Information Is Power and Power Will Be Abused: Video Surveillance and the 4th Amendment - Comments Page 2

Information is power. As our society generates more and more information, can we trust our leaders with the power it gives them?

A couple of weeks ago they put in a stoplight where our street meets the new highway that goes by our neighborhood. No one asked our neighborhood association. No one felt the need to poll the population. It certainly wasn't put to a vote or even brought up at a planning association meeting. Just as a matter of course that new stoplight included a set of video cameras covering all approaches to the intersection.…
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Article comments

  • 26 - Silver Surfer

    Oct 02, 2007 at 12:56 pm

    Off to Thailand in the morning. Can't sleep. It's a long flight - 9 hours - so I kind of hope if I stay awake, I'll zonk out on the plane.

    Although with my wife and youngest daughter on board and both very well schooled in the fine feminine art of speaking underwater with a loaf of bread in your mouth, there's probably not much hope.

  • 27 - Dr Dreadful

    Oct 02, 2007 at 2:25 pm

    Coupla suggestions, Stan:

    1. Noise-cancelling headphones.
    2. Nyquil.
    3. Slip the purser a twenty on the way down the jetway and see if he/she can't bump you up to first.

    Hope you have a great holiday.

  • 28 - Franco

    Oct 02, 2007 at 2:37 pm

    The open fields doctrine is a U.S. legal doctrine created judicially for purposes of evaluating claims of an unreasonable search by the government in violation of the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution, which states:

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    The open fields doctrine was first articulated by the U.S. Supreme Court in Hester v. United States[1], which stated that “the special protection accorded by the Fourth Amendment to the people in their ‘persons, houses, papers, and effects,’ is not extended to the open fields."[2] This opinion appears to be decided on the basis that "open fields are not a "constitutionally protected area" because they cannot be construed as "persons, houses, papers, [or] effects."

    Wikipedia Open fields doctrine

  • 29 - Franco

    Oct 02, 2007 at 2:48 pm

    Curtilage is a legal term describing the enclosed area of land around a dwelling. It is distinct from the dwelling by virtue of lacking a roof, but distinct from the area outside the enclosure in that it is enclosed within a wall or barrier of some sort.

    It is typically treated as being legally coupled with the dwelling it surrounds despite the fact that it might commonly be considered "outdoors".

    Wikipedia Curtilage


  • 30 - Franco

    Oct 02, 2007 at 2:51 pm

    Castle Doctrine (also known as a Castle Law or a Defense of Habitation Law) is an American legal concept derived from English Common Law, which designates one's place of residence (or, in some states, any place legally occupied, such as one's car or place of work) as a place in which one enjoys protection from illegal trespassing and violent attack. It then goes on to give a person the legal right to use deadly force to defend that place (his/her "castle"), and/or any other innocent persons legally inside it, from violent attack or an intrusion which may lead to violent attack. Within the legal paradigm, therefore, it functions as a type of justifiable homicide.

    Castle Doctrines are legislated by state, and not all states have a Castle Doctrine.

    Wikipedia Castle Doctrine

  • 31 - Franco

    Oct 02, 2007 at 3:23 pm

    California v. Ciraolo, 476 U.S. 206 (1986), was a case decided by the United States Supreme Court, in which it ruled that warrantless aerial observation of a man's backyard did not violate the Fourth Amendment to the United States Constitution.

    Wikipedia California v. Ciraolo

  • 32 - Jesse

    Oct 02, 2007 at 5:46 pm

    Interesting... that last one strikes a cord with me. Invasion of private space, ordered by local police for a trivial crime... wouldn't be so bad if the Burger court had decided to actually fulfill its "checks and balances" responsibility, as it did with the Nixon surveillance.

  • 33 - gonzo marx

    Oct 02, 2007 at 5:50 pm

    "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated..."

    in their persons...is a key bit here..it ain't just about yer House..it's about yer own Person and your "effects"

    beat 'em at their game...wear a Masque

    nuff said...

    Excelsior?

  • 34 - Dave Nalle

    Oct 02, 2007 at 6:08 pm

    Gonzo, do you know how fast you'd be surrounded and shot or tased if the surveillance network picked you up just walking around in a mask?

    As for the past history of wrongheaded decisions provided by the courts, they just go to prove that courts can be wrong. They also don't dispel the protection that individuals have not to be under direct surveillance without cause which the court has upheld. Clearly there's an inconsistency in how the 4th is being applied, and IMO we ought to err on the side of more rights for citizens rather than less.

    Dave

  • 35 - gonzo marx

    Oct 02, 2007 at 6:12 pm

    i welcome the tasing, and the lawsuit that follows...no need to shoot me, i know the routine and will comply

    my point is that if it gets onerous...EVERYONE will wear hats/masks as a mark of privacy/civil disobedience

    could be a good ground floor business, imo

    "Clearly there's an inconsistency in how the 4th is being applied, and IMO we ought to err on the side of more rights for citizens rather than less."

    Quoted for Truth

    Excelsior?

  • 36 - Franco

    Oct 02, 2007 at 10:48 pm

    "i welcome the tasing, and the lawsuit that follows...no need to shoot me, i know the routine and will comply

    LOL

  • 37 - Franco

    Oct 02, 2007 at 11:03 pm

    #34 â€" Dave Nalle

    "Clearly there's an inconsistency in how the 4th is being applied"

    I noticed this too. This is the kind of gray area shit that can make defending yourself in court a bit of a gamble and also very expensive.

  • 38 - gonzo marx

    Oct 02, 2007 at 11:31 pm

    glad ya got a Laugh, Franco

    if ya ever met me, ya might Understand it a bit better

    Excelsior?

  • 39 - Vulpes

    Oct 03, 2007 at 1:56 pm

    Why fear the government? Shouldn't they fear us?

  • 40 - Cindy D

    Oct 03, 2007 at 1:57 pm

    "Meantime, the real villains are finding ways of getting round the system as they always have."

    Yeah, they usually start doing this as soon as they're elected.

  • 41 - moonraven

    Oct 03, 2007 at 2:01 pm

    Nalle: I never accused you of being an elitist in a gated community.

    That was probably something youo or one of your clones accused ME of.

    I know you live in a trailer.

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