You know, I'd like to find it in me somewhere to repeat the politically correct refrains about our Muslim friends, but the "Religion of Peace" is at it again.
A gang rape victim from Saudi Arabia is facing six months in jail and 200 lashes for appealing her initial sentence of 90 lashes. Read that last sentence again. I had to when I read the BBC story about this case. A woman who was gang raped 14 times is facing six months in jail and 200 lashes because "justice" officials in Saudi Arabia feel the victim tried influencing the judicial process in the media.
The victim of this hideous crime was sentenced to the first 90 lashes for breaking Saudi Arabia's segregation of the sexes law. At the time of attack she was in a car with a man she is not related to and was then subjected to the most brutal experience imaginable. Instead of getting justice, sympathy, and support she faces a flogging.
"My client is the victim of this abhorrent crime. I believe her sentence contravenes the Islamic Sharia law and violates the pertinent international conventions," said the victim's lawyer, Abdel Rahman al-Lahem.
That's where the religious angle comes in. Saudi Arabia supposedly runs its nation in accordance with Islamic law.
You know what? I'm ready to be a politically incorrect elitist here! We're being told by talking heads and demagogues that all cultures and religions are equally good and valid and have their own truths and values. That's wrong. It's wrong! I'm not willing to concede that. I recognize the world is a complicated place and what I don't understand about it could fill every library in every country of the world. I don't claim to have any particular expertise in diplomacy, law, religion, or politics. The good news is you don't need that kind of expertise to see how wrong this is. There are occasions where there is right and wrong, good and evil, and there is no in between. The Saudi judicial system and the human debris that perpetrated the vile attack on this woman are wrong and evil. Any religion or culture that condones this belongs on the scrapheap. You cannot think this is okay and be a good person; there is no gray area. It's a good thing I'm not president of the United States. I do believe I'd launch a nuclear attack over something like this!
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Savitha
I completely agree with everything you have written about this case .
When I watched the news flash on a channel last night I thought it was a typing error on part of the channel . I thought it was the sentence for the rapists and it was too less for the inhuman crime perpetrated.
It's a cruel and barbaric sentence on the woman. In comparision now the judge seems worse than the rapists.
2 - malkbean
This is what conservatives have been trying to tell liberals. What is beyond believe is that it is taking so long for liberals to recognize the evil and the threat of their intention to impose such madness on the world. This insanity must be fought in every corner of the planet. Any religion or culture that requires total, thoughtless and unquestioning submission is doomed to plunge to these depths.
3 - emma wood
Is this abhorrent? Of course it is. Is Saudi Arabian Sharia Law abhorrent? Of course it is. But it seems unfair to blame all Muslims for this - it's a bit like blaming all Christians for the right wing nuts who bomb abortion clinics or the Westboro Baptist church. I am totally opposed to ANY fundamentalist religion because they are all anti woman and indeed anti human. But I do know many muslims who wouldn't condone this kind of thing, so let's not throw the baby out with bath water and give an excuse to racists for their behaviour. Fundamentalist Islam = Bad. Moderate Islam = people exercising their religious beliefs which they have a right to do - even if I don't agree with them which I don't
4 - Baritone
This has nothing to do with conservatives and liberals. Don't make it something it's not. I'm as liberal as they come, but I have long been aware of how hideous these laws and traditions are. They are not only found in the Islamic tradition, but similar horrific treatment of women exists with Hindus and Sikhs among others.
My understanding and revulsion are no less owing to my political leanings. All things considered, this woman's proposed punishment may well be tantamount to a death sentence. I don't know what the nature of the "lashes" will be, but few people would survive 200 of them.
I am at a total loss as to how Muslims can, in this day and age, rationalize such traditions. Is there anywhere in the Koran admonishing people to "judge not, lest ye be judged?" I'm not a Christian, and I have a number of issues with all religions, but those that maintain such cruel medieval customs are beyond understanding.
Josh - a nuclear (or nucular if you're a republican) attack might be a bit over the top. But it is nevertheless sad that our government is pretty much in bed with the Saudis who are at the forefront in maintaining the hideous Sharia law.
B-tone
5 - Baritone
Emma,
The main difference though, between abortion clinc bombers and radical muslims is that the latter run entire countries and enforce sharia law on their entire population. I know a few muslims myself, and, as far as I know, they are not supportive of the draconian sharia laws. Nevertheless, the radical movement amongst muslims is strong and growing. All muslims must accept some responsibility for the path down which their religion is being taken.
B-tone
6 - Diana Hartman
the entirety of those who subscribe to religion are to blame for this and for any crime and/or punishment that stems from religious law or belief because the world tolerates religion and what it does...
the same people who punished the rapists (and the raped) can't explain why rapists even exist or why the idea of rape occurs to a person (nor can any religion in the world explain this) without skirting the issue of their god being a major dick...
this is not about tolerating muslim law or religion...this is about tolerating religion at all, and specifically the ego-maniacal dickheads that perpetrate the "culture" and "beliefs" of their dickheaded gods...
7 - Baritone
Come on Diana, say what you really think.
Diana, I must say, I agree with you 100%. Religion may not be the root of all evil (my apologies to money,) but it must take the heat for a great deal of humanity's pain and suffering. We both seem to consider god, any god, to be worthy of our nether regions - I stated that god is an asshole in a comment on another thread a few weeks ago. Perhaps that is the flip side of the same coin, as it were. Some were aghast that I would say such a thing, but that's how I felt at the time. It still works for me.
Of course, I don't believe god is an asshole, largely because I don't believe god is.
I've been asked why I'm angry at god. I reply that I'm not. I simply don't believe in god. Any anger I have is aimed at the charleton purveyors of religious crap who are in it either for profit and/or as an ego trip. Oh, to live in a rational world. As I am verging on "old fartdom" I will likely never see that day. Someday maybe - at least if the godsters don't blow us all to bits in their zeal to gain "paradise points" with their respective lords.
B-tone
8 - Dr Dreadful
This is what conservatives have been trying to tell liberals. What is beyond believe is that it is taking so long for liberals to recognize the evil and the threat of their intention to impose such madness on the world.
You're right to call this nonsense out, Baritone. But I do have to wonder... In my recollection of the West's dealings with Saudi Arabia over the last twenty years or so, is it the conservatives or the liberals who've been more sympathetic to that regime?
Thought so.
I'm not given to personal attacks on this site, but in regard to Mr Malkbean there, I'm tempted to say: what a piece of #@$%.
9 - Dave Nalle
The main difference though, between abortion clinc bombers and radical muslims is that the latter run entire countries and enforce sharia law on their entire population.
That's merely the difference between having political power and not having political power. The abortion clinic bombers would LIKE to have the political power to impose their version of Sharia law if given half a chance.
Dave
10 - Clavos
"Okay, I don't want these thugs executed, but I'm thinking we can find something appropriate somewhere between the gallows and what they got."
I'm thinking surgical removal of their genitalia (without anesthesia, of course) would be very appropriate.
11 - Dr Dreadful
Wonder how they would taste with some fava beans and a nice Chianti?
f-f-f-f-f-f-f-......!
12 - Clavos
Eeewwww!!
13 - Baritone
Dave,
True, but it is that difference, and a large one it is, which makes the radical muslims a much greater force with which to contend than any abortion clinic bombers. As I have repeatedly noted, I am very wary of christian fundamentalists and their efforts toward an American theocracy. The abortion clinic bombers and the like are to some degree a product of that mindset.
But again, it is as if the abortion clinic bombers had been given carte blanche in Saudi Arabia and a # of other predominantly muslim countries, or I should say countries where the government and islam are essentially indistinguishable.
Can you imagine what would happen to a group of women in SA if they attacked a man in similar fashion? They likely would be stoned to near death, and then beheaded - probably at a local soccer stadium filled to capacity and on live TV for all to see with vendors hawking falafel in the stands. (Often made with fava beans, by the way.)
B-tone
14 - Baritone
It shold also be noted that the Bush family, among many other former and current members of the present administration have had significant business dealings - essentially partnerships - with the ruling Saudi family. Could that be a conflict of interest?
B-tone
15 - Gabacho
The monsters who are perpetrating this horrible inhuman act of cruelty are of the same ilk as the nazi death camp guards were. They must be stopped!!! This cannot be allowed to happen!! I am willing to do my part up to the point of personally invading Saudi Arabia to stop it! And this country is an ALLY of the U.S. (supposedly the benevolent big brother/policeman of the world)???????? What was all that rot about how Iraq was invaded to remove a brutal dictator. Almost any other brutality pales in comparison to this monstrosity.
16 - Baritone
Keep in mind that sharia law is nothing new. It is nearly as old as islam itself. SA is not alone in its adherence to these laws and traditions. Also, as I said above hindus, sikhs and others are very poor, some as bad or worse in their treatment of women. Should we invade all these places? This is something that invasions and war will not solve. How many of the women who would be the object of salvation would perish in the ensuing battles? How many of their families - their children, and yes, their abusive husbands would be decimated?
As tragic as the particular situation described above in SA is, such cultural change cannot be ramrodded down these people's throats. Sadly, tragically, this isn't going to go away anytime soon.
B-tone
17 - A. Hathaway
This punishment is a death sentence. Medically speaking, most individuals cannot survive past 40 lashes regardless of the instrument used. Internal injuries, as well as external bleeding will end her life before the 200th lash is administered. Six months in jail won't matter if they administer the lashes first. It wouldn't surprise me if the barbaric members who decided, participate, or support this punishment would continue to flog a dead body. Even if they are our Muslim brothers and sisters, you can still be disgusted with family.
18 - Baritone
One thing that makes all this even more difficult to absorb for me at least, is that this is simply business as usual. This is not an isolated case. These decisions are made dispassionately and routinely. The jurists in fact likely will NOT take part in administering the punishment. It's just another day at the office for them.
Consider what day to day life is like for many women existing in the grip of these cultures. Certainly, most do not wind up being jailed or flogged. But more often than not total submission to men is demanded in most households. As these are age old traditions, most women don't question it. It's just the way things are and have been. There has been some enlightenment in recent years and there are most certainly a few rebels, but they rebel at great risk.
B-tone
19 - El Bicho
Good piece, Josh. Glad to see some light be shown on this ugliness. Too bad malkbean had to spill his ignorance on the thread, but that's what makes America great, right?
It's the liberals who have been fighting for equal rights for women, and along with the libertarians who have been fighting to separate church and state. The traditional conservatives didn't appear to care about Islam until after 9/11.
It would be nice if this country actually believed in human rights for all, but our actions speak louder than our words, and then we wonder why so many hate this country.
20 - moonraven
The US government supports the Saudis--and that is what allows them to boldly commit these injustices.
The US receives in exchange: Cheaper oil for YOUR cars and a promise from Abdullah NOT to allow OPEC to switch to invoicing in Euros.
YOUR dollar hovers just above being flushed thanks to YOUR supporting these kinds of acts.
Look in the mirror, gringo hypocrits.
21 - handyguy
The alliance between the US and the Saudis is one of convenience, not mutual respect, and it is often fraught with tension - usually not publicized. But the State Dept did criticize this court ruling openly on Monday, prompting Saudi justice officials to defend the decision as proper - and to blame the defense lawyer for illegally publicizing the case.
The relationship between the Saudi government and the Wahhabist religious leaders is also complicated. Each group is beholden to the other to obtain and hold on to their power. That doesn't mean that they love each other or that they are one and the same group. Human Rights Watch has called on King Abdullah to pardon the woman, but that would cause an uproar among the religious officials.
22 - moonraven
The only reason it is "fraught" with tension is the rule to defend one's Muslim brother above all else.
I spend enough time as a consultant in the Middle East to know of what I speak.
23 - Josh
The only villainy that matters to me in this situation is the rape of this woman and the cultural/religious/legal system that says it's okay to beat a woman 200 times and imprison her after she's been gangraped.
Obviously there are a lot of subplots that run through this but I couldn't care less about Republicans, Democrats, liberals, conservatives, abortionists, Christians, Jews, Hindus, or any of the like.
This woman is being punished after being raped and in a sense is being punished for being raped. All the other rhetoric rings really hollow after that horrid fact is digested.
24 - Martin Lav
None of our business I say. Let the Saudi's follow whatever law they see fit.
I mean we don't meddle with Mexico even when they harbor cop killers in their own country.
25 - moonraven
I am afraid I have to actually agree with Martin on this one.
Josh, you get all hot and bothered about this case without even batting one of your baby blue eyes about all the rapes and murders that YOUR army and mercenaries have committed in Iraq--and are still committing daily.
I say you are a hypocrit.