During a series of public appearances which Senator Obama probably regrets, the Reverend Mr. Wright said that he hopes the controversy surrounding his relationship with Senator Obama will have a positive outcome and spark an honest dialogue about race in America. Wright says black church traditions are still "invisible" to many Americans, as they have been throughout the country's history.
I am White, and have not attended any church, White or Black, for many years. In my youth, I did attend White churches, and over the years have come to know a few Black men, most of whom might well be disparaged by other Blacks as “Oreos.” I find some of the Reverend Mr. Wright's comments offensive, and disagree with them. I find most of the Reverend Mr. Sharpton's comments offensive, and disagree with them as well. The Reverend Mr. Sharpton's recent threats to “close down” New York City because a court of law acquitted two Black policemen and one White policeman of the “racist” killing of a Black man were, to my mind, wrong. So were the resultant protests, including bystanders who yelled out "Kill the police!”.
I don't understand the Reverend Mr. Wright's anger, or that of the Reverend Mr. Sharpton. Nor do I understand the latter's great and very public anger about the alleged rape by “rich” Duke University lacrosse players of a “poor” Black stripper, or his equally great silence when the charges against the alleged perps were found completely baseless; they were declared innocent of any criminal wrongdoing, and the prosecutor who had brought and vigorously pursued the charges for his own political reasons was fired, disbarred, disgraced and forced into bankruptcy. Apparently, the Reverend Mr. Sharpton sees racism as an irrelevant factor when Whites are disadvantaged, even in the sorry circumstances of that case. Perhaps, as he walked off into the sunset, he should have mumbled that he had misspoken.
Over the years, the status of Black people in the United States has improved tremendously. Slavery was made unlawful many years ago, and no longer exists in the United States (although it persists in some parts of Africa, about which I have noticed little anger among Blacks in the United States). Racial discrimination is, for the most part, unlawful, and many Blacks hold high positions in business and in Government. Not long ago, no one in his right mind would have considered seriously the prospect of a Black Supreme Court Justice, a Black Secretary of State or, God forbid, a Black candidate who just might have a good chance of becoming President.
So, there is quite a lot about Black anger which I do not understand. I think I do understand the politically inspired parts of these things, including The Reverend Mr. Sharpton's persistent rants designed to create social unrest and get media attention; but maybe I don't even understand that.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Pam Baker
Dan,
I agree with you on several points but I don't think much will come from a dialogue with the grandstanders who merely seek fame and fortune at the expense of their own race rather than mutual edification and true social change.
For such a dialogue to be truly meaningful and honest, it will have to include many voices on both sides, most of them new and previously unsung with few in consensus. I expect the whole ordeal will be painful but well worth the effort.
May I recommend an excellent book for a different perspective on this subject? Out of America: A Black Man Confronts Africa by Keith B. Richburg.
Enjoy!
2 - Ruvy
Interesting piece, Dan. I tend to agree with Pam about the futility of dialogue with grandstanders.
I happen to think Obama is the best president we could get out of you. At least the enmity of the American regime would be out in the open where cockroaches like Olmert would not longer be able to deny it. As for the anger of black Americans, they have plenty of reason to be angry. But they don't have any reason to demand "positive discrimination" and "affirmative action" has shown itself a failure.
Racial reconciliation needed due to enslaving blacks imported from Africa is a problem I no longer have to deal with. Frankly, we have enough problems here in Israel.
3 - Ruvy
Dan,
I suggest that you look at the comments that the Obnoxious American wrote on Reverend Wrong and the comments from Pablo and me on his article as well.
You'll see the thin soup that makes up Judaism in America, some nasty truths (Pablo is not wrong in part of his analysis - but the problem is that the analysis is not complete), and a Jewish analysis of all this, as opposed to one posited by an American Jew whining about the inevitable Jew-hatred that Jews encounter in exile.
4 - Dan Miller
Just an interesting side note -- it appears that the appearance of the Reverend Mr. Wright at the National Press Club was organized by Barbara Reynolds, an enthusiastic Hillary Clinton supporter.
Oh well, politicians will be politicians.
Dan
5 - Doug Hunter
Interesting, I believe your theory on anger and reason need a bit of tweaking. The reason people get angry regarding race is because the level of personal attacks. For example, I get tired of being painted as priviledged and racist. (I made my first money writing an internet site which had nothing to do with my skin color, I wasn't even advantaged by having computers given to me by family or used prominently in my school, I learned them in the military and through reading books at the library and bookstore) I know that nothing I do has 'underpriviledged' anyone and that I don't treat people differently based on skin color, period. Therefore, it makes me angry when people speak otherwise and have their message largely accepted by society.
6 - troll
Dan - what is it about white 'minds and culture' that you think American blacks don't understand - ?
7 - Dan Miller
Troll,
Have you ever read Douglas Adams' Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy five book "trilogy"? Zaphod Beeblebrox once said to Ford Prefect, "I wish I had listened to what my mother told me." Ford asked, "What did she tell you?" Zaphod replied, "I don't know; I wasn't listening."
I don't know what the American Blacks don't understand; I am not Black, and I guess if what they don't understand was ever articulated, I wasn't listening.
I guess one of the points I was trying to make is that we, and they, should listen.
Dan
8 - troll
...blacks understand the 'white psyche' all too well while as Wright points out US black culture has developed in what is for white folk 'the shadows'
perhaps the onus is on whites to do the listening
I thought that Wright gave a clear and positive statement of his theology and found nothing particularly objectionable in it
9 - Brian aka Guppusmaximus
In saying that we need an “honest dialogue about race in America,” I think the Reverend Wright is absolutely correct.
First,I think someone should educate Mr.Wright on what the definition of "honest" means before we consider any attempts at the dialog part.
Second, most of his comments are definitely Anti-American and I could care less if that "dud" failed out of service only after six years. Does anyone know why he only spent six years? That's not a good sign that he is a patriot.
Third, since when was the bible about black & white? Why should someone have to go to a black church to understand God or Jesus? Why should someone have to go to a white church to understand God or Jesus? Church shouldn't be about color and if Mr. White was a "real" man of God, he would already be doing the footwork for an honest dialogue between races! Mr. White totally denounced his role as a spiritual mentor to Obama. Then what f*cking role could he possibly play to anyone about religion? Then what makes him so important that we should listen to his racist & Anti-American tirades, Especially if they are honestly supported by the word of God(I seriously doubt it)? Being a pastor IS being a SPIRITUAL MENTOR. And, if you aren't accurately mentoring people in the ways of God & Jesus then you are only doing a dis-service to yourself & your church.
10 - troll
Church shouldn't be about color and if Mr. White was a "real" man of God, he would already be doing the footwork for an honest dialogue between races!
...he is
11 - Dan Miller
Doug,
I agree that personal attacks are part of the problem, but not the whole problem. I don't recall ever having been called a privileged "Racist," although Zedd did once refer to me as a "White Supremest" in a comment. I didn't take the comment too seriously, because under some definition I might be one. I don't think so, but then there is a lot about the Black culture I don't understand and, perhaps because I don't understand it, I don't much care for.
These things work several ways. I have a very good friend, who is a "liberal" and a strong supporter of affirmative action. He confided to me, however, that when he learned that the obstetrician designated by their health care plan for wife was Black, he felt concern that the doctor might be an "affirmative action" product. He was greatly relieved when he discovered that the Black doctor was an excellent doctor.
Would the doctor have considered him a "racist" for having these concerns? Probably. I can understand my friend's concern, and I can also understand the feelings which the doctor might have had if he had been aware of my friend's concerns.
Affirmative action, a product generally of the White culture and White liberal guilt, has had its good and its bad effects, among the latter the concern of my friend, and the (sometimes quite justified) feeling among Whites that they have been discriminated against in favor of less deserving Blacks.
All of these issues and others need to be ventilated, and perhaps, just perhaps, the furor surrounding Senator Obama may provide a vehicle.
Dan
12 - Brian aka Guppusmaximus
I thought that Wright gave a clear and positive statement of his theology and found nothing particularly objectionable in it
Really? The man denounces his main responsibility as a pastor. Picks apart the old & new testament to support his racist & anti-American tirades, basically stating that we deserved 9/11. And when confronted about his "way of the mark" comments, he only turns people's attention to the supposed atrocities that this country does on a daily basis.
If that man has to answer to God then he is definitely in a world of sh!t!!
I'm just happy that I don't believe in that fairytale and can see past his BullSh!t!!
13 - Brian aka Guppusmaximus
Correction - "way off the mark"
14 - Dan Miller
Troll, you say:
...blacks understand the 'white psyche' all too well while as Wright points out US black culture has developed in what is for white folk 'the shadows'
perhaps the onus is on whites to do the listening.
I disagree with your thesis that the Blacks understand the "white psyche" if for no other reason than that there is no single "white psyche." Nor do I think that there is a consistent Black understanding of the White psyche(s). There has to be a dialogue, not a monologue.
Dan
15 - Clavos
There has to be a dialogue, not a monologue.
Quoted for Truth.
16 - Andy Marsh
I always hear christians saying that their religion is a religion of peace...all I can say is that the small pieces of this reverends sermons that I've heard DO NOT inspire peace! His words make christianity just as much a religion of hate as that other religion that claims to be a religion of peace...
And how can you have a dialogue with someone that believes that the govt is the reason for every wrong ever committed in this country or the world for that matter?
17 - troll
for 'white psyche' read 'systematic racism'...that should do it - you are quite correct of course to point out that we are not dealing with complete and consistent categories here...but what's your point - ?
calling for dialog as you do seems to me to be a way of saying 'shut up'...dialog is a series of monologues
now how can the promised '40 acres and a mule' be delivered...
18 - Dan Miller
Troll,
You say calling for dialog as you do seems to me to be a way of saying 'shut up'...dialog is a series of monologues
According to the online version of the American Heritage Dictionary, a dialogue (first definition) is "A conversation between two or more people." The fifth definition is "An exchange of ideas or opinions: achieving constructive dialogue with all political elements." Definitions 2 - 4 have to do with music and plays, and aren't particularly relevant.
I use the word "dialogue" as the term is defined in the first and fifth definitions above. I don't consider a diatribe directed by an irritated wife at her husband, along the following lines, to be a dialogue:
Wife: you are a no good two timing jerk and your feet stink and not only that but you drink too much and have bad breath . . . . You ought to be ashamed of yourself and my mother agrees with me and so do all of my friends.
Husband: Yes, dear.
A serial monologue, perhaps,(and perhaps one leading to serial monogamy) but not a dialogue.
Dan
19 - Andy Marsh
Dan - that would be an incorrect response...the proper response is...You're absolutely right honey...I'm going out back to kill myself...I promise, I'll clean up before I leave.
20 - troll
Dan...it's telling that you miss the underlying dialog in your example of a serial monologue
whose myth is it that Wright isn't proposing dialog - ?
21 - Dr Dreadful
Dan:
Re your Hitch-Hiker quote in #7: it was Arthur who was speaking to Ford, not Zaphod.
22 - Dan Miller
Doc,
Sorry 'bout that. Some cretin borrowed my copy of the trilogy, and as soon as I remember who it was I shall have a "dialogue" (under Troll's definition) with that person.
Dan
23 - troll
basically stating that we deserved 9/11
Brian - is that what he said or did he say that racism and government policy made 9/11 inevitable - ?
24 - Dan Miller
Doc,
I have tried several times to respond to a comment, only to have the comment rejected by Akismet as spam. It wasn't spam, I promise.
Dan
25 - Andy Marsh
troll - what's the difference...saying we deserved it or giving excuses why we deserved it? It's all the same fucking thing!
It amazes me how many apologists this asshole has! He's a fucking racist and a conspiracy theorist, plain and simple and no one should be making excuses for him least of all a person running for the highest office in this country!
Everyone seems to love him...why, because he's a man of the cloth? What's next, excuses for the asshole catholic pedophiles??? Or is it a black thing and I'm just missing it???