Many people compare the Palestinian's plight to that of South Africans living under apartheid; two peoples living in one country in completely separate circumstances, one being oppressed and treated inhumanely at the rule of the other. Israel's separation wall that is being erected, at its current course annexing yet more Arab land reinforces the Israeli apartheid view.
Palestinians — like South Africans under apartheid — are suffering a great deal, especially in Gaza where they have been forced by an EU and US boycott to live in poverty as bad as anywhere else in the world. Unlike South Africans there is no significant campaign to stop the oppression. The British anti-apartheid movement became extremely popular across the western world, attracting the support of the Labour and Liberal Democrat parties. Its campaign of boycotting the South African regime, with such popular support, made a big difference in ending the apartheid, according to the people who lived under the regime.
Last year, in a cry for similar support, authoritative members of Palestinian civil society called for an academic, consumer, and cultural boycott of Israel as well as divestment from churches, universities, states, cities, unions, banks and anyone else who wants to take part. The text of the call was:
We, representatives of Palestinian civil society, call upon international civil society organizations and people of conscience all over the world to impose broad boycotts and implement divestment initiatives against Israel similar to those applied to South Africa in the apartheid era. We appeal to you to pressure your respective states to impose embargoes and sanctions against Israel. We also invite conscientious Israelis to support this Call, for the sake of justice and genuine peace.
These non-violent punitive measures should be maintained until Israel meets its obligation to recognize the Palestinian people's inalienable right to self-determination and fully complies with the precepts of international law by:
1. Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands and dismantling the Wall;
2. Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
3. Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN resolution 194.
The call was endorsed by 171 Palestinian organizations, campaigns, unions and refugee rights associations, as the original call said: from "the three integral parts of the people of Palestine: Palestinian refugees, Palestinians under occupation and Palestinian citizens of Israel." The boycott --which could become a major part in the fight to end Israeli oppression-- has begun. Several factors are stopping it from having the popular support from mainstream media and western governments enjoyed by the South African anti-apartheid movement:
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Howard Dratch
As 7/7 and the MI5 chief's announcement showed, this separatism has been increasingly turned into extremism by radical clerics and terror groups. Therefore, because of these ill thought out policies, especially those put into force since January, the U.K. now faces an incredible threat from "home-grown" Islamic terrorism.At least we now know that Mel Gibson was right. The Jews are responsible for all the world's evils, even traffic cops and Tony Blair. Maybe George Bush is, according to you, secretly Jewish.
Your blog remains one-sided.
If we believe you the US, Tony Blair and Israel have gotten together to force the poor young Islamic crazies to plan evil acts of violence and mass murder in the UK.
It's a fishy type of logic you have there.
2 - Al Barger
Oh Liam, you're SO cute with your leftwing anti-Semitic shtick. Couple of Palestinian losers blow up some of YOUR people like the Israelis endure constantly, and I bet you'd change your ridiculous attitude - or you'd be dead one. Defend yourself, or let them kill you - whichever works for you.
3 - michael
Liam:
You did leave out a few things which counter your comparison.
First, apartheid was so awful because it was a small minority keeping a large majority (around 90% of the population) oppressed
Second, in the case of the Palestinians, they chose not to have independence: in 1947 the Arabs uniformly rejected the partition of Palestine, killing a chance for a Palestinian Arab state.
Third, the Palestinian, a minority in Israel (albiet a large minority) have been engaged in a terrorist campaign since 1949 aimed at destroying Israel. It wasn't until after the '67 war that they even started demanding a state of their own.
Perhaps you should acquaint yourself with facts before you start writing long posts.
4 - Liam Bailey
Howard Dratch: You can't deny the relationship, in the article you refer to, I quoted Eliza Mannigham Buller to back up my facts. MI5's caseload had multiplied ten fold since January last year, can you give me any reasons for that, other than the ones I stated in the article?
5 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Liam,
You continue with the same blather in article after article, repeating the lies of the anti-Israel and ultimately Jew-hating media in England and Europe, as well as the lies of the Arab media in your home country. Let's put some truth from someone living in this nation as opposed to the lies that you continually repeat from without.
The facts are, simply put, that apartheid IS practiced in this nation - against Jews. Jewish Israeli citizens are banned from areas A & B within the sovereign State of Israel, rendering the sovereignty of what calls itself "the Jewish State," a sick joke. IN addition, making this sovereignty even a sicker joke, the unwillingness of the Israeli government and its agent, the IDF, to crush Arab terror, means that Jewish Israeli citizens are effectively banned from all parts of Area C that are without the village or town boundaries. This means that Israeli Jews travelling to Ma'aleh Levona, for example, either travel in bullet-proof buses or take their own lives in their hands travelling in regular civilian vehicles. The only way a Jewish Israeli travels into Ramallah is in a tank. If he attempts any other vehicle, he will be dead within minutes.
Israeli Arabs are free to go to any part of this country without restriction. Arabs under the jurisdiction of the Palestinian Authority are free to travel withing areas A & B, and the Gaza Strip. In addition, with the proper papers, they are free to travel within the remainder of the State of Israel. Given that areas A & B are to be a "state on the way," they are treated as foreigners outside of these areas.
I frankly don't give a damn which authorities you appeal to. I have my own eyes to act as my authorities, and they are sufficient. Remember, I live here. You can't bullshit me.
I'll leave my co-religionists to argue with you, to the degree they are willing to.
I have other fish to fry and won't waste my time.
6 - Christopher Rose
Ruvy, setting aside for a moment the rights and wrongs of both sides in this dispute, I really don't see how you imagine your outpourings of hatred and calls for the use of nuclear bombs against both Israel's external enemies and, even more shamefully, your own people are making any kind of sane contribution to the situation.
You can only trust your own eyes to the degree that what they see isn't being dictated by and limited to your own pre-existing ideas. Do you think you can transcend that?
Whilst you're at it, how exactly do you think that living in Israel makes you immune to "bullshit"?
7 - ProfEssays
The Oppression of the Israeli Apartheid doesn't exist at all. Arabs should be grateful to Israel for a chance to be living in Palestine because Jews can easily evict them from Palestine for ever and all the Arabs and Mouslems won't be able to prevent them from doing so.
8 - RedTard
The leftist gargbage is real simple.
1)Palestinian nutjobs and fanatical morons cannot be controlled (and they're much scarier than law abiding Israelis), get that through your head first.
2)Therefore, the only solution must be to control the Israeli government as that is the only remaining option. It's called pragmatism.
Since most sane people would view palestinian bombers as the "bad" guys this presents a problem. How do you punish the Israelis for being murdered? Simple, toss in a little moral relativistic propaganda and a few nonsense accusations, rinse, and repeat and in time it will become truth.
The question is whether our dear Liam is actually aware of the ploy and willfully partaking as a good soldier or if he's just a misguided lemming sucking up the propaganda from those above him and regurgitating it. My guess is the latter.
9 - Bliffle
"Apartheid" is the wrong word to use. This is obviously an attempt to hitch a ride on a powerful political bandwagon and will cause most people to reject it, regardless of it's worthiness. Most people will resent the obvious attempt to manipulate them, and that alone may explain why 14 people resigned from Jimmy Carters operation: regardless of ones position regarding the Israel/Palestine conflict, "apartheid" is a brute force manipulation that will result in opposition from those you sought to bludgeon into conformity.
Drop it.
10 - Zedd
Al Berger sed: Couple of Palestinian losers ....
In this case YES they are losers. They lost their homeland. They lost everything. And YES their mad. What should they do???
11 - Zedd
Biffle
Apartheid is very appropriate. When South African apartheid was in place Americans did nothing; rationalized it, complicated the situation so that it wasn't a matter of good and evil, demonized the Blacks (called them terrorist)... I remember it all.
Biffle this is an opportunity to see evil for what it is, when it is instead of waiting for hind site to sanctify you.
Its always the case: during civil rights , in Germany in Hitlers time; people pontificate and rationalize evil then tisk away when its over, about how and why it could have happened.
Wake up and take a stand
Its evil!!
12 - alessandro nicolo
Don't buy it. The day Arabs look in the mirror is the day I'll listen. The fact remains much of their pain is self-inflicted. Not that I'm dismissing their plight I'm just rejecting their excuses.
13 - Zedd
alessandro
Look in the mirror about what. If someone took your home and all of your family member's homes, locked you Wisconsin in the middle of ho where and gave you curfews and had armed guards patrolling you 24/7 would you not be fighting back however you can???
If you were not under siege and no one had provoked you, then YES look in them mirror, something is wrong with you.
14 - Jesus
Israel is no better than south Africa.
15 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
What, Jesus, you again? I thought the Romans had nailed you to cross and gotten rid of you for us! If you don't want to be king of the Jews, keep yer trap shut!
16 - Franco
Liam Bailey,
I can not distinguish clearly enough from what you assert in your opinion pieces to know whether you are...
#1) simply and innocently “prejudice” (bias with out fact), or
#2) in possession of the most relevant fact, but have chosen to leave if out of your article for obiouse reasons.
The one fact that you leave out of your article stands alone in ripping your assertions to shreds. What is it?
The Covenant of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas)
The Covenant is a deeply religious oath taken between the members of Hamas.
Hamas is the Arabic acronym for "The Islamic Resistance Movement" (Harakat al-Muqawamah al-Islamiyya).
It was created as the armed wing of the religious revivalist Muslim Brotherhood (Ikhwan al-Muslimin) in Gaza, in 1987 or 1988. The Muslim Brotherhood Movement is a world organization, the largest Islamic Movement in the modern era.
The Hamas Covenant is virulently uncompromising in its goals.
Hamas, whom the Palestine people themselves elected, will not (1) recognize Israel’s right to exist, and (2) aggressively intend to bring about Israel’s complete and total destruction as written in their Covenant. and (3) Hamas have printed all these principles through their social charity work into elementary school text books that stand today as required reading.
These beliefs along with others has been feed to the children of Palestine during and since the days of Yasser Arafat Today those once innocent young minds are now adults filled with hate. This cycle of religious hate training is well established and there are a lot more chidden coming up the ranks.
Here are excerpts from the Hamas Covenant, which represents the desires of the Palestinians through their elections.
“Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. It is a step that inevitably should be followed by other steps. The Movement is but one squadron that should be supported by more and more squadrons from this vast Arab and Islamic world, until the enemy is vanquished and Allah's victory is realized.”
"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
'The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him."
Relisgious teachers and other educational interests implemented in Palistine.
“Jews are the cursed enemy of Allah, and killing Jews has been repeatedly presented as a religious obligation. PA leaders preach that the battle with Israel is not merely over borders but to kill Jews. Palestinian Television has glorified the exploits of suicide and other terrorists, in documentaries, in religious teaching and other forum”
Palestine Television
“Allah has predetermined that the Jewish problem will be solved with the extermination of the Jews”
“Allah has predetermined that the Christian-Islam interactions will end with today's Christian countries under Islam. Israel has no right to exist and will be destroyed”
HAMAS receives it support from other Arab nations and those of the international community whom support this cause.
For you, and people like Christopher Rose, who's failure in seeing these facts from pre-existing ideas, lets put something into proper perspective and see how much of this vast Arab and Islamic world, there is, until the enemy is vanquished. And whether Israel is over reacting in it's claim to have to remain in high-end defense mode and quick pre-emtion militay mode.
Israel occupies less then 2% of 1% (0.002) of the Arab or (Islamic) Middle East. That leaves 99.98% of all the other lands in the hands of Arab and Persian Muslims.
Yet the Arabs cry of Israel oppression.
Some other facts of interest.
When the original partitions for Israel and Palestine were fist drawn up through international efforts and the UN, the Arabs argued endless over this, yet seeing no other option then to yield to the international pressure at that time, they shifted their argument onto what lands they would allow the Jews to occupy, and they were successful in their argument. The Jews were partitioned on only the land less desirable to the Arabs, and the areas which the Arabs agreed to, left the new Jewish territories scattered and leaving them highly difficult to defend.
Now some 50 year’s have passed, and Israel, with the sprit of determination and construction, has turned this once barren desert into an abundance of fruitfulness, they have constructed a vibrant economy, and immensely improved the lives of their people. They have done this while under constant and unrelenting attacks from Arab nations coalition attacks, endless terrorism, both from Arab states and un-official Arab non- state actors.
In utter contest to these events, over this exact same period, Arab Palestinian leaders in combination with other Arab states and unofficial Arab non- state actors have not chosen this same spirit of construction. This and this alone is to blame for endless plight of the Palestinian people who still remains in shambles and despair which is utterly humiliating to say the least.
Arabs have a deeply engrained sense of pride, honor and strong will. These character traits are so intense and so emotionally ingrained that it can over take any and all rational and common sense. These character traits can either be their greatest strength or their greatest weakness depending on when, where and how they use them. Add to this Islam+Hamas+Allah commands that they kill the Jews and, well I think your getting the idea.
Here is the kicker. Humiliation is something the Arab can not and will not except under any circumstances and will not take any responsible for it when they have brought it up them selves. If they feel humiliation they must shed if off of them and onto somethng or someone else. This is where it becomes their greatest weakness.
They have tried for over 50 years to destroy Israel and have been meet with humiliating defeat over and over again. They must vanquish them selves of this by casting it back onto the Jews.
Your reasons for leaving this facts out now become the issue and thus the question at hand.
Here is my question.
Considering the facts stated above, that anyone in the world could verify, How do you propose to deal with this Arab (Islamic) mindset to satisfying Israelis concern, which you never addressed?
17 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Franco,
I said I wouldn't waste my time on this thread, and I really shouldn't - but one issue that may influence Liam's writing is the fact that he does get published in pro-Arab journals or magazines. He has mentioned this at Desicritics.org, so I'm not revealing anything here. And he does have a full time job that keeps him at a considerable distance from a computer. So time that he spends answering us is precious time.
Nevertheless, you have revealed one big problem with many of his articles in terms of factual content.
18 - Zedd
Franco
I don't think that you understand the desperation of an oppressed people.
Black South Africans sought help from whomever would help. WHOMEVER. While the United States was playing politics and Americans were taking sides (seems ridiculous now) on the issue of the liberation of Blacks (like you are taking sides on this issue), we got help from ANYONE that would help us.
Gaddafi became a hero to many South Africans. Castro is a great friend. Both were at Mandela's inauguration. If you can not live out your destiny because of an oppressive external power, you will find whatever solutions you can. Within the struggle also, there were highly radical groups who wanted to wipe Whites out of the continent and some who would have liked to see them wiped off of the face of the earth. These were all of our liberators. We are free because of them.
South African liberation fighters were also called terrorists by the White South Africans regime. Adam will tell you. There were also a lot of doomsday scenarios about what would happen when liberation occurred. Doomsday never came and the South African model is one of the best in human history.
In 1945 these people stole their land and subjugated THEM. People will become radicalized. Expect it. If they don't something is wrong. People will not sit back and philosophies about their own liberty. Especially when they have very little else to loose.
19 - Franco
#18 "Zedd
You are passionate about your viewpoints in trying to draw correlation between two separate issues. I, on the other hand do not believe they apply, and I too am prepared to advocate.
This discussion/debate, like all others, requires that ad hoc attracts, or belittling attitudes are eliminated and that intellectual honesty is predominant if it is to be engaged.
These standards do test our own internal constitution when challenged to maintaining them. I am human and have failed at both, but from those failures I have come to see their weakness and thus their danger. If I give power to that danger it will prevent me from contributing to my own growth or anyone else’s.
In my post #16, I brought some facts to light that the author had clearly left out in building his assertion, which thus challenged his position, which Ruvy in post #17 clearly confirmed and Ruvy and I don’t usually see eye to eye on many things. My post also did not contain any ad hoc’s attacks or unfriendly or belittling attitudes directed at the author, thus it did not create a hostile or negative environment for him to respond back to. This builds trust which allows the truth on both sides of the discussion/debate to come to surface, and expanded on and thus knowledge and understanding is straightened, that is of course only true if that is what one is really looking for.
In your post #18 you did not an hoc attack, or display a belittling attitude, which was impressive and is the reason why I am responding back to you at this time.
However, in recognizing that there is not a history of sharing these discusses/debate higher standards, and seeing that you are seeking to once again reengage with me, I first propose the following for your exceptance.
Proposition
Out of the certainty that we all need each other to sharpen up our own minds. Out of respect for these higher standards which starts with mutual respect, which builds turst, which builds to promote rationality, which transformes into learning, which benefits us all.
If you are willing to persevere these higher standards, then I choose to further discuss/debate this issue with you.
How say you.....
20 - SHARK
QUESTION: How long we can continue to argue about terminology -- while the majority of Israelis and Palestinians continue to act like violent, tribal assholes?
ANSWER: oh... maybe ANOTHER few thousand years.
=====
Here's the rub:
~~~~ Each "side" is relatively 'guilty' of WHATEVER THEY ACCUSE THE OTHER SIDE OF.
So... one has no "moral" imperative to use as a basis for considering EITHER sides appeals, etc.
So..
It.
Never.
Gonna.
Change.
=====
My Biblically-Inspired Solution:
Kill each other off.
~but -- Spare the children.
Send them to a new "Promised Land" -- called Arizona.
Tell them they're all cousins.
~NEXT!
21 - Mark Schannon
It's interesting that Franco is the only who's laid out a factual, historial perspective that explains why the Palestinians have no homeland today--yet none of the Jews=Apartheiders seemed to be able to knock down even one of his arguments.
I didn't know that Liam wrote for Arab publications, which explains his incredibly one-sided and simplistic analysis. He writes as if the problem in the MidEast started an hour and a half ago.
It's because of short-sighted people who refuse to study the history of regions such as the MidEast that nothing ever gets resolved.
Is there a difference between the Shias & Sunnis in Iraq and Hamas and the PLO in "Palestine?" These people were wandering clans until the Europeans (mostly British and French) created their country, allowing minority clans to dominate.
If you don't study the history of the region, it's not surprising you'd come out on the side of the poor, mistreated Palestinians. If you do study the history, you'll find that they've been most mistreated by their Arab "brethren."
In Jameson Veritas
22 - The village idiot
This is history repeating itself. We just need the Third Reich for finalization of the Jewish problem. Shark, Im the Village Idiot. Please stop competing for my title. Ruvy, how in the hell can you stand this crap. Then we have this half-baked so called jesus#14 saying Israel is no better then South Africa. That is proof God created dip-sticks. Proud to be the VILLAGE IDIOT. Time to go and slop the hogs.
23 - Arch Conservative
Say what you will about about Israeli-Palestinain Relations but the one thing that always puzzled me was why the Palestinians loved Arafat so much.
The man had billions of dollars and lived in the lap of luxury while the Palestianins who he was supposedly acting on behalf of, lived in poverty and he never gave them a dime.
I guess claiming to hate Israel no matter how much you actually slight the Palestinian people gets you a gold star next to your name in thier book.
24 - Liam Bailey
I have written a massive commen t but I can't post it. it says error 3648 banned word, I have no swear words and I have changed the wordsion ist, Jew and Arab where they appear and holocaust, everything else along those lines, what words are banned?
25 - Arch Conservative
Did you use the word c-u-n-n-i-l-i-n-g-u-s in your post? I think that has been banned