Why African-Americans should stop using slavery as a social crutch.
Syndicated columnist Walter E. Williams pouts and complains that calls for the Virginia legislation to issue decrees of apologies for slavery fall far short. In fact, he goes the extra mile and suggests that whites owe blacks something. He seems to suggest that each and every white person should resolve black problems in Virginia – as if blacks themselves are unable to do anything.…
Article comments
226 - G. Chell
"In Texas, a While male who killed a man got probation and has been stopped by the police numerous times for cocaine possession.
A Black man in Texas who had been on parole for robbing someone of their $2 (shameful and weird) got caught for smoking a joint and has been in jail for 17yrs.
How can we forget."
Comment: Let us do something about it. Let us get as many legal immigrants to become citizens..let us make whites an electoral minority in Texas as soon as possible..that is the sentence that fits the crime...otherwise Texas wont change...we have whites in power who want to pay women to have the baby and not abortion, but once they are born, want to deny them citizenship if even one of the parents is illegal....if many Texan whites have their way if a female US citizens is raped and the man arrested happens to be an illegal, the baby would not automatically get US citizenship.....let us do something about it before it is too late!!
227 - Paotie
Ok, let's try again (now that we've figured out the spam word):
Some of you have claimed I misinterpreted Williams' article. I disagree and here's why:
1)Williams discusses current international slavery in the same vein as slavery in the US during the 1800's
2)Williams provides the segue between slavery in the 1800's and black societal problems (crime, unemployment, education) in 2007 in Virginia
3)Williams demands legislators in Virginia fix BLACK ONLY issues in Virginia
Williams also mentions black h.u.s.t.l.e.r.s. (spam word) who force whites into appeasing their demands by virtue of imposing guilt or other political forms of coercion to advance these black h.u.s.t.l.e.r.s. and their political motives and constituents (professional black victims).
Williams, in my opinion, empowers these black h.u.s.t.l.e.r.s. by doing the very thing they do: utilize statistics to correlate some fictional link between slavery in the 1800's here in the US, and the 2007 black crime, unemployment, and educational issues. As I said, being deaf, I do not adhere to the notion that blacks cannot help themselves and commit crimes and flunk out of school because of society in general. I fail to see that relevancy, and am allowed to do so because as a minority, I see the differences between blacks, and say, deaf people, who tend to suffer in far more extremes than blacks do today.
And, Williams would demean the victims of international slavery by first apologizing for it, and then demanding the Virginia legislature fix black problems while ignoring slavery elsewhere in the world. But, the crux of his article was about fixing black problems in Virginia - nothing more and nothing less - even if he submitted a pathetic apology for enslaved victims today.
It may be possible that some of you may be conditioned to believe that slavery in the US in the 1800's and the current black unemployment rate in the US are interlinked forever. Williams proves that point very succintly, because if he hadn't, then he would've demanded that Virginia fix the educational system for ALL children and not call for resolutions for issues that impact BLACKS ONLY.
Ok? If you don't like my view, that's fine. You can tell me to get over it, too.
:o)
Paotie
228 - Blair
Your arguments actually refute the contention that race is simply a social construct.
We know Oprah has mixed African and Native American ancestery because computers fed DNA samples can identiy genetic markers that characterize racail differences. (Native Americans are descended from people who crossed into the Americas from Asia. After the land bridge between Asia and the Americas collapse, they evolved in continental isolation. Today, they are grouped as a separate race. Paleontologists can identify Native Americans from Asians simply from anatomical differences.)
You make reference to "human adaptibility." Humans adapt genetically as well as behavourly to environmental and social changes. Adaptibility is simply another term for natural selection, the driving force behind genetic change that create racial differences.
Most Americans continue to think of race as a matter of skin color, but skin color is actually an unreliable indicator or race because skin color varies as dramatically within races as it does between races. (Southern Europeans, for example, are much darker than Northern Europeans. Some African tribal groups have lighter skin than others.) Today, genetic markers devide humanity into groups: African, European, Asian, Eastern Mediterrean, Native American and Australian.
All humans are descended from a small group of humans who evolved in Africa. About 50,000 years ago, a small band of this group migrated out of Africa and populated the world. As the groups moved into different continents, they continued to evolved genetically in continental isolation.
People object to racial classication because because bigots have so often used race to promote racist agenda. If we were talking about animals rather than humans, we would use the term "sub-species" rather than "race." For example, dogs, coyotes, and foxes are canine sub-species. They are all descended from the wolf, but have genetic differences that distinguished them from wolves and from one another. Evolution works the same in humans as it does in animals.
Medical research into genetic structures makes it almost certain that some human-directed genetic engineering lies in our immediate future. For examnple, within our lifetime, it might be possible to insert genes into human embryoes that counteract genes that cause hereditary disease. The concept is horrfying, unless you happened to possess genes that cause a herediatary disease, because it has such potential for abuse.
Mental as well as physical disorders tend to decrease rather than increase as IQ rises. (People with higher IQ may make better choices about what to eat, drink and not smoke.) There is some association between mental disorders and extremely high IQs (pure mathmaticians who aren't eccentric are consider abnormal), but this probably apples to less than one percent of the population. However, my friends who work as diagnoticians (IQ testers) in the local school district, tell me parents are wrong to hope their children have genuis IQs above 140 because they will have trouble relating to their peer group. In thir view, an IQ of about 120, which indicates a person should have no trouble handling collegiate-level academic work, is just about right. (One of the reasons people think IQ makes no difference is that they tend to associate with people who have the same IQ as they do. Makes one wonder who Stephen Hawkings hangs out with.)
229 - G. Chell
"Medical research into genetic structures makes it almost certain that some human-directed genetic engineering lies in our immediate future. For examnple, within our lifetime, it might be possible to insert genes into human embryoes that counteract genes that cause hereditary disease. The concept is horrfying, unless you happened to possess genes that cause a herediatary disease, because it has such potential for abuse."
Within the next one hundred years that mixture of races reduces certain hereditary diseases and creates more intelligent human beings...the reverse of what the bigots have been saying.
230 - Lumpy
I don't care what color skin u have when I shoot you the blood comes out red.
231 - Blair
Lets hope racial mixing creates more women who look like Halle Barry (European/African) and Salma Hayek (Eastern Med/Eruopean/Native American). There are probably lots of good looking interacial guys too, but who cares? Once we all blend in, maybe there will be no racial prejudice. (In the 1970s, I once dated a black woman who told me I looked like I had been taken out of the oven half baked.)
In theory,too much racial and ethnic mixing could eventually produce people with chromosomes so complex that they would only be able to breed with members of their own group. Geneticist aren't concerned about this because it would take multiple century and adaptations would probably prevent it from happening.
232 - Zedd
Blair
You missed it. Stick with me. The point is that Oprah's Blackness is a social construct. The adaptation of her ancestors over time have created certain traits. Those traits were prevalent in people from certain regions, again because of environmental/social phenomena. What she is classified as is not really indicative of what she is.
Also understand that within the Asian community lets say, there are so many macro and micro variations. The linkages could be closely related or distant by thousands of years. Within that "race" there are several races.
Simply because one can gauge what part of the world ones ancestor came from based on a genetic (evolutionary) map, it doesn't mean that there is really such a thing as race. As time passes we will be able to narrow down our genetics to even more detailed conclusions. Those conclusions will surpass our narrow categories (race) they will approximate various villages or subcultures that have nothing to do with race but more so with individuals or small bands. What will your race obsessed do with you logic then?
Also, what do your Bell Curve analyses do with African Immigrants who do just as well as Asian immigrants in upper education? What do you do with the fact that in Britain, Africans are the most educated group. Considering the FACT that the factor that separates African Americans from Whites and Asians is their dominant African traits. Why is it that Africans do so well in academia?
Also, considering that Hispanics for the most part are a combination of European and Asian "races", their academic statistics or IQ numbers should lie in between those of Whites and Asians.
Think about your pseudoscience a little harder then accept that Western civilization has come up with all sorts of measures to elevate its proles. As the world gets smaller, all of those assumptions will end and only then will we be liberated, meaning Whites too. Its burdensome trying to uphold a myth. It taxes the soul. Let it go and start looking at everyone as being just like you. YOU will be free. You don't realise it but you've been arguing that YOU are superior.
Actually originally races were defined by the ability to procreate together. We are one race. I know you know that.
233 - Zedd
G.Shell, STM and anyone interested in the Texas cases.
The Gaurdian. A UK publication
Dallas Morning News
ABC News
I guess it's true STM.
How do we get over it?? It's a real question.
234 - Blair
Zedd: By saying that there are races within races in the Asian community, you seem to be acknowledging that race exists. The "traits" that make Oprah "blackness" are genetic traits created by evolutionary response to enviornmental conditions. Together, these genetic traits add up to race. DNA analysis simply confirms what was once subjective rather than objective definition of race.
Nobody, except the KKK, is saying that race should define who you are as an individual. (Oddly, its the people who pretend to abhor racial classification who insist on race-based affirmative action program rather then income-based affirmative action programs.)
It's not hard to guess which side of the Bell Curve Oprah falls on. The Bell Cuve says all races produce individuals who rank at the very highest level of IQ. People with higher than average IQs compose most of the professional classes in all countries. Although parents with low high IQs sometime produce children with high IQs, as a rule brighter parents produce brighter children. IQ rises with economic status for all races, but the IQ difference between races is constant within economic levels. Black immigrants who are edging out native-born African Americans in college admissions typically come from the professional classes in their home countries. They have above average IQs. This doesn't refute the message of the Bell Curve. (Many people contend that Asian Americans, especially Japanese Americans, outperform other racial groups due to "out-selection." Their ancestors came from the professional class, or higher IQ groups, within their country of origin.)
Hispanic Americans can be of any race. Mexican Americans are typically about 60 percent European and 40 percent Native American. (Although Native Americans are descendants of immigrants from Asia, they have evolved separately in continental isolation to such an extent they are considered a separate race. Paleontologist can distinguish Native American skeletons from Asian seletion simply from anatomical differences.) Mexican Americans score higher than African Americans but lower than European and Asian Americans on IQ test. This is true even though the majority of Mexican American immigrants come from Mexico's lower classes. African Americans outperform Mexican Americans academically, but this is probably due to the language barrier. (The high school drop out rate for African Amricans is dismal, but the drop out rate among Mexican American students is horrendous.) This will change as Mexican Americans assimilate into American society.
In saying this, I would like to stress that statistics that apply to large groups do not apply to individuals. For example, they do not justify the assumption that a specific member of a racial minority got his or her job due to affirmative action. I would also like to point out that accepting a Darwinian vew of evolution does not mean we have to settle for an unjust society. Hopefully, we have evolved beyond "survial of the fittest." We should work to create a society that provides not only equal opportunity but reasonably equal results for all segments of society. If the wage gap between the "cognitive elite" and so-called working classes continues to widen, we are going to end up with a very large proletariate and an unstable society. People with higher IQs than mine will have to figure out how to make this happen.
235 - Blair
To Chell:
Federal laws that impose mandatory sentences for drug related crimes are obviously producing unintended consequences. Ironically, they were enacted at the urging of African American community leaders who complained that the drug traffic was destroying their inner city neighborhoods. Now incarceration is destroying African American communites. (It's also destroying Mexico, which has been taken over by drug cartels. It time to admit we have lost the war on drugs and consider legalizing drugs. It would be more effective to invest the money we now spend on building prison system on drug education centers.
236 - Blair
To Chell:
The military doesn't target African Americans. It does target Hispanic Americans because they are under represented in the military. Most recruits, non Hispanic whites included, come from the lower middle class because everyone else is going to college. Non-Hispanics whites are overrepresented in the combat units and suffer the higher percentage of casualties. African American recruits tend to sign up for combat support units that trained them in skills they can use after leaving the service. More African Americans females than non-Hispanic white and Hispanic white females sign up. As I pointed out, things are beginning to change as black NCOs send their children to college. Many African Americans who follow their fathers into the service are coming in as officers rather than enlisted soldiers. I work with a black combat vet who retired as a sergeant. His son was just promoted to lieutenant colonel. (Talk about upward mobility.)
I never said benefits were equally distributed. I said that legislations such as the Homestead Act and GI Bill were not specifically designed to benefit whites. I doubt race was even a consideration. More whites were in a position to take advantage of these programs. Today, social legislation tend to be either race neutral or specifically designed to benefit minorities. The question we should be asking ourselves is why aren't more African Americans and Hispanic Americas positioning themselves to take advantage.
I'm in favor of affirmative action progams, although I think they should be modified. Now that Hispanic Americans, Native Americans, certain Asian ethnic groups, Pacific Islanders and non-Hispanic white females are included, about 80 percent of the population is eligible for affirmativ eaction. The real income gap is between the "cognitive elite" and Americans with ordinary intellectual capacities. I am will to forgive African Americans for giving us jazz and soul music, then following up by sticking us with rap music. (I would gladly pay rapartions if it gets rap music off the radio.) I would favor any legislation that tends to offer not only equal opportunity but reasonably equitable results. However, from my window I can look across the Rio Grande into Mexico and think of all the people who are (literally) dying for a chance to grab onto the lower rung of the American encomonic ladder. This make tampering with the economy a little frightening. Rising from poverty to middle income status in the United States takes very little effort. You have to be almost anti-social to not accomplish it. If American society is so racially unjust, why do some many people want to become members of its "oppressed" minority?
237 - Paotie
Blair:
I enjoy reading many of your posts, and especially agree with your question as to why so many minorities seem to embrace the "oppressed" state when they have more than ample opportunity to not be oppressed. Even affirmative action programs, geared and designed to create at the very least, a "level playing field" for minorities and to create also, at least the impression that geographical locations were represented in accordance with local demographics.
For those of you who would complain that your ability to find a job rests with affirmative action, consider this: in the late 1990's and early 2000's, it was widely viewed that an "empowerment program" was successful if X number of disabled people were employed. Many programs claimed to be successful in finding jobs for the disabled.
Except that many of those who were disabled were hired merely because they were disabled, and not because of any skills they had. For example, a blind woman with a master's degree was hired to shred sensitive documents, and everyone applauded and jumped for joy that she was no longer unemployed. A man in a wheelchair was hired to fold clothes at the Gap, and everyone remarked that, indeed, all was well with the world. And deaf people were hired to wipe down sweaty gym equipment and mirrors, and people praised the lawd that all was well.
But, none of these people were hired for their skills at all - only their disabilities. So, sure, affirmative action programs sometimes reduces people to feeling they're token employees; conversely, someone else is missing out on a job that may be given to a minority. And, keep in mind that when the market turned bad, guess who were the first ones laid off? Not blacks. Not hispanics. Not asians. The same disabled people I mentioned.
Keep in mind that a disabled person, should one ever apply for a job within the affirmative action spectrum, will generally not be considered. A black man who can hear, for example, will 9 out of 10 times be hired over a white, deaf man who has the same skills, if not more. The knock against the deaf man would be his disability.
So, why do minorities seem to love being "oppressed?" My guess is because it's a fall-back excuse. "I can't get a job because I'm black."
Bullshit.
Thanks again, Blair, for your posts (I don't agree with EVERYTHING you've said, but at least with regard to your most recent post, I sure do.)
:o)
Paotie
238 - Zedd
Blair,
I wont argue with you further because it seems that there are some basic things that you don't understand about the categories of races that are acknowledged.
Also you keep missing the point.
You also make claims that are simply not true.
BTW Because I know lots of African immigrants I can tell YOU what their demographics are. It is not the intellectually gifted who are leaving. It is those who get an opportunity. Most of those who are well of prefer to stay home. The lifestyle is better. You have maids and you don't have to deal with racism and you are home. Of the Africans that I know (there are many) I would say that 20 percent come from wealthy homes. The rest made their way here in various ways. Most African cultures promote hard work.
The IQ thing is hog wash.
Also FYI Native Americans are fully categorized as Asians or Mongoloids. They are not different. The Asian blood in African Americans is Native American Blood. Many Mexicans don't claim or know their Native American heritage but those that have NA blood are far far far more than 40%. If you've been to Spain you'd understand just how much they are Native American in characteristics.
Catch you next time.
239 - Zedd
Blair
Lastly
The military has been targeting the AA community for years.
You just make things up.
240 - Zedd
Paotie
sed: A black man who can hear, for example, will 9 out of 10 times be hired over a white, deaf man who has the same skills, if not more. The knock against the deaf man would be his disability.
And probably 10 out of 10 more than a Black man who is deaf. Don't forget there are disabled people in all races. You are favored over non Whites who are disabled.
By the way I do feel for your challenge. It makes my heart ache. I am sorry that our world is still so unsophisticated. I am sorry that I am not more alert about issues that pertain to disabled people. Press on! Remember, at no time in history do people just change to become more sensitive about any topic on their own. You have to annoy. In the same way that we didn't like it when we were growing up when our parents told us the truth about life, you have to speak the truth regardless as to how uncomfortable or bored people may be. Their ignorance, no matter how many there are, does not diminish your experiences and their validity. My taking for granted my blessings and conveniences as a hearing person doesn't make your challenges any less. You have to say it. We all will die and if we don't say it (say I love you, say I'm tired, say you are wonderful, say it hurts), our lives loose meaning.
Whats with the moniker. Do you get high or something?
241 - Clavos
Many Mexicans don't claim or know their Native American heritage
Not true, Zedd. Mexicans with indigena blood are fully cognizant that they are Indians (NOT "native americans"; they don't call themselves that) and are immensely proud of their heritage.
Many Mexicans have no indigena ancestry whatever. My oldest friend from childhood is of Lebanese descent; another is German. Both are fifth or sixth-generation Mexicans. There are quite a few Mexicans of Middle Eastern descent, as well as many of European (and not just Spanish, either) backgrounds, and some Asians as well.
Africans are a small and relatively recent segment of the population, because the Spaniards did not bring them in as slaves; they enslaved the Indians instead. I never met a Black person until I came to the US as an adolescent.
Some of the Indian groups have retained their Pre-Columbian cultures to a remarkable degree, especially those in the southern border areas with Guatemala and in the interior portions of the Yucatan peninsula. In the north, the Tarahumaras don't even use Spanish as their principal language (most don't even speak it).
On another note: you should read the book "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" by Thomas Sowell.
Sowell presents a very interesting and somewhat contrarian view of contemporary Black American culture, as well as unique looks at slavery and even discusses the Jews and Nazi Germany; all with a very fresh and thought-provoking point of view.
It's very well documented and an interesting read.
242 - Paotie
Zedd,
I think you're right with regard to the black deaf man analogy you commented on previously, although in my experience and where I live, that hasn't always been the case. So, maybe our slight difference may be the result of location, more than anything else.
There's no need to apologize, either. I am what I am. You are what you are. We are who we are.
It's time that people start to realize that there are more people on this planet than just them, their families, their ethnic group, and nation. Just because I have a bad day doesn't mean I have to go and ruin someone else's bad day. Likewise, racism still occurs as do many other "ism's" (even "audism" which is the deaf culture's definition of hearing people discriminating against deaf people). To hold your case of suffering to be of a higher standard than other groups demeans and diminishes the difficulties or sufferings other groups might have and could create animosity and ther ill-feelings.
Additionally, one of the main problems the deaf community has is incompetence. Many people confuse ignorance with incompetency. In this case, many deaf people (especially where I live) are incompetent or unable to self-advocate for themselves; know how to find jobs; how to pursue post-secondary education and so on and so forth.
Maybe today, there's less ignorance and more incompetence in terms of people in general understanding the differences between people. It's easy to say someone is ignorant if they're racist, but wouldn't it be possible to say they were incompetent in terms of understanding other people not like them? Ignorance is such a hateful word.
If you look at most of the comments following this article, you can see plainly that most people disagree on several things. This implies an inability by people to see a different perspective and understand it sufficiently to garner any credible arguments by those who disagree with them. This means people are incompetently able to agree. That is not ignorance (though I would exclude the extremists at both ends because it may not be about incompetency or ignorance, but hatred.)
Quite possibly, maybe it's time to rethink the whole paradigm of slavery, ignorance, and racism in the US since the old constructs just don't seem to cut it anymore?
Just a random tangent.
As for the moniker - you've got a dirty mind!
:o)
Paotie
243 - Zedd
Clavos
sed: Sowell presents a very interesting and somewhat contrarian view of contemporary Black American culture, as well as unique looks at slavery and even discusses the Jews and Nazi Germany; all with a very fresh and thought-provoking point of view.
I will read it. THanks.
However no one will change my mind on the experience of African Americans. I LIVE IT. Its not something that I need to be made aware of or made to understand better. ITS MY LIFE. 99.9% of the time no one in any situation knows that I am not AA but me. All of my neighbors think I'm AA. I left SA and became AA (Black in the 70's).
AGAIN in the 70's and 80's Blacks and Mexicans lived together. I grew up with Mexicans. Clavos I'm in Texas. You are in Florida. Your "German" Mexican could not be German for six generations. That would mean that they married Germans only for six generations. I have a friend who claims to be of British and Spanish descent. She is Mestizo big time. Every Mexican that I know claims to be Spanish. They NEVER talk of their NA background. They may have the short squat legs of some NA groups and the features but they ALL claim to be Spanish. Its almost comical but more so sad. Again google pictures of Spaniards. They don't look like Mexicans. They don't. Sorry.
Now if you watched Spanish TV you would think that that was the case. They are all light complected and they don't look like the folks in the barrio.
Also I never said that All Mexicans were Mestizo or mixed. Why did you exaggerate what I said as if there is no record of it. I never get why people do that on this blog. Its always Conservatives. It must be the Rush influence.
BTW out of respect for people from India, I don't call Native Americans Indians. They are not. Another sign of disrespect by Europeans.
244 - Zedd
Paotie
My uncle whom I loved dearly was deaf. He lost his hearing in childhood and retained his ability to speak. He had a wonderful sense of humor and accommodated ignorance by making light of those who were cruel. Most people did not know he was deaf so people would get angry at him not knowing that he couldn't hear.
He was an electrician and customers would constantly try to cheat him. They misunderstood thinking his deafness was an indication of a mental disability. How silly.
He was a very handsome man. He died tragically. We think his disability has a lot to do with how he died. Its been a long time and I am still not over it. I loved him so much.
The key Paotie is to give people an opportunity to tell YOU how they feel and why they feel that way. Our point of views limit us. They detract from our ability to understand, no matter how much we think we can. When people hurt, Its wrong to lecture them about how they should hurt. Its wrong to tell them that it is enough. That is not our place.
As for apologizing... We cant regain our humanity if we don't acknowledge our short comings. I discovered my lacking and I had to acknowledge it. My insensitivity or lack of awareness does affect all people with disabilities. Not because I am doing anything evil or intentionally but by omission. By disregarding I am contributing to a lot of people's challenges. I do apologies for that.
I need to figure out a way to address that personally and also with my children. That is the only way our world gets better.
245 - Clavos
Zedd writes:
Every Mexican that I know claims to be Spanish. They NEVER talk of their NA background. They may have the short squat legs of some NA groups and the features but they ALL claim to be Spanish. Its almost comical but more so sad. Again google pictures of Spaniards. They don't look like Mexicans. They don't. Sorry.
You're right, of course. But you're speaking of Mexicans in this country (well, in Texas, anyway). Because of the prejudice they've encountered here in the US, they DO mostly claim not to be indigenas. They are really Mexican-Americans; no longer Mexican. I was speaking of real Mexicans; my countrymen. And not only Mexican-Americans do that; Guatemalans and most Central Americans do the same thing; but not at home, only if they live here.
And yes, the all-white Mexicans of European descent do tend NOT to intermarry with the Indigenas. My German-Mexican friend's ancestors came to Mexico in the 1830s (lots of Germans came to South Texas at that time, too--it was still Mexico at the time). Fredericksburg and New Braunfels are both still heavily German towns; the newspaper in New Braunfels is still named the "New Braunfels Zeitung." Parts of San Antonio are also still German.
But I digress.
There are plenty of people in Mexico who trace their Spanish heritage all the way back to the Conquista (now more than 500 years), and who have only married other Spaniards or Europeans throughout that time. I have lots of Mexican friends who are blond haired and blue eyed, and who have been Mexicans for generations. There are also many people who migrated to Mexico in the twentieth century, and who have now had two or three generations born there, most of whom also don't intermarry.
There are mestizos, of course, but they are far outnumbered by the pure blooded indigenas.
Also I never said that All Mexicans were Mestizo or mixed. Why did you exaggerate what I said as if there is no record of it.
Look back at my comment, Zedd. I never said you did; nor did I exaggerate anything you did say.
Oh, and BTW I don't listen to anything but satellite radio; I hate commercials. As far as I know, Rush isn't on Sirius.
246 - Blair
According to DNA analysis, Mexicans are typically 39 percent Native American, 59 percent Causasian and 3 percent African. Younger generations of Mexican-Americans are proud of their Native American ancestry, in fact, the trend is for them to reject their European ancestry since, in the United States, it's more fashionable to be among the "oppressed" than among the "oppressors." However, skin color remains important. Surveys show Mexican-Americans are more prejudiced toward African Americans than Anglos, the term used in the American Southwest for non-Hispanic whites, even the Irish. It's best not to mention tht 3 precent African ancestry.
Although I have blond hair and blue eyes, many of my Mexican-American friends, particularly the women, have lighter skin than I do; however, you seldom hear anyone claim they are of pure Spanish descent any longer. It probably wouldn't be true and people would take it as a racist remark. One of my best friends has blond hair, green eyes, and stands about half an inch under six feet.
Most of my friends are Mexican-Americans. (If you live in El Paso, most of your friends are going to be Mexican-Americans, unless you happen to be the type of person who doesn't have firends.) For the most part, they are second or third generation Americans. Most speak Spanish but are more fluent in English, which they speak with no accent. Like Anglos, their politics are tied to their pocketbooks. Many are staunchly anti-illegal immigrant while some thinks we should have closed the border behind them. Most are from middle- to upper-income familes. Mexican-Americans are more likley to employ maids than Anglos; I use to date Mexican-American women who had maids three days a week even though they were living in one-bedroom apartments; it's an addiction.
Race relations are exceptionally good in El Paso, but this might because there aren't enough Anglos and African Americans to make a difference. Oddly, El Paso prides itself on its "diversity," as if it will become 100-percent diverse once it becomes 100-percent Hispanic. As an Anglo, I have no sense of being a minority, but this might be because I'm older and no longer involved in the competition for jobs.
The primary debate in El Paso involves bilingual vs. English immersion instruction in the public schools. However, it's mostly Mexican-Amnerican parents arguing over which is best or which is worse.
247 - Dave Nalle
Clavos, you forgot all the German and Irish Mexicans, of which there are a hell of a lot.
Dave
248 - Clavos
You're right; though I did mention my German-Mexican friend.
Shame on me; I'm a half-Irish Mexican.
249 - G. Chell
Good old fashioned southern family values at work in :he story attached. Several instances to be precise...Strom Thurmond and Arch Conservative would be very proud indeed!!
250 - Blair
Many of El Paso's leading families are Lebanese Mexicans. We also have Syrian Mexicans. Their families spent and generation or two in Mexico before moving to the United States. We also have a Chinese Mexicans. Some of their ancestors dropped off in El Paso when the railroad was coming through. The familes of others were driven across the border by Pancho Villa during the Mexican Revolution.
251 - Lumpy
Chell is there any kind of bigotry u don't find personallly fulfilling?
252 - S.T.M
Dave wrote: "Clavos, you forgot all the German and Irish Mexicans, of which there are a hell of a lot."
Klaus Rodriguez and Pancho O'Reilly, two of the better-known ones. Klaus sells chorizo-flavoured bratwurst and Pancho has come up with a new drink that somehow blends tequila and Guiness. Both have made other huge cultural contributions to Mexican society, most notably the introduction to Mexico of kegeling, lederhosen and knee slapping in the case of Klaus, while Pancho runs classes on how to drink vast quantities of alcohol and then talk your way out of trouble after getting into a fight. Their contribution is immeasurable, really. However, sometimes people mistake Pancho for a Bavarian when he starts yodelling on the way home from the pub at 3am.
253 - Clavos
OMG, Stan!!!
Klaus and Pancho are two of my best drinking mates, the old bastards!
Years ago, Klaus used to try to pass himself off as an Aussie, but we weren't buying: he couldn't drink more than 3 or 4 liters of beer without passing out; he wouldn't survive a night in any decent pub in Sydney.
Pancho's a good bloke; until somebody mentions poms, that is. Then it's Katy bar the door, and wiser men get the hell out of the room.
83M Mexicans and you run into my two mates!
Small world!
254 - Blair
The Saint Patrick's Battalion (Batallón de San Patricio) was composed of several hundred Irishmen, Germans, and other European Catholics. The battalion deserted the U.S. Army and fought on the Mexican side during the Mexican-American War. We hung most of them.
255 - STM
See Blair, you have to watch out for the bloody Irish ... they'll tell you one thing and do another. That's why Aussies drink too much and hate authority. It's the Irish in us. But this also must be the only country in the world that's full of people of Irish background (about 40 per cent) and has a union jack in the corner of its flag and no one cares. We're having too much fun to worry about it. There's a lesson in that for everyone.
256 - STM
Clav: Lol. I must say I find it really bizarre that Mexico might be chock full of Germans and Irishmen. Imagine a mixture of Spanish and Irish blood. Scary stuff on any Friday night. I do know there are a lot of Irish (and Germans, for that matter, but that's another story) in Argentina and Uruguay, and you do sometimes hear of bizarre names like Francisco McKenna - freckle-skinned flaming redheads, all, of course. Wouldn't they all stand out like dog's balls in Latin America?
257 - Clavos
Stan:
Chile had a great patriot named Bernardo O'Higgins,
when I was a kid, the "Rupert Murdoch" of Mexico at that time was named Rómulo O'Farril, Jr., I had a teacher in grade school named Señorita O'Gorman, etc., etc.
Spanish-speaking Micks everywhere...
If you're interested, check this site out.
258 - STM
I notice on that first story on the website the O'Reillys of Yucatan score a big mention. Obviously, they are Pancho's forbears. Bloody Micks
259 - Blair
Mexican President Vincente Fox is half Irish. The San Patricio Battalion fought for Mexico because they viewed the Mexican-American War as a conflict beteen a Protestant nation(U.S.) and aCatholic (Mexico) nation.
I think we are getting a little off track.
260 - Clavos
Fox's first name is Vicente-no "n", and he's former Mexican President Vicente Fox.
And yes, we got way off track about three days ago...
261 - Zedd
Sure did Clav. But it was cool to read that you and Stan know the same people. What a world indeed.
262 - STM
No, Blair, we're not getting off track at all ... because I don't see a lot difference in any kind of discrimination, whether it is related to the descendants of black slaves in America, downtrodden Irish Catholics who felt the need to stand up to the yoke of anglo/scottish protestantism, or the prisoners transported for life in chains to a brutal penal colony in New South Wales often for doing nothing more than speaking their minds. Lots of people have had their crosses to bear ...
263 - Blair
The Irish came in two wave. The first wave, which began arriving in the mid-1700s, were Scots Irish Protestants from Northern Ireland. They didn't settle in cities on the eastern seaboard but crossed over the Appalachians and settled the South, Southwest and West. Since they didn't compete for jobs in the big eastern cities, they encountered no prejudice; they were to busy fighting Indians. Today, their descendants don't think of themselves as Irish; they think of the "Old Country" as being Tennessee and Kentucky.
The second wave of Irish, which began arriving in the late 1800s, were Irish Catholics who congregated in cities where they lowered wages by competing for jobs with White Anglo Saxon Protestants. They did suffer considerable discrimination, but it lasted less than a generation. They quickly became the majority in cities such as Boston. These are the people who celebrate Saint Patrick's Day.
264 - STM
Blair, I'm half Irish and live in Australia, where about 40 per cent of the entire population has some Irish background ... discrimination here went on for 100 years. Trust me, mild discrimination against Catholics still goes on today in some countries. Not here thankfully, but elsewhere it still happens. Still, it's nothing compared to what blacks have suffered in the US.
265 - What's the big deal?
An apology has nothing to do with blame.
An apology is needed because whites still continue to benefit from slavery after the fact, as blacks continue to suffer from some of the effects of 400 years of dehumanization.
Nobody is asking anybody to fix anything, just acknowledge your privilege. A white deaf person has a huge advantage, (I call it natural affirmative action) over a black deaf person.
Why is it so hard to acknowledge the hand-outs and hand up whites get just for existing?
Apologize already. It's not a big deal.
Talk about greedy and evil!
266 - Christopher Rose
Black on black slavery existed in Africa long before White people found their way there and carries on to this day. Maybe Black people should apologise to Whites for corrupting them in the first place...
267 - Joe Bo
Walt Williams is not for slavery reparations. He was being facetious, not to be taken seriously. You must be a stupid moron by taking him literally.
268 - blackvoice
wow well, to not get personal i would have to say that the way that you expessed yourself was very offending. But i must say u had some very good points. Yes it is time that we jus move on and we shouldnt really care for an apology but at the same time WHO ARE YOU to say get over it!? You never have to deal with the evryday mistreatment that african americans deal with, dont have to watch movies or learn about the history of your people being stole away from their homeland, raped beatin and misplaced like nothing. Your a very narrow minded person and ill hope you find the light but i strongly believe that you are jus ignorant to the situation
269 - JC
stupid article, really just a dumb seem to be written by someone who have too much time on their hands, find something productive to do, and yes i believe you should have saught reparation or at least an apology for the people who have wronged deaf people, you are a let down to the deaf community, so dont brag about it!
270 - Paotie
Reparations for Deaf people? For what?
:o)
Paotie
271 - YBW
You say its time for black people to get over slavery and i say yeah right. How could we just forget that our race was subjugated into slavery. How could we forget that our ancestors were Raped and Beaten and Sold(away from their families),hunted down like dogs, unable to even get an education. How could we forget that they said it was alright to sale a black man because he was not a whole man becasue it took two or three black men to equal one white man. How could we forget that their is still a law where i believe it is every 25 years that a document has to be signed so blacks are still allowed to vote. How could we forget when the government still allows the confederate flag to still fly. How could we forget when the racism is STILL so strong toward blacks(Jena 6, Shawn Bell, etc...). How could we forget when so manys whites claimed that slavery has never happened. How could we forget when we see how the government could apologize to the Jews for the Holocaust but not to the Blacks for Slavery. How Could we foget when this very country we live in was built on the Backs of Slavery.
272 - Franco
#271 " YBW
Anyone who would deny that slaver existed is insane, so pay them no mind.
Free you mind of anger, hate, and rage, and your ass will follow.
This is if you want to be free of these things.
Things that we cling to so hard, even unhealthy things, can become like friends to us and letting them go can make us feel empty and even miss them.
Find new friends to cling to. I kid you not, they are out there. As a man thinketh, so he is.