• Prime Minister Gordon Brown is wasting no time in undoing many Blair-era policies. Brown intends to reclassify cannabis as a Class B drug, ruled out the construction of a supercasino in Manchester, promises to review 24-hour drinking laws with the possible intent of overturning them, and pledges to tighten border control and kick out 4,000 foreign criminals. So far, so very good. But we can only hope that action, not mere words, will be Brown's biggest policy. We always had plenty of words under Blair and his Labour cohorts, but never much action.
• You need no better example of how Britain kowtows to Islam and its fanatical practitioners than this recent story: al Qaeda mastermind Dhiren Barot was attacked by other inmates with boiling water in Frankland Prison, in the northeast of England. The result? He spent five days recuperating in hospital and received round-the-clock police protection while there. Isn't that heartwarming? We allow terrorists constant police protection while hard-working people living in rough areas receive none. If this country had any fortitude at all, we'd have thrown Barot into solitary confinement for five days and let him recuperate there — and if he died, he died. But no, we waste money and medical resources on this vile piece of crap. No wonder al Qaeda sees the West as weak and vulnerable to attack. I'd never thought I'd have reson to say something like this but kudos to the prisoners of Frankland Prison and jeers to the police and the Government. It's slightly worrying that jailbirds have a better idea how to deal with terrorists than the people in power.
• I was wrong about Shambo, the sacred bull cow of the Skanda Vale Temple in Wales. Although a High Court judge originally granted a reprieve to Shambo, another judge overturned the decision and the slaughter notice was re-instated. The judge who reinstated the decision to kill the bull said it was justified even though Shambo's slaughter would be considered by the community as a sacrilegious act and "a very grave and serious interference with their religious rights." After all, Shambo was so wildly contagious that, as the Temple notes on its website, "[n]one of the officials took any meaningful biosecurity measures. No gloves were worn, no disinfectant was used when entering or leaving the pen and a trail of straw was left littering the ground outside Shambo's pen." The real loser, of course, is not Shambo, but the Temple and the Hindu Community which worships there. The Temple also wrote on their page: "The Welsh Assembly Government have committed the most violent and ignorant act of sacrilege against our Religion and desecration of our Temple in destroying an innocent and sacred life. What a sad day to see our government behaving with such gross ignorance." While some British police concerned themselves with the fate of boiled jihadic madman, others dragged away Hindu worshippers forming a human chain around Shambo's pen. What a country!
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Dave Nalle
Brown intends to reclassify cannabis as a Class B drug, ruled out the construction of a supercasino in Manchester, promises to review 24-hour drinking laws with the possible intent of overturning them
So you're saying that Brown restricting the freedoms of native British citizens is a good thing? Might as well invite al Qaeda in to take over.
And your second item is pretty reprehensible too. Is justice meted out by courts or by criminals? You don't seem to care which. Perhaps you should make it legal to just murder anyone who looks foreign if you see them on the street. That's the kind of mob justice you're cheering for.
Dave
2 - STM
Yeah, I agree with Dave, especially on the second bit. I'm not sure more gambling and 24-hour drinking are that great a thing, however. But on the prisoner issue, perhaps Mark's been tokin' on too much of that cannabis Brown wants to declare a Class B drug.
Now, here's the absurdity of the reasoning: you are in effect arguing for one right for one group of people (the right to protection during incarceration), and another for another group (well, no rights).
The punishment in this case is deprivation of liberty, which has been decided by a judge and jury, not death, scarring or serious injury by scalding (what's next: hot oil). You know, too, that prisoners in Britain can seek compensation from the Government for injuries received in jail and often get it.
If you are going to deny medical treatment and state protection to the terrorist, you have to deny it to all the light-skinned ordinary crims as well, Mark.
Like I keep saying, the one good thing about Britain is that ALL people really do have rights, and one of those rights, no matter what anyone thinks of you, is the right not to be vilified.
Just a tip, and take it or leave it: You probably should be careful how you phrase some of this stuff, too, as you can't rely on 1st amendment rights over there. The police recently cracked down on two neo-nazi holocaust deniers on the web, judging that their rights to free speech were less important than the rights of those who were being vilified. It is still being dragged through the courts.
It's OK to have a point of view, but publicly suggesting that a scalded prisoner should be denied treatment because of his over-the-top religious beliefs might just have the potential to land you in, um, hot water ...
3 - gonzo marx
the first two comments say it all, pretty much
but allow yer gonzo to add this...
every time Manning types, the baby Jesus cries,
true story
Excelsior?
4 - STM
MEM: "What a country!"
Mark, BTW, as I know you're seriously unhappy there, I've phoned a couple of mates in London, and they've kindly offered to have a whip-around at the Punch and Judy next Friday night in the hope they can raise just enough to buy you a one-way ticket back to Boston.
5 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
Gonzo, Stan and Dave,
Enjoy Britain's "Marquis of Queensbury" rules for prisoners while you can, gents. But don't jut your jaws out too far when you lead with your chins. Your Wahhabi enemies won't land a sucker punch there. They'll grab your throats and slit them - just like they did to Daniel Pearl...
6 - gonzo marx
Ruvy..sorry, i refuse to sink to the level of an animal, i'm a free Man
and how we treat our Foe says much about our Character, and what we hold dear
just because a sociopathic vermin kills with no remorse, this does not give a civilized person leave to behave as the animal has, does it?
for all your pretensions to Holy high mindedness, much of your writings prove you are exactly the same as those you profess to hate so much
and this worries me, for you...
some fiend comes at me or mine, i defend myself according to my Principles...but one the Foe is disabled/incarcerated/under control...one does NOT do further harm
if we cannot be better than what we fight, then the Conflict is only about insignificant minutia
to me, and to our System of Law, this is self evident
to any sane Human, it should also be just as self evident...if it is not, than might i suggest said person is missing some crucial part of their Humanity... the same bit those criminals are missing
Excelsior?
7 - RJ
Great post, MEM.
Multiculturalism - Had enough?
8 - gonzo marx
"Multiculturalism - Had enough?"
so, yer saying it should all be white, anglo-saxon protestants?
bet you like miracle whip on wonder bread sammiches too
/disappointed
Excelsior?
9 - RJ
"how we treat our Foe says much about our Character, and what we hold dear"
Sooo...in WWII, the "Greatest Generation" (under the leadership of liberal Democrat FDR) were a bunch of murderous scum for nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki, fire-bombing Dresden, and taking almost no prisoners on the Japanese-held Pacific islands?
(Oh, and internment camps for tens of thousands of Japanese on the Left Coast?)
In WWII, we were the good guys. And we used brutal measures in that war. And, guess what? We won.
In the War On Terror, we are the good guys. And we mostly play fuckin' footsie with the enemy. And, guess what? We're probably gonna lose (if we continue to fight it under the ACLU's rules).
If hot water being thrown on an al-Qaeda terrorist is a bad thing, then being bad is go-o-od.
10 - RJ
"this does not give a civilized person leave to behave as the animal has, does it?"
Three things:
1) Humans are animals.
2) No animal except the human animal acts with the sort of cruelty and murderousness that the human animal is capable of.
3) If we cede to our enemies the ability to "fight dirty," there is no doubt that we will lose this war.
The terrorists are animals, yes. But so are we, by definition. And if their fighting/survival instinct is stronger than ours, they will win. It is literally not possible to fight a "humanitarian war." The only thing that matters once a nation (or a civilization) has decided to fight a war is victory. "Playing nice" with guns and tanks isn't a serious, or even a real, option.
11 - Dr Dreadful
RJ - Britain has been a multicultural society at least since the Celts arrived and - archaeological evidence suggests - even long before that. We'll be fine, thank you.
Stan - I suspect your word of caution to Mark about shooting his mouth off was somewhat tongue in cheek. However, in the event that he might not see it that way... Despite the lack of a written Bill of Rights, the boys from Special Branch won't be thumping on his door any time soon. English law (I'm not sure about the Scots, they can be deadly bastards sometimes) is quite happy to let moronic mouth-shooting take its course, and is usually smart enough to differentiate it from real hate speech.
12 - gonzo marx
RJ- did we torture prisoners?
try looking at the entire comment, do i not make a distinction between what is done in defense and what you do to a helpless prisoner?
you appear to have missed that
you mention the internment camps, again, we go tossing boiling water on em?...or waterboarding?
again, if you are willing to sink to the level of yoru Enemy, that what defines the difference?
how do you tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys" if both act the same?
Excelsior?
13 - STM
RJ, this prisoner was found guilty of a criminal offence in a court of law and by a jury after a swift and fair trial, and sentenced by a judge according to rule of law. He is therefore entitled to the same protections as all other crims in British jails - if he isn't, then rule of law begins to collapse, which is exactly what the other mob wants.
And for Gonzo: I fair dinkum sometimes wonder what the fu.k MEM's on about, or even whether he actually knows himself. While he probably does want the place to be more WASPish or WACish ... the truth is, despite Britain's grudging, pretentious nod towards multi-culturalism because of the considerable baggage of post-colonial guilt, you still won't find a higher WASPS/WACS-to-others ratio anywhere on this planet (apart from Scandinavia and Australia).
Blue eyes, fair skin and a near fatal attraction to both tea and warm beer are still very much the norm in Albion and its surrounds. Anyone who's lived there and says otherwise is talkin' through their arse.
14 - gonzo marx
fucking hell, RJ...try thinking in more than a soundbyte and putting it all in one comment?
on the "animals" part
sorry, for the slow of mind, allow me to clarify..when i said "animals" i meant sociopathic criminals...when i say "Men" i mean civilized human beings with a code of Ethics
i'll try and keep it simple for your RJ
Excelsior?
15 - STM
Doc, there's been a case recently that is seen as a test case, with two blokes arrested and charged for carrying on over the internet. True, Special Branch won't likely be knocking on Mark's door anytime soon, but you can bet they ARE watching him :) Dah, duh-dah, duh-dah ...
16 - RJ
"so, yer saying it should all be white, anglo-saxon protestants?"
Do you have some sort of problem with White Anglo-Saxon Protestants?
Because that's who made up 95% of the UK (one of the richest and most powerful nations in the world) until recently. And, until very recently, the UK didn't have unassimilated ethnic groups whining about the slaughter of a diseased cow, or hundreds of thousands of unassimilated Islamic radicals (some of whom are terrorists) living in their midst.
Tell me: Where are your demands that Iran and Saudi Arabia allow mass immigration of English-speaking Christians into their country? English-speaking Christians who want to build countless Christian churches and live off SA's welfare system, while having absolutely no interest in assimilating into the SA culture?
Why is mass immigration always a one-way street?
17 - gonzo marx
lol..you keep trying to put words into my mouth in order to make me look bad, still trying to get your junior Limbaugh card?
i've got nothing against ANY culture, i'm an American..we have no "culture"...we pick and choose, add and subtract what we like on an individual basis
but it's funny the way you put it, where do you draw the line...are Catholics ok? how about those third generation Hindus who are as English as anyone but not CoE?
you should really think this shit through before typing
Excelsior?
18 - RJ
"how do you tell the "good guys" from the "bad guys" if both act the same?"
Uh, because "we" are us and "they" are them.
I guess the old saying is true: "A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel."
19 - RJ
RJ - did we torture prisoners?
For the most part (at least in the Pacific), we didn't bother to take them.
you mention the internment camps, again, we go tossing boiling water on em?...or waterboarding?
No, because they weren't convicted (or even really suspected) terrorists.
And anyway, waterboarding is 100% non-fatal. Unlike a beheading.
20 - Ruvy in Jerusalem
I'd never tell you to sink to the level of an animal, Gonzo. I know how you value your Principles. I'm just warning you not to lead too far with the chin in doing so.
It strikes me that on occasion the very barbaric justice meted out by prisoners is more fitting than the weasel words of the lawyers who get them in prison.
They seem to recognize an enemy - and are determined to down him. That's a vicious way to play the game. But the Wahhabi have been more vicious.
21 - STM
Yeah, my memory of Britain as a schoolboy is that it was multicultural even then. Not much has changed. Try looking up the ratio of what to whom and you'll find it's still pretty close to what's it's been the start of post-colonial immigration.
Plus, there are plenty of blacks and asians (in the UK, that means from the Indian sub-continent) who were born in the UK, some of them British going back three or four or more generations, and who are as English as Jason Robinson (look him up on google).
This whole thing is an absolute load of old bollocks. My tip for MEM is to go back to the US, where we know there are no racial/multicultural tensions, am I right?
22 - RJ
Recent poll of British Muslims:
YouGov sought to gauge the character of the Muslim community's response to the events of July 7. As the figures in the chart show, 88 per cent of British Muslims clearly have no intention of trying to justify the bus and Tube murders.
However, six per cent insist that the bombings were, on the contrary, fully justified.
Six per cent may seem a small proportion but in absolute numbers it amounts to about 100,000 individuals who, if not prepared to carry out terrorist acts, are ready to support those who do.
Moreover, the proportion of YouGov's respondents who, while not condoning the London attacks, have some sympathy with the feelings and motives of those who carried them out is considerably larger - 24 per cent.
A substantial majority, 56 per cent, say that, whether or not they sympathise with the bombers, they can at least understand why some people might want to behave in this way.
Multiculturalism - Had enough?
23 - gonzo marx
Ruvy - it appears to slip some minds that not only am i ex-military, but have been a practicing martial artist for 38 years
i'm all for defending oneself..as an individual, or a nation, it's all in how it's done
RJ - "I guess the old saying is true: "A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel.""
i would dearly enjoy showing you just how wrong you are in your misconception...best of three on the mat, or until you learn your lesson...which ever you would enjoy more...i'll even let you use a baseball bat and wear a motorcycle helmet...but you will have to sign a waiver
afterwards you can use the sip and puff to say how much this "liberal" doesn't defend himself
you're just being silly now, and not even amusing
Excelsior?
24 - RJ
Ethnicity in Great Britain:
For most of the last millennium the lands now constituting the United Kingdom were largely inhabited by indigenous peoples. Since World War Two substantial immigration from the New Commonwealth and beyond has transformed the ethnic landscape so that the United Kingdom now plays host to an ethnically diverse population. Alongside the indigenous population, descended from peoples present prior to the Twelfth century, there are significant numbers of non-indigenous Whites, Blacks, South Asians, Orientals and other groups together with a growing mixed race population.
...
The period from 1948 has seen a dramatic change in the ethnic make-up of the United Kingdom. Non-Whites have grown from tens of thousands in 1951 to 4,600,000 in 2001. The total number of ethnic minorities (including whites from ethnic minority groups) in 2001 was 6,751,689.
The indigenous population is in numerical decline, falling by 100,000 between 2001-2003, whereas the non-indigenous population grew by an estimated 500,000. Since 2003 this pattern of alternate decline and growth will have accelerated. The process seems likely to continue, leading to the eventual replacement of the indigenous population with the newer groups.
...
In 2005 the Commission for Racial Equality published a report entitled Citizenship and Belonging : What is Britishness?, to examine the way in which British people of different ethnic backgrounds thought about Britishness. The Commission reported that:
"As White people involved in the study were asked to talk about Britishness, many immediately and spontaneously changed the topic of discussion slightly talking instead about a perceived decline in Britishness. This happened in all focus groups with White people. They attributed the decline to four main causes: the arrival of large numbers of migrants; the ‘unfair’ claims made by people from ethnic minorities on the welfare state; the rise in moral pluralism; and the failure to manage ethnic minority groups properly, due to what participants called political correctness."
And that: "Most White participants were distressed by this perceived decline in Britishness. They felt victimized and frustrated and many anticipated that social unrest would become inevitable."
Yeah, you're right. I'm crazy.
25 - RJ
i would dearly enjoy showing you just how wrong you are in your misconception...best of three on the mat, or until you learn your lesson...which ever you would enjoy more...i'll even let you use a baseball bat and wear a motorcycle helmet...but you will have to sign a waiver
afterwards you can use the sip and puff to say how much this "liberal" doesn't defend himself
Gonzo! You actually make my point for me! Thanks!!!
Let's say you, a "progressive-minded" Westerner, shows up for a "fair and regulated fight" with an Islamic extremist. You are a better wrestler than him, so because of your extreme sense of "fairness" you allow him to wear a helmet and bring a bat. Despite the advantages you have ceded to him, you are able to pin him. But, just as you are about to declare victory in this "fair" fight and shake his hand, he whips a scimitar out of his gym bag and beheads your lib-left ass for everyone to see.
Of course, you would have never even considered such a thing!
Sooo...who wins that fight, Gonzo? You tell me...