In an interesting turn of events, Senator Joe Lieberman (D-CT) took some time off from his efforts to keep dangerous video games out of the hands of the little kids they were designed for, to issue a remarkable statement on the War in Iraq through in the Wall Street Journal's Opinion Journal on Monday.
Of course, the context of this is that Lieberman would really like a shot at the White House in 2008, but given the ever-leftward direction his party is going, taking a positive position on the War in Iraq seems like a strange way to win its general election.
Lieberman is far from ignorant about Iraq. He is certainly among the brighter people on Capitol Hill, however misguided he may be on some subjects. The gist of his Iraq position seems to be that the situation is nowhere near as grim as many - especially many in his own party - paint it, and that there's no justification for pulling out our troops.
Lieberman's familiarity with the region is considerable. He's made many, many trips to Israel during his career and has been to Iraq four times in the last year and a half alone. No one on Capitol Hill knows as much as he does about what's going on in Iraq, and his article is basically a report on his recently ended tour there.
Lieberman's basic observation on the overall improvement in the situation in Iraq is pretty significant:
Progress is visible and practical. In the Kurdish North, there is continuing security and growing prosperity. The primarily Shiite South remains largely free of terrorism, receives much more electric power and other public services than it did under Saddam, and is experiencing greater economic activity. The Sunni triangle, geographically defined by Baghdad to the east, Tikrit to the north and Ramadi to the west, is where most of the terrorist enemy attacks occur. And yet here, too, there is progress.
He verifies what sources from within Iraq have been saying and which the eager beavers of the antiwar movement have been denying desperately, that conditions in most of Iraq are better than they've been in a generation, even in many of the most troubled areas. He has seen firsthand that the country is recovering and that people are embracing and making use of their freedom.
He goes on into more specifics:
There are many more cars on the streets, satellite television dishes on the roofs, and literally millions more cell phones in Iraqi hands than before. All of that says the Iraqi economy is growing.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I will not comment on the domestic politics of Joe Lieberman. That's for you guys to worry about. But in my eyes,he is nothing but a court Jew who thinks that if he says the right things about (meaning against) Israel, he'll get a pat on the back from the non-Jewish establishment running your country. Unfortunately, your nation is filled with these types, who constantly bring shame upon us.
That does not detract from the fact that he probably has his facts pretty straight about the present siuation in Mesopotamia in terms of improved services in southern and northern Iraq.
But as long as Americans are going home in body bags instead of troop transports, the quagmire has not slipped away.
2 - SFC SKI
I was also pleased and surprised to read Sen Liebermann's remarks. I do wonder how they will affect his standing with the Democrats. I haven't seen much coverage or commentary on his statements, I wonder why more of the blogs haven't latched onto them either.
3 - troll
now atsa good piece of writing
and I've got my hairy green fingers crossed...I look forward to the day that we can argue about whether or not the US should give reparations to the families of 'shock and awe' victims
Lieberman is a glad hander from whom I wouldn't buy a thing...but he is articulate and as you point out this might be important.....I'm waiting to see The Man present his National Strategy this AM - have his handlers done their work - ?? will he come across as an embattled fumbling whiner again - ??
how do you think Saddam's trial and martyrdom (assuming...) will affect the situation in the triangle - ?
troll
4 - Dave Nalle
Of course, part of the problem here is that now everyone who wants some press time is going to be coming up with their brilliant strategy for the war, which is going to get us precisely nowhere.
Dave
5 - Liberal
"but given the ever-leftward direction his party is going"
Leftward? The Dem party is moving to the left? In what universe??
"No one on Capitol Hill knows as much as he does about what's going on in Iraq"
Of course you quized the other 534 members of Congress, right?
"has been to Iraq four times in the last year"
I visit the bathroom every day. Does that make me a plumber?
"conditions in most of Iraq are better than they've been in a generation"
Conditions are better than they were during the Iran war, the gulf war and a decade of U.S. led sanctions? I guess that's progress. Suicide bombings. Twenty-eight thousand dead civilians. Depleted uranium in the water supply...but they have more cell phones.
"27 million Iraqis who want to live lives of freedom"
How did Joe manage to talk to 27 million people?Not one of them wants to live under an Islamic theocracy? None of them?
"the most open, democratic political system in the Arab world"
That's saying a lot.
"82 percent are confident their lives in Iraq will be better a year from now than they are today"
Which could mean that their lives suck so bad now that they have to be better in a year.
"Now, I absolutely can't stand Joe Lieberman"
Joe's a nice guy, maybe the nicest guy in politics. (Yes, I know him personally). But with Democrats like Joe, who needs Republicans.
6 - Howard
My first vote in a national election was cast for Dwight Eisenhower and my ill-informed votes have always been for the Republican candidate. I think I would change that streak if Joe Lieberman were to become the Democratic party nominee. That, ofcourse, will never happen. Lieberman is far too honest to ever be the flag bearer of the party of Lyndon Johnson.
7 - SFC SKI
I find it remarkable that, with the exception of MSM reps, those that are currently in Iraq, or have been there are much more realistic and somewhat optimistic about the situation and its eventual successful resolution than those that only know what they read in the papers.
8 - voltairean
dave nalle,
while i have never been a big fan of your views or questionable facts, this is an excellent post - well written and fair. And I really want to believe that Lieberman is right that Iraq is getting better. Though it does fly in the face of everything else I read and see.
and how much credence can you give lieberman if he still has aspirations of being president?
also, you should check out http://www.crooksandliars.com/ which has video of lieberman on imus this morning and he does not make out quite as well as he does here.
9 - RedTard
That is the power of the MSM. The reality on the ground makes very little difference. That continual drip of Bush Lied, Vietnam, and Quagmire references have taken their toll on public opinion.
10 - tommyd
If things are so goddamn rosy and "looking up" in Iraq then why did 81 US soldiers die this month and over 2100 in the war total???
Why is the US arming the Shiites to the gills in order to fight the Sunnis??
Why is Israel and the US giving full autonomy to Kurdistan when the US talks up democracy so much??
If things are so goddamn rosy in Iraq and it's all the fault of the MSM, then how come barely anything's been rebuilt in Iraq??
Why do 80% of Iraqis feel the US presence is fueling the insurgency? Why do 80% of Iraqis want the US military occupation to end immediately??
If Iraq is so goddamn rosy, why do journalists never leave the Green Zone?
You all rant and rave against the MSM because of their "bad news" reports, but they're just repeating Dept of Defense briefs and sending them out. But furthermore, how the fuck is the media supposed to hide all the Americans and Iraqis getting killed in Iraq?? Are they supposed to hide it?
Why is it that the MSM publishes and shows news segments on some normal aspects in Iraq and yet is still accused by rabid right wingnuts that they never show "all the good that's being done" in Iraq??
If things are so goddamn rosy in Iraq, like Joe Lieberman says, then why aren't the Senator's children on the front lines in Iraq defending what Joe Lieberman so heartily cheers for???
If Iraq is such a lovely place, why hasn't the US military been able to defeat an unorganized insurgency who use ancient machine guns and homemade bombs??
If Iraq is so goddamn rosy why have billions of dollars of US taxpayer money disappeared in Iraq??
Yo, cheerleaders of 'Merrikka out there, whaz up wit y'all jivin' an' sheeot??
11 - tommyd
Let me add this. Why is it that all the warmongering cheerleaders for American Empire rant and rave at the "left-wing" MSM nowadays when the fact is that the MSM, during the run-up to the war, promoted all the fear-mongering talking points verbatim that Bush and his Neocon cabal were ranting about concerning Iraq's "grave threat to the world" and "WMD's" bullshit??
I see how it works with y'all: MSM good when it supports your preconceived notions; MSM bad when it reports things you don't like.
God, you guys want all the cake and all the eating!! Watch it. You'll get as fat as Rush Limbaugh if you're not careful.
12 - Dave Nalle
"but given the ever-leftward direction his party is going"
Leftward? The Dem party is moving to the left? In what universe??
The universe of moveon.org, Howard Dean and Hillary Clinton, Mr. Ostrich.
"conditions in most of Iraq are better than they've been in a generation"
Conditions are better than they were during the Iran war, the gulf war and a decade of U.S. led sanctions? I guess that's progress. Suicide bombings. Twenty-eight thousand dead civilians. Depleted uranium in the water supply...but they have more cell phones.
Yep, and that's enormously significant. A failing society doesn't have cell phones.
"27 million Iraqis who want to live lives of freedom"
How did Joe manage to talk to 27 million people?Not one of them wants to live under an Islamic theocracy? None of them?
For some of them islamic government IS freedom. Doesn't make him any less right.
"82 percent are confident their lives in Iraq will be better a year from now than they are today"
Which could mean that their lives suck so bad now that they have to be better in a year.
If you actually follow the link I provided and read the sequence of quarterly surveys you'll see that what they represent is a hell of a lot more meaningful than that.
Dave
13 - Scott
"given the ever-leftward direction his party is going"
Nonsense. If anything, the Democrats are the moderate party now.
Of course, you also called Bush a "liberal" Republican. So maybe you're just out of touch, Dave.
14 - Dave Nalle
and how much credence can you give lieberman if he still has aspirations of being president?
Ordinarily that would make me question whatever he was saying, but the position he's taken here is so contrary to his best interests in a presidential primary campaign that I think it lends him some legitimacy.
also, you should check out http://www.crooksandliars.com/ which has video of lieberman on imus this morning and he does not make out quite as well as he does here.
I'll check it out tonight, but I'm not sure I'll be able to sit through it if Imus does much talking.
Dave
15 - Nancy
Bush delivered his address to the usual carefully vetted pre-selected screened audience, and it's nothing but the usual Dubya pap'n crap. To his dying day, that fool is gonna believe that if he keeps repeating the same mantra, it will make it true. By now, most creatures with a central nervous system & brain cells would have learned....
16 - Liberal
"A failing society doesn't have cell phones."
I guess that depends on your definition of success.
17 - RedTard
"If things are so goddamn rosy in Iraq and it's all the fault of the MSM, then how come barely anything's been rebuilt in Iraq??"
Water and Electricity are above prewar levels. The vast majority of the population is experiencing better standards of living. Of course I'm sure you don't really want to know that. It doesn't go with the little fantasy you've created.
"If things are so goddamn rosy and "looking up" in Iraq then why did 81 US soldiers die this month and over 2100 in the war total???"
Many of the dead included in the number are accidents which happen everywhere there are 150,000 people. The actual war dead is probably around 1,600 killed. Since the war began about 40,000 people have died because of drunk driving. Perhaps your maniacal rage could be more appropriately channeled at stopping that.
"If Iraq is such a lovely place, why hasn't the US military been able to defeat an unorganized insurgency who use ancient machine guns and homemade bombs??"
The guy that bombed the Atlanta Olympics hid away for years, so did the Unabomber. It is relatively easy for a small minority to attack and then hide even inside our own country where we speak the language and the vast majority wants them caught.
18 - Dave Nalle
If things are so goddamn rosy and "looking up" in Iraq then why did 81 US soldiers die this month and over 2100 in the war total???
That's a relatively low total compared to some months, and if you check the stats on how they died, a good portion of them didn't die in combat.
Why is the US arming the Shiites to the gills in order to fight the Sunnis??
There are a large number of Sunnis in the IDF and more all the time, so that comment just makes no sense.
Why is Israel and the US giving full autonomy to Kurdistan when the US talks up democracy so much??
They're not getting full autonomy, just virtual autonomy, and it's because they ARE a functioning peaceful democracy.
Why do 80% of Iraqis feel the US presence is fueling the insurgency? Why do 80% of Iraqis want the US military occupation to end immediately??
Read the links. This figure you quote from Kos or wherever is basically crap.
If Iraq is so goddamn rosy, why do journalists never leave the Green Zone?
Ever heard of Michael Yon?
If things are so goddamn rosy in Iraq, like Joe Lieberman says, then why aren't the Senator's children on the front lines in Iraq defending what Joe Lieberman so heartily cheers for???
Because they're adults and he doesn't have the right to sign them up to fight.
If Iraq is such a lovely place, why hasn't the US military been able to defeat an unorganized insurgency who use ancient machine guns and homemade bombs??
Last I checked a lot of US soldiers wish they could chunk their M-16s for ancient weapons like the M-14 and M-60 that are more appropriate to the kind of fighting they're doing.
Let me add this. Why is it that all the warmongering
When did supporting a good outcome for the Iraqi people become 'warmongering'?
BTW, I have nothing to say about your comments on the MSM. That's your issue and has nothing to do with this post.
Dave
19 - Dave Nalle
Ssshhhh, RedTard - don't bring up all the accidental deaths or how a higher percentage of our soldiers would have died in car accidents if they'd stayed here in the US instead of going to Iraq. That statistic causes the lefties to go absolutely berserk.
Dave
20 - MCH
"Since the war began, about 40,000 people died because of drunk driving."
- Redtard
Comparing traffic fatalities to being killed in combat is no different than pissing on the graves of those courageous soldiers.
"That statistic causes the lefties to go absolutely berserk."
- Dave Nalle
No, actually it just proves how out-of-touch with the horrors of sacrifice you righties who've never served are.
21 - Eric Berlin
As a conservative Democrat (a breed as rare as lib Repubs these days) Lieberman likely has the ability to cut through some of the hyperbolic rhetoric stemming from both sides. Still, this is one voice and one opinion, and one likely looking to stake out the same centrist ground he couldn't hold onto with any gusto (known in some quarters as Joementum) in the '04 Democratic primaries.
This is a nice piece, Dave, though I really must take you to task as others have for claiming that the Democratic party is in a leftward "drift." Likewise, throwing Dean, moveon, and Hillary together in the same sentence is a nearly meaningless gesture. Clinton, for instance, has staked out a consistently moderate and sober position on the war. Dean has been consistently anti-war from the start and should really be applauded for his intellectual honesty. moveon is a slogan that the GOP would like to claim, but I don't think it holds much water with the broad public.
22 - Lobo Lumpfish
We can always count on MCH to spread the hate and deny the validity of easily verified statistics.
23 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Asked of Dave: "If things are so goddamn rosy and 'looking up' in Iraq then why did 81 US soldiers die this month and over 2100 in the war total???"
And answered: "That's a relatively low total compared to some months, and if you check the stats on how they died, a good portion of them didn't die in combat."
Ah, the luxury of living in a populous country.
ONLY 21 soldiers died last month, and lots of THEM did not die in combat. It all depends on how you count casualties, Dave.
There were four people in the El'ad family in July 2001. When one of them, the son Nadav, died near Hebron in his Israel Defense Force Engineering Unit in August 2001, 25% of the El'ad family was gone.
It is not clear whether he died in a terror attack or if it was some kind of accident with explosives blowing up. What was clear is that he was gone.
Does this mean that you cut and run if you get a high casualty rate? Or even when you get a low casualty rate?
Of course not!!
But when you put soldiers in harm's way, you must always consider whether the losses taken justify the gains made. I suggest that your country's leadership, accustomed as they are to counting only votes and units of "human capital" are not doing this. If they did, most of your soldiers would be out of Iraq by now.
Two thirds of Iraq appear to have been "improved" in their condition. There is Kurdistan, which you've written about already elsewhere. The old Basra vilayet in the south seems to have been pacified to a degree. In essence, one could throw a cordon sanitaire around central Iraq and let them stew in their own trash. Why should your soldiers die there?
24 - vikk
Reading Eric's comments reminded me of my response to Lieberman in the past, during the elections, and today. Until he accepted the VP spot, I had considered him a thoughtful, deliberate, and consistent fellow but the latter seemed to fade as the campaign wore on. And so today, I can only wonder what he would really think if he was back on the trail again. Would he continue to be so outspoken. I'm not sure.
As for Hilary being moderate and sober on war, I can only assume this is a momentary--but rather lengthy--aberration. I don't for a minute believe she would keep the same stance if she were to achieve presidential status nor do I believe Boxer's comments about her silence to be anything more than a rather clumsy attempt to help shape a more than probable flase perception of Hillary's true stance on the war and all the attended politics. I dont' know if Dean is intellectual honest but I will give him kudos for being consistent. At least you always know where he stands.
25 - Eric Berlin
I think Ruvy points the way to the distinct shift in the policy debate in the U.S. Which is a healthy thing, really -- vigorous and open debate (and transparancy!) has sorely been needed over Iraq policy. The very fact that it's now acceptable to ask why our soldiers are fighting and dying over there is an important step.