Why African-Americans should stop using slavery as a social crutch.
Syndicated columnist Walter E. Williams pouts and complains that calls for the Virginia legislation to issue decrees of apologies for slavery fall far short. In fact, he goes the extra mile and suggests that whites owe blacks something. He seems to suggest that each and every white person should resolve black problems in Virginia – as if blacks themselves are unable to do anything.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments176 - STM
Ruvy wrote: "Perhaps there was a huge Tupperware sale that caused them all to leave the Land of Israel?"
Sorry mate, I know this is serious stuff ... but it's a classic and you have sent me into a fit of the giggles with this one. I have asked a friend BTW to ask about the standing, silent prayer. I will get back to you because if all our Aussie Jews are saying prayers for rain every Sabbath, maybe the reason we haven't had any is that we've been given the answer: we don't need it yet.
177 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
By the way, Zedd, I didn't mean to skip over all of your questions. Those questions you raise and self examination that emerged therefrom have formed the corpus of Jewish literature and life for 2,300 years or more, from the Septuagint (the translation into Greek of the Torah which had many "errors" which were in essence "apologia" to the Jew-hating Greeks) to the histories of Josephus, who even though he was a traitor to the rebellion in Judaea, provided the world with much history of the era (along with many "apologies" to the Jew-hating Romans), to Philo, a Jewish philosopher who lived 1,900 years ago.
But in the end, by living here in our own home, we do not any longer have to apologize or make excuses to you any longer. If Blair's notes on the average IQ of Jews are true (it's flattering to read, but flattery is not necessarily truth), we can get along quite nicely without any of you.
It takes thought, but Jews can think - I think.
178 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Stan,
About the Amidá. This standing prayer asks for G-d to raise the wind and cause the rain to fall during winter, and asks G-d to provide a blessing of dew on the land the rest of the year. It is not said every Sabbath but three times daily, seven days a week.
Generally, as I understand it, the kavaná (intent) of the prayer is to focus on bringing Jews home from exile and to provide THIS land with sufficient rain and dew to support the population (among a whole lot of other things). But a Jew praying in Sydney may see things differently, especially if the rates for water have gone way up.
The query I tossed your way is, "do Jews in Australia pray for rain and wind according to the seasons in the southern hemisphere, or according to the seasons in Israel?" I am guessing that some of the "liberal" Jewish congregations and most of the "reform" ones will adjust the seasons to fit the southern hemisphere, while "orthodox" normative Jewish congregations will not.
179 - ez
There is an ayat in the quran that admonishes the Jews for taking the revealed word of G-d and exposing part of word while withholding other parts of the word. In the revealed word of G-d is power due to the fact that Knowledge never known to the world is revealed. According to scriptures the Jewish people have recieved many prophets and messengers,G-d used the Jews to bring knowledge not known into the world. If some of the world of G-d was revealed while other parts are hidden by the ones through whom the word was revealed, would not that people have an advantage by the mere fact that they have wisdom that the world does not have? What is the source of the great wisdom and creativity that have afforded Jewish(not all) people to be at or near the top of nearly every human endeavor? Science, Mathematics, medicine,literature, research, economics and finance etc. Jewish people have been at the forefront of all these fields of study. Are they naturally gifted that they are about 2% of the population however, comprise 40-50% of the Forbes top 400 approx 25-30% of the noble prize recipients? To paraphase Minister Farrakhan "How did they get to be that deep? What is the source of knowledge? Are the Blacks and the Jews polar opposites as it relates to scholarly endeavors? What is the source of the Blacks(not all) seemingly lack of this requisite knowledge? Was the knowledge available and the Blacks (American) could not grasp it? Was the knowledge hidden from them? If the was hidden in what manner was it hidden?
180 - Zedd
Ruvy
So you are saying its because you are superior to everyone intellectually and everyone is jealous?
Also, why the unwarranted insults? I was not asking for an apologist response. I was asking a legitimate question. If one group is being attacked for thousands of years, everywhere they go, one would have to ask, WHY. At least I would. Heck if it happened once, I would ask....
181 - Zedd
Dave
My point is that slavery is as much history as the civil war. Why should we get over slavery and not the civil war?
Its weird.
What is being requested is "don't remind us of the unpleasantness of what AAs experienced at the hand of Whites because we are used to Whites being portrayed as superior in history in relation to other people. This shortcoming goes against what we want to believe about ourselves."
182 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Zedd,
"So you are saying its because you are superior to everyone intellectually and everyone is jealous?"
Intellectually superior to everybody? Me make such an assertion? No. I see too many dumb shlimazels here in Israel to say such a thing.
"A great deal of hatred at Jews is jealousy. Jews had to depend on their wits to survive the long centuries of persecution. As a result of natural selection, Jewish IQ increased. Today, European, or Ashkenazi Jews, score an average of 15 points above average on IQ tests, the highest of any racial or ethnic group. Three standard deviations above normal might not seem like much, but the real impact is in the higher IQ ranges. Twenty-three out of every 1,000 European Jews have IQs above 140 compared to one in 1,000 among other populations. This explains their extraordinary contributions to science, medicine and the arts."
This is from comment #170, posted TO me, but from Blair. It's flattering to read, but flattery is not necessarily truth. Blair has an interesting theory and he has anecdotal proof to back it up (i.e. the number of Jewish Nobel Prize winners versus the percentage of Jews in the world's population) but I would not make assertions like these.
183 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
"I was asking a legitimate question. If one group is being attacked for thousands of years, everywhere they go, one would have to ask, WHY. At least I would. Heck if it happened once, I would ask...."
You asked a legitimate question (comment #168)- and you received a legitimate answer (comment #177).
184 - Zedd
Ruvy
So the conclusion is Jews are highly blessed and highly coursed. They have bin privi to the worlds best and have also had bad things happen to them.
We know that IQ is not hereditary but achievement is, because of social environment. Therefore Jews have had positive social environments which have rendered their success over history. The notion that there has been constant attacks against Jews could not be true. For instance when we look at the current situation, Jews live well and project their culture through media vehemently. Almost every sitcom has someone who is Jewish and their Jewishness is mentioned including their customs (often taking for granted that the rest of the population understands the rituals). Also in many people's eyes Israel is the aggressor or the oppressor in this time in history, to the Palestinians. They are the most powerful force in the region and use their power to subjugate their neighbors. Comparatively speaking, they live quite well.
Yet the woe's and sorrows of the people are something that the rest of the world is constantly being made aware of.
There is a deep pain that resides because your suffering is not being fully acknowledged. Ruvy that pain is what AAs live with. What is more compounding is that the wrong was done in the country that they help build. While they continue to flourish and have made amazing strides, they are continuously chided, criticized and judged by people who have not walked their walk, people who are new to this country.
Why they should get over their own history is strange, especially when the rest of the country has not gotten over it.
Note: Africa is a huge continent (3.5x the size of America) I am a South African born immigrant. Lets be specific when discussing this continent. While you live in the Middle East, it is more apropos to say you live in Israel. Saying I'm from Italy is much more specific than saying I am from Europe. That only works when you are Australian.
185 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Zedd,
It is evident that what little you know about us comes from the media - and the media is a funny mirror.
I've known and worked with American blacks in person in various capacities. Yet there is much I do not know about them. But I do not expect them to apologize to me for who or what they are, and the tenor of all your comments about Jews shows that you expect us to apologize for who and what we are.
So what you have picked up in the funny mirror about us is that we need to apologize to you, but that you do not need to apologize to anyone.
Sorry, it does not work that way.
I don't expect you to attempt to learn more about us. But I have no apologies to make. As I've said before, when I see you defend Arab terrorists who seek to kill my people, I have to wonder who it is who needs to learn her history, and who it is who has forgotten it.
186 - troll
Zedd says - *We know that IQ is not hereditary but achievement is, because of social environment. Therefore Jews have had positive social environments which have rendered their success over history. The notion that there has been constant attacks against Jews could not be true.*
the structure of this 'proof' is an example of why I hold the opinion that social science ain't very scientific
187 - Zedd
Troll
What are YOU talking about. What proof are you on about now? That made no sense.
Ruvy
I am not asking for an apology about anything. How did you jump to that conclusion. Its just as easy to see the positive as it is the negative Ruvy. Try it sometimes it will reduce a lot of you unnecessary stress. Some how its as if when you zero in on a negative it makes you more legitimate. I was not AT ALL saying what you think (or wish) I was saying.
How about living the rest of your life assuming good instead of bad. You could end up enjoying yourself legitimately as opposed to enjoying tragedy and oppression as you seem to based on your posts.
I was simply saying, you can understand why Blacks feel badly about their history. I mentioned NOTHING about Jews doing anything for or to Black people. You just looked for a smattering of an attack and jumped at it like a kid on candy.
Be kind Ruvy. The purpose of religion is not to make you a know it all but to enhance YOU as a person, to make you a better person. You know a lot about your religion yet you are a paranoid and mean person. Whats the point?
I know that you are going to veer off into defense mode and start the personal attacks as usual, then claim anti semitism. Lets say not and say we did. Skip all of the inevitable drama and redirect the conversation BACK to AAs if you can manage.
Abraham must have been a self obsessed drama queen. Its a miracle that the Middle East is still standing! geeeeeez DRAMA!!
188 - G. Chell
"Do you have some sort of strange prejudice against people who want to preserve and experience history?"
Going by your rationale I could argue that I very well know from this article that there are some people who have a strange prejudice against people who want to preserve and remember history and demand reparations and apologies.
189 - S.T.M
Ruvy wrote: "But a Jew praying in Sydney may see things differently, especially if the rates for water have gone way up."
LOL. Mate, you are fair dinkum cracking me up today. On a serious note though, I suspect you are right about the reform and orthodox congregations. My friends are eastern european but would certainly not be described as orthodox, although they are devout without being too devout, if you know what I mean. We do have to do things for them on the Sabbath though, on occasion. They are in the process of asking the local rabbi this question, so we'll see what's going on. I did mention it was the Amida. I asked whether it applied to Australia. You and Zedd are having some fun today, BTW ...
190 - S.T.M
Zedd ... I can tell you with certainty why Jews have been discriminated against - that's not really a strong enough word, either, is it ... let's face it. It's because they are different. Some people are frightened and threatened by people, places and things that are different. And yet, the two largest religions on this planet spring from the original monotheistic belief of Judaism. For all those who don't know, BTW, there is a very good reason why Jews are good with money, and why they have traditionally been lenders or dealt in such things as gold and jewellery. They had to. With no land of their own to grow crops or breed animals, disposessed and spread across Europe, persecuted and kept on the move, they needed other ways to make enough to feed their families. Having sharp business acumen was one way to stay ahead of the game.
191 - Zedd
STM
How are they different?
192 - Nancy
Zedd, sorry I was away so long. What 'horrors' are you referring to that have NOT been covered in AA history taught in schools? No - they don't go into the nasty stuff in the lower grades, but they do in the upper ones. Kids read Fred Douglass' autobio & if that isn't pretty graphic don't know what is. Ditto Sojourner Truth - -the passage in the beginning of those two old people being 'freed' by their pennypinching white owners so they don't have to feed them now they're "useless" had me crying for weeks & I STILL hope whenever I think of it that they (the owners) went straight to Hell for all eternity for that. A lot of the literature is also pretty grim & leaves little or nothing to the imagination. So what are you talking about specifically? Rape? It's covered. Beatings? That's covered. Families being torn apart? Ditto. The humiliation of being sold like a cow or a pig? That's covered. I don't know what else there is that has been skipped over, & frankly I don't think anyone can 'know' the horrors unless they are personally experienced, which is impossible these days for most of us, thank God.
Ruvy & STM, I got a laugh out of the Tupperware thing, too! Some of us have such nice senses of humor, which is a relief considering those that don't.
193 - Blair
"I realize you are only trying to "set the record straight" as it were, but you need to ask how and why did those Jews get to Europe in the first place?"
Jews got to Europe the same way everyone else got to Europe. Modern humans migrated out of Africa to the Near East about 50,000 years ago. We are all descendants of a small group of about 150 people. From the Near East, they spread out to populate all the continents, where they developed racial characteristics in continental isolation.
The founders of Jewish communities in Eastern Europe were probably single males, most likely traders who married Eastern European women and settled down. Once the population grew large enough, they primarily married within their own group. Today, about 40 percent of European Jews have male chromosomes that reveals Eastern Mediterranean descents, but they all have female chromosome that are distinctly Eastern European.
We know that IQ is not hereditary but achievement is, because of social environment. Therefore Jews have had positive social environments which have rendered their success over history. The notion that there has been constant attacks against Jews could not be true.
We know that IQ is hereditary. Identical twins separated at birth and raised in different socio-economic circumstances will have near identical IQs and obtain about the same degree of success in their careers. The human genome has only been mapped since 2003, but DNA analysis strongly supports the argument that IQs are genetically shaped. Although every racial group produces individuals who score at the very highest levels, the distribution from the left to right side of the bell curve appears to be uneven between racial groups. Since the data cannot be challenged, some groups say IQ tests are racially biased or don’t really measure IQ. To believe that IQ tests are racially biased, you have to believe they are biased in favor of Jews and Asian Americans, who outscore all other racial and ethnic groups. You also have to ignore studies that show a direct correlation between IQ and economic and social status. African Americans with high IQs do better in life than African Americans with low IQ. There is nothing about IQ tests that justifies estimating an individual’s intelligence base on his or her race. Statistical results apply only to large groups.
Hostile environments force people and population groups to adapt. One way groups facing hostile environments adapt is by development increased cognitive abilities. This is how modern humans overcame the more powerfully built Neanderthals and survived the ice age. This is what is meant by “natural selection.” Recent DNA evidence shows that genetic changes occur more rapidly than originally thought. Under constant attack for centuries, the Jews developed higher cognitive skills through natural selection
194 - Zedd
Nancy
Ask your kids or grands what they know about what happened to Africans from the middle passage on. That will answer your question.
I have school aged kids. Its not covered. Heck I went to school. It was a joke. They showed one of those over acted slave portrayals that had everyone laughing, Black and White. Harriet Tubman was a popular one. You'd see just eyes in the dark and everyone acting more scared than any human being known in history would be, talking about "crossin da riva jowdin". What a crock. If that doesn't enhance White Supremacy what doesn't?
In university, as you know, I studied Sociology, JUNK!... When it came to African Americans. I would have to stop the instructor to make basic clarifications. There were ridiculous blanket statements about Blacks being taught to future social scientists. Had a Black person not been there, that misinformation would have prevailed. No one would have known that THEY DON'T KNOW. They would have been like you, insisting that they have been taught, WELL!
I told one of my professors years after graduating when I ran into her at the mall, that I questioned whether I got educated. She understood my delima because of some issues that existed regarding issues relating to women, in the department.
The only real information that I got was from an African American literature class. It was taught by a lovely Jewish women who wanted to delve. I still love her! Off course the class was full of African Americans. We had only two White students who looked uncomfortable the entire time but they stuck it through. The only other anomalies were myself and a Haitian born gay guy. We and another young lady were the most inquisitive. The other Black students were almost afraid to get deeper. They tended to go with the cliches and the instructor would pull and pull more substance.
I had a Native American Lit class that was incredible as well. I still read some of those authors.
BTW I found the humor in Ruvy's statement. I don't know if you were referring to me with that comment. However we were in another discussion and I was focusing on that. He was commenting to Stan if I remember.
Besides the topic is that African Americans should get over slavery. I'm not feeling jovial in this thread. Perhaps more education would help to illuminate that perspective.
195 - ez
In a nutshell the only thing in the mainstream that comes close to depicting what has happened to the Blacks born into slavery by way their kidnapped ancestors occurred inadvertently by way of the film the passion of the christ. I am not making light of theme of that film however, if one were to paint that jesus in the film black and imagining that what happened to Jesus happened to an entire nation of people then you would have come close to the type of beatings the slaves endured. The raping of the slave women was legal if the perpetrator was a white male. The forced emasculation of the male slaves were done in front of the women, children and other male slaves to produce the fear of G-d in the slave for the slavemaster. It was not uncommon for white males to have the severed penises of black males in their possession for trophies citing that the protection of the white female was rationale for the deeds done. Everything of evil that the whites could imagine was carried out on their dehumanized subjects. One only has to look at the type torture that was admitted to by the cop that sodomized the blackman in jail in NYC. The act committed by the police was illegal but it was in the heart of the men to commit such acts in the present, prior to the civil rights era and beyond the whitemen possessed the same mind and heart of the cop in NYC and it was perfectly legal(or no fear of prosecution)to commit any evil imagined. America by way of it's constitution and subsequent rulings(see Scott vs.Sanford) elevated the status of any white above all blacks without regard to status garanteeing all whites that the blacks had no rights that were duty bound to respect. The true evil that existed in the founding of America has never been studied in school or any history book printed by children of the slavemasters. The history books in today's school answers the question of chattel slavery in terms akin to "babies being delivered by the stork."
196 - Blair
To Zed:
I grew up in Texas. While there are some townships still regarded as hostile to blacks, it's primary a case of whites fearing to enter black areas. As a rule blacks feel safer in white areas of town than they do in black areas. Most violence is race on race, but interracial violence is most directed against white, although most of this is not cagtegorized as hate crimes because the motive is often robbery.
197 - Blair
I realize you are only trying to "set the record straight" as it were, but you need to ask how and why did those Jews get to Europe in the first place?
Jews got to Europe the same way everyone else got to Europe. Modern humans migrated out of Africa to the Near East about 50,000 years ago. We are all descendants of a small group of about 150 people. From the Near East, they spread out to populate all the continents. The founders of Jewish communities in Eastern Europe were probably single males, most likely traders who married Eastern European women and settled down. Once the population grew large enough, they primarily married within their own group. Today, about 40 percent of European Jews have male chromosomes that reveals Eastern Mediterranean descents, but they all have female chromosome that are distinctly Eastern European.
We know that IQ is not hereditary but achievement is, because of social environment. Therefore Jews have had positive social environments which have rendered their success over history. The notion that there has been constant attacks against Jews could not be true.
We know that IQ is hereditary. Identical twins separated at birth and raised in different socio-economic circumstances will have near identical IQs and obtain about the same degree of success in their careers. The human genome has only been mapped since 2003, but DNA analysis strongly supports the argument that IQs are genetically shaped. Although every racial group produces individuals who score at the very highest levels, the distribution from the left to right side of the bell curve appears to be uneven between racial groups. Since the data cannot be challenged, some groups say IQ tests are racially biased or don’t really measure IQ. To believe that IQ tests are racially biased, you have to believe they are biased in favor of Jews and Asian Americans, who outscore all other racial and ethnic groups. You also have to ignore studies that show a direct correlation between IQ and economic and social status. African Americans with high IQs do better in life than African Americans with low IQ. There is nothing about IQ tests that justifies estimating an individual’s intelligence base on his or her race. Statistical results apply only to large groups.
Hostile environments force people and population groups to adapt. One way groups facing hostile environments adapt is by development increased cognitive abilities. This is how modern humans overcame the more powerfully built Neanderthals and survived the ice age. This is what is meant by “natural selection.” Recent DNA evidence shows that genetic changes occur more rapidly than originally thought. Under constant attack for centuries, the Jews developed higher cognitive skills through natural selection.
198 - ez
Reference the book WITHOUT SANCTUARY A HISTORY OF LYNCHING IN AMERICA for info regarding the severed penis. Also by painting Jesus in the movie THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST black one can very well see how Jesus could have been killed by the people he came to teach. By a simply change in color the beating of Jesus would not invoke sympathy/empathy with the whites instead the cries would be "Kill the nigger beat the nigger I he has done something wrong" If that is not the truth ask how does America react to a policeman shooting an unarmed blackman in the back multiple times? Yeah "He must have done something"
199 - Zedd
Blair
The facts:
A large number of the study of twins reared apart was undertaken by Thomas Bouchard of the University of Minnesota starting in 1979. He “collected” pairs of separated twins from all over the world and reunited them while testing their personalities and IQs. Other studies at the same time concentrated on comparing the IQs of adopted people with those of their adopted parents and their biological parents or their siblings. Put all these studies together, which include the IQ tests of tens of thousands of individuals, and the table looks like this:
Same person tested twice 87%
Identical twins reared together 86%
Identical twins reared apart 76%
Fraternal twins reared together 55%
Biological siblings reared together 47% (studies show that reared apart about 24%)
Parents and children living together 40%
Parents and children living apart 31%
Adopted children living together 0%
Unrelated people living apart 0%
Twins are basically the same person genetically. Not sure why that would be a surprise.
After World War I, careful reanalysis of the mass of intelligence test data took place. This began to challenge the commonly held view that intelligence was directly, genetically linked to racial differences:
e.g. blacks from Illinois had higher IQ scores than whites from 9 southern states - a finding difficult to reconcile with the simple idea that whites are intellectually superior to blacks.
Evidence now seemed to support a closer link between social class and intelligence, rather than race and intelligence. As a result, a number of psychologists in the 1920s and 1930s shifted their position towards the environmental camp.
The shift against 'nature' views was given momentum by the backlash against the social consequences of government policies:
e.g. sterilization laws had been passed in 24 US States, resulting in 20, 000 people being sterilized against their will. 320, 000 people suffered the same fate in Germany.
200 - Zedd
Blair
How many Whites get injured in Black areas. The topic that we are engaged in is not White paranoia. Its why Blacks should get over slavery. If White fear is unfounded, I don't know why its an issue unless you are supporting the view that Blacks are villainized unnecessarily in our society and those idea affect their economics. This is a legacy of our evil PAST.
Also, try someone else with your pseudo genetic science. The minute you quote the Bell Curve you loose respectability on many legitimate circles. Next you'll be telling me that you are a survivalist. It goes in hand with the rest of the kookdum.
201 - Zedd
Blair are you Black?
202 - blair
Environment plays a role in human development but so does genetics. If we did ever succeed in making the social status playing field level, then IQ would become an even more important factor than it is today.
Personnel initiative and effort makes a difference, but higher IQ is positively correlated to personnel initiative, ambition and social, rather than antisocial, behavior. Prison populations score lower on IQ tests than the general population. (This may be because higher IQ types are better able to caculate the chances of their being caught.)
The notion that race doesn't exist but is a social construct was first advanced decades ago in medical journals by doctors who hoped to disuade their colleagues from exploring bioligcal or race-based medicine. They feared, not without cause, that racists would use the results of research into genetic-based diseases to advanced racists agendas. Nevertheless, genetic research has produced and will continue to produce significant advances in medical treatment. We now know, for example, why some drugs work for whites but not for blacks and why some drugs work for blacks but not whites. We now know which genes make some races more vulnerable to specific diseases are uniquely vulernable to certain diseases and how these genes work. For example, we know the gene that causes sickle cell anemia also gives African Americans a partial immunity to malaria. This gene would likely disappear if we were able to erradicate malaria.
As research informed by DNA analysis tracks down the genes that cause mental illnesses or brain disorder, we are highly likely to identify genes that control cognitive functions. Most like it will be genes that control meuron connectivity within the brain. We are almost certain to discover that genes control virtually everything, sexual behavior, ituitive thinking, quality of memory, physical abilities, etc.(They appear to control everything else, so what not cognitive ability?) We know that genes produce physical differences in races. People get fired when they suggest that black athletes dominate certain sports--the ones that count--due to a combination of effort and genetic advantages, but that's what most black and most white athletes think. Basketball players with leaping ability are said to have "White Man's Disease." (Being good at sports, by the way, doesn't make you dumb.) If you don't think different races and ethnic groups have genetical tendencies that make them better or worse at certain sports, ask youself why the NBA has so few pgymies. Do you think it's due to prejudice?
The authors of the Bell Curve devoted only a tiny fraction of their book to differences among races. The bulk of their work enjoys amost universal exceptance. For example, the data shows gender impacts IQ. Women are more evenly distributed throughout the bell curve. There are more men at the extreme high end than women, but there are also more men below the median IQ than women. In other words, the average woman is smarter than the average man. This might explain why college campuses now have more women than men. This conclusion was generally well received becuase it is politically correct. The author's conclusion that races are unevenly distributed throughout the bell curve is not politically correct; therefore, critics say the authors must be racists and their work can be ignored.
Of course, no one ignores the bell curve; they only pretend too. Public schools systems across the country employ diagnosticians to test student IQs. These tests determines which kids got to advanced programs and which go to slow learner classes. College entrance exams are indicators of IQ. Students who require an affirmative action assist to make it into elite colleges like Harvard or Yale or, nevertheless, much brighter than average high school students. The military administers "aptitude tests" to recruits before placing them in military occupational specialites.
As work continues to increase in specialization and complexity, a cognitive elite is emerging. Bright women marry bright men and together they produce children with higher than average IQs. Despite decades of affirmative action and social programs, the pay gap continues to widen, not only between races but between white and blue collar workers of all races.
The authors of the Bell Curve point out that people with average IQ perform vital work and make significant contributions to society. For example, network anchors make millions of years, but which would you perfer to do without, the anchor people or the people who keep your water and serwer systems working. The authors suggest a tiered system of compensation in which the people in the upper tiers make more money but not that much more money than people in the lower tiers would be fairer, but tinkering with the economy tends to produce disasterous results. However, if we ignored the evidence of genetic research, we will continue to spend enormous amounts of money and energy on social initiatives that won't work.
203 - Zedd
Blair
Are you Black???
204 - Zedd
Blair
On the IQ thing, maybe. More than likely determination and hard work will play a larger role, all things being equal. I am surrounded by highly intelligent people. While my IQ is considered high, I pay no attention to such nonsense. I know my gubber moments.... My daughter is bizarrely intelligent and I have friends who are scientists and are weird smart. All of these individuals don't function well in the real world. My beloved child is like a 6yr old socially. She is no where near six. My friends are just weird (which I love). The last incident was when I went for coffee with a friend and his shirt was CLEARLY inside out. Clueless!! He looses his phone regularly. I love him though.
My other child who has learned how to make As from my tutor-ledge and her winning personality is quite adaptive. If you spoke with her you would think that she was an airhead. She gets very little and cares very little about anything cerebral but she is highly goal oriented and has figured out that she didn't want to be he dumb cousin any more so she buckled down. She follows directions well (unlike all of the nerds in the family). She makes things happen. All I have to do is tell her once and she's figured out how and when something is going to be done. She now makes straight As because she takes advice and follows directions. My genius though is a HANDFUL!! Her grades are good but not as good. She looses her work constantly or gets bored and doesn't do it....help. I explained to my cheerleader child that she has every tool to make good grades. She is capable, she has a smart mom who will help her with anything and she has the resources. She bought into it and ran with it! In my mind she is highly intellegent because she is the most adaptable.
Intellect is relative. Adaptability is paramount.
"When" social conditions become equal, the attractive, slightly smart, adaptable and agressive people will win out.
205 - sr
Just curious. Were do most of you find the time to comment on BC. I look at the dates and time and think this is your life. Correct me if im wrong. Im retired and spend many hours upgrading my archery, rifle and pistol skills. Also go fishing. This works for me and I have no intentions of being negative toward you. Im just curious. Take a walk into the woods. It does wonders for you.
206 - STM
Zedd: "How are they different?"
The same way Muslims and Christians are different. That was the key issue in the persecution of Jews, their difference. And it's carried over into the modern age. Perhaps today it's more subtle, but it's still there. Ruvy can tell you with far more authority. I'm just basing it on my own observations of what goes on ... he grew up in the US.
207 - Zedd
Blair
Your examples to support that race is not a social construct prove just the opposite. You know that the adaptability of a people comes from social situations. Race comes from experiences over time. It is not created by God from the creation of mankind (if you subscribe to creationism). We also know that there are a number of variations that blur a lot of racial lines. For instance, most African Americans are African (Bantu), European and Asian in genetic structure. The modern Bantu also posses differences. Some of which are not explored because of the tendency to lump all Black Africans in one pot. South Africans don't have sickle celled anemia. We don't deal with Malaria. We also are mixed with the San and Namba populations so we are shorter in stature and lighter in complexion than a lot of other groups. Modern Ethiopians are also mixed with Northern populations. Egyptians possess the most varied traits.... You get the point. Race is a construct. All of these individuals would be considered Black but what does that mean? What applies to a Senegalese will more likely not completely apply to me or an Ethiopian but may apply to an African American if one of his ancestors was from that part of Africa. Oprah for instance has NO White blood but has African and Native American (Asian) blood. While her half sister may very well have European ancestry. They are both considered to be Black.
So the moral of this lengthy tale is that GENETICS are significant but race is a construct.
208 - Zedd
STM
Many got tired of the abuse and went back to their homeland where they wouldn't be abused and mistreated.
America is home for African AMERICANS. They were concieved on this land. They are genetically African but also possess European and Native American blood. Since they have no where to go, it only stands that they should expect their home to face its evil deads against them so that they and the rest of the country can move on.
The British are actually celebrating the 200th abolition of the slave trade in two days. Even though off course there is still human trafficing in Britain (4000 known) but the highlighting of this day says something. It says they have grown and they are open to moving on and being better.
209 - STM
I agree that Americans of all races and creeds need to move on from this. It's 2007, and African Americans truly are part of the very fabric and landscape of the modern United States - they are as American as apple pie and the founding fathers. IMO, the US would a sorrier place without the African-American community. A bit like that white tribe of Africa (the ones we have spoken about before) ... they belong over there too now, simply because that is how it is, despite all their awful transgressions. I'm still a supporter of Mandela's pragamatic and almost above-human ideas of inclusion and forgiveness, however. Perhaps we can all learn from him. I wish ....
210 - shikad
What I see in all these arguments is a distinct lack of sensitivity. There is also an abject lack of proper understanding of historical ramifications on society's current thoughts; a point which few appear to recognize. Black people have been historically constructed in such a fashion as to leave both criticism and compassion regarded as equally excessive. This should be at the forefront of our minds when we form our views relating to the problems which affect the Black community: there is no help in disregarding reality, similarly there is hope in accepting the ills.
211 - Lumpy
SR. I blog from work when I stay after hours to do boring shit they load on me because I have no social life to speak of.
One note on this subject. Do you people realize that slavery is alive and well in the modern world and that its victims are mostly white women, and that the people buying and selling the slaves are still those same moslems (or their descendents anyway) who sold blacks 300 years ago?
212 - Zedd
STM
I agree with everything that you have said. Even about the Boers. I think they are distinctively South African and they do belong there. They are part of us, and us them.
What helped everyone to accept the rainbow nation idea in SA was the truth and reconciliation that you have mentioned before. The US is a totally different animal. Remember Stan I know both places and I know both styles of racism. America is infested with this illness that permeates deeply. Until the race issue is dealt with, many ridiculous actions will come from this country because denial rules in this great land.
There are many wonderful things about this country, no doubt. However the light weight aspect of Americans that I often speak of and am always right btw when spotting a non American (I spotted you right off), comes from a long history of denial and skimming over unpleasantness. The pretense which washes over every real thing causes this nation to be ever reliant on emotional pick me ups in order to function (hence the weird over patriotism). The ever present self congratulation also comes from escaping reality.
I find it interesting that people have the nerve to lecture a people on how to deal with their own personal history. Stan who would any one be to actually tell you how to deal with who you are; how you and your people were conceived? Its quite nervy wouldn't you say? Especially when we all know that those people actually benefit TODAY from your people's misfortune over the years and even now. I don't think that White Americans realise just how much their Whiteness buys them in society. I don't think that most people realise that without the evil history and if all people were equal today that many of them wouldn't have the jobs that they have, especially White males.
Its a fact in America.
213 - Zedd
sr
I am getting over an annoying illness. Nothing life threatening, not any more, I hope but when I am particularly uncomfortable, I get on BC to distract myself and exercise my little brain.
Thanks to technology I get some work done at home with the lap top. The house is clean but not as it usually is :o)
214 - STM
Zedd wrote: "I find it interesting that people have the nerve to lecture a people on how to deal with their own personal history. Stan who would any one be to actually tell you how to deal with who you are; how you and your people were conceived?"
It probably wouldn't bother me that much, but also, who's lecturing, Zedd? ... I'm offering an opinion, that's all. I think the main thing I offered was that African Americans are as American as apple pie, and had they not been part of the fabric of American society (despite the way they got there and how they were treated and still are), the US would have been a sorrier place. Don't see how that's too controversial. But as you know, I'm a great believer in the twin delights of inclusion and forgiveness, which I reckon are a really good place to start in the process of righting the wrongs of ANY past. Basically, somewhere along the line, someone has to bury the hatchet, and it's always better if it's not buried in someone else's forehead. And my point about Mandela: If South Africans can begin burying the hatchet, anyone can do it.
If that's a lecture, I'll need to redefine my views on a lot of other things.
215 - STM
Sorry Zedd, I take my (slightly) smart-arse, defensive tone back ... I just realised you weren't giving me a bollocking at all and that the comments were directed at others. I can ONLY offer opinions though, anyway, as I don't live in the US. But I have spent a bit of time in California, and it seemed to me to that real inroads were being made with this stuff (perhaps not so much in LA) as far back as the early 80s. Like Martin Luther King, I have a dream too ... that one day, everyone on this bloody planet will be treated equally and we'll all get along.
216 - Zedd
In Texas, a While male who killed a man got probation and has been stopped by the police numerous times for cocaine possession.
A Black man in Texas who had been on parole for robbing someone of their $2 (shameful and weird) got caught for smoking a joint and has been in jail for 17yrs.
How can we forget.
217 - Zedd
That's, a White male.....
218 - Zedd
STM
No biggy. I couldn't be upset at you even if i wanted to.
219 - STM
Well, that is a disgrace if it's true. I don't fully understand the three-strikes law but it does seem barbaric, as does the wholesale trying of people under the age of 18 as adults. I realise there are some nasty teenagers out there, but I'd baulk at regularly locking up 13-16 year olds in adult jails. Surely there must be a cut off point where we can say that there still might be some hope. And jail should be the state's last resort, not its first.
220 - STM
HDC wrote in #14: "Even though deafness is what unites (most) in the Deaf community race/ethnicity is still what separates them."
Lol. Not sure about that one ... this brings back some memories ... I used to play in a rugby competition that had a deaf/hearing-impaired (legally deaf) side (they had quite a few black players, too - as did we). Sadly for us, the Deaf team wasn't blind as well, although at the full-time whistle, our coach suggested we might have been after they'd smacked us all over the park and run up a pretty lopsided scoreline.
We knew we were in trouble as we ran on and noticed they all had matching socks. Then we spotted their five-eight (the quarter back equivalent): a Hollywood movie look-a-like who was too good looking for a footballer, which also meant he was probably very quick and hadn't been tackled much. He was a black bloke, stone deaf and played solely on sight and instinct in general play, and he ripped us to shreds.
It would have been nice to have been deaf (for a few moments) as the coach delivered an apoplectic, paint-blistering tirade in the sheds afterwards: "Those blokes are bloody deaf ... and you're all fu.kin' blind, you useless bunch of bastards."
221 - Paotie
People -
Couple quick things:
222 - Paotie
Well, there goes that.
I've been banned from commenting anything with substance.
Good job, Mr. Rose.
223 - troll
(Paotie - the spam filter behaves like a petulant child...your posts will show up when CR wakes up)
224 - Zedd
Paotie
That was REALLY short.
225 - G. Chell
"And my point about Mandela: If South Africans can begin burying the hatchet, anyone can do it."
A white South Afrian woman who once declared that she would never touch a non-white skin married a non-white person and settled in Singapore. Granted he was a rich Chinese...but that is a change...