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From: Phillip Winn @ Center-Right'))
To: Eric Berlin @ Center-Left
Subject: Bill Bennett
Let's talk about Bill Bennett. He's in a lot of trouble right now for saying, "...it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could, if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down." People are calling for his head, and it seems to be unpopular to defend the man. After all, he's a "family values" man revealed to be a high-stakes gambler, and he defended that hypocrisy when it was exposed, rather than own up to it. Who wants to defend the racist hypocrite?
Still, I'll stick up for the guy, because it seems like most people aren't reading anything more than the sentence I've quoted, and are missing the entire point of the discussion. Alternatively, they're wanting to impose thought-crime, which is horrifying to me.
What do you think?
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From: Eric Berlin @ Center-Left'))
To: Phillip Winn @ Center-Right
My take is that it was an incredibly silly, inane thing to say and I'm sure Bennett wouldn't say it again (in public) if he had the chance. Very likely it was just a matter of an incredibly poor and impolitic choice of example: stop a segment of the population from reproducing, and the crime rate will drop. Well sure, but the same would be true for white people, residents of Topeka, Kansas, left-handed folk and on and on!
So that's one side. But I'm also sympathetic to those who see a pattern by this administration and its supporters. Is it a pattern of racism? I don't think so, but I could accept the argument of someone who might contend that some of our leaders — particularly those who consider themselves "moral leaders" — are not innately connected to the concerns and of those parts of society that are the neediest and most helpless.
Consider, as another example, Barbara Bush, mother of George W. Bush and former First Lady, on how the victims of Katrina are "making out real well" in Texas. Of course, I believe that everything in American society and public life is and should be viewed through the spectrum of the failures of Katrina.
A catastrophic result of a long standing pattern of neglect of our neediest and most vulnerable citizens?
I think it's a fair question to ask, but leave it to me on any topic and I'm sure to go Big Picture on you sooner or later!
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From: Phillip Winn @ Center-Right'))
To: Eric Berlin @ Center-Left
I agree that Bennett probably wishes he could take it back. But I also wonder if this is another example of over-reaction on the part of those who want to see a pattern of racism in an Administration where it doesn't exist, combined with simple ignorance.
Article comments
— go to most recent comments1 - Phillip Winn
Let the experiment begin!
2 - Eric Berlin
Let's get it on!
3 - Greg Smyth
Now, *that's* what I'm talking about!
Possibly the best thing I've read on BC, ever. Well written, reasoned, and much more like something from a *proper* newspaper, rather than a half-assed Blogosphere version.
Well done Phillip/Eric, long may they continue...
4 - Eric Berlin
Wow, thanks very much Greg!
5 - Bennett
Excellent!
There is far more to be gained by you two holding this debate, than by having just one of you post on a topic and then watch the comments spin out of control.
Thank you gentlemen! I enjoyed it, learned quite a bit, and didn't miss the partisan squabbling at all!
6 - Eric Berlin
And that coming from a Bennett!
Outstanding, thanks very much!
7 - clinton warner
The numbers of Americans who lived under segregation and still living are getting smaller. Being one,-am doing a book on the issues of race. Probable title--"Why do you keep bringing up the Race issue'----. Keep it up.---I smell some possible material in this blog. Let me know if you wish to be quoted. Am really happy that we had overactive,law making judges on the Supreme Court for the abolition of slavery. My grandfather was one.(slave)
8 - Eric Berlin
Supreme Court Justice Stephen Breyer talks about the importance of "active liberty" in looking at the cases before the Supreme Court. For example, the founders never could have imagined that there would be things like the Internet, satellite radio, etc. etc. to be dealt with.
And as George Carlin points out (among others), our founding fathers were slave owners who declared that all men are created equal!
So the importance of looking at the Constitution as a living, breathing document is paramount in my view.
I'm sure others disagree, but that's the sloppy joy of living in a democracy, isn't it?
9 - Baronius
"Am really happy that we had overactive,law making judges on the Supreme Court for the abolition of slavery."
We didn't. We had overactive Supreme Court justices who prevented the abolition of slavery, let by Chief Justice Taney. He wildly overstepped his authority in the Dred Scott desicion, but it's next to impossible to overturn a Supreme Court decision. It was only through constitutional amendment that we were able to end slavery.
Lincoln is often mocked for his Emancipation Proclamation freeing only the Confederates' slaves. In truth, the Commander-in-Chief only had the authority to free slaves in a war zone. He couldn't free the Yankee slaves.
Eric, beware of a living Constitution: it's what Taney used. Clinton: if you're going to write a book about the history of segregation, you should get to know the role the courts have played, for good and ill.
10 - DJRadiohead
If this ever catches on, Chris Matthews and a whole lot of other alleged journalists are out of a job.
11 - Lisa McKay
Excellent dialogue, guys (and a fine specimen of leading by example). I hope to see more!
12 - Eric Berlin
Excellent points, Baronius -- you're right on and I stand corrected.
Thanks DJR and Lisa!
13 - Lono
Sorry, I can't see defending Bennet on this. Dude has a series of books on virtues: has a virulent gamlbing problem and some supressed race issue.
so do most of the people I know. However, we aren't writing books on virtue, either.
fair?
14 - Baronius
Lono, can only good people write about virtue? How severe is Bennett's gambling problem? Is gambling immoral? Did Bennett ever write about gambling in his books about virtue? What evidence, other than Bennett calling eugenics morally reprehensible, do you have that he has a race problem?
15 - Eric Berlin
I was in the process of asking everyone to try and put Bennett's background aside when considering this issue... when I realize I made a central point about the fact that Bennett's moral certitude makes him all the more vulnerable to criticism!
And you know, it does. Just watching Hardball tonight and Chris Matthews said, "The higher they are, the harder they fall."
That said, I stand by the mixed feelings I expressed above!
16 - Dave Nalle
You can recognize virtue and realize that you don't entirely live up to it yourself and still admire it. Sometimes we promote what we strive for rather than what we've achieved, and that's admirable. My take on the Book of Virtues is a bit different, however. I see it as thinly veiled and very manipulative Christian propaganda, at least that's how the Saturday morning cartoon version came off when I used to watch it with my eldest when she was quite small. Very preachy stuff.
As for Bennett, having read his remarks and knowing something of his background as basically a right of center relatively moderate guy, I look with great suspicion on those who want to make this into a racial issue. The comment was unsubtle, but clearly not intended to be racist. If someone comes to it and reaches the conclusion that Bennett is a racist because of it, then that makes me immediately question their own judgement. They are either part of the campaign to smear Bennett and all conservatives as racist, or they are so blinded by their own assumptions that they can't see anything but what they expect to see in what he said. They're the same people who are calling Bill Cosby an Uncle Tom. I just can't take them very seriously.
Dave
17 - Eric Berlin
There was a Book of Virtues cartoon?
18 - Dave Nalle
Yes, and it sucked, as I suggested earlier. It's probably available on DVD. I will give it credit for including both virtuous pagan and christian stories and at least attempting to preserve some stories from Ovid and other Greek and Roman writers.
Dave
19 - DJRadiohead
But was there a Book of Virtues "card game such as Texas Hold Em" set? That's the real question.
PS - Apparently the name of the popular card game is a banned word. Phillip, Eric... ??? It killed my joke, man! The things we have to do to protect against spam.
20 - Phillip Winn
Sorry, DJ, but poke with an r appended is indeed a banned word. :-(
21 - Phillip Winn
Lono (#13), no I think your comment is roughly the antithesis of fair. A fair reading of Bennett wouldn't ascribe to him a suppressed race issue without more evidence than we've been given.
He's hypocritical on gambling, unquestionably. Does hypocrisy in one area of life immediately disqualify a person from holding opinions in any other area? These comments would be amazingly empty if that were true.
I'm a Christian homeschooler who wouldn't use Bennett's k12.com for anything, and don't like his "Book of Virtues" much either. His "Book of Heroes," however, is pretty good for my purposes. I happen to think that even people with gambling problems and a dose of hypocrisy can capably edit books.
22 - Dave Nalle
Use your southern drawl and call it 'Pokah, Suh".
dave
23 - Phillip Winn
I should also say that I've never heard the man's radio show, and can't comment on it.
24 - Maurice
You guys have won my heart. Very nice job of analysis on both sides. As a black man (with a white wife) I will be glad when race is no longer discussed. There will be a day when we will all refer to ourselves as people.
One last thought. I encounter more raised eyebrows from people looking at my oldest son (profoundly mentally and physically handicapped) than I do from people looking at my white wife.
25 - Phillip Winn
Maurice, do you live in a reasonably big city? In my experience, overt racism is generally a bigger problem in smaller towns than big cities.