The Palestinian refugees and what are now known as the occupied lands are two entirely different issues, which is something conveniently forgotten on both sides of the discussion. In 1967 the Israeli air force and armoured brigades staged pre-emptive strikes against a buildup of pan-Arab forces. By the time the dust had cleared they had "occupied" territory that had not originally been within the boundaries of Israel. This included the West Bank, including the half of Jerusalem that had been deeded to the Arabs, the Gaza strip, the Sinai Desert, and the Golan Heights.
The map remained unchanged until 1982, when as a result of the Camp David Accords, Israel returned the Sinai Desert to Egypt, which had no impact on the Palestinian refugees because they were never living there anyway. Since that time the territory that Israel controls, save for the Golan Heights, is all part of the original land mass that was supposed to have been two countries.
This question has always remained in my mind — what happened in the post-1949 period to the Palestinian State that was supposed to have been formed simultaneously with Israel? The land was under Arab control – Jordan on the one hand and Egypt on the other – but in the twenty-eight years from 1949 until 1967, nothing was done to form a state.
It wasn't until after 1967 that anyone seemed to come up with idea of the creation of Palestine, after the Arab countries had lost the territory to Israel in the Six Day War. Why during the years that Israel was establishing itself domestically, building infrastructure etc., did the Arab world allow the Palestinians to live in the squalor of camps and not build the state that they were designated?
Part of the reason was of course refusal to accept that they wouldn't one day push Israel into the sea, but you'd think after a decade or two you’d start to want something a little more permanent. Anyway the same towns that exist today in the West Bank existed then. Bethlehem and the rest have been there for a couple of thousand years, and didn't vanish out of existence.
Article comments
1 - Dean
“There is no denying the poverty that the Palestinians live in, but to lay the blame totally at the feet of Israel for circumstances that have existed before they exercised any control over those territories is wrong.”
The poverty could have been avoided if the Billions of Dollars sent to the Middle East by American taxpayers had been used to aid the Palestinians instead of being spent by Israel to build illegal settlements -- settlements regarded as ILLEGAL even by the United States.
“The Arab world has to be held accountable for ignoring the plight of their own people for twenty-eight years.”
Did the ‘Arab world’ know what would happen for 28 years in advance, or did the ‘Arab world’ have reason to believe that the American concept of respect for international law and justice would bring relief to the displaced Palestinians?
“Was it a deliberate ploy to foster hatred for the new state of Israel?”
True if you believe Israeli propaganda.
“Or was it just the governments of Jordan and Egypt wanting as much land as possible?”
Clearly, it was the government of Israel wanting as much land as possible.
Why else would Israel reject all United Nations Resolutions attempting to resolve the conflict by applying international law?
2 - Simon U.S.A.
Quote: "A month or so ago somebody asked me a question that took me aback, not just because of the question, but because of the questioner. She is someone I've always thought was informed and knew about issues and their background, so I was quite shocked when out of the blue she asked me if I knew who the Palestinians were."
Dear Richard, the above mentioned question from "somebody".. aimed at you is valid, but I regret your inability to answer impartially, We understand it could be that you lack courage to tell the Truth!! Now let me see how I can satisfy the questioner:
"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." " (David Ben-Gurion, May 1948. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar)
Even before the above mentioned words were uttered by Ben Gurion, and before the establishment of Israel: terrorism, assassination and propaganda were the primary tools of the Jewish immigrants arriving from Europe and Russia. Ironically, many of them were fleeing persecution but upon their arrival they began to persecute another innocent nation! These Jewish Israeli terrorists organised themselves into groups and one of the earliest one was called the "Haganah"; its members included the likes of Yitzhak Rabin, Ariel Sharon and Moshe Dayan. From "Haganah", the "Irgun" gang was formed by the more fanatical right-wing members; the group was later led by Menachem Begin. However, the "Irgun" gang also split in 1940; their off-shoot was called the "Lehi" also known by the British as the "Stern Gang", named after its leader Avraham Stern.
All of these terrorist groups terrorised the indigenous Muslim/Arabs, driving them out of their lands. This is the source of the problem, the root of the Arab-Israeli conflict: foreigners who have sought refuge in the land of olive (Palestine " "Bilad az-Zaytun"), turn violent on the indigenous population. These ungrateful Israeli terrorists also attacked the British occupational forces, despite the fact that it was the British government who facilitated their "settlement" in these lands. They bombed King David Hotel, killing 91 people that comprised largely of British civilians. Menachem Begin of the Stern Gang was wanted by the British authorities for his criminal activities.
After the establishment of Israel, the "Irgun" gang led by Menachem Begin became the right-wing Likud Party, while the "Haganah" terrorists and the criminal Stern gang integrated to form the Israeli Defence Force (IDF). Therefore, Israel is a terrorist state by its nature; its institutions were born out of the terrorism of terrorist groups and theft of Arab/Muslim lands. Israel continues to function in this mode, terrorising the region for the ultimate goal of building Eretz (greater) Israel. The map issued by Begin’s Irgun gang is proof of that vision of creating Eretz Israel, when Israel was not even born. Menachem Begin explicitly stated this in 1947:
"Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel, all of it and for ever."
However, international situation prevents Israel from achieving this goal of building Eretz Israel immediately; this is a long term objective that is being undertaken with careful planning. To weaken the surrounding Arab countries is one essential milestone for achieving this objective. Thus, dismantling of Iraq, incursion into Syria and Lebanon, eventual annihilation of the Palestinians, preparing to attack Iran, Somalia and Syria, then eventually Saudi Arabia and Sudan, all aid that objective of building Eretz Israel, even though other factors are driving those events. Not surprisingly our fanatical neo-cons with American Jews in white house are the real architects of this aggressive US foreign policy that is design to weaken the Arab/Muslim countries.
Eretz Israel is the goal, and terrorism is the method. It was the Israeli Jews who introduced these methods, like the European colonisers introduced chicken pox to the peaceful native population in the America and Australia. There was no WMD in Middle East until Israel built its Nukes with our full support.
Israelis even openly admitted of their intention of using terrorism, the aforementioned words of Ben-Gurion and the underground newspaper of the Stern Gang explicitly stated this: "Neither Jewish morality nor Jewish tradition can negate the use of terror as a means of battle." After the birth of this illegitimate child called Israel, for which blame lays on us, terrorism of groups and individuals was replaced by state-terrorism.
However, since 1948, in our society Israel has managed to portray itself as a victim of terrorism, instead of being the real perpetrator, while Israel’s victims have been systematically turned into terrorists by our Presidential Administrations. This reversal of the image was achieved primarily by our own media-terrorists, and this continues till today by their one-sided media coverage. In our national media, Jews of all colours to the government of Israel are given maximum air-time, while the Arab voices are given minimal time, if any at all.
For example, the big news in our media is that Iran and Syria have aided Hizbollah, but it is no news that the US and UK has been arming Israel to the teeth for the last 60 years! No one notices that the US and British made fighter-planes, helicopters and missiles are used daily to kill and maime Palestinians. If we examine the weapons dropped in Lebanon, one would think it was the US that launched the attack. Basically, coalition of greedy capitalist-vultures in attacking Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Lebanon is acceptable but not the coalition of Muslim countries defending itself!!
3 - Georgio
Simon ..if what you say is true and and I do find it believable than Israel should be considered a terrorist nation ..I see no way out of this mess unless at the very least the Palestinians have their nation
4 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Boy, Simon. The title "simple" was not invented for you. You have taken Israeli history and distorted it all out of proportion to make Arabs massacring Jews smell like perfume. I fear too many will believe you - particularly Jews too stupid to study their own heritage.
Your slanderous version of "history" is a good try, but it is a more of a bowdlerized version of someone trying to make a movie to oppose the movie "Exodus".
5 - Georgio
Ruvy why don't you give us your account of history..?I find his account of events believable but maybe the Jews where not as bad as he made them out to be,..but it's time to call a spade a spade,,The Jews will kill innocents to get what they want just as the Arabs will do so don't play the victim card please.
6 - Dave Nalle
Wow, Richard. Such a harmless little post brings out the anti-semites in all their virulence.
Stick to your guns. Your facts trump their distortions for those of us not mired in racism.
The only part I have an issue with is this:
There are Arabs who still live in Israel to this day, but I'm sure the comfort level for them after five armies of Arabs had just tried to wipe out their neighbours must have been pretty low and not conducive to staying put.
I don't think those Arabs would feel uncomfortable were it not for the efforts of groups like Hamas and Hezbollah. There are Arabs who are Israeli citizens, who live in mixed communities, who vote, who own businesses and property. They even have a number of seats in the Knesset. Other Arabs who fled could have followed them in becoming a productive part of Israeli society, but chose not to.
Dave
7 - gazelle
#6 arabs in israel, or Druze for that matter, are second class citizens and are not uncommonly discriminated against, despite all the laws and rhetoric and elected MPs, they also have more social problems in comparison.
is the govt concerned?
they do support hezbollah or at least dont cheer when israel strikes just any quaint village of the highway like ...
best
8 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Gazelle,
Arabs in Israel are discriminated against. But the Druze are not, and the Circassians are not. The structure of the present state is very faulty, and there is a great deal of hatred in the culture; hatred by Arabs against Jews and hatred by Jews against Jews. A lot (but not all) of this is because of the secular structure of the state and a nasty secular élite that wants to walk away from its heritage. This is why Al Qaeda's theological reasoning for the destruction of the State of Israel (thqt the Children of Jacob asre entitled to this country, but because Jews have not put G-d first, Moslems have the right to seize the land) is not far off the mark at all. That is why there will have to be a fundamental change here to a society that puts G-d first and pleasing America and Europe last. The missiles from Nasrallah all are designed to bring about this change (even though this is not what Nasrallah intends).
That change has to work both to make Jews publicly acknowledge the religion and adhere to its basics, and it has to work to effect economic equality for ALL who are willing to live in peace here and acknowledge the G-d of Israel.
If this change does not take place by our own hands, the hands of Jews in Israel, then the awful prophecies of the Bible will bring them about. Either way, in the end, the Wahhabi and their spoor will have to admit their errors and repent - or we will have to destroy them. The same is true for the Shia.
And, with the help of G-d, if we have to, we will.
9 - Howard Dratch
Simon, Mr. U.S.A.
That is a wonderful history of a country and its efforts to root itself in an unfavorable climate.
Perhaps, someday, you will find a real country to attach it too. In some other universe.
If, however, you are right about the evil of a country that fights to free itself from the U.K.; then what must you think of those rebellious American colonists fighting against the poor English who, except for Edmund Burke (who still called them, "our colonies"), were regarded as a rebellious rabble fighting a duly formed government of the mother country?
And the poor Mexicans against whom the newly-formed America began its efforts to rid them of about half their sovereign nation?
10 - gazelle
Hi Ruvy
i dont have a first hand account but my account of the druze was based on things like this, problems of integration etc. this ones 1995 but i have a feeling it still applies. i think there are also accounts which give a worse picture.
druze minority 1990s
best
11 - Dean
Howard says:
"what must you think of those rebellious American colonists fighting against the poor English who, ... were regarded as a rebellious rabble fighting a duly formed government of the mother country? And the poor Mexicans against whom the newly-formed America began its efforts to rid them of about half their sovereign nation?"
Comparing what happened centuries ago is ignoring how the world was supposed to change after WWII...
Going back centuries is only useful to satisfy a medieval mentality.
12 - Jewish El Diablo
Simon,
An excellent summary of my favorite people. I really like this gem.
Quote "To weaken the surrounding Arab countries is one essential milestone for achieving this objective. Thus, dismantling of Iraq, incursion into Syria and Lebanon, eventual annihilation of the Palestinians, preparing to attack Iran, Somalia and Syria, then eventually Saudi Arabia and Sudan, all aid that objective of building Eretz Israel, even though other factors are driving those events. Not surprisingly our fanatical neo-cons with American Jews in white house are the real architects of this aggressive US foreign policy that is design to weaken the Arab/Muslim countries."
Why dont you come over my lair sometime and we can sip some wine mixed with Christian/Muslim blood and discuss dominating the world. Care to start another third-world civil war, I can make it happen. If you want, I can file down my horns and maybe we can meet for coffee and discuss poisening some wells.
Oh, what's that Simon, you don't really hate Jews? Your offended that I'm using the dasterdly "Anti-Semitic card" Then tell me Simon, how you've managed to construct such an intersting and complex geopolitical narrative whose nexis is the actions and desires of Jews in Israel and the USA. Is anything else accounted for in your world view, perhaps other people places and events that do not involve Jews? The whole "Protocols" thing is played out Simon.
I appreciate your and anyone elses quest to educate themselves on alternative historical narratives, afterall what is the "Truth" is never known or relevant. Striving for balance is a good thing and anyway, all those Arabs/Muslims can't be that wrong can they? But if you really believe in your political prospective then sir, You ARE an anti-semite.
13 - nour
Simon what you are saying is worng because the land isnt called iseral it's Palstine!!!! If you were going to put something up like this then do it right next time because a lot of stupied people are going to believe you. What you are saying about Iseral is all wrong. Iseral live in Palstine not Palastine lives in Iseral. Palestines were here first. How about Gaza how's falt is that for killing about 1,000 amount of people and injuryiung half of them. You should do some edditing on this page because people want the truth not the lie.
14 - Brunelleschi
Good post Simon, very true.
The lack of balance in reporting the conflict in the US is comical. Israelis only "retaliate," and Arabs only start things as "terrorists."
The news tries to paint the picture of a sensible, pro-western people simply trying to live where "they belong," and for some unknowable reason, haters want to kill them and always will. The only conclusion we are supposed to make is that we have to help kill the haters.
There are two sides to every story, but someone doesn't want us to see both sides. Maybe that's because the other side is that the Israelis started the current cycle of terrorism.
15 - Ruvy
What "Simon said" wasn't worth two shits - then or now. You did see, Brunelleschi, that he wrote his comments in 2006, didn't you?
That you regarded his post as "good" makes you even more of a conspiracy theorist than me! That's saying quite a lot! You've swallowed the Jew-haters propaganda line in its entirety and it is now sunk in your cheeks like a hook in a salmon - all the Arab propagandists have to do is reel you in. Perhaps they already have.
What I told Gazelle 2½ years ago pretty much holds true now - but you may want to look at my latest comment at Dan Miller's article on religion's influence on politics. There was a sea change in the rank and file of the IDF - thank G-d!
Richard Marcus attempted a balanced view in what he wrote 2½ years ago - for that reason I did not take him to task for the tremendous amount of points that were missing from his article.
I'll not take you to task either - it would be as profitable as playing a game of "Simon Says".
16 - Jordan Richardson
Ruvy,
Sometimes you're so confused and angry that it's just flat-out adorable.
17 - Brunelleschi
Ruvy is so out of control he is entertaining.
18 - Ruvy
Jordan, I'm neither angry nor confused. But I know my Jewish history a hell of a lot better than either you or Brunelleschi ever will, and have learned that casting pearls before swine is a waste of time.
19 - Brunelleschi
You may know a lot, but its so one-sided its close to useless.
You guys were the terrorists first!
Admit it!
The first step in solving the problem is you accept the truth.
:)
20 - Ruvy
You guys were the terrorists first!
What a useless statement!
Like I said, Brunelleschi, casting pearls before swine is a waste of time. Are you talking about Matatyahu Hashmonai, who started his revolutionary career as a murderer and a rebel? Are you talking about the Sicarii, who kept Jerusalem in such an uproar 2,000 years ago that the Romans could just sit outside and wait before they burned the city? Are you talking about the Jews of Cyprus who murdered off the non-Jewish population there 1,900 years ago and were then murdered off in turn? Or are you talking about Jews who had to fight the British and the Arabs both when the perfidious Brits ruled this place?
If, by chance, you are talking about the last group, you may wish to consider the career of Amin el-Husseini, a Gazan pig, who was nurtured by the British, who incited Arabs to kill Jews from the 1920's to the late thirties, who was directly responsible for the massacre of the Jews of Hebron in 1929, and then in the late thirties fled to Nazi Germany to kiss the pecker of his idol, Adolf Hitler.
He did all sorts of good deeds for Hitler, but he objected to Hitler's plan to dump all the Jews he expelled from Europe here. Talk about NIMBY! That is why the Jews were gassed in Europe!
After the war, this bastard mentored Yassir Arafat, encouraged Nazis to come to Egypt to help Nasser build missiles, and today both the PLO and Hamas draw inspiration from him. So, we today are fighting Wahhabi hatred which became with time, the bastard child of the Nazis. And the influence shows.
A hakenkreuz is on its way to you to show my deep respect for your knowledge of history. How would you like it decorated?