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Immigration: Lawless Employers Pickpocket America - Comments Page 2
Article comments
26 - Jim Wynne
Richard:
I don't think there's a connection between SS cards (genuine or otherwise) and WC. If an illegal immigrant presents reasonably-executed fake identification in applying for a job, after he's hired he's treated as though his SS number is genuine. He gets insurance (if it's one of the benefits of the job) and is covered by the employer's WC insurance.
27 - Richard Brodie
Jim:
That make's sense. And I guess WC enforcement is pretty lax, as far as conducting gestapo-style raids to make sure all people working on the premises are properly covered.
But apart from the WC issue, I'm still wondering - if some illegal picks up a fake SS card in Tijauna that just happens to have my SS number on it, am I going to be pleasantly surprised with a higher than expected payout when I start collecting? Or is the SS Administation syfficently sophisticated to see that something is wrong with Juan Garcia using Richard Brodie's number?
28 - Jim Wynne
There is supposed to be name/number matching going on. The IRS does it now. Over the last few years a lot of women who used their maiden names in applying for SS cards thirty years ago were forced to re-register under married names, if that was how they were filing income tax returns.
About eight or nine years ago I found out (after applying for unemployment compensation) that wages were being reported by someone using my SS number. I notified the SSA, and their response was that they wouldn't do anything unless I could show that I had actually been harmed somehow. I contacted the employers where the person was listed as having worked (there were two) and was told by one that the person no longer worked there, and the other told me they wouldn't give me any information. After a time (a year or so), usage of the number seemed to have stopped, and the person apparently never used the number for anything else, such as applying for credit.
29 - Richard Brodie
About eight or nine years ago I found out (after applying for unemployment compensation) that wages were being reported by someone using my SS number. I notified the SSA, and their response was that they wouldn't do anything unless I could show that I had actually been harmed somehow.
Well, it would seem that not only were you not harmed, but that you were actually helped, by virtue of wage credits having been added to your account, which will result in you getting a higher SS payout when you retire! Congratulations on being one of the few lucky Americans (other than lawbreaking employers) able to get a small actual benefit from illegal immigration :)
Now why do you suppose that the INS doesn't try to get access to SS records so they could mine that data for multiple usages of a single number? Are we afraid that the ACLU would scream that illegals' "privacy" rights were being violated?
30 - Jim Wynne
INS doesn't have the bodies. They do the best they can with what they've got, I think. A few years ago, in the smallish SE Wisconsin city where I live, a meat packing plant was visited by the INS and lost ~500 employees in one day. There was no liability on the part of the employer, because all of the illegals had presented plausible documentation upon being hired, and none of the illegals were deported because the INS lacked the resources to get it done.
There's a relatively simple answer: require employers to verify SS numbers with the SSA, and give them a simple means of doing so. It wouldn't solve the problem, but it would take a considerable hunk out of it.
31 - Richard Brodie
There's a relatively simple answer: require employers to verify SS numbers with the SSA, and give them a simple means of doing so. It wouldn't solve the problem, but it would take a considerable hunk out of it.
There would be two cases:
1) the check resulted in two (or more) identical numbers - in which case ALL persons claiming that number would have to be investigated in order to determine which one was the American citizen;
2) the forgers got lucky and picked an unused number.
I don't know how sophisticated these forgers are. Do they forge a birth certificate to go along with the SS card, and then actually make an appearance at the SS office in Chula Vista so that the illegal who buys this bogus documentation from them really will appear completely legitimate?
32 - Jim Wynne
No; the check would be to see if the applicant's name matched the one registered to that SSN. Three possibilities: Yes, in which the applicant would pass; No, (the number is registered to a different name) in which case the applicant would not pass, the employer would keep the card and the applicant would be bear the burden of proving that it is his; and the third would be the number coming back as not registered to anyone, in which case the procedure for #2 would be followed.
33 - Heloise
I don't know who I hate more: the illegal immigrants (50 million if you count their children who should never have been granted automatic citizenship) or the blasted politicians who have milked dry the breasts of Lady Liberty in New York harbor to feed the millions who have come across our borders sans invitation (read save the businesses) by river, boat, truck and planes.
I guess I hate them both equally because one group are the takers-in-your face, and the other the givers-away gone amuk.
Heloise
34 - Dave Nalle
50 million illegals with the childred added in? That would require all of the illegal parents to be married and have 8 children. That seems just a little improbable.
Dave
35 - Nicholas Stix
Actually, not so, Dave. In January 2005, Justich and Ng estimated that we already had over 20 million illegals, and the average Mexican woman bears four children over the course of her life.
If eight million of the illegals are women, and due to staggered ages they averaged only three per (as opposed to the Mexican average of four per woman, lifetime), that would give 44 million. It ain’t 50 mil, but it ain’t far off either.
36 - Dave Nalle
Nicky, that math is still a bit off. 3x10 is 30 not 44. And I don't think anyone accepts the 20 million illegals figure except self-serving extremists.
Dave
37 - Nicholas Stix
Dave Nalle: Nicky, that math is still a bit off. 3x10 is 30 not 44. And I don't think anyone accepts the 20 million illegals figure except self-serving extremists.
Dave
Davey, the arithmetic is just fine; the problem is, you added wrong.
8 million illegal women +
(8 million illegal women X 3=)
24 million children +
12 million illegal men =
44 million
The "self-serving extremists" are two top Bear Stearns economists, Robert Justich and Betty Ng,
whom no one who knew what he was talking about would ever call "self-serving extremists."
38 - Bliffle
"Mexico has a zero tolerance policy towards illegal immigrants; is America any less of a nation, or less deserving of respect?"
Mexicos attitude towards illegal immigrants from the south (Guatemala, etc.) is quite severe. Mostly, they are preyed upon freely by bandits and rapists (this seems to be a particular favorite) without protection from the mexican government, or any interest by mexicans at large. If you think that illegals in the US are badly treated you would be shocked by what happens in Mexico (you remember Mexico, right? Where Pres. V Fox describes US border protection as 'shameful').
As for ANY kind of immigrant from the north, like US and Canada, one can never be sure about ones status. You may lose your property or business at any time if a Privileged Family casts a covetous eye on it. And you may be freely abused physically just to make a point.
39 - Mark Richard Adams
According to Wikipedia the birth rate in Mexico is 2.45 children born/woman. Quite high by comparison with most developed nations but not near 4.
Of course not all of the 20 million immigrants are from Mexico, many are Europeans who have overstayed their visas. The birth rate in most European countries is less than 2 children born/woman.
If all the other assumptions are correct (20m starting point, zero infant mortality), the number of children born to immigrants is probably in the range of 16-20m.
40 - Mark Richard Adams
BTW, has anyone else noticed the ad google served for this article:
41 - Bliffle
Nic: "When the supply of labor exceeds demand, wages fall. Econ 101."
Did you actually TAKE Econ101? Or is this your imagining of what must be in Econ101?
How about Econ102 and 103? Did you take those? Were you awake when the failings of Pop Econ WRT 'supply and demand' were discussed? Did you take Econ 201,202 and 203 where multivariate problems were explored with partial differential equations?
42 - Dave Nalle
Bliff, assuming you've taken econ 101 through infiinity, did any of those courses tell you that excess availability of labor didn't depress the wage scale?
Dave
43 - Mark Richard Adams
"did any of those courses tell you that excess availability of labor didn't depress the wage scale?
Workers are also consumers. Demand increases too.
44 - Dave Nalle
True, Richard. But the increase in demand only adds to the increase in the need for workers.
Dave
45 - Richard Brodie
Nalle: And I don't think anyone accepts the 20 million illegals figure except self-serving extremists.
Rather it is self-serving amnesty, open-borders, Hispanicization symps who accept the 12 million figure. Bush obviously wants the problem not to appear to be as bad as it is for political reasons. You want it not to appear as bad as it is because you'd like to see slave labor keep certain costs and prices low, and the future of America be damned.
ANY figure can only be based on a guess as to how many illegals are getting in completely undetected, and continuing to exist in the shadows, invisible to census takers and other government agencies. Nobody can know what the real number is. It could easily be 30 or 40 million.
The pitiful border control measures being proposed - very few more agents, incomplete wall, and national guard totally unimpowered to detain, let alone kick asses back into Mexico- will do nothing to diminish the numbers, as millions more are encouraged to flood in so they can take advantage of the coming amnesty.
So thanks to an abominably SEDITIOUS and TRAITORIOUS national legislature, and President, our country will continue to go down the drain into bona-fide Third-world status at an ever accelerating pace, so that the regime of one Vicente Fox can be relieved of its own self-created problems.