoxious insofar as your purge of liberal pundits, you can have them all with the exception of Franken (the rightful Senator from Minnesota) and Maddow. Olbermann is over the top and Dionne, is, well, Dionne. There's enough hot air being spewed by fringes on both sides. It's time for middle of the road pundits to step forward and wriggle the power away from the fringes who are more of a threat to our national security than a boat load of Cubans on Florida's shores.
And while I mention Mr. Franken, let me note that this fight against Franken is not only Norm Coleman's. There are plenty of Democrats in Congress and in the White House who fear Franken's rise to the Senate. In many ways, he's Paul Wellstone reincarnated. In others, a Franken term would give the Democrats the magic number of 60 which will translate into Democratic defeats in next year's elections. Don't kid yourselves, folks. The Democrats loath Coleman but in the back rooms where smoking and blow jobs occur, there is trepidation in the ranks if Al Franken takes office.
Ruvy, I could not agree with you more about the United States getting the hell out of your backyard. Enough is enough. It's time we ship the United Nations to Jerusalem, cut off all foreign aid to ALL countries in the Middle East and start tending to our own affairs. But, in order for that to be accomplished, Israelis need to make it clear to Jewish Americans. You want us out. Your brothers and sisters in faith are equally part of the problem. Their influence in American politics is such that our politicians are too timid to pull back for fear of economic and political reprisals. I think Israelis are fully capable of administering their own affairs in that region and if the U.S. got the heck out, I think the Israelis would find that their standing with the Arab community will rise. You all share the same genetics. You all share the same land. You all share the same Patriarch. I think you all can figure out a way to make it work without our so-called guidance.
And for you apoplectic visionaries of the impending Apocalypse, remember one thing. Jesus looked more like an Arab than a white man. Deal with it.
25 - Silas Kain
Glenn, if I exhibited any hate, it was not intentional. If I offended you in any way, please indicate what it was that I may have written which would cause you disdain. And, finally, don't run away from the thread. Arguing with drunks is a great way to relieve tension!