Oops. Turns out Bush was right about Iranian nukes. Now what are we going to do?
The irony would be rich, were the subject any less serious. After years of the the left and international critics accusing the Bush administration of fearmongering and sabre-rattling about Iran's nuclear weapons program, it turns out that Bush was dead on — Iran will have a working nuclear weapon within the year.…
Article comments
— go to most recent comments26 - Cindy D
Too much defense of ideology and not enough conversation.
This would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
27 - Les Slater
Bryan,
"If you read my comment throughly you will see that I am making the point that we may have allowed a number of options to expire by letting so much time pass."
I did read you comment thoroughly. That is what prompted my #12.
It's your perspective. You have been so brainwashed that you don't even recognize that with all the threats against Iran it would be pure stupidity for them not to set up the best defense they can muster.
You outlook is the moral equivalent of defending cops confiscating video cameras after one of their cold blooded murders.
Les
28 - Baronius
Bar, rather than reacting to what you expect to happen, you should look around and see what's actually happening, THEN react. I'm hoping like crazy that Obama succeeds.
There isn't much in his social agenda that I agree with, but on topics like education reform, the country has a chance to do great things. As for his economic agenda, I can only hope that the economy succeeds in spite of his actions. This article is about international affairs - and that's a subject where we all hope for nearly the exact same results, by nearly the exact same methods. There's no one hoping that our President fails beyond the water's edge. At least, no one sane.
I will continue to defend Bush and Cheney, as I have before. I can live with the fact that you think it's dumb.
29 - Les Slater
You have internalized the imperialist mindset.
30 - Les Slater
29 was for Bryan but it applies to Dave as well.
31 - Cindy D
You have internalized the imperialist mindset.
That bears repeating.
32 - Bryan Myrick
Les,
You are adding a layer of meaning to what I wrote that doesn't exist, and I can't make sense of your train of logic. I didn't state or imply that the Iranian response was stupid.
It isn't just that Iran is taking steps to defend itself; every nation has that right. It is that fact the Russians are handing them first-tier technology, not another shipload of rusting SA-8s, and that has strategic implications beyond Iran, particularly in light of the increase of Russian activity in nearly every quarter of the globe.
Would you please bring up evidence instead of just attacking what I said? I'm not brainwashed and it's a weak way to debate your point to make a PERSONAL ATTACK like that.
Oh, yeah, throw in another kitchen sink tangent to the conversation by referencing dirty cops as a part of your "argument"? Your analogy doesn't even make a logical circuit with this topic. What do the cameras represent? Who are the cops?
This is just pointless street-fighting passing for debate.
The entire intelligence and defense establishment is looking at this situation with apolitical concern. Are you going to be a cynical stone-thrower while other people grapple with the process of finding real solutions to real problems?
33 - Dr Dreadful
Baronius, I do remember reading many predictions like that about Bush and Cheney somehow finding a way to stay in power - but not on Blogcritics - except by Ruvy, who had his own reasons for making such forecasts.
I'm sure there were similar ones coming from the Rabid Right towards the end of Clinton's second term. You really don't want to pay too much attention to nutcases. (Leave that to Dave, for whom it appears to be a hobby.)
As far as Bush and Cheney being owed an apology - nah, and they wouldn't expect one. As public figures, being accused of every heinous crime in the book comes as standard. They'll survive.
Speaking of not paying attention to nutcases, has anyone heard from 'Hope & Change' recently? Anyone?
34 - Les Slater
"The entire intelligence and defense establishment is looking at this situation with apolitical concern."
Apolitical? 'War is a continuation of politics by other means. ...'.
35 - Bryan Myrick
Les,
Man, do you like to pick nits when you run out of arguments.
I shouldn't have to sit down and open the dictionary every time I write a sentence. Apolitical was used in the context that, despite what Democrat and GOP leadership may feel about our foreign policy, the overall idea that Iran's nuclear ambition is something that is real and will need to be dealt with crosses party lines.
I take it you're ignoring every other point I have made. It takes a solid intellect to admit when someone else makes a good opposing argument.
36 - Baronius
Dread, I'm as rabid a righty as you'll find, and there was no such talk in 2000. Sure, Gore tried every legal maneuver he could think of, but when the Court sent him packing, he literally went home and packed.
37 - Dave Nalle
I don't believe I wrote off Obama in the article, so don't lay that at my door.
Bryan had the key point earlier on in the thread. For whatever reason, be it Bush's loss of credibility or the foolish naivete of the left, or a combination of the two, we wrote off the Iranian threat and delayed dealing with it for too long, so that now President Obama is faced with a much more troubling situation than he should have had to deal with. The options are fewer and the stakes are higher than they would have been if we hadn't listened to "experts" like those I cite in the article who common sense told us were dead wrong, no matter how sincere or qualified they may have been.
Dave
38 - Roger Nowosielski
"You have internalized the imperialist mindset."
Yes, it bears repeating. What was the song of not too recent past - Where Have All The Flowers Gone?
Where have all the flowers gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the flowers gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the flowers gone?
Girls have picked them every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
Where have all the young girls gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the young girls gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the young girls gone?
Taken husbands every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
Where have all the young men gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the young men gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the young men gone?
Gone for soldiers every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
Where have all the soldiers gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the soldiers gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the soldiers gone?
Gone to graveyards every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?
Where have all the graveyards gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the graveyards gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the graveyards gone?
Covered with flowers every one
When will we ever learn?
When will we ever learn?
But I guess lots of commentators here were still kids then, and so they still think like ones.
When will they ever learn?
I suppose a nice, crispy nuclear exchange, plenty casualties on both sides, would be a good start. Let's pray for one, then, or get this stupid pretense of a discussion over with.
I'm sure glad some of you guys can only talk. The world would be in a real sad shape if you had the power to pull the trigger. But then again, talk is cheap!
39 - Baronius
Roger, if you left-click the X at the upper right hand corner of your screen, this stupid pretense of a discussion would be over for you.
40 - Roger Nowosielski
Here you go again, Baronius. Taking offense because you think your shit doesn't stink. I said what I wanted to say, and if you can't take the irony, piss off!
41 - Elrgonaut
You are absolutely correct. Iran has thus far amassed more than 700 kilos of low enriched U235 (the fissionable Uranium Isotope U235 that is, the only other Uranium fissionable Isotope being U233. By the end of this April (the very latest), the Mullahs will have enough low enriched U235 to proceed with the next stage of their catastrophically sinister plans (the acquisition of the "bomb"), the further enrichment of U235, to a Weapons Grade level of around 90% (from the present 4%). The technique for higher enrichment is the same and fully mastered by the Iranians. It's strongly theorised by many that the Mullahs, in parallel to the Natanz enrichment Plant, have also built another, more advanced, Uranium Enrichment Plant (not far from their already known and under IAEA surveillance, Plant at Natanz) ready to be used as soon as the 850 kilos of Low enriched U235 are amassed (expected to take place in April).
In Parallel to the U235 enrichment side of things, the Iranian demonocracy is working feverishly to improve their Shahab 3, ballistic missiles (so they can be capable of carrying a nuclear warhead), and perfect their knowledge of the conversion of high enriched U235 to a hemispheric metal shape nuclear bomb. IF NOT STOPPED NOW, the Mullahs will have achieved all the above by August-September of this year (2009), and one morning the World will wake up to the most frightening ever announcement made to mankind: The Islamic republic of Iran is in possession of the Nuclear Bomb!!!
By then, it will be to late and the apocalyptically demonised plans for a Worldwide Mehdian holocaust, of the Iranian Mullahs will start to unfold, with perhaps -initially- an enforced, total hegemony of Iran over the Islamic Middle East, followed by an attack on Israel and the beginning of a worldwide Nuclear holocaust.
Frightening, scary, BUT very-very plausible scenario. IF we do not stop the paranoically disturbed Islamist minds of the Mullahs NOW, in a few months, not only it will be to late just for Israel and the Middle East, It will be to late for the entire Planet Earth.
PS. Just a "minor" correction, if I may.....Iran IS NOT producing Plutonium (Pu239) for a Plutonium Bomb as stated in your article-post.
Although they have a Deuterium Plant in Arak, (Deuterium, OR Heavy Water, is absolutely necessary for Plutonium Producing Nuclear Reactors), they have not built the Reactor needed, as YET.
They are concentrating (for other, cunning reasons, to fool the World....)on their Uranium bomb, and they are only months away from acquiring it.....
North Korea, is the other Rogue Country, that has produced enough Plutonium (not exactly of the purity, Pu239 purity that is, required for a Bomb)for a rudimentary, crude Plutonium bomb.
42 - Les Slater
Bryan,
"...the overall idea that Iran's nuclear ambition is something that is real and will need to be dealt with crosses party lines."
Across party lines? You mean within the confines of those two parties. Do you think that those two parties are the exhaustive domain of allowed thinking? Why must you limit yourself to guidance from the two parties of war and their cohorts in the media and academia?
It is within the confines of those two parties that the blight on humanity, Israel, has every right to arm, to have a massive nuclear arsenal. This was also true of apartheid South Africa. And then also, who doesn't have that right.
Iran isn't the problem. The problem is the imperial U.S. saying it has the right to do anything it fuckin' pleases to anyone, anywhere, anytime. Have you noticed that the U.S. doesn’t acknowledge the sovereignty of any other state? Have you noticed that it doesn't respect elections in other countries unless it supports the regime? For the U.S. a coup, or military intervention, is a perfectly good way to overturn the will of the people. Do you know how the Shaw came to power in 1953? Can you imagine why the Iranian people don’t trust the U.S.?
The U.S. says Iran is part of the 'Axis of Evil'. That means they are targets for regime change. All the more reason to arm. And you complain about them adequately defending themselves. Read the last paragraph of your # 1. Your regret is that U.S. and/or Israel may have lost the ability of attacking. You complain that they may have a defense that might actually work. It’s OK for pretend defense, obsolete defense or maybe just bluster. That's morality of the wolf in the chicken coup.
The U.S. always wanted to destroy the Soviet Union. All options were on the table, including military. It was them getting nuclear weapons that gave pause to direct military assault. That was good. The U.S. is the only country that ever used nuclear weapons, on civilian population, no less. That was a message intended for the Soviet Union. The fact that the Soviet Union got nuclear weapons was good, very good, and for all the ranting about evil Russia, they never used them at all, much less on civilian populations.
Les
43 - Roger Nowosielski
Perfect logic. A nuclear war to prevent all future nuclear wars. I had better review Dr. Strangelove. Perhaps I missed something.
44 - Roger Nowosielski
But Les, with respect to the Soviets, remember, there was a policy of peaceful coexistence, a Soviet concept eventually transfered to the realm of foreign relations; and we reciprocated.
You must grant, therefore, that it was relatively speaking a stable situation compared to the one developing with Iran and the Middle East. There must be some other means of diffusing the situation.
45 - Roger Nowosielski
As an addendum to #44:
"Khrushchev [himself] promoted the concept beginning in 1961 in an attempt to reduce hostility between the two superpowers, particularly in light of the possibility of nuclear war."
How ironic that many BC respondents would be more hawkish than Khrushchev. Live and learn.
46 - Les Slater
Roger,
Peaceful coexistence was nothing but another name for a policy that the Soviet Union came up with in 1925, 'socialism in one country'. It was the disavowal of instigating revolution outside the country.
The problem for both the Stalinists and imperialists alike was that the Kremlin was not able to control the situation. Revolutions happened anyway. The fact that the Soviet Union existed was an objective factor in revolutions unfolding.
It was also an objective factor for why there were not more revolutions. The U.S. thought that a Soviet Union weakened by WWII would be ripe for overthrow by a nuclear armed imperialism.
It just took a while to get the American population from seeing the Soviet Union as an ally to seeing it as the evil enemy. The anti-Soviet propaganda was quite heavy, much heavier than anything about Iran of late. The McCarthyte witch hunt scared most people into keeping any doubts to themselves.
By the time the U.S. population was sufficiently ideologically cowered, the Soviet Union had a deterrent, one that worked.
In the meantime the U.S. banked on the Kremlin to sell out revolutions. There was just enough threat from imperialism to keep the Kremlin in the business of selling out revolutions.
The fact that this factor no longer exists or is highly discredited has objectively enhanced the prospect of revolution. This is good.
Propaganda is much more sophisticated these days. They use things like political 'science' miseducation to develop lay propagandists.
Les
47 - Roger Nowosielski
Well, I was only referring to the narrow interpretation characterizing detente. And the context was the optimal foreign policy with respect to Iran. We can talk about the desirability of revolutions at a later time.
48 - Dave Nalle
Les, it's always entertaining when you start talking like you live in a completely different universe from the rest of us.
Dave
49 - Cindy D
He only lives in a completely different universe from brainwashed people Dave.
In fact, he lives in a much more informed universe than most people, including me.
(of course if you don't check what he says against actual facts and merely go by your own indoctrinated viewpoint, you're not likely to discover this)
50 - Dave Nalle
I don't question his facts, Cindy. I just find his interpretation of those facts to be surrealistic. I have this reaction because I'm familiar with the same facts and know that they clearly carry a very different meaning from the one he assigns to them.
Dave
51 - Cindy D
I don't question his facts...
His interpretation of those facts is merely against the grain of what you've been taught. Of course it's "surrealistic".
There are plenty of scholars who will back him up Dave. I doubt all of them are "surrealistic".
So, either it's surrealism or perhaps you haven't actually looked at the other side?
52 - zingzing
trust me dave, your interpretation of facts is just as much in your head as les' are in his. to a large majority of this planet, both of your interpretations are either inscrutable or surreal (largely because most people wouldn't bother to think about it to begin with), so it's no surprise that you disagree on what these things mean.
what you hold to be logical is subject to your individual logic, i guess.
(and your logic is really messed up, if not messy.)
53 - Cindy D
(largely because most people wouldn't bother to think about it to begin with)
About 80% is the best estimate I've gotten...
54 - Ruvy
I've been working and haven't had the chance to check back with you all.
First to Hope and Whatever...
Can someone explain why American Jews are some of the BIGGEST antisemites? They're not - assimilated British Jews are, followed by the secular assholes in Tel Aviv. But to answer you:
BY AND LARGE, (all rules have exceptions, sometimes significant ones) Jews in America are running away from being Jews. They want out in the worst way, or have wanted out in the worst way since I was a kid, and at least until the time I moved away from America (I didn't love it - so I left it).
That's part of the origin of all those jokes about there being a Chinese restaurant (which serves pork) in every Jewish neighborhood. That's the reason for all the intermarriage and assimilation. I was on track to become one of those assimilated, intermarried Jews, too, but - History got in the way. History has a nasty habit of doing that.
Jews voted Democratic for all these decades because, to be blunt about it, the Republicans were a bunch of Jew-hating bastards in the 1920's, and Al Smith was smart enough in 1928 (and earlier as governor of New York) to extend the hand of friendship (as only a working man can) to all those Jews struggling to get by who were busting their balls to get out of the slums they lived in all over America. Smith lost, but Jews ran away from the Republicans in 1932 and voted for FDR.
As the Depression got forgotten, and as guilt from the Holocaust set in, some Jews made good in the Republican Party - Arlen Spector and Rudy Boschwitz come to mind immediately - but the Republican party has always been the "church-goers" party. The Conservative party of New York, which is ideologically where most Republicans are today, was a Catholic party and when I went to one of their meetings out of sheer curiosity, I was asked what a Jew like me was doing there by someone who recognized me from the Jewish Students Union. Getting the picture?
In the general narrative of things, Jews started out in the slums, voted Socialist, worked their way out of the slums, voted Democratic and wormed their way into the upper class - and still voted Democratic because even though they might have had the same interests as Main Street Republicans, it was the Republicans who had no use for them when they were crawling out of the slums. Personal memories go a long way in politics and count for an awful lot.
As I said, there were significant exceptions to this. Some of my relatives in New Jersey were active in the Republican Party.
And then Israel came along to fuck it all up.
The immigrant generation in America was supposed to be the one making all the sacrifices in Babylon in the West, and kids like me were supposed to exist off the fat of the land (note where that phrase comes from - from Genesis, describing Goshen in Egypt where Israel and his sons settled to be with Joseph, escaping famine in what was to become the Land of Israel). And for a long time, I was just like that. The trouble with Israel is that for most Jews in America, who want to continue living off the fat of the land, going to the best universities, screwing the prettiest Gentile girls, etc., Historic Destiny is just a damned pain in the ass. Who wants to be the "Chosen People" fighting off smelly rag-heads and stinky Persians with their chess boards and games of shesh-besh, when they can enjoy fancy French and Chinese restaurants in mid-Manhattan and then go home to watch American Idol, 24 and Conan O'Brien?! What a fuckin' drag! I mean, who needs it?!
That is why, even though Jew-hatred will increase exponentially in the States as the economy goes through "hope and change" - collapsing all the way, most Jews in America will continue to think that America is the place to live off the fat of the land. And they will view Historic Destiny as just a pain in the ass, something to be ignored if at all possible. And they will mouth all the bullshit platitudes of the CFR; "two state solution", "peace with the Arabs", the "historic rights of the 'Palestinian People'" and all the other garbage - because it is easier than facing up to their Historic Destiny; it is easier than taking that leap of faith and paying attention to the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who called out to Moses from the burning bush in Midian over three millennia ago.
And that is why most of the Jews in America will suffer the same fate as did most of the Children of Israel in Egypt. They will go to their graves in blood. And that includes most of my family, by the way. So that is not said with any joy at all.
That is the simple answer to your question.
55 - Dave Nalle
Cindy, I was immersed in the "other side" of these issues for 25 years if you count my time living in the Soviet Union and then my time in marxist-dominated academia. I've seen everything that perspective has to offer and I found it wanting. It makes for very neat theories, but it is a system which does not work in the real world when dealing with the needs and desires of real people.
The worldview which Les advocates has had what successes it has had because it offers a guarantee of a minimum quality of life to those who have nothing at all, while at the same time guaranteeing the maximum possible unassailable power to those who are at the top of the system with no accountability whatsoever. It fulfills all the dreams of the two most dangerous classes in any society, the rabble and the tyrants.
Dave
56 - zingzing
dave, you see marxists in your underwear.
but that's not saying that the ussr had a good idea. well, it was a good idea. just impossible to execute.
but, yeah, the "marxist-dominated academia?" psh. you couldn't go to church and not call the congregation communists.
(really, they're everywhere, dave. everywhere. they have spies. look at all the anagrams for "austin, texas" and see what you come up with.)
57 - Dr Dreadful
look at all the anagrams for "austin, texas" and see what you come up with.
"Six nut state"?
58 - zingzing
WHAT DOES IT MEAN!?
59 - zingzing
wow... "satan exit us."
60 - Cindy D
It fulfills all the dreams of the two most dangerous classes in any society, the rabble and the tyrants.
Which is why some Anarchists are trying to meet some Marxists in an agreement that would actually accomplish something.
Because Anarchists and Marxists (only together) have enough, to accomplish something workable.
61 - Ruvy
Dave,
You spent time living in the Soviet Union, not Russia. You saw the Slavic character as it was influenced by a despotic do-nothing bullshit regime. So, the Russians you saw lived in a despotic, do-nothing, bullshit society. They come here and they are a whole hell of a lot different. Russia, shed of its communist overlords, is also a different place. And when Slavs have to work together, given real motivation, they work together well. Russians are proud, and await the opportunity to off the arrogant west. They always have, since the days of Peter the Great.
The Soviets created the Spetsnaz - but the Spetsnaz lived on after the Soviet state died. And the Spetsnaz will figure out a nasty way to do in America; one of their graduates rules Russia today. I don't like the SOB, but I respect him - as I respect all of my enemies.
You don't.
62 - Brunelleschi
Ruvy-
Where do I start?
Without Jews, we wouldn't have much of a left. Why is that?
Think about Marx, the real, historical Jesus (the guy that said the powers in charge would fall), and modern heavy-hitters like Chomsky. Add your own.....
Left Jews have defined the terms in which we think and argue.
A big salute!
Get with the the program!
63 - Ruvy
Roger,
When you live with as many Russians as I do, you get to learn Russian history from their point of view. Stalin had the honest desire to conquer the world, and until he died, he tried to do just that. He also had every intent of murdering off all the Jews in the USSR. His stroke/poisoning on Purim in 1953 was a miracle for us, and his subsequent death removed that threat.
After he died, his successors felt they wanted to consolidate the country and expand peacefully - and this was the policy or Nikita Khrushchov, and all of his successors until Gorbachov.
64 - Ruvy
Brunelleschi,
Get with the the program!
That's what the pagan Greek pigs told Jews in Modi'im, 2100 years ago. So, some old man tried to "get with the program" - really it is much easier than living by your conscience - but a believing Jew, Matatyahu (Matt for short) Hashmonai ran his sword through the old man and led a rebellion that got rid of the pagan Greek savages. His son made the mistake of seeking the Roman savages for friends, but that's not the point of the story.
I live in the spirit of Matatyahu Hashmonai. That's my program. Keep that in mind.
65 - Brunelleschi
Dave Dave Dave-
Try and step out of your elementary ideological conditioning for a moment and get smarter. I am offering some insight for you-
Academia is not "Marxist." it is critical. It is supposed to be. The Flying Spaghetti Monster gave us brains. He wants us to use them. Relax. Marx was a critic, not the first, and not the last.
The reason we keep talkin about him speaks to the power of his criticism, not the accuracy of his failed predictions.
Your "our way is better" dogma reminds me of the college republican freshman that I used to laugh at in college. These wide-eyed optimistic, ideologues would argue for the existing system and its wonders with no backup or knowledge other than the expectation of a bright future in the existing system. They could not even think of criticizing it, because they expected to use it themselves for gain and a good life at the upper levels of the economic totem pole.
As one becomes educated and aware, you can become critical, or defensive. That is natural and expected.
Don't think that you or your ilk have a monopoly on being defensive or in loving the system that you expect to carry you up the food chain.
Its human nature and happens everywhere.
Here's how I shut up those simpletons back in the day, and it still holds-
The USSR had the exact same people. The Daves. They are identical in terms of what I described above, only their ideology was opposite.
What the Daves in the US and the Daves in the USSR have in common is the acceptance of the system that they expect to live in to carry them. Criticism is bad. Acceptance is good. Join the party. Our system is better, because I am going to succeed in it.
The uneducated, uncritical college republicans and the communist party true believers are exactly the same people. They hate each other, but they just hate their counterparts.
Put a Dave in the USSR, and they will defend the party endlessly, and use the concepts of the system to do so. Put a Communist Party true believer in the US, and they become college republicans.
You are what you hate.
Why?
Human nature. There are always people that want to decide, get ahead, do well. Nothing wrong this that. It is expected.
Critics of marxism love to say "OK, sounds good in THEORY, but look at practice, it has never worked."
Why?
Human nature.
Socialist experiments attract Daves too. Put ME in charge of the Party, and I will make it work. Don't criticize. Believe.
What if the socialist experiment isn't perfect? Not to worry, shut up, the other side is worse. Believe.
It's all relative.
The same people screaming the loudest about socialism from the outside are exactly the same people screaming the loudest about capitalism from the outside.
Don't be a Dave.
Even the name of this site is Blog Critics, not blog defenders of bullshit!
66 - Clavos
Left Jews have defined the terms in which we think and argue.
A big salute!
Get with the the program!
You heard the man, Ruvy; get in line like a good little Jew; get in the line with all the other Jews and "Get with the program."
67 - Ruvy
Clavos,
You heard the man, Ruvy; get in line like a good little Jew; get in the line with all the other Jews and "Get with the program."
Which way did Brunelleshi say the gas chamber was again, Clavos? Just a second, let me load the clip in my Tavór, and I'll be right with you.
68 - Les Slater
Dave,
“I was immersed in the ‘other side’ of these issues for 25 years if you count my time living in the Soviet Union and then my time in marxist-dominated academia.”
Brunelleschi is correct in that the Communist Party member in the Soviet Union was the twin of the Republican in the U.S., neither thought critically. The only real difference is that ‘Communist’ was a complete fraud. And you went for it, hook, line and sinker.
I said a few posts earlier (46), “The fact that this factor [Stalinist parties] no longer exists or is highly discredited has objectively enhanced the prospect of revolution. This is good.” One less fraud to help create the perspective that many like Dave still live with.
Les
69 - Brunelleschi
Les-
Yeah.
One thing I left out was the contradictions inherent in taking the concepts from a critic, Marx, and what happens when they get co-opted by believers when they try and put them into practice.
Something gets lost in translation.
We have the same thing. Locke and his embrace of private property as a mechanism to enhance the middle class and displace the crown was co-opted by the Founding Fathers, because they wanted to take his place themselves.
..and Christians distort the philosophy of Jesus the same way.
Again, it's human nature and predictable.
70 - Jordan Richardson
You know what's fun? Constant fear.
71 - Ruvy
I'm getting back to basics here because you are all straying off the point. And if this is something that can kill you - ands nukes in the hands of a hostile power willing to kill you CAN kill you, you ought damned well pay attention.
So that we're clear here. I'm not going to worry about me in this comment because OUR job as Israelis is to ditch the traitors and idiots who kiss YOUR government's ass. That is an entirely separate issue. If we face an attack, it will be from HIzbAllah and Syria, as well as Hamas, with Russian ships slowly moving in on the coast.
Let's return to you, because you, as Americans, need to comprehend the threat you are actually under.
A nuclear threat from Iran is minimal compared to the threat from the Russian Federation. But the threat from Iran would be more on the order of nuclear devices stored on ships docked in or near Venezuela. The ships steam out to sea and the devices get launched high in the atmosphere, blowing up and creating an electro-magnetic pulse. The EMP would cripple a large amount of unshielded computers, but most likely would not damage direct defense capability.
I'm going on the assumption that your defense capabilities are shielded sufficiently to guard against an EMP. A dangerous assumption to make, but one has to assume that somebody is thinking at the Pentagon.
So the EMP would create a sense of panic and uncertainty in the population, and the surprise nature of the attack would cripple the will of the American government, not its actual capability to fight. From there, any number of events could happen, but the most intelligent thing for an American enemy to do would be to wait at least a week, to allow a sense of confusion to spread. Meanwhile, if I were the Iranians or the Russians, I'd spread rumors of betrayal of America by France or Germany or even Israel. This would be to confuse the populace even further.
When the government has relaxed its guard just a bit - that is when they strike. And when they do strike, they strike first at the president, cabinet and congress. They may miss the president and cabinet, but the congress, if in session, can be crippled. First strikes go also at the nuclear facilities in the States. Spetsnaz, the Russian special forces, specialize in taking out enemy nuclear installations, disinformation and other special ops.
The Uniteed States under Obama, will not be prepared for this. The Anointed One thinks his shrewdness and smile, backed up by his clenched fists (have you noticed those - he clenches them often) will see him through diplomatic encounters.
Anyway, just some thoughts for you all to chew on. I gotta get back to the business at hand here, which will take me away from the computer.
72 - Hope and Change?
Ruby...thanks
73 - Brunelleschi
The messiah will step in and stop it, the dead will be raised, and we will live happy forever.
It is written.
We got the messiah. We have nothing to worry about.
:)
74 - Cindy D
A real Communist society is an Anarchist society.
75 - Cindy D
So far, I think it looks the same.