Why African-Americans should stop using slavery as a social crutch.
Syndicated columnist Walter E. Williams pouts and complains that calls for the Virginia legislation to issue decrees of apologies for slavery fall far short. In fact, he goes the extra mile and suggests that whites owe blacks something. He seems to suggest that each and every white person should resolve black problems in Virginia – as if blacks themselves are unable to do anything.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - G. Chell
why do you advocate getting rid of museums and our history? shouldn't we remember the things we have done?
Comment: Just like you have the right to do it, the blacks have the right to demand apologies, whine and cry, throw tantrums and do everything else on God's earth from opening a museum on slavery and Jim Crow segregation to demand reparations...does not mean whites have to listen. But, blacks have as much rights to demand apology slavery as much as whites have the right to remember about the Lost Cause...both are part of American history....the Lost Cause and Slavery.
27 - Dave Nalle
An interesting article, but you might have wanted to READ Williams' article before responding to it, since you've totally mischaracterized it.
I knew something was wrong when I read your first sentence, since Williams is on record as having been one of the most outspoken black opponents of slavery apologies and reparations.
Contrary to what you've written the article does not condemn the apology for being inadequate, it dismisses it as pointless and ridiculous. Williams then goes on to argue that if the Virginia assembly wants to do something useful it should do its job and improve the schools and fight crime to make the lives of white AND black citizens better in the present.
Also contrary to what you've written he doesn't single out 'white' legislators as the problem, but legislators in general, many of whom are black. His article is not really about race at all, it's about the incompetence of government.
You've got a point on the suffering of the deaf, and a valid complaint about those who think only their minoritty has had it hard, but you aren't being fair to Williams when you write things like:
"Mr. Williams and everyone else who seem to feel that whites owe blacks something, let me tell you: get over it."
Because Williams absolutely DOES NOT believe this. He's famous - even reviled by other blacks - for holding exactly the opposite position.
I suggest that those reading this article follow the link and read Williams' article too, because it's nothing like the description written here and he has some very good points to make.
Dave
28 - Paotie
Dave,
In reading Williams' article, my perception of his intent was to criticize lawmakers in Virginia - regardless of race - in passing such a trivial legislative action when so many other pressing needs should be considered. The caveat, however, is that Mr. Williams focuses on resolving black problems, and makes no effort to include other societal problems afflicting other Americans. So, even if my article reflected a different intent by Mr. Williams, I stand by my comments.
I will say, however, that the number of comments regarding Mr. Williams as being a "pariah" in the black community piqued my interest in his writings even more. And to that, I want to thank many of you: his writings DO reflect the fact he disagrees with professional black victims.
So, I owe Mr. Williams an apology for lumping him with others, such as the Rev. Jesse Jackson and Rev. Al Sharpton, to name but a few. If anything, the comments posted today regarding Mr. Williams has allowed me to view his teachings with more respect, which he deserves.
In the meantime, my point remains the same: we can't fight intolerance with more intolerance.
:o)
Paotie
29 - G. Chell
"In the meantime, my point remains the same: we can't fight intolerance with more intolerance."
Any viable solutions?
30 - Dave Nalle
"my point remains the same: we can't fight intolerance with more intolerance."
Something I feel certain Williams would agree with 100%.
Dave
31 - Paotie
Right.
So, that means you'll tolerate me, and I'll reciprocate.
See? It wasn't all that hard, was it?
:o)
Paotie
32 - Christopher Rose
For what it's worth, it's been noticed that Paotie and Jake The Snake share the same IP address and I am waiting to learn whether they also share a brain...
33 - Paotie
As I emailed Mr. Rose, it was an accident, an error.
Look at the bottom of that posting and look who signed off on it.
:o)
Paotie
(I wish I were perfect, alas I am not, but thank you for understanding.)
34 - Christopher Rose
Well, I haven't actually received an email from Paotie but based on his comment above, I'm going to change the attribution of the Snake.
35 - Paotie
AOL must be slow, today.
36 - Christopher Rose
AOL is always slow, that's why it's mostly used by children...
37 - zingzing
dee-ammmm-n.
38 - Paotie
It wasn't slow yesterday, so the kids must've been out partying?
Such a tragic thing ..
39 - MCH
"For what it's worth, it's been noticed that Paotie and Jake The Snake share the same IP address and I am waiting to learn whether they also share a brain..."
Sounds like Vox Populi and Dave Nalle.
40 - Mike In WNY
"my point remains the same: we can't fight intolerance with more intolerance"
It sounds to me like you are practicing a bit of stereotyping. You equate the actions of a few white people with all white people. There will always be jerks of all skin colors. The solution is to ignore them and they will go away instead of feeding into their negativity.
41 - RJ
GREAT post!
More White Americans died in the four-year war to end slavery than Blacks have died at the hands of White racists in the 142 years since.
Think about that, next time "civil rights" leaders like Al Sharpton demand "reparations" for something that no one alive today had to endure...
42 - RJ
"If you can convince these white southern thugs to stop waving the confederate flag, blacks should forget about slavery and reparations...it is a two way street."
Slavery was a part of, well, part of America for 89 years. Slavery was a part of the Confederacy for 4 years.
The American flag is as much, if not more, a symbol of slavery than the Confederate flag.
Either way, GET OVER IT...
43 - reggie von woic
Excellent post!!
Being black (non-American, though) i too have had enough of it in this country...no one (alive) can tell me, un-hypocritically, that this has nothing to do with me. Lets all let the past go and deal with contemporary race issues as they come...
44 - Knowledge
Meeting the opposition to reparations By Donna Lamb
[It's not a good idea to copy other people's lengthy work so I have replaced the article with a hyperlink to the original source. Comments Editor]
45 - Knowledge
Where are the other two articles then? :-(
Any excuse to keep people from seeing the truth will do won't it?
You're either part of the problem, or you are part of the solution. I suspect you are the latter.
46 - Knowledge
A Word Of Explanation...
You will notice that The Harvest Institute capitalized the words Black and White when referring to people. This may feel unfamiliar but we do it out of respect for both the Black and White race. It is inappropriate to capitalize Asians, Hispanics, and other groups and not give Whites and Blacks the respect to which both are entitled.
Q. Slavery happened so long ago. I am not responsible for it. Why can't we just forget it?
A. The nation's race problem, a structural economic inequality between the races, is directly traceable back to and across four centuries of slavery and Jim Crow apartheid (semi-slavery).Slavery and Jim Crow established and maintained imbalances between the races. Under these social and economic systems, nearly 100 percent of this nation's wealth and power resources, and controls of all levels of government, were mar-distributed into the hands of dominant white society. The advantages, preferences and wealth assets, in the form of stocks, bonds, shares, businesses, land, insurance benefits and trust accounts, are passed from one generation to the next through inheritance laws. Though whites today continue to enjoy the advantages of centuries of govermment-supported preferences for Whites, most live in a state of denial about how their group's wealth and power were acquired.
Full story at link below: The Harvest Institute
47 - Knowledge
Racism and "Preferential Treatment" by the Numbers
By Tim Wise, Association for White Anti-Racist Education (AWARE)
Anyone who does political analysis, advocacy or organizing knows that folks on all sides of an issue have "numbers." Trotting out statistics to prove one's point about something is a well-accepted practice, and yet rarely do we stop to think about what certain numbers mean: be they used by "our side," or by political adversaries.
As someone who works full-time doing antiracism work, I constantly run across those whose "numbers" are thrown at me in an attempt to prove two things in particular: 1) that racist attitudes among whites are virtually nonexistent nowadays; and, 2) that the only real discrimination still in evidence is that dreaded "reverse" kind, as in so-called affirmative action "preferences." Herein, I would like to address both claims, with reference to numbers, and what they do (and don't) mean.
Full story at link below: :-(
Racism and "Preferential Treatment" by the Numbers By Tim Wise
48 - Christopher Rose
Well, Knowledge, when you've finished leaping to conclusions, perhaps you'll consider this: If you wrote those articles yourself, heck, I'm impressed.
If you didn't, then you should present them as I did your first, possibly with a nice little introduction to put the article in context, not simply paste in somebody else's work. It's as much a matter of respect as it is good manners.
49 - Christopher Rose
Aah, there you go, now you're getting the hang of it...
Now just remember to please format your links as per Blogcritics protocol. That means like this - Blogcritics and not like this http://blogcritics.org. Thanks.
50 - Knowledge
Listen! I know these people personally. They are members of discussion forums I moderate.
They have no problem with my pasting their information all over the world when I see forums of brain damaged Caucasians spouting their usual uninformed crap about black people and what we are owed by this devilish White Supremacist Nation.
White outnumber us by 5 to 1. If I personally responded to all the hate and ignorance from them that I see online, I woulnd't have time to do anything else with my life. So I have other friends who are also experts on reparations and White Supremacy. Depending on what is being said on the forum, I may decide to use their posts which are easy to copy and paste.
You SHOULD be concerned about the accuracy of the information I share rather than nit picking over trivial things as you are doing.
Stop trying to walk around the cesspool. You are knee deep IN IT! :-)
Now read the information carefully and put some accurate facts in your devilish, nonwhite people hating, diabolical, baby killing George Bush supporting minds.
Need I say more.
BTW, I have one of the most factual blogs in cyberspace. I'm not ready to give these people a link to it, as their knowledge level is to shallow to contribute anything worthwhile.
Spater
51 - Christopher Rose
That's as may be, Knowledge, but that's the way we do things around here.
I don't have any problems with the issues you wish to raise but on two things we're a little inflexible. Firstly, don't be making presumptious and gratuitous insults as you did above and secondly, proper attribution for other people's work is required. If you are indeed a forum moderator, you'll already understand the reasoning.
52 - G. Chell
"Slavery was a part of, well, part of America for 89 years. Slavery was a part of the Confederacy for 4 years."
The American flag is as much, if not more, a symbol of slavery than the Confederate flag."
Comment: That is not the issue here. The issue here is the Confederate flag defended slavery in the civil war. You lost the Civil War!! Now get over it!!
53 - Mike In WNY
I hate to break it to you, but the Civil War was not about slavery, that was just Lincoln's excuse. It was about expanding Federal power over the States and abolishing the States' right to secede from the Union.
54 - Zedd
RJ
You don't get over your history. I don't recall any part of American history that we want to "get over".
Are you saying that it should not be brought up any more? Why?
Do you realise that in no time in our history have we EVER actually faced what we did. How can AAs get over something that hasn't been faced?
I can understand the holocaust being annoying. It wasn't here for one thing and it was for a few years. Africans came here as slaves in 1619 and Jim Crowe was abolished in the 60's. Get over it?? How? It is an entire history of a people. It is the conception of a people. AAs began as slaves. Why should they forget it? Its like telling everyone to forget what their organs are and their entire history and not explaining why.
You are uncomfortable about slavery for some reason. That is your problem. Find a way to understand why and deal with it.
55 - Zedd
Those of you who propose that AAs get over their own history, obviously because it makes YOU uncomfortable, imagine being asked to do the same.
1. Slavery and Jim Crowe is supposed to make you uncomfortable it was sick.
2. Slavery and Jim Crowe is a huge part of American history. Adjust to that fact.
3. African Americans are conceived as slaves. How can they forget slavery? Without slavery they don't exist. Adjust to that reality.
4. We have not FACED the evil of slavery as a nation. We wanted AAs to get over it on day one after emancipation. Adjust and deal with it. Its who we are.
When we are taught the great deeds of our founding fathers we forget that they were hypocrites. We gloss over their owning humans like cattle while declaring "give me liberty or give me death". Blacks don't. We remember and get glassy eyed during The Star Spangled Banner yet FORGET that at that very moment when those words were written people were chained and beaten because of their skin. We don't get over the glossy images of our history yet we ask Blacks to get over the reality of their existence. They exist because of slavery.
The issue of GETTING OVER IT is our problem. It is the rest of us that are ill and are in denial of OUR reality. There is no part of our history that we want to GET OVER but the evil that we have perpetuated on Africans in America. Face it. Deal with it. Its who America is.
56 - Zedd
Mike
It was about expanding Federal power over the States and abolishing the States' right to secede from the Union.
Yes we've heard it all before... they wanted to secede so that they can continue their way of life freely without any Northern values being imposed upon them. Their way of life (gravy) was slavery. They weren't ready to give it up YET.
57 - Zedd
reggie von woic
Are you African or are you European Black?
58 - Arch Conservative
"Do you realise that in no time in our history have we EVER actually faced what we did. How can AAs get over something that hasn't been faced?"
what's this we shit?
the last time I checked there is no one currently alive who was a slave or kept slaves in this nation.
There's nothing wrong with acknowledging the past but you are living in it Zedd.
Reggie is right. You need to let it go and deal with today's realities.
59 - RJ
"forums of brain damaged Caucasians spouting their usual uninformed crap about black people and what we are owed by this devilish White Supremacist Nation."
Yeah, THAT sort of remark is gonna get me (and other White people) to eagerly accept "reparations" for slavery...
60 - G. Chell
"the last time I checked there is no one currently alive who was a slave or kept slaves in this nation."
Comment: The last time I checked, there were at least 40 million white Americans who were alive who supported segregation in the US South, denied equal opportunity to black people and other minorities, kept them in low paying positions despite qualifications, shut them out of several job opportunities and in general enforced a rigid system of discrimination that denied blacks any opportunity to earn and accumulate wealth. So I agree slavery is not the issue here. I alos know one person who was ten years old in 1928 when black people were run out of Rosewood, Florida on heresay of a crime...and he was around and his brothers participated in the atrocity....and he benefited from the atrocity...so yes, we should not be talking about slavery...but reparations for atrocity committed under Jim Crow, because a lot of the people who committed the atrocities are still alive and they should be held accountable. If those criminals were not alive the FBI dominated by whites wont be going there looking for some of these murderers. I rest my case.
Regards
Chell
61 - Zedd
Arch
We as in America. Just as we say WE when referring to all other historical events in this country. You weren't in WWII but you say WE when speaking of our efforts in that endeavor.
I find it interesting how blurry peoples reasoning gets when it comes to AA issues. This tendency is a clear indication that America has a HUGE problem with race. It is a clear indication that White Americans have an enormous issue with African Americans and their history. The unfounded fear of African Americans (who should fear who really), the protest of EVERY endeavour to correct the actions of the past, the misplaced tags placed on AAs and the irrational logic where it comes to where AAs should be based on their history in this country. It all indicates that Whites have THE problem and it is enormous.
62 - Zedd
Its funny how we claim and are proud of the deeds which have lead to this country's prosperity. Whether ones ancestors come from Europe in the 20th century or not we say OUR founding fathers. We celebrate the 4th of July (none of us were there). However when it comes to us embracing the one major EVIL of our society, somehow we are distant and don't claim affiliation with this nation. We leave the victims of it still holding the bag in an almost blaming tone. We choose to ignore that the prosperity that we are so proud of was gained at the detriment of a people and that their offspring sit where they do because of that.
Sick!
63 - Arch Conservative
So I agree slavery is not the issue here.
Yes, it is. The topic of the article was slavery and reparations.
Again..you're living in the past. There is no such thing as slavery in America anymore and it would not be right to attempt to correct the wrongs of slavery today by punishing people that has nothing to do with it.
You say whites protest every attempt to correct the actions of the past yet you seem wholly incapable of understanding the concept of not punishing one person for something their ancestors may have done.
No one is denying that there is racial tension in America today but if we were to look at the past and say well the great grandparents of this group of people oppressed the great grandparents of this group of people so they are owed something by the first group, it will only lead to more racial tension and divisiveness. The best solution is as Reggie suggested. To live in the present and deal with new each issue as it arises and all do our best to ensure that this nation provides equal opportunity, not equal results, for all, regardless of race.
Until you can stop living in the past and obsessing upon all the negative things that happened, of which you yourself were not directly involved in, it will be hard for reasonable and sincere people to take you seriously.
64 - alessandro Nicolo
Holding on to the past with no clear benefit to the present and future is a sucker's game.
65 - Zedd
Alessandro Nicolo
Are you saying that African Americans are holding on to the past with NO CLEAR benefit to the present and future?
You do realise that the reason that Blacks want the nation to deal with the past is so that THEY can move on.
I personally think that if we create a national consciousness about our evil past that we wouldn't engage in such things as the Iraq war. We would have learned how to respect humanity and realised that hurt and irreparable damage that our actions can cost on an entire people and their FUTURE.
Right now we are arrogant because we haven't learned the lessons of the past. We are like spoiled kids. We commit havoc and just move on like nothing happened and actually taunt the people that we injured. Its sick wouldn't you agree?
66 - Zedd
Arch
"You say whites protest every attempt to correct the actions of the past yet you seem wholly incapable of understanding the concept of not punishing one person for something their ancestors may have done.
Who said anything about punishing anyone. The benefits that you enjoy, the benefits that your ancestors rushed from Europe to enjoy were gained at the detriment of African Americans. Making the awarness of this matter a huge part of our education and consciousness; that we have a history of evil, will heal this nation. We need it. That is not punishment. That is responsibility and facing reality. America would be so much further evolved if we would just face this issue once and for all. But because we haven't faced who we are and what our foundation is, we live in denial with an underlying smoldering which comes off to the rest of the world as stupidity, arrogance and bullying.
Our lack of facing who America is renders us unsophisticated and stagnant. We have to import new people and new ideas because we are in ferry tail mode and don't grow on our own. We choose to lounge in our belief in the flag and our bizarrely distorted history. We proudly proclaim and force our idea of democracy on the world when we just got over our issues (legally) in the 60's. THE 60's!! We yet lecture the world about how to behave because we are in denial about who we are. How embarrassing.
I bet that you, a man your age never sat down to think, if you do what we did to AAs, what is SUPPOSED to happen to them over time? How are they supposed to turn out? You just spew out childish conclusions based on your fairy tale delusions of America.
67 - Zedd
Arch
it will be hard for reasonable and sincere people to take you seriously.
Your biggest mistake is assuming that AAs need to impress Whites so that they are treated fairly, like human beings. You are mistaken because you fail to realise that the problem is with Whites. Blacks don't have to prove anything to anyone. Its Whites who have lived off of the trials of this population since the conception of this country and still do. Your naivity (or intense denial) keeps you from understanding that. It is Whites who have to atone. It's Whites who YES must take the steps.
You make another mistake thinking that people are obsessed with slavery. Do you really think when you go to the grocery store or are driving down the road or are at work that the Blacks that you see are thinking about slavery? Like you, they are taking care of their families, paying bills and sending kids to college. Your desire not to deal with the real history of this country causes you to exaggerate the requests of Blacks to deal with the matter of our past so we can all move on.
What I suspect is that many Whites don't really want this issue to go away because once it does, than everyone is truly on the same footing. The imagined White supremacy ends and White privilege goes down the tube and you really do have to compete on merit for the first time ever. Your dumb kid has to compete with smart minorities and he doesn't get a break because of his pink skin because no one will care.
I believe that many don't want to deal with the past because you don't want this country to heal so that everyone is truly responsible for their fate. You get to preach (with your inferior mental capacity) at others because you are a White man and you assume you know better. You dont' realise just how tolerated your inferior capacity has been. When the time comes for true equality, the little that you have attained will be much less because you don't get your White male pass (of today not the past).
Now Arch, the sooner we face this matter, the sooner it will be in the past so that YOU can get over it.
68 - troll
Jedd - please describe what form white atonement should take IYO
69 - troll
(geeze - sorry 'bout the 'J' Zedd)
70 - Clavos
Zedd says:
...Making the awarness of this matter a huge part of our education and consciousness; that we have a history of evil, will heal this nation. We need it. That is not punishment. That is responsibility and facing reality. America would be so much further evolved if we would just face this issue once and for all. But because we haven't faced who we are and what our foundation is, we live in denial with an underlying smoldering which comes off to the rest of the world as stupidity, arrogance and bullying.
Classic Communist self-criticism; straight out of Marxian writings.
Sorry, lady, I couldn't disagree with you more. Few, if any, contemporary whites (none I know personally) feel any guilt whatever for slavery, nor are we in need of "facing" anything. Slavery in America is over. Done. Finis. This is not denial, it is historical fact.
Work needs to be done yet on racism (both ways); much progress has been made legally, but we need to continue to teach children from birth to be color-blind.
We yet lecture the world about how to behave because we are in denial about who we are. How embarrassing.
Be embarrassed if you wish. We made mistakes in Vietnam (history now) and Iraq (still to be corrected), but as nations go, we've done pretty well overall. And no other nation works harder at having a conscience and correcting our mistakes, even if we don't always succeed.
Embarrassed? Not even slightly.
71 - G. Chell
"I hate to break it to you, but the Civil War was not about slavery, that was just Lincoln's excuse. It was about expanding Federal power over the States and abolishing the States' right to secede from the Union."
I wish some of the southern states secede from the Union now!!!
72 - G. Chell
"Classic Communist self-criticism; straight out of Marxian writings."
There are some Americans who masquerade as conservatives who in fact practice Marxism..among them Duncan Hunter, Tom Tancredo, Dana Rohrbacher and Steve King..want to create a Gulag, build a wall and talk about the proletariat...
73 - G. Chell
"Work needs to be done yet on racism (both ways); much progress has been made legally, but we need to continue to teach children from birth to be color-blind."
Comment: Good luck!! Wishful thinking!!
"Be embarrassed if you wish. We made mistakes in Vietnam (history now) and Iraq (still to be corrected), but as nations go, we've done pretty well overall. And no other nation works harder at having a conscience and correcting our mistakes, even if we don't always succeed."
Comment: We will never learn...trying doesn't count..and as of now we have not succeeded...another mistake...running up a huge debt to foreign countries and arrogantly behaving like the world owes us something while we indeed owe the world...trillions of dollars in debt...trying correcting this American or should I say precisely the white American arrogance first!!
Embarrassed? Not even slightly.
74 - G. Chell
"Jedd - please describe what form white atonement should take IYO"
As I have said, you want to get blacks to stop talking about slavery, southern whites should forget the so-called atrocities during the Civil War such as Sherman's March, the Siege of Vicksburg, etc. and stop waving the confederate flag.
75 - G. Chell
"Again..you're living in the past. There is no such thing as slavery in America anymore and it would not be right to attempt to correct the wrongs of slavery today by punishing people that has nothing to do with it."
Agreed!! But, it would not be wrong to punish people who are alive and who lynched blacks, practised Jim Crow and accumulated wealth through sharecropping and other racist discriminatory practices..yes we need to go after folks who took over the black areas of Tulsa and Rosewood after race riots..and we need to prosecute them and force them to pay reparations...some of them are still alive and enjoying their ill gotten wealth.
"You say whites protest every attempt to correct the actions of the past yet you seem wholly incapable of understanding the concept of not punishing one person for something their ancestors may have done."
Punish the people who benefitted from Jim Crow and who are still alive. The reason Japanese Americans got reparations for internment was because people behind it were still alive. Chinese and Japanese Americans were screwed by the whites ot west. But, they dont need any reparations. The rich Chinese and Japanese from Asia have bought up property in formerly white areas such as Walnut and Cerritos, CA and run these whites out of town. In fact the rich Chinese and Japanese are buying property in Beverly Hills and rebuilding the architecture to look like a Chinese mansion..in Chinese style.
"No one is denying that there is racial tension in America today but if we were to look at the past and say well the great grandparents of this group of people oppressed the great grandparents of this group of people so they are owed something by the first group, it will only lead to more racial tension and divisiveness. The best solution is as Reggie suggested. To live in the present and deal with new each issue as it arises and all do our best to ensure that this nation provides equal opportunity, not equal results, for all, regardless of race."
Address the folks who are alive today who committed the atrocities..includes at least six southern thugs and lowlives who called themselves governors, who are still alive.
"Until you can stop living in the past and obsessing upon all the negative things that happened, of which you yourself were not directly involved in, it will be hard for reasonable and sincere people to take you seriously."
Many of these thugs still live in the present.